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#302 Jun 23 2013 at 8:47 PM Rating: Good
Dizmo wrote:
sandpark wrote:

Sounds like you are tired of rpgs in general. Almost every single quest in the offline FF or other offline rpgs are scripted, you level up, and you kill things over and over.


Pretty much... I guess it just feels like MMOs ought to have more complexity and depth than whacking mobs that inexplicably reappear outside town every few minutes now that it's 2013. :/ I find it hard to maintain my suspension of disbelief.


It's too hard to have that many people involved, online, and not have lag going off all over the place ******** people over. That's why things aren't overly complicated in MMO's.
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#303 Jun 23 2013 at 8:55 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Also a group from this forum, beat an instance w/o a healer..... The first time they even set foot into an ARR dungeon.... Yeah combat is not easy... Smiley: lol


Now now Ostia. It was the first dungeon available in the game, and we wiped about 10 times total before finally figuring out a strategy that was able to work. We also had 2 tanks, one with cure. We actually had to use an incredible amount of strategy, and even a fair amount of kiting just to beat it. We had to rest every other mob group, and the run, which normally takes 30 minutes, took us over an hour. Did I mention it was the first dungeon? There is absolutely no way a group would be able to do that in Copperbell without a healer.

I actually like the combat thus far. For instance, on my pug, if I want to actually maximize my DPS, I need to focus on my positioning for every attack. I need to be behind for some abilities, move to the side for some, decide when is most ideal to use my crit boost ability (a solo pull is a waste of a 60s CD), and even help out occasionally with off-tanking with featherfoot>haymaker when there are tons of mobs (first boss of Copperbell comes to mind). And this is all at level 18. I like what I've seen so far and am looking forward to seeing the progression at higher levels.


You can actually do all 3 of the first dungeons w/o a healer :) It has been stated in the official beta forums that you can even do manor w/o a healer... And no you do not need to focus on positioning to maximize your dmg, all you have to do is 1,2,3 over and over, the difference between correctly playing and spamming your abilities is so slim, that there is no real advantage to doing one over the other. Oh i played correctly i did 1500 DPS! Oh i just faced rolled across the keyboard i did 1490 DPS!


That's a bit of an exaggeration (the dps part). I pay very close attention to my damage. Swapping to the side for snap punch increased damage on each attack anywhere from 4-8+ points. Considering the attack only does 25-35 (~60 on crits) that's basically a 15-20% increase in DPS for that skill. Considering my normal rotation uses 3 main attacks, that's a 5-7% dps increase just by moving to the side for that skill. It may not seem like much, but sometimes every little bit helps. Same thing for attacking from behind with True Strike. 5% bonus to crits may not be huge, but stack it with moving to the side for snap punch and it adds up. I mean, if they built it into the game, why not do it? I can tell you that combat feels a bit more exciting to me when I'm constantly trying to position myself correctly for max damage. I know that lnc has many abilities that make it play similar.

I can't comment on doing the other dungeons without healers as I haven't tried, but I have a hard time believing a group is getting past the first boss of copperbell without a healer. At any one time there can be about 10-15 adds up. Not to mention the boss itself was hitting for 100ish damage per hit to our tank. A non-healer cure just won't cut it for that fight before they run out of mp from what I've seen. Unless you're talking about some kind of crazy kiting strategy and slowly taking everything down... but really, that's not how the fight is supposed to be run, it's a gimmick. Care to elaborate? (or post a link to the strat, I'm curious now)
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#304 Jun 23 2013 at 9:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

The fact of the matter is...


Sorry I can't discuss a matter with someone who assumes facts when he possesses none. The phrase is their definition to bear, not yours, as the development phases are theirs to work with.

Yes, we are in the fine tuning phase for the vast majority of the core systems in the game. Only things remain in question is individual endgame instances which will only be balanced after release. An opinion to say that we are in an 'overhaul' state is frankly insulting to the work already done.
#305Ostia, Posted: Jun 23 2013 at 10:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The first boss of copper mine is easy, or are you talking about the slime ? Which is even easier, the monster that pop up are not on par with the instance monsters, they die pretty quick, you hit a bomb, let it blow up walah, do it 4 times GG! Not a hard encounter at all. As far as the DPS, part is not that exaggerated, the difference between holding the correct rotation and not holding it, is minimal up to now, could this change in higher levels ? Probably! But so far, it's Irrelevant.
#306 Jun 23 2013 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
The first boss of copper mine is easy, or are you talking about the slime ? Which is even easier, the monster that pop up are not on par with the instance monsters, they die pretty quick, you hit a bomb, let it blow up walah, do it 4 times GG! Not a hard encounter at all. As far as the DPS, part is not that exaggerated, the difference between holding the correct rotation and not holding it, is minimal up to now, could this change in higher levels ? Probably! But so far, it's Irrelevant.

Now did you play 1.0 ? And 1.23 ? I am more interested in what you think, about repeating the same Story in ARR as in 1.0-1.23. And the fact there is not independent storyline for the "Warriors of Life" is basically the same... Oh i dont remember you, but you are special lol


I only did Copperbell once, and we seemed to be quite overwhelmed by adds on the first boss. Yes they were weak and died in 2 hits, but the sheer number of them had us lagging behind their spawn rate, not to mention the random bombs that would spawn that took a couple additional hits (and needed to be targeted first to avoid self-destructs). Our other DPS was a thm, so maybe that was the issue? I do remember that boss hitting the tank extremely hard though. The slime we actually one-shotted without having even done it before, so I agree that part wasn't too tough.

