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Will SE Refund a Pre-Order?Follow

#27 Jun 16 2013 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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sixstroke wrote:
Herzer wrote:
Just another Troll, go play Wow.


Are you referring to me?

Because that I am not..and while my post count may not be that high, they've always been of quality hopefully helpful to whonever it was intended for.

You, with your 6 posts seem more likely to be the troll than I.

I am a customer who has thusfar not been satisifed with a product purchased.


Then why did you purchase it without trying it first? I mean, clearly you knew you were going to be able to try it at some point since there is going to be an open beta before launch. So why would you pay for a game you clearly must have at least guessed you might not like if you never tried it? To me, this seems more like a cry for attention. You didn't like the game and want other people to know why, then you tack on the fact that you want a refund.

Hopefully you can get your refund, as I know it would suck to spend 60 bucks on a game you won't like... but let this be a lesson to you, don't buy something without trying it first... or at least doing research on it to find out if it sounds like something you'd like. There was definitely enough info floating around to give a good idea as to whether or not you'd enjoy it.
#28 Jun 16 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Ostia wrote:
I can dig up 2 threads of each past MMO that has failed, where people where raving about how good it is etc etc.

The beta or main forums are not a good indicator of the majority, they are people that stuck with 1.0, some praised it as the second coming of Christ etc etc... They are not sane Smiley: lol

Tho it will not Fail! It will be something along the lines of Gw2.

I'm not surprised you'd still say that, even after being sold on the game yourself, Ostia. Some people just love to shoot everything positive down.

You probably could. Same you could do for ever successful MMO and people crying a river saying the game is going to fail.

However, you don't get many like the threads there with multiple people who were once doubting the game turning around and saying they're sold on it now.


Is not a meter of shooting a positive down, is a meter of keeping things realistic, singling out 2 threads in the main beta forums is not proof of will the game succeed.
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#29 Jun 16 2013 at 7:39 PM Rating: Default
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I am clearly upsetting some, but I promise that is not my intention.

This is not a cry for attention as others may believe either, I stated in my second post in this thread that my ulterior reason for this thread was to see who else felt as I do.

As to why I purchased prior to release: A mix of impatience, intrigue, excitement and a need to fill some FF nostalgia.

During the Beta, I played THM to 11, conj to 8, Glad to 16 and Mug to 14. Is this enough for a proper evaluation of the entire leveling scheme? Of couree not, but by level you start to get a feel for how the rest of the game will likely pan out.

I truly don't understand why people are taking this personally, I'm not trying to stir up things for the sake of it. I want to be proved wrong.

#30 Jun 16 2013 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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A couple reasons: one) this is not the SE official forums, we can't really help you on your refund. two) you're fishing, hoping other people will feel the same as you and validate your opinion. Saying you "hope if will get better" after saying it's going to die a quick death is about as much of a sideways approach as you can take. That is, after naming the thread "Will they give me my coppers back?" isn't about discussion, it's about putting both barrels into the game's gut without even really experiencing it.

Leveling a few jobs to barely outside the starting areas isn't a feat. I don't think you have a good understanding of leveling a character yet, not claiming I do, but the first areas are for getting your feet underneath you and you did that on 4+ jobs. I hope you understand the concepts of using three or four skills at this point.
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#31 Jun 16 2013 at 7:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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sixstroke wrote:
During the Beta, I played THM to 11, conj to 8, Glad to 16 and Mug to 14. Is this enough for a proper evaluation of the entire leveling scheme? Of couree not, but by level you start to get a feel for how the rest of the game will likely pan out.


Really? You played less than a third of any one class, and you get a feel for how the rest of the game plays out? Hmm... I know I didn't really have a feel for how FFXI combat worked until I had a character well into the 50's-60's. Same for most MMOs, considering most don't get their truly cool abilities until at LEAST the halfway point of the game. I'd highly recommend trying to get your most enjoyable class to the beta cap (35 I think) and then re-examine. You barely scratched the surface of leveling in the game, and I think that's a big part of your problem.
sixstroke wrote:

I truly don't understand why people are taking this personally, I'm not trying to stir up things for the sake of it. I want to be proved wrong.


