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#1 Jun 16 2013 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I am wondering for those of you who have been playing the beta for the duration, is there anything in this game that won't be easily attainable for everyone? From the beta experience I had, while it was a ton of fun it also seemed like there was little challenge... and given any decent amount of time anything i.e. armor etc etc would be easily attainable.

What I am getting at is, will there be/is there gear or whatever else you can think of that only good/advanced players will be able to achieve?

From reading the beta forums... when people ask "Why are the dungeons so linear?" And SE responds;

"We intentionally designed the leveling dungeons in this manner to prevent the players from being lost. We believe it'll be easier for the newer players to join through duty finder and prevent the experienced players from taking control."

It just seems like they are setting EVERY aspect of the game up for the lowest common denominator.
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#2 Jun 16 2013 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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Good or advanced players got into that position because they had help getting there learning along the way. I'm sure there will be somethings that may seem out of reach for most people, the key part is what are you going to do about it. Most people will whine about it while others work toward it. If you want something really bad don't wait for it to happen. Make it happen!

As far as the dungeons ran my 1st one over the weekend, did I know where to go (had no clue). As you run them more and more you learn them. I'm would like to think they have some crazy ideas on dungeons and raids in the years to come if the game succeeds.
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#3 Jun 16 2013 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Parathyroid wrote:
I am wondering for those of you who have been playing the beta for the duration, is there anything in this game that won't be easily attainable for everyone? From the beta experience I had, while it was a ton of fun it also seemed like there was little challenge... and given any decent amount of time anything i.e. armor etc etc would be easily attainable.

What I am getting at is, will there be/is there gear or whatever else you can think of that only good/advanced players will be able to achieve?

From reading the beta forums... when people ask "Why are the dungeons so linear?" And SE responds;

"We intentionally designed the leveling dungeons in this manner to prevent the players from being lost. We believe it'll be easier for the newer players to join through duty finder and prevent the experienced players from taking control."

It just seems like they are setting EVERY aspect of the game up for the lowest common denominator.


Highlighted the relevant bit for you.

I have been in version 1 since launch, first stage of alpha and all betas but unfortunately I cant really answer your question. THere are a few tricky bits I have faced so far in beta 3 (nothing before this beta was even vaguely difficult)

Yoshi-P has said previously that he is a hardcore MMORPG player, that he wants to make the game accessible but also reward those willing to put time into it. No-one knows what this means yet but apparently if you want to get through the raid progressions at end game it is going to take a **** of a lot of time. I'm pretty sure he mentioned multiple wings to the Bahamut endgame dungeon, each one nigh on impossible without the best endgame gear from other dungeons.

Also, the team that developed ARR have been working on the storyline and endgame in version 1 and some of the encounters there were very difficult. I think only about 400 players got the achievement for killing Van Darnus on hard mode and pretty much everyone tried which depending on who you listen to was about 20,000 players who by their very nature were already fairly hard-core for sticking with the game through its dark days.

This team have a track record of delivering some difficult content - I wou
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#4 Jun 16 2013 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah I'm stuck on a level 14 main story quest. Guarding a Guardian iirc. As a lvl 15 CNJ I got pulped on the 2nd half of the fight lol

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#5 Jun 16 2013 at 9:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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HallieXIV wrote:
This team have a track record of delivering some difficult content - I wou


I'd say they did, the goblins got to you before you could even finish your sta-
#6 Jun 16 2013 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
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Oh there's plenty to still get and do. Even though the dungeons may be linear, the real challenge comes from the battles.

All of the primals drop weapons and items that are still prized in Extreme Mode.
- Ifrit
- Garuda
- Titan
- Odin
- Bahamut
- Ramuh
- King Moogle

That's not even including Dark Light gear, which is the current "end-game" gear. Previously it could only be obtained from speed running dungeons so I'm not sure how those will work.

Edited, Jun 16th 2013 9:42pm by KayannaBigGrr
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#7 Jun 16 2013 at 9:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Viertel wrote:
HallieXIV wrote:
This team have a track record of delivering some difficult content - I wou


I'd say they did, the goblins got to you before you could even finish your sta-


LOL - my brain still shuts down when I think about Van Darnus.

Meant to say "I would wait and see what they have in store for us. At the very least you will have a few weeks/months of fun levelling and then if endgame sucks, you can always quit"
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#8 Jun 16 2013 at 9:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Some of the instanced battles starting at level 10 have really been kicked up a notch. This game is made with easy leveling in mind, but then benchmarks of difficult fights and content to test your skills. I really like that balance. Leveling should be engaging, but casual, just like FFXI was (only without the massive time requirements).
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#9 Jun 16 2013 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Some of the instanced battles starting at level 10 have really been kicked up a notch. This game is made with easy leveling in mind, but then benchmarks of difficult fights and content to test your skills. I really like that balance. Leveling should be engaging, but casual, just like FFXI was (only without the massive time requirements).