I only mention the DPS because it is more significant than you give it credit for. I was simply using the numbers and the math. A 7% DPS increase is nothing to sneeze at. Regardless, I agree with you that I'd like to see it be a little more interesting in terms of rotation, but I can't comment much since I only made it to 18 and just started getting to the point where I had options with Twin Snakes.

I played 1.0, but was not there for 1.23 so I can't comment on the storyline being the same. I can say that the storyline so far is nothing like the story of 1.0 when it released. If it's the same as you claim, that sucks for legacy players. For me, it's unique and so far I've enjoyed it quite a lot. The CS with Midgarsormr and the accompanying dialogue with the Garleans I thought was phenomenal, but I can understand how it would be frustrating if that was exactly the same as 1.23. I'm actually kind of glad now that I stopped playing before all that, as it all feels fresh to me.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 12:37am by BartelX
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#307 Jun 23 2013 at 10:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Also a group from this forum, beat an instance w/o a healer..... The first time they even set foot into an ARR dungeon.... Yeah combat is not easy... Smiley: lol


Now now Ostia. It was the first dungeon available in the game, and we wiped about 10 times total before finally figuring out a strategy that was able to work. We also had 2 tanks, one with cure. We actually had to use an incredible amount of strategy, and even a fair amount of kiting just to beat it. We had to rest every other mob group, and the run, which normally takes 30 minutes, took us over an hour. Did I mention it was the first dungeon? There is absolutely no way a group would be able to do that in Copperbell without a healer.

I actually like the combat thus far. For instance, on my pug, if I want to actually maximize my DPS, I need to focus on my positioning for every attack. I need to be behind for some abilities, move to the side for some, decide when is most ideal to use my crit boost ability (a solo pull is a waste of a 60s CD), and even help out occasionally with off-tanking with featherfoot>haymaker when there are tons of mobs (first boss of Copperbell comes to mind). And this is all at level 18. I like what I've seen so far and am looking forward to seeing the progression at higher levels.


LOL that was certainly interesting! I was the GLA main healing that group mentioned above, and yea... most definetely not easy. Worked me like a dog, they did! I must have burned 10+ ethers, while sneaking in a quick Fast Blade > Riot Blade every chance I got to maintain MP. Doing that for the first dungeon was hard, but acceptable... Doing that for the Lord of the Inferno (Ifrit) Fight? Absolutely not. xD
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#308FilthMcNasty, Posted: Jun 23 2013 at 11:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The vast majority that have yet to receive significant changes are the subject of discussion. Is it the opinion that there are yet major changes to be made, or is the insult that you consider it finished despite the wishes of the players?
#309 Jun 23 2013 at 11:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Ostia wrote:
The first boss of copper mine is easy, or are you talking about the slime ? Which is even easier, the monster that pop up are not on par with the instance monsters, they die pretty quick, you hit a bomb, let it blow up walah, do it 4 times GG! Not a hard encounter at all. As far as the DPS, part is not that exaggerated, the difference between holding the correct rotation and not holding it, is minimal up to now, could this change in higher levels ? Probably! But so far, it's Irrelevant.

Now did you play 1.0 ? And 1.23 ? I am more interested in what you think, about repeating the same Story in ARR as in 1.0-1.23. And the fact there is not independent storyline for the "Warriors of Life" is basically the same... Oh i dont remember you, but you are special lol

So, Ostia, what you are saying is that a group of (likely) experienced players familiar with FFXI, possibly XIV 1.0 and 1.23, and (likely) veterans of other MMOs had an easier time than, say, a group of brand new, off the boat people who own a PS3 with no MMO...

Wow, shocker.

You mean, like all those CoD vets who pick up Halo. Or all those Warcraft vets who pick up Starcraft. You mean, that prior experience with games in a similar genre may lead to people being able to work the mechanics and pull off sh*t that is relatively harder to do if you are new to the genre/game?

You're just @#%^ing so insightful.

Look, this is about as news as water causing one to get wet when immersed in it. Half heart runs in Zeldas, Super Kaizo hacks of SMW... If a group of gamers are good at a game, they will find ways to exploit mechanics to their advantage. Case in point: As my Marauder, I solo'd a quest obviously meant for a party or for a higher level. In the quest, you check a point, it spawns a monster. Kill it, two spawn, kill those, a third one, a boss, spawns. Now, when I did this quest, I was either too low or should have grouped. The first mob was easy, the next two got me down to low life, and the boss I had to hightail it from. In the end, using my experiences in FFXI, my knowledge of kiting tactics from countless other games, and simple pathing abuse, I killed the first enemy, killed one of the two enemies, weakened the other and kited it while swilling potions. I used Sprint and the terrain to keep my distance, and easily recharged for the last fight.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE GAME IS BROKEN IT MEANS I OUTPLAYED IT FOR @#%^S SAKE!

I used my wits, the mechanics, my meta-knowledge of reading terrain and pathing, and basically my experience to accomplish something other players would need a group to do. That's my edge over some newbie who would see this as impossible. I prepare, analyze, experiment and achieve. To me, these are signs of a GOOD game, where my SKILL not my GEAR or my LEVEL dictate my capacity!

I am SICK to DEATH of you and others like you on here constantly whining how you want this game to be like some other game or to be harder or to live up to your precious little wishes. You don't @#%^ing like the game, no one is forcing you to play the @#%^ing game. Don't buy it. Don't read about it. Just move on and find a game you do like! Simple, easy

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Don't need a sales pitch. It's a simple question. What about XIV makes it stand out from the other MMOs.