I don't think people are taking it personally. I think people are confused as to your reasoning. A lot of it seems rather shallow, and some seems like you are just plain uninformed (ie targeting, which can be completely customized through in-game options). And the whole gearing thing, in which you are basing your opinion off the first 15 levels of a game. Even in FFXI, the first 15-20 levels had gear sets that got replaced. Also, there are about 10 different options in FFXIV for almost every level range, be it from vendors or quest rewards. It seems like you just didn't even bother trying to find ways to gear differently, you just did a few quests and made assumptions. I won't say anything about combat, as I do think it's a bit dull, but I also don't have a class above level 15 so I am going to wait until I am considerably higher before jumping to conclusions like you seem to be doing.

Seriously, I think you are just overreacting to things you just haven't tried out enough in the game. I'd highly encourage you to keep going. Maybe you won't like it in the end, but maybe you will.
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#32 Jun 16 2013 at 7:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I read six's comments, and I felt a little confused... I grinded my **** off in that weekend we had, and I only got to a 17 Marauder with an Airship pass, and still didn't get to truly see the other cities... The way you sound, you sound as if you played a little, ran around a little, didn't have gil for gear, didn't like the gear options, and just said to yourself this is average... I was gonna let this post slide because it seems like others have pointed out to you how I feel about the situation, and have covered it nicely, but I felt this had to be said for others, and you to hear.

What I experienced in that beta was pure hard work by Yoshi P... I saw a struggle to level.(which I liked high xp numbers) I saw lustrous environments, and many many many quests to complete. I saw a world with vision, and I just question myself did you get to the hunter's log, did you get high enough to get in on those nice fate battles where you meet strangers fighting together? Did you craft anything? Did you do any story missions? Did you get to the mission where you had to fight the raptors, and everyone was patiently waiting till others pops, and were helping out? The adventure of running through the new lands to figure stuff out...

These are the things that make an MMO tight... The little moments out in the field when you meet people. I had my doubts, I played FFXI for 7 years, and I didn't think that magic could be recreated... I was wrong, I had my doubt about FATE's, but 300 of them just at launch? That's a lot of FATE's. Then on top of that, most of us just kinda saw our starting city(which was beautiful), and the same classes running around, until people started traveling to new lands. ****, I just got to my level to be able to beta test more areas, and more dungeons, witness parties, and guild leves.

Now, I was on a fresh server. I don't know if you were a 1.0 player, and you had a job to do all the later level stuff, but I believe if you did, you wouldn't be trying to ask questions like can I return my pre-order. And if you didn't have a high level job to start, you really didn't see much to form that kind of opinion about the overall state of the game in 2 days. And.... I think we were confused by you stating that comment about returning the game, and then in the same post say at the end, you "hope your wrong"... That was kinda confusing to me. Plus... "major rework"? What kind of major rework? Saying a game needs "major" rework, and only have 3-4 things that your not satisfied with doesn't constitute a major rework... I was suckered into posting in this thread like the rest of us, cause your probably laying on the couch sleep while i'm typing this. LOL

I think you should give the game another chance... Beta test some things you wouldn't normally do, and get in touch with the game as a whole, and what Yoshi-P and the team are trying to pull off and accomplish. I'm by no way saying the game is the best and is perfect, but will it survive? I think so... remember, this is the beta and not even all the areas are open... and... This is the first part of the game... there will be plenty of updates leading up to its first expansion. Plenty more jobs, plenty more future reasons that will later explain the reasons they did certain things now... This is a game that I wouldn't say you could judge until you at least hit level 30 and 15 on multiple classes, and you obtain your first jobs, and really see how things are done. And this is a person who's first experience was this weekend. Only better things will come my friend... :)


Edited, Jun 16th 2013 10:05pm by SirLuciousLeftfoot
#33 Jun 16 2013 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm in a similar boat whether or not I play the game. I decided after playing open beta for the original version not to play until improvements were made. I hope to figure this out by open beta with this version and hoping this time I'll play. I'm excited to see new additions to he races and having male/female of every race and 4 different versions of hyur. I'm hoping combat is a bit more intuitive than before. Doesn't need to be super fast pace but something that has thought into it and skill to come out during difficult encounters. The next concern I have would be story progression. I'm more of a gritty feel sort of story. Not everyone is nice and caring, hard sacrifices are made and along the lines of a complete story which may not always end in a happy tone. Some ff games had that feel. I hope his one isn't rainbows and sunshine. Gloom and doom isn't necessary either but something on the grey scale of things and I believe I'll be happy.