I agree with most of what you guys are saying.

I mostly meant to ask... as an example, certain gear in XI was only for the best of the best players... and very few people ever had it.

Will XIV have stuff like this? I always think it's neat when certain players are able to set themselves apart (even though I'm rarely ever one of those players.)
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#10 Jun 16 2013 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
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They have said that they'll have instanced raid content and some open-world fate-style content. What that means is there will be a party/skill gating on some gear, but not a spend three weeks camping a spawn for a low chance of a drop. You might be able to associate certain gears with certain tiers of content, but I wouldn't expect there to be many pieces of intentionally rare gear.
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#11 Jun 16 2013 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I think he is asking about items like Relics. In XI when you had a "Epic" Relic, it was truly epic. World of Warcraft dumbed down this term by making Epic, just a color that everyone has. Relics in XI could take literally years to get to even a hardcore player. My response to this is, no. Sadly. If you have not noticed XIV:ARR has gone the way of completely casual. When casuals cannot have something they make endless threads about it until they can get it as well. You see this in many MMO's and Online Games that have come out of the last 5 years or more.

Forgive me for using the word casualist in a negative manner. I have been one of those casualist myself, however, I also understand that If I cannot put in the time and work to earn something then I don't need it. Work, and Family is no excuse on why you should be better or the same as anyone else who spends 24/7 in a video game.
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#12 Jun 16 2013 at 11:34 PM Rating: Good
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I suppose the closest equipment to what your asking about (things like ffxi relics) would be the relic weapons from 1.0. They are easily obtained in the beta, but in 1.0 you had to defeat ifrit in extreme mode. This was often the part where people gave up on due to either not having a group of people who could put in enough time to learn the fight or the lag just turned people off enough to where they said ***** it. It was a difficult fight on its own. This is completely ignoring the **** we had to go through to get to it.

So far, people have been complaining a lot about how easy the battle system is so far. Yoshi has said many times that he is taking into consideration those players who may be trying out an MMO for the very first time. Think back on the first time you played your first MMO. Did you know anything about anything? He's making the beginning easy to accommodate for the entire range of possible players. Unfortunately, people aren't playing long enough to get to the higher levels of quests available and they decide they don't like it before they ever reach end game.
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#13 Jun 17 2013 at 12:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I think it's pretty hard to say yet in this point. In beta the level cap is what, level 35? So the end game is not yet available in the game. Thats the reason its pretty stupid also to say that the game is too easy. As said before, there will be beginners aswell so it's just good that the beginning of the game isn't that hard yet. And for what I tried, the game actually had at least a bit of a challenge compared to some other MMOs nowadays so thats good. Can't wait till I get to try out some end game raid content and see what they have for us there.
#14 Jun 17 2013 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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What about things like BCNMs where you had to use seals to fight very difficult bosses to gain access to rare gear? Will anything like that be in XIV, or is this not known yet?
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#15 Jun 17 2013 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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Viertel wrote:
HallieXIV wrote:
This team have a track record of delivering some difficult content - I wou


I'd say they did, the goblins got to you before you could even finish your sta-


Smiley: lol This comment is just awesome.
#16 Jun 17 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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KayannaBigGrr wrote:
Oh there's plenty to still get and do. Even though the dungeons may be linear, the real challenge comes from the battles.

All of the primals drop weapons and items that are still prized in Extreme Mode.
- Ifrit
- Garuda
- Titan
- Odin
- Bahamut
- Ramuh
- King Moogle

That's not even including Dark Light gear, which is the current "end-game" gear. Previously it could only be obtained from speed running dungeons so I'm not sure how those will work.

Edited, Jun 16th 2013 9:42pm by KayannaBigGrr


Dark Light gear is actually being lowered a bit, sadly. It's still amazing, but not end-all.

Something to point out here, All the primal Weapons were of the same tier of quality, but served specific purposes, Like Moogle weapons focused on healing yourself and Acc+, Ifrit was +str and dmg, Garuda was crit.

This is important for other players to know because there seems to be a worry of strict tiered gear, when gear is actually very specific and many options exist.

Thayos wrote:
Some of the instanced battles starting at level 10 have really been kicked up a notch. This game is made with easy leveling in mind, but then benchmarks of difficult fights and content to test your skills. I really like that balance. Leveling should be engaging, but casual, just like FFXI was (only without the massive time requirements).


I'm still clicking the space where the Up arrow should be but nothing is happening.

Quote:
Will XIV have stuff like this? I always think it's neat when certain players are able to set themselves apart (even though I'm rarely ever one of those players.)


Absolutely. ****, the White Ravens won't even exist in ARR for new players. I was unable to obtain my own ;;

Garuda weapons were covetted items, as were darklight and Imperial Hats, and Relics.