Combat? Stahp it. Please just stahp.

I'll give you that it's better than XI in that you don't need to make perfect setups for specific fights, but that's as good as saying a kick to the head is better than a kick in the balls.

See the last paragraph above your quote!

I'm done with replying to either of you. You're impossible, you will never be happy with FFXIV, you will always find fault even if it lofts to your standard, whatever the @#%^ that is. And Killua can just @#%^ right off with the lot of ya.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 1:49am by Pawkeshup
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#310 Jun 24 2013 at 12:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
The first boss of copper mine is easy, or are you talking about the slime ? Which is even easier, the monster that pop up are not on par with the instance monsters, they die pretty quick, you hit a bomb, let it blow up walah, do it 4 times GG! Not a hard encounter at all. As far as the DPS, part is not that exaggerated, the difference between holding the correct rotation and not holding it, is minimal up to now, could this change in higher levels ? Probably! But so far, it's Irrelevant.

Now did you play 1.0 ? And 1.23 ? I am more interested in what you think, about repeating the same Story in ARR as in 1.0-1.23. And the fact there is not independent storyline for the "Warriors of Life" is basically the same... Oh i dont remember you, but you are special lol


I only did Copperbell once, and we seemed to be quite overwhelmed by adds on the first boss. Yes they were weak and died in 2 hits, but the sheer number of them had us lagging behind their spawn rate, not to mention the random bombs that would spawn that took a couple additional hits (and needed to be targeted first to avoid self-destructs). Our other DPS was a thm, so maybe that was the issue? I do remember that boss hitting the tank extremely hard though. The slime we actually one-shotted without having even done it before, so I agree that part wasn't too tough.

I only mention the DPS because it is more significant than you give it credit for. I was simply using the numbers and the math. A 7% DPS increase is nothing to sneeze at. Regardless, I agree with you that I'd like to see it be a little more interesting in terms of rotation, but I can't comment much since I only made it to 18 and just started getting to the point where I had options with Twin Snakes.

I played 1.0, but was not there for 1.23 so I can't comment on the storyline being the same. I can say that the storyline so far is nothing like the story of 1.0 when it released. If it's the same as you claim, that sucks for legacy players. For me, it's unique and so far I've enjoyed it quite a lot. The CS with Midgarsormr and the accompanying dialogue with the Garleans I thought was phenomenal, but I can understand how it would be frustrating if that was exactly the same as 1.23. I'm actually kind of glad now that I stopped playing before all that, as it all feels fresh to me.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 12:37am by BartelX


Regarding Copperbell:

THM is actually pretty ideal on the Spriggan and bomb adds, provided people clumped up so that they'd all come in to the same area instead of running around like headless chickens like some Archers I have seen doing.

I was healing as THM, and even I had no issue spamming Blizzard 2 and the occasional Cure to wipe them all out while everyone else prioritized bombs. We were actually waiting on spawns because of that.
#311FilthMcNasty, Posted: Jun 24 2013 at 12:54 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I do? Then why would I ask what I bolded for you in the text you quoted above?
#312 Jun 24 2013 at 12:55 AM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
The first boss of copper mine is easy, or are you talking about the slime ? Which is even easier, the monster that pop up are not on par with the instance monsters, they die pretty quick, you hit a bomb, let it blow up walah, do it 4 times GG! Not a hard encounter at all. As far as the DPS, part is not that exaggerated, the difference between holding the correct rotation and not holding it, is minimal up to now, could this change in higher levels ? Probably! But so far, it's Irrelevant.

Now did you play 1.0 ? And 1.23 ? I am more interested in what you think, about repeating the same Story in ARR as in 1.0-1.23. And the fact there is not independent storyline for the "Warriors of Life" is basically the same... Oh i dont remember you, but you are special lol


I only did Copperbell once, and we seemed to be quite overwhelmed by adds on the first boss. Yes they were weak and died in 2 hits, but the sheer number of them had us lagging behind their spawn rate, not to mention the random bombs that would spawn that took a couple additional hits (and needed to be targeted first to avoid self-destructs). Our other DPS was a thm, so maybe that was the issue? I do remember that boss hitting the tank extremely hard though. The slime we actually one-shotted without having even done it before, so I agree that part wasn't too tough.

I only mention the DPS because it is more significant than you give it credit for. I was simply using the numbers and the math. A 7% DPS increase is nothing to sneeze at. Regardless, I agree with you that I'd like to see it be a little more interesting in terms of rotation, but I can't comment much since I only made it to 18 and just started getting to the point where I had options with Twin Snakes.