Side note for storyline purposes it would be nice if some mmo would do some sort of backstory on you and the family you hail from. Somewhere along the line you try to save one of them and could possibly end up tragic. Then the vengeance comes.
#34 Jun 16 2013 at 8:03 PM Rating: Default
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I still say he is a Troll in disguise. go ahead and rate me down. If you don't like the game don't play, I"m tired of people complaining about every game I like. I realize all games have their problems, but if you don't like them, don't play them. It is really quite simple.
#35 Jun 16 2013 at 8:39 PM Rating: Good
OK Six. You are in the Beta. You have concerns. You don't think they are going to get fixed.

So what in the holy **** have you done about it?

That's why Herzer is saying you are a troll right now. You are in the perfect position to help influence development right now. Timers are very easily adjusted, and likely will get tweaked all over the place over this phase and next before launch. I don't know if you've done a beta before... but often the Beta phases can be entirely different than launch. Honestly, I think the TP regen and GCD might both be tweaked to make you be able to spam simply to gather the interaction data and see what shakes out. Often they allow you on test servers to do things that are impossible in the game because they want to see if you can break something.

There will be a LOT of adjustments as the game goes on as well. ****, FFXI is eleven years old and it's getting more adjustments to base mechanics as we speak. That's the nature of the MMO, constant tweaking, constant response to feedback, constant development.

FFXI circa 2004 is an entirely different game than FFXI circa 2013. Judging a game that JUST got remade on it's Beta is the core of presumption, and treating the Beta like some form of demo is ridiculous.
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#36 Jun 16 2013 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with the sentiments of many, but here is my thing. If you're a new player looking to play something new, you'll find it. In fact, you'll get that value at $29.99, half of what a new release would be. By pre-ordering, you also get 3-7 day early access (I heard 5 but can't provide a link for sure) in addition to having 1-2 weeks of open beta. So you're getting almost a full month free (not counting P3 test time) to find out if you like/enjoy the game. Which is a great value, considering the cost of new titles. Now you may have some valid concerns, but if you're not voicing those concerns on the beta forums, you've defeated the purpose of being a beta tester in the first place.

Combat is a little stale early on, but that's the same for all games. **** in WoW you're button mashing through most of the leveling content and even some of the raid content. A change I noticed is monsters have channeled attacks that you can DODGE. So combat does begin to pickup in difficulty. I had a FATE with a giant Cactuar. Every 10 seconds or so he'd do an AOE 100 needles attack. Standing in that more than twice was death. So you learned to move in and out. Combat will evolve, and in ways, the GCD might be a blessing because instead of sitting there waiting for your abilities to recharge, you'll be repositioning or evading and by the time you're ready to strike guess what. Your cooldown is up.
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#37 Jun 16 2013 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
I hear all these issues about combat, but now what are you expecting from an MMO? When you think about pure fighting games (Street Fighter, MK, etc), the online mode for those are for an actual fighter and you still get delayed inputs regardless of connection. Now imagine an MMO with 10x the amount of stuff going on trying to make combat more intricate. People would just get ****** off certain things weren't coming out on time or that certain things should of happened that didn't.

I tried Tera, the combat was a bit better, but still bland after 1 hour of doing it. Everyone says the combat is not their cup of tea, though I have yet to see someone come up with an idea to make it better. You can probably get more advanced combat, but I can guarantee you'll be cursing at your monitor every time a certain doesn't come out on time to counter, or cure, or do whatever you wanted it to do.
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#38 Jun 16 2013 at 9:28 PM Rating: Default
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I hear all these issues about combat, but now what are you expecting from an MMO? When you think about pure fighting games (Street Fighter, MK, etc), the online mode for those are for an actual fighter and you still get delayed inputs regardless of connection. Now imagine an MMO with 10x the amount of stuff going on trying to make combat more intricate. People would just get ****** off certain things weren't coming out on time or that certain things should of happened that didn't.