I played 1.0, but was not there for 1.23 so I can't comment on the storyline being the same. I can say that the storyline so far is nothing like the story of 1.0 when it released. If it's the same as you claim, that sucks for legacy players. For me, it's unique and so far I've enjoyed it quite a lot. The CS with Midgarsormr and the accompanying dialogue with the Garleans I thought was phenomenal, but I can understand how it would be frustrating if that was exactly the same as 1.23. I'm actually kind of glad now that I stopped playing before all that, as it all feels fresh to me.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 12:37am by BartelX


It is not as significant as you or i would like it to be, that is the problem, if you and i fight a boss and you do 3.9K and i do 3.8K DPS, but you played a perfect rotation, moving, positioning etc etc, and i just standed behind the boss and did 1/2/3 the entire fight and we practically did the same DPS, there is a fundamental problem with the combat mechanics as they stand Today! That is all i am Saying. As far as the storyline, it is the same as 1.0, if you play in uldah, is the same fundamental story, the syndicate vs the sultana, the empire in the horizon, the beast tribe stealing crystals to summon the primals, if you are a legacy player, the only difference is that instead of the npc saying "You are like this people that died or we dont remember" the npc say "You remind me of .... But i cannot remember you" basically is the same story, if you are legacy or not, they treat you the same, even tho you are the warriors of light... Which btw is unoriginal
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#313 Jun 24 2013 at 1:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
you are the warriors of light... Which btw is unoriginal


Would it really be considered unoriginal? From what, FFXIV 1.0, or from just previous FF titles in general? They have used that premise in FF games before, but they created it. It's not as if they are ripping the ideas (story wise) from other companies. Them trying to recreate an early Final Fantasy feel and nuance to this game almost begs for the term "Warriors of Light", so for them to have not used it would feel foolish. Not many Final Fantasies I can think became truly successful without having to piggyback on the shoulders of the one before it. Does naming the summons the same names feel unoriginal? Does anyone complain that Bahamut is in this game? My guess would be no. Does anyone complain that the jobs you can aquire have been recycled through most Final Fantasy games? I haven't seen it. Everybody (from what I can gather) went ******* when 1.0 didn't have Chocobos in it. So now that Chocobos are in there, do you think anybody gives a **** how unoriginal they are? I can't wait to ride around on some Magitek armor mounts! Not because they are badass or anything, I just like to do things in spite of originality.
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#314Killua125, Posted: Jun 24 2013 at 2:12 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I like that argument, because chocobos and summon names and recurring monsters are definitely the same thing as repeat storylines.
#315 Jun 24 2013 at 2:45 AM Rating: Default
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supermegazeke wrote:
Ostia wrote:
you are the warriors of light... Which btw is unoriginal


Would it really be considered unoriginal? From what, FFXIV 1.0, or from just previous FF titles in general? They have used that premise in FF games before, but they created it. It's not as if they are ripping the ideas (story wise) from other companies. Them trying to recreate an early Final Fantasy feel and nuance to this game almost begs for the term "Warriors of Light", so for them to have not used it would feel foolish. Not many Final Fantasies I can think became truly successful without having to piggyback on the shoulders of the one before it. Does naming the summons the same names feel unoriginal? Does anyone complain that Bahamut is in this game? My guess would be no. Does anyone complain that the jobs you can aquire have been recycled through most Final Fantasy games? I haven't seen it. Everybody (from what I can gather) went apesh*t when 1.0 didn't have Chocobos in it. So now that Chocobos are in there, do you think anybody gives a sh*t how unoriginal they are? I can't wait to ride around on some Magitek armor mounts! Not because they are badass or anything, I just like to do things in spite of originality.


Considering the massive amount of themes the game has had to borrow, and the extremely little to no originality the game brings on itself... Why bring the warriors of Light ? Because the ****** "Warriors of light" by reading it emanates a feeling of nostalgia ? Not really, it looks unoriginal, considering that is what the warriors of Final Fantasy Dissidia are called, and if you really pay attention, it seems we are also gonna have that plot in XIV, The warrior of light vs the warriors of Chaos! Yes Chaos! Will be Back! At this point i am fully expecting Sephiroth to show up, tho he already kinda did, in that little cameo he made as darnasus.... There is another original chacacter Smiley: lol

Outside of the Echo... I have yet to encounter an original piece of story to this story line, is just a big mesh of different final fantasy themes put together like a patchwork and GG

Also Yeah! Story = chocobos... or bahamu.... Smiley: lol
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#316 Jun 24 2013 at 3:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Haters gonna hate. /shrug
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#317 Jun 24 2013 at 3:25 AM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately the EU servers are the same as before when there was a delay by a couple of seconds to the server. Moving out of an orange target circle in time is almost impossible. You can be well out of it in time and still be hit by it. This is my only grievance with the game - everything else is great.
#318 Jun 24 2013 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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Warriors of Light were in 1-3 and.... actually I'm not sure which other ones. Need more coffee.

We were Warriors of the Crystal in XI, and it was just a title earned upon defeating the 5 Ark Angels. (Until they introduced the Teleport Sky quest, which required that you have the title re-applied so that you could attune yourself to the tele-pad in {sky} for a warp from any of the crags. Without the title, the tele-pads did not recognize you as a legit user. Clever, SE. Clever.)
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#319 Jun 24 2013 at 6:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I ran all the beta content this weekend, and completed the entire storyline available in the beta.

Yes, the starter dungeons were fairly easy for us. That's because everyone on our beta server was a veteran player and comfortable with dungeon running. They increased the timer to 90 minutes which was far far too long, IMO.

We completed Tam Tara before the timer hit 60 minutes remaining, which wasn't surprising as we've run that one so many times in previous phases.

In Sastasha, no one died, though we almost did a few times with the mechanics with the fireflies and clams. It seemed that the fireflies would continually respawn unless you killed the clam first, which took a few respawns to figure out.

The bossed in Copperbell mines were much more interesting. Yes, the mini-boss slime was easy once you figured it out, but as a fresh run with no info, it took some time and that was very cool. The final boss kill our con and me, mrd tank, but we got the final hits in and won.

What's noteworthy about the difficulty level is a) we were all level-synced down to its max level of 17, while new players will probably go in there at 15 b) we don't know exactly how much gimping level sync does to gear and c) We all knew how to play.

I think the starter dungeons do a great job of introducing players ot dungeons and teaching them that you can't approach every encounter the exact same way.

Lastly, we fought Ifrit. It's a much better fight now, and the storyline leading to it is very cool. We played on a JP server and STILL were able to dodge eruptions with no problem, no lag.
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#320 Jun 24 2013 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
Regarding Copperbell:

THM is actually pretty ideal on the Spriggan and bomb adds, provided people clumped up so that they'd all come in to the same area instead of running around like headless chickens like some Archers I have seen doing.

I was healing as THM, and even I had no issue spamming Blizzard 2 and the occasional Cure to wipe them all out while everyone else prioritized bombs. We were actually waiting on spawns because of that.


Ah, then therein lied our problem I guess. I don't remember the thm using blizzard 2 once on that fight. I think he was focusing too much on healing, which would explain why we are lagging behind in terms of adds. I still think the boss hits too hard to be beaten straight up without a healer, but with a decent kiting strategy I could see it being done if the adds don't pose a threat. And since the slime boss is just figure out the mechanics and the last boss is more a DPS race than anything, I guess I could see it being beaten. Regardless, it's a dungeon at level 17(?). It's not like it's endgame.

Ostia wrote:
It is not as significant as you or i would like it to be, that is the problem, if you and i fight a boss and you do 3.9K and i do 3.8K DPS, but you played a perfect rotation, moving, positioning etc etc, and i just standed behind the boss and did 1/2/3 the entire fight and we practically did the same DPS, there is a fundamental problem with the combat mechanics as they stand Today! That is all i am Saying. As far as the storyline, it is the same as 1.0, if you play in uldah, is the same fundamental story, the syndicate vs the sultana, the empire in the horizon, the beast tribe stealing crystals to summon the primals, if you are a legacy player, the only difference is that instead of the npc saying "You are like this people that died or we dont remember" the npc say "You remind me of .... But i cannot remember you" basically is the same story, if you are legacy or not, they treat you the same, even tho you are the warriors of light... Which btw is unoriginal


Again, you are underestimating the advantage. If you did 3.8k DPS, I'd be doing a hair under 4.1k DPS. I know it's not earth shattering, but it's still significant, especially in a fight that is more of a DPS race, and especially if you have more than 1 pug. I agree though, it's not as significant as it probably should be.

In terms of storyline... two things. First, this seems like a case of history repeating itself. It's even mentioned in one of the CS that this isn't even just the second time the Garleans have tried to conquer Eorzea. It's a repetitive thing, because for whatever reason they think they are the saviors of the land and that it's crucial for them to control Eorzea. I mean, how many times in Earth's history have a conquering army repeatedly tried to claim the same lands? Quite a bit. So if it's a tad redundant, so be it. Life tends to be redundant sometimes. If the accompanying storyline is good enough, it will be fine.

Second, the whole forgetting thing. The Warriors of Light were somehow teleported 5 years into the future. We don't really know much more about it than that, but it's quite possible that because they were moved into the future, they altered the flow of time and therefore people's perception of them and the events they were involved in. I expect it to be fleshed out more, you know, when we can play past level 20 in the story. So much doom and gloom in here...
#321 Jun 24 2013 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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#322 Jun 24 2013 at 6:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Dizmo wrote:
sandpark wrote:

Sounds like you are tired of rpgs in general. Almost every single quest in the offline FF or other offline rpgs are scripted, you level up, and you kill things over and over.


Pretty much... I guess it just feels like MMOs ought to have more complexity and depth than whacking mobs that inexplicably reappear outside town every few minutes now that it's 2013. :/ I find it hard to maintain my suspension of disbelief.


It's too hard to have that many people involved, online, and not have lag going off all over the place ******** people over. That's why things aren't overly complicated in MMO's.

I don't mean fast paced action style mechanics though.
#323 Jun 24 2013 at 7:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Belcrono wrote:
Out of curiosity will legacy players retain their previous GC ranks or do we start over completely?


I kept my rank.
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#324 Jun 24 2013 at 9:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
What about XIV makes it stand out from the other MMOs.

Then why would I ask what I bolded for you in the text you quoted above?

What makes XIV different? Why is XIV NOT like the rest of them? Go ahead and let it sink in for a while.

The only thing I gripe about in XIV currently is the battle system and the graphics. I'm fine with the rest of it as long as they make an effort to continually improve it all. Not surprisingly, most of the feedback they receive about the game currently deals with combat or battle mechanics. It's something that more than just I myself think is important. You'd have a point if I were complaining about something that only I wanted. Yes, that would be selfish; however that isn't the case.


The question does have answers, both obvious and subtle, but even I can see it would be wasted on you to try explaining it. I was fine trash talking 1.0 with you back in the day because it really needed trashing, but leaving all the improvements made since then completely unacknowledged just to drive this impression that most FFXIV players feel like it's the September 2010 release over again and about to riot is incredibly disingenuous. Thread after thread, you're just doing your very best Killua impression these days, and it's dull and predictable at this point.

Of course, not everything about the game is going to please everyone completely, but no game ever really achieves that. But, the game will still be improved over time. Subscription-based MMOs are supposed to be like that. This isn't some B2P that won't improve until the next expansion or some F2P that's going to fade in a few months once all the whales have had their fill. So I'm not worried if there are some tweaks here and there that would help. That's minor compared to the laundry list of issues breaking FFXIV's back three years ago.
#325 Jun 24 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:


The vast majority...