I tried Tera, the combat was a bit better, but still bland after 1 hour of doing it. Everyone says the combat is not their cup of tea, though I have yet to see someone come up with an idea to make it better. You can probably get more advanced combat, but I can guarantee you'll be cursing at your monitor every time a certain doesn't come out on time to counter, or cure, or do whatever you wanted it to do.


Honestly? I think it was pretty good during 1.23. Maybe not animation/graphics-wise, but it was pretty good and should have been built upon instead of scrapped for whatever this is, IMO.
#39 Jun 16 2013 at 9:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Herzer wrote:
I still say he is a Troll in disguise. go ahead and rate me down. If you don't like the game don't play, I"m tired of people complaining about every game I like. I realize all games have their problems, but if you don't like them, don't play them. It is really quite simple.


No.

Stating you don't like something and backing up *why* you don't like it with logical reasons is fine, and in fact everyone should be doing so if they feel really strong about something. Asinine statements about nebulous concepts like "generic gearing", "stale combat", and "worthless combinations" doesn't help anyone.

The last thing we need in FFXIV is people telling others to "stop being so negative!" when it's what got us into this mess in the first damned place.

Edited, Jun 16th 2013 11:30pm by Viertel
#40 Jun 16 2013 at 9:34 PM Rating: Default
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SirLuciousLeftfoot wrote:
I read six's comments, and I felt a little confused... I grinded my **** off in that weekend we had, and I only got to a 17 Marauder with an Airship pass, and still didn't get to truly see the other cities... The way you sound, you sound as if you played a little, ran around a little, didn't have gil for gear, didn't like the gear options, and just said to yourself this is average... I was gonna let this post slide because it seems like others have pointed out to you how I feel about the situation, and have covered it nicely, but I felt this had to be said for others, and you to hear.

What I experienced in that beta was pure hard work by Yoshi P... I saw a struggle to level.(which I liked high xp numbers) I saw lustrous environments, and many many many quests to complete. I saw a world with vision, and I just question myself did you get to the hunter's log, did you get high enough to get in on those nice fate battles where you meet strangers fighting together? Did you craft anything? Did you do any story missions? Did you get to the mission where you had to fight the raptors, and everyone was patiently waiting till others pops, and were helping out? The adventure of running through the new lands to figure stuff out...

These are the things that make an MMO tight... The little moments out in the field when you meet people. I had my doubts, I played FFXI for 7 years, and I didn't think that magic could be recreated... I was wrong, I had my doubt about FATE's, but 300 of them just at launch? That's a lot of FATE's. Then on top of that, most of us just kinda saw our starting city(which was beautiful), and the same classes running around, until people started traveling to new lands. ****, I just got to my level to be able to beta test more areas, and more dungeons, witness parties, and guild leves.

Now, I was on a fresh server. I don't know if you were a 1.0 player, and you had a job to do all the later level stuff, but I believe if you did, you wouldn't be trying to ask questions like can I return my pre-order. And if you didn't have a high level job to start, you really didn't see much to form that kind of opinion about the overall state of the game in 2 days. And.... I think we were confused by you stating that comment about returning the game, and then in the same post say at the end, you "hope your wrong"... That was kinda confusing to me. Plus... "major rework"? What kind of major rework? Saying a game needs "major" rework, and only have 3-4 things that your not satisfied with doesn't constitute a major rework... I was suckered into posting in this thread like the rest of us, cause your probably laying on the couch sleep while i'm typing this. LOL

I think you should give the game another chance... Beta test some things you wouldn't normally do, and get in touch with the game as a whole, and what Yoshi-P and the team are trying to pull off and accomplish. I'm by no way saying the game is the best and is perfect, but will it survive? I think so... remember, this is the beta and not even all the areas are open... and... This is the first part of the game... there will be plenty of updates leading up to its first expansion. Plenty more jobs, plenty more future reasons that will later explain the reasons they did certain things now... This is a game that I wouldn't say you could judge until you at least hit level 30 and 15 on multiple classes, and you obtain your first jobs, and really see how things are done. And this is a person who's first experience was this weekend. Only better things will come my friend... :)


Edited, Jun 16th 2013 10:05pm by SirLuciousLeftfoot


You seriously got butthurt over Op's comments Smiley: lol
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#41 Jun 16 2013 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Viertel wrote:
[quote=Herzer]

The last thing we need in FFXIV is people telling others to "stop being so negative!" when it's what got us into this mess in the first damned place.