Wrong again.

To put this to bed...

Of the 664 Feedback issues listed in the Feedback Status list:

293 Issues have been resolved.
228 Issues are pending resolution.
143 Issues Are Working as intended or will not be implemented.

To clarify, taking issue with something working as intended does not mean it has not been addressed. Re-raising issues that have been shot down does not mean you received no response.

There is no vast majority here. Little more than a third of the issues raised as far as Phase 3 are pending adjustments right now. "The vast majority" is not on your side of the argument, even though you likely attempt to included the 143 issues you promptly were told no on to pad your argument - addressing an issue in the negative is still addressing the issue. You don't get everything you complain for.

Of the feedback released in the Feeback Forums, few are new issues. Many are issues are already on the list as "Planned to adjust." Given how daunting the addressed issues list is, I can understand why there are so many repeats. - That's quite a bit of reading to do. However, that's no excuse for making false remarks to try to give validation to bogus claims.

The majority of the issues raised, have been regarded, or haven been stated that they are not going to change.

I should say, there's enough information there to make an educated opinion on whether or not you're going to play the game. If you're on the fence or in the negative at this state, I have severe doubts you'll change your tune by phase 4 or release. Methinks it's time to make a choice.


Edit:

By the way, if you forego damage rotations you're actually going to be closer to ~25% or more behind in damage on lancer by level 50. Chaos Thrust has superior Max Potency including the debuff than any other skill in the game, but you cannot stack the Debuff yourself therefore you must rotate it out.

Should also note that the Debuff reads the damage resistance and damage increases on time of hit, increasing the DoT's overall damage if you're buffed up.

This, in addition to the 30% damage increase you gain from Blood for Blood, 10% Damage Bonus gained from Heavy Thrust, 10% resistance down from Disembowel, the 230 Potency Damage from Phlebotomize, you start falling behind incredibly if all you're doing is your straight combo.

This isn't including cross class skills.

Given how the average dungeon fight is longer now, those differences are counting more and more. Yes, you survive performing poorly up to a point, but that margin for error tightens as you go up the ramp of difficulty in the dungeons - and they do get more difficult.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 11:41am by Hyrist
#326 Jun 24 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Like I said before, just being FF doesn't carry anything.
Ha, you could put a Final Fantasy logo on a bag of flaming crap and it'll sell 3m, everyone will complain about it, and then buy the next one.
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#327 Jun 24 2013 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Like I said before, just being FF doesn't carry anything.
Ha, you could put a Final Fantasy logo on a bag of flaming crap and it'll sell 3m, everyone will complain about it, and then buy the next one.


Only if the bag of crap also wields a Buster Sword.
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#328 Jun 24 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Like I said before, just being FF doesn't carry anything.
Ha, you could put a Final Fantasy logo on a bag of flaming crap and it'll sell 3m, everyone will complain about it, and then buy the next one.


Only if the bag of crap also wields a Buster Sword.


Would we include odd hairstyles as part of this? or effeminate men? those both seem to be a consistency.

Personally, it doesn't even need the Brand Stamp. If it's a pile of crap that so much as warks like a chocobo, it'll sell like hotcakes.
#329 Jun 24 2013 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
Hyrist wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Like I said before, just being FF doesn't carry anything.
Ha, you could put a Final Fantasy logo on a bag of flaming crap and it'll sell 3m, everyone will complain about it, and then buy the next one.


Only if the bag of crap also wields a Buster Sword.


Would we include odd hairstyles as part of this? or effeminate men? those both seem to be a consistency.

Personally, it doesn't even need the Brand Stamp. If it's a pile of crap that so much as warks like a chocobo, it'll sell like hotcakes.


So a flaming bag of crap with a horrible hair cut that likes to sulk and complain about how unfair his life is while killing monsters with a 9 foot sword? 3 million easy...
#330 Jun 24 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Like I said before, just being FF doesn't carry anything.
Ha, you could put a Final Fantasy logo on a bag of flaming crap and it'll sell 3m, everyone will complain about it, and then buy the next one.


Only if the bag of crap also wields a Buster Sword.


Would we include odd hairstyles as part of this? or effeminate men? those both seem to be a consistency.

Personally, it doesn't even need the Brand Stamp. If it's a pile of crap that so much as warks like a chocobo, it'll sell like hotcakes.


So a flaming bag of crap with a horrible hair cut that likes to sulk and complain about how unfair his life is while killing monsters with a 9 foot sword? 3 million easy...


Make it dual-wielding buster swords and I'm sold. Smiley: sly
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#331 Jun 24 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Make it dual-wielding buster swords and I'm sold.


Make it dual wielded buster gunblades and we have the BEST...GAME...EVER...
#332 Jun 24 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gunblades that shoot buster swords?
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#333 Jun 24 2013 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
Gunblades that shoot buster swords?
Screenshot
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#334 Jun 24 2013 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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This thread just got really ****ing awesome.
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#335 Jun 24 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Ok, so we have a flaming bag of crap with a bad haircut that dual wields gunblades that shoot buster swords. He is a sulking rebel that is angry at the world because he is a clone of someone who has died and no one understands him and he doesn't know how to express his feelings constructively. He has a high school love/hate relationship with his female counterpart even though she isn't the hottest female in the party, but she is sweet and spunky. Gentlemen, we may be creating the single most important video game character of all time...
#336 Jun 24 2013 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Ok, so we have a flaming bag of crap with a bad haircut that dual wields gunblades that shoot buster swords. He is a sulking rebel that is angry at the world because he is a clone of someone who has died and no one understands him and he doesn't know how to express his feelings constructively. He has a high school love/hate relationship with his female counterpart even though she isn't the hottest female in the party, but she is sweet and spunky. Gentlemen, we may be creating the single most important video game character of all time...



...can his name be Sqoud? Sounds fitting for a flaming bag of crap... and definitely something I'd want to leave on someone's doorstep.
#337 Jun 24 2013 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
BartelX wrote:
SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Ok, so we have a flaming bag of crap with a bad haircut that dual wields gunblades that shoot buster swords. He is a sulking rebel that is angry at the world because he is a clone of someone who has died and no one understands him and he doesn't know how to express his feelings constructively. He has a high school love/hate relationship with his female counterpart even though she isn't the hottest female in the party, but she is sweet and spunky. Gentlemen, we may be creating the single most important video game character of all time...



...can his name be Sqoud? Sounds fitting for a flaming bag of crap... and definitely something I'd want to leave on someone's doorstep.


How about Sqoudus? Sounds like a disease you get from drinking dirty water.
#338 Jun 24 2013 at 2:17 PM Rating: Default
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Xoie wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
What about XIV makes it stand out from the other MMOs.


The question does have answers, both obvious and subtle, but even I can see it would be wasted on you to try explaining it.


I'll take this response as a "Yes" to a question that isn't yes or no...

I wasn't even asking for a list of things, just one simple answer. Just putting it out there... "nothing" is a valid answer. Because I ask the question, 3 years of **** hurt gets tacked on and people immediately shell up and get defensive for no reason.


Xoie wrote:
I was fine trash talking 1.0 with you back in the day because it really needed trashing, but leaving all the improvements made since then completely unacknowledged just to drive this impression that most FFXIV players feel like it's the September 2010 release over again and about to riot is incredibly disingenuous. Thread after thread, you're just doing your very best Killua impression these days, and it's dull and predictable at this point.


The negative feedback (not just from myself, but others as well) is a large part of what got us where we are today. ARR is a vast improvement over 1.0 that is promising, but still needs more work done. This isn't about 2010 Xoie. I'm not here to bash or even give feedback about XIV, I'm asking for positive feedback from other people. Not sure whether to laugh because people can't leave the past in the past, or cry because no one can come up with anything better than "The other games don't have 'Final Fantasy' in the title" Smiley: glare
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#339 Jun 24 2013 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
Well, one thig that is almost exclusively unique to ffxiv and ffxi is true cross platform gameplay.

This is a huge plus not just for console gamers, but also pc gamers who own consoles.

The ability for one character to play as all jobs is still very unique, and a concept SE cultivated and stood by.

Dual user interfaces are unique.

Chocobos are unique, and they've been around since WoW players weRe in diapers.

ARR's focus on a strong, single storyline is unique. Other games just don't stack up to what SE brings to the table. Also, SE's courage to tell a strong story rather than develop dozens of weaker stories for players to amble through is a more unique trait these days.

Building the game on a custom, scalable graphics engine is unique.

The traditional FF job presentation is unique.

All the Final Fantasy lore is unique.

Party limit breaks are unique.

Anyway, that should help move things forward. :)
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#340 Jun 24 2013 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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Filthy wrote:
The negative feedback (not just from myself, but others as well) is a large part of what got us where we are today. ARR is a vast improvement over 1.0 that is promising, but still needs more work done. This isn't about 2010 Xoie. I'm not here to bash or even give feedback about XIV, I'm asking for positive feedback from other people. Not sure whether to laugh because people can't leave the past in the past, or cry because no one can come up with anything better than "The other games don't have 'Final Fantasy' in the title"


There are 6 pages of positive feedback right here. There are hundreds of pages of it on the beta forums. If you're too lazy to read it or look for it, why should anyone have to hold your hand and explain it for you? Also, it's abundantly clear that you don't really care what other people think, you just want fuel to spit back at them and tell them why they're wrong, so why would people willingly do that? Go read the thread and the beta forums and find your answer. If you don't like things about the game, go post about it in the feedback section of the forums, or post in other threads of people you agree with. It's really not a difficult concept.
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#341 Jun 24 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Default
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Did you honestly expect that a thread labeled "first impressions" would be 100% positive? Then your opinion is that ARR is perfect.

As someone who doesn't really have a very high opinion of the game, it is interesting that some people really are liking it - and I don't blame him at all for wanting to understand why.

I think for most people it just boils down to, "because it's Final Fantasy" (as for why they like it).

Think about it. Have you ever seen anyone write up positive impressions of XIV that didn't start with, "First of all, I'm a hardcore, longtime Final Fantasy fanboy, and etc., etc."?

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 4:55pm by Killua125
#342 Jun 24 2013 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Think about it. Have you ever seen anyone write up negative impressions of XIV that didn't start with, "ZOMG TEH GAME IS TEH WOW CLONEZ"?


For once, I agree with you.
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#343 Jun 24 2013 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Xoie wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
What about XIV makes it stand out from the other MMOs.


The question does have answers, both obvious and subtle, but even I can see it would be wasted on you to try explaining it.


I'll take this response as a "Yes" to a question that isn't yes or no...


Even Obvious Troll thinks it's obvious, Filth:

Killua125 wrote:
I think for most people it just boils down to, "because it's Final Fantasy" (as for why they like it).