Edited, Jun 16th 2013 11:30pm by Viertel


Don't agree with your statement here.

Pretty much everyone from Alpha through the betas and on every other gaming forum you could find absolutely slammed version 1. I liked certain aspects of it and got absolutely karma bombed on this site for being upbeat and positive to the extent I have not recovered 2/3 years on.

The problem last time round was NOT community acceptance. It was that SE did not listen. Everyone told SE it was broken, SE ignored them and went ahead and released it anyway. I cannot remember a single significant change from Alpha to release despite the widespread negativity.

For this version of the game, parts of it that are broken, have been generally fixed progressively since alpha and through phases 1 to 3. SE learned their lesson, they are listening.

Many of the complaints that remain un-actioned are a matter of taste rather than fact or design. Perhaps some people don't like certain aspects, but that doesn't mean it is broken, it simply means that a person doesn't like that particular thing. Two days ago the official forums were full of people criticising the game, now there is generally an air of optimism as lots of things have been fixed. Does that mean that everyone will like it? NO. But it does mean it is probably not fundamentally broken (like version 1 was).

As for the OP, this is a clear troll thread that has sucked as all in so well played. I doubt the OP has even purchased pre-order but if he has, I don't expect for one minute he genuinely intends to cancel it. If he was serious about hating the game why not just disappear from forums devoted to the game.
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#42 Jun 16 2013 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I think you all need to relax and chill the **** out for a bit seriously Smiley: dubious The guy made a post, with a critique... GET OVER IT! You are all acting like he shoot your kid or something, spewing troll this troll that, just GTFO! Smiley: lol Seriously guys, is a video game, some people will have different opinions, but you don't gotta go hard after a person's personal character etc etc because he did not like something you do, i mean did he say "Oh i dislike the direction of the game, therefore you are all idiots" or something offensive ?

Also people stop being Hypocrites! Is ok to say the game will be a success after experiencing what ? 20-30% of the entire game ? Has anybody tried PVP ? Endgame ? The full Story ? Please somebody tell me who has done all this in beta ? Nobody!

But if somebody say the total opposite of that, is suddendy turns into: Oh you have not experience the entire game, how can you judge it blablablablabla Smiley: lol

Seriously! Relax guys
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#43 Jun 16 2013 at 9:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
I think you all need to relax and chill the @#%^ out for a bit seriously Smiley: dubious The guy made a post, with a critique... GET OVER IT! You are all acting like he shoot your kid or something, spewing troll this troll that, just GTFO! Smiley: lol Seriously guys, is a video game, some people will have different opinions, but you don't gotta go hard after a person's personal character etc etc because he did not like something you do, i mean did he say "Oh i dislike the direction of the game, therefore you are all idiots" or something offensive ?

Also people stop being Hypocrites! Is ok to say the game will be a success after experiencing what ? 20-30% of the entire game ? Has anybody tried PVP ? Endgame ? The full Story ? Please somebody tell me who has done all this in beta ? Nobody!

But if somebody say the total opposite of that, is suddendy turns into: Oh you have not experience the entire game, how can you judge it blablablablabla Smiley: lol

Seriously! Relax guys



OK, OK, someone has hacked Ostia's account. Who are you and what have you done with Ostia.

Ostia is a big believer in forming opinions based on early beta phases and ramming them down everyone's throat so there is no way you are him :-)
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#44 Jun 16 2013 at 10:31 PM Rating: Decent
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"Here's what you won't find:
You won't find a strong sense of community.
You won't find a lot of players willing to socialize. (Some are truly trying to find bugs or provide useful feedback. Some aren't good at multi-tasking.)
You won't find many players rushing to your aid so expect to die should you bite off more than you can chew. "

Umm what kinda mmo is this? FFXI (and just about EVERY p2p MMO) has ALL that... i hope when you said you wont find thos ethings you actually meant you wont find them in the BETA and not that they wont be found AT ALL
#45 Jun 16 2013 at 10:34 PM Rating: Default
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And this is why my friends betas are nothing more than a free trial. Which is a shame considering since thigns are in beta people seem to think free trial when it's still a game not ready for release. To each their own, not every MMO out there is for everyone. But I'm sure there's a lotta people out there of your same opinion. Even I'm not 100% sold just yet even though I had fun with it. I do think with some of the very glaring issues witht he PS3 version I think it is a huge mistake they are waiting till 0 hour to test the client for it.
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#46 Jun 16 2013 at 10:45 PM Rating: Good
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HallieXIV wrote:
Ostia wrote:
I think you all need to relax and chill the @#%^ out for a bit seriously Smiley: dubious The guy made a post, with a critique... GET OVER IT! You are all acting like he shoot your kid or something, spewing troll this troll that, just GTFO! Smiley: lol Seriously guys, is a video game, some people will have different opinions, but you don't gotta go hard after a person's personal character etc etc because he did not like something you do, i mean did he say "Oh i dislike the direction of the game, therefore you are all idiots" or something offensive ?

Also people stop being Hypocrites! Is ok to say the game will be a success after experiencing what ? 20-30% of the entire game ? Has anybody tried PVP ? Endgame ? The full Story ? Please somebody tell me who has done all this in beta ? Nobody!

But if somebody say the total opposite of that, is suddendy turns into: Oh you have not experience the entire game, how can you judge it blablablablabla Smiley: lol

Seriously! Relax guys



OK, OK, someone has hacked Ostia's account. Who are you and what have you done with Ostia.

Ostia is a big believer in forming opinions based on early beta phases and ramming them down everyone's throat so there is no way you are him :-)


50mil gil or Ostia get's the Knife!

P.S: Transaction will take place on the next beta event, come alone.
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#47 Jun 16 2013 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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You seriously got butthurt over Op's comments Smiley: lol[/quote]

lol at this... and at your last post. I'll pay the 50 mil!!! I just need till Thursday!!! Smiley: tongue
#48 Jun 16 2013 at 10:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Pawkeshup wrote:
OK Six. You are in the Beta. You have concerns. You don't think they are going to get fixed.

So what in the holy @#%^ have you done about it?


The sentiment here is an echo of what has been posted, for over 3 years I might add, on the feedback forums. The potential of the game after adjustments have been made to it should not be taken into account until they come about.

Using the common analogy I use because it seems not to sink in for people...

If you order a steak cooked to medium and the server returns to your table with a raw slab of meat, you would 'provide feedback'. Personally, I'd tell them to take it and **** off until it's done or I'd leave. If they came back several times with it undercooked I wouldn't entertain the notion that I am welcome to pay for the salad bar and some rolls until they can figure out how to cook. Capeesh? It's like you guys are saying he's crazy for not realizing the potential that a raw piece of meat has to be a delicious steak. Who's trolling here? I can't really tell...

He has issues with the game that make him doubtful that it will be completed in a manner satisfactory to him before he's asked to pay for it and he'd like a refund. That doesn't sound like anything else but completely normal to me.

Pawkeshup wrote:
Beta phases can be entirely different than launch.

This is not at all true. Almost any beta test I have been in (up to and including XIV 1.0) were nearly identical to the launch version of the game with a few exceptions. Those exceptions were usually things like level uncapping, area restrictions, additional customization options for menus and other polish like additional quests, NPCs or the like. Beyond closed beta, games usually are just demos.

HallieXIV wrote:
I cannot remember a single significant change from Alpha to release despite the widespread negativity.


The initial battle system was changed, although only slightly, but it was somewhat significant. Other than that, you're right though. It was nearly identical upon release minus a few of the things I listed above.
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#49 Jun 17 2013 at 2:55 AM Rating: Decent
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You pre-ordered a game you haven't played, you knew the risk. You live you learn.

This is just a whine thread in disguise.
#50 Jun 17 2013 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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If you can't get your money back I'm sure you can find a friend that would enjoy playing it. If the point of sale terms said no refunds than no refunds. Simple as that.
#51 Jun 17 2013 at 5:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you haven't paid for it yet I imagine you should be able to cancel.
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