All FFXIV has to be is a Final Fantasy-themed MMO that's easy to get into (as in, using the basic conventions that people expect MMOs to have these days) and doesn't require you to sacrifice every spare second of your life to make progress in (though you can if you want to). There are people who buy millions of copies of FF titles every year; if you can even get a fraction of them to sign up and stick around, you'll have a successful game that improves over the years, fueled by steady subscriptions.

Tweaking the lighting or the pace of combat is an insignificant problem to deal with by comparison. It's not nearly as big a deal as you're making it out to be considering how simple those things can be adjusted. The basic big things, like the engine and reduced lag, are working. The UI is mostly intuitive, simple and responsive (with separate designs for K&M and game-pads). The land is worth exploring and has character. There are the iconic Final Fantasy creatures you've come to expect in the game. The economy actually has a chance of working properly for once.

Things are looking up way more than they look doomed.
#344 Jun 24 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Xoie, you're harshing the troll buzz!
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#345 Jun 24 2013 at 3:56 PM Rating: Default
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Killua125 wrote:
As someone who doesn't really have a very high opinion of the game, it is interesting that some people really are liking it - and I don't blame him at all for wanting to understand why.


I don't blame people for liking it, I'm just trying to approach it from the perspective of why they would choose it over something else. "You just want reasons people like the game so you can shoot them all down" is somehow a valid response because of an opinion I held 3 years ago apparently. Perhaps I should have just socked a thread asking the same question so I wouldn't carry the stigma of the guy who dared have a different opinion about the precious than a die hard fan.

I don't get why people are so defensive. I asked what I asked and nothing more. For some reason, "What would you say is unique about XIV" translates into "XIV sucks and there is nothing unique about it". I'm not here trying to prove or disprove people's opinions.

As Thayos said, the lore and storyline, chocobo and character models are all unique, but the same is said for any game. Cross-platform and the job system carried over from XI, but it's fair to lump XI and XIV together. What I was really looking for was game mechanics or other similar features that are unique only to XIV(at least in their implementation), like limit breaks.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 5:58pm by FilthMcNasty
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#346 Jun 24 2013 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
Tweaking the lighting or the pace of combat is an insignificant problem to deal with by comparison. It's not nearly as big a deal as you're making it out to be considering how simple those things can be adjusted. The basic big things, like the engine and reduced lag, are working. The UI is mostly intuitive, simple and responsive (with separate designs for K&M and game-pads). The land is worth exploring and has character. There are the iconic Final Fantasy creatures you've come to expect in the game. The economy actually has a chance of working properly for once.

Things are looking up way more than they look doomed.


I haven't said anything about the pace of combat since SE gave everything had a 4 second GCD. Pretty much anyone who played with that system had the same gripe. My own gripe with the combat system was the lack of reactive abilities or ability modifiers, positioning and group based tactics. I also mentioned in the same breath that I'd wait to make a final judgement until the coming changes were implemented.

I also recall saying(not verbatim, but **** close) that the new UI made me so moist that I started to slide in my chair. I guess people remove the rose-colored lenses so they can selectively read what they want to see whenever I make a post?
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Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#347 Jun 24 2013 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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Translation: "After I disregard all the reasons for buying the game. I want you to give me a reason to buy the game."
#348 Jun 24 2013 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
What about XIV makes it stand out from the other MMOs.


I missed the drama, I guess, but I'll answer you with my opinion.

Story For most mmos, story is just the loose context in which you get "teh moar lootz". FFXI was great for story. The end of 1.0's storyline was very good, and what I played of the beta's story (I played all of it) was even better.
Screenshot


People looking for a true online RPG can find it here, instead of the "Diablo with a 3rd-person camera" that is many other mmos.

Graphics For me, this kept me playing the terrible pre-1.8 FFXIV much longer than I should have. It's one of the best-looking mmos around.

Job System Obviously. 1 name - many classes is my ideal system. No needing to list all your character names to your friends so they can find you, no changing to an alt when you decide to be a total *sshat in a major city shouting obscenities. No repeating that same mindless level 12 story quest again just to level a second class.

Yoshi-P Just Yoshi-P man. He could announce that he is making the next Hello Kitty: Island Adventure game and I'll go pre-order it right now.
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#349 Jun 24 2013 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly FFXIV 2.0 probably isn't doing any one particular thing to stand out. Nothing is super innovative or anything. There aren't one or two things I can point to and tell you "This is what makes ffxiv awesome!".

What it does do is take much of the best of the 'standard' mmo ingredients together to make a yummy cake and puts a thick layer of delicious Final Fantasy frosting over it all.

I am really enjoying the graphics, story, music, gameplay and that FF feel. I have my gripes but can see myself playing this for a long time as long as the endgame is there (and it should be).

Also, remember we haven't seen the whole thing yet either.
#350 Jun 24 2013 at 5:04 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
Yoshi-P Just Yoshi-P man. He could announce that he is making the next Hello Kitty: Island Adventure game and I'll go pre-order it right now.


If you would buy any game just because you like Yoshi-P, doesn't that make your recommendation for ARR pretty much useless?
#351 Jun 24 2013 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Yoshi-P Just Yoshi-P man. He could announce that he is making the next Hello Kitty: Island Adventure game and I'll go pre-order it right now.


If you would buy any game just because you like Yoshi-P, doesn't that make your recommendation for ARR pretty much useless?


I pretty much love everything Atlus has been releasing for some time now. Because of that I'm a day 1 preorder for the next of any Atlus release. Will my review, unless negative, not be considered viable?
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