Additionally, Upgraded Relics, Mythics, Crystal and Bahumut gear will all be highly sought items.

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 11:24am by Louiscool
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#17 Jun 17 2013 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Some of the instanced battles starting at level 10 have really been kicked up a notch. This game is made with easy leveling in mind, but then benchmarks of difficult fights and content to test your skills. I really like that balance. Leveling should be engaging, but casual, just like FFXI was (only without the massive time requirements).

I agree, I have limited time playing the beta (lvl 10 on first character) but I did like the camaraderie of leveling with some parties in XI, I hope there are some opportunities for party EXPing, as I think it also allows you to hone your skills for dungeons, etc.
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#18 Jun 17 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Dumb question perhaps, but they hadn't, as of 1.23, put in anything like merits in yet had they?
#19 Jun 17 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Despite the mentality, pt leveling will occur in 14. There are not enough (and I believe Yoshi has already stated that there is no intention to add enough) quests to get more then 1, maybe 2 classes leveled.

This means dungeon, and exp party grinding. Now the real question will be, are you stuck killing mobs in dungeons, or in the open world. All signs point to endless dungeon raiding. But considering that dungeon raiding is basically the same as o say, going into GC and fighting bats for 17 hours, but now you progress through, get shinies, get kicked out, then go back in.

As for difficulty, the first two dungeon raids are no where near difficult. However, Copperbell lives up to the quest name. You need to know the strat (or learn it as you die), and there is even some stuff added in to catch you off guard, over whelm you, and mis-direct you. All and all, it is a simple figure out the best way to deal with each situation. Learn basic strategies, and adapt as a party. It requires communication, timing, and we found decisive use of Limit Breaks.

- Note to self exp leveling doesn't really make sense when I am talking about pt leveling. Corrected the text.

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 1:36pm by rfolkker
#20 Jun 17 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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rfolkker wrote:
Despite the mentality, exp leveling will occur in 14. There are not enough (and I believe Yoshi has already stated that there is no intention to add enough) quests to get more then 1, maybe 2 classes leveled.

This means dungeon, and exp party grinding. Now the real question will be, are you stuck killing mobs in dungeons, or in the open world. All signs point to endless dungeon raiding. But considering that dungeon raiding is basically the same as o say, going into GC and fighting bats for 17 hours, but now you progress through, get shinies, get kicked out, then go back in.

As for difficulty, the first two dungeon raids are no where near difficult. However, Copperbell lives up to the quest name. You need to know the strat (or learn it as you die), and there is even some stuff added in to catch you off guard, over whelm you, and mis-direct you. All and all, it is a simple figure out the best way to deal with each situation. Learn basic strategies, and adapt as a party. It requires communication, timing, and we found decisive use of Limit Breaks.


Are you purposefully omitting FATEs and Guildleves? FATEs are a VERY viable alternative to dungeon grinds, and grouping on Leves with a few more people and cranking the difficulty to max is also very worthwhile.
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#21 Jun 17 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
Despite the mentality, exp leveling will occur in 14. There are not enough (and I believe Yoshi has already stated that there is no intention to add enough) quests to get more then 1, maybe 2 classes leveled.

This means dungeon, and exp party grinding. Now the real question will be, are you stuck killing mobs in dungeons, or in the open world. All signs point to endless dungeon raiding. But considering that dungeon raiding is basically the same as o say, going into GC and fighting bats for 17 hours, but now you progress through, get shinies, get kicked out, then go back in.

As for difficulty, the first two dungeon raids are no where near difficult. However, Copperbell lives up to the quest name. You need to know the strat (or learn it as you die), and there is even some stuff added in to catch you off guard, over whelm you, and mis-direct you. All and all, it is a simple figure out the best way to deal with each situation. Learn basic strategies, and adapt as a party. It requires communication, timing, and we found decisive use of Limit Breaks.


Are you purposefully omitting FATEs and Guildleves? FATEs are a VERY viable alternative to dungeon grinds, and grouping on Leves with a few more people and cranking the difficulty to max is also very worthwhile.


Not to mention guildhests, hunting log, main storyline quests, class quests, grand company quests, and quests in the 2 other cities you didn't start in... there are PLENTY of ways to level aside from just dungeon grinding.

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 2:23pm by BartelX
#22 Jun 17 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Viertel wrote:
Dumb question perhaps, but they hadn't, as of 1.23, put in anything like merits in yet had they?


Diddn't see anyone answer yet so I'll chime in.

Not as of yet. The merit system was placed in FFXI as a way to increase progression without increasing the level cap - during that period of time that SE was insistant that they would not raise the cap beyond level 75.

Seeming that the level cap is 50, and it will likely be that the level cap will continue to be raised up until level 99, I doubt we will be seeing merits for quite a while.
#23 Jun 17 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
Despite the mentality, exp leveling will occur in 14. There are not enough (and I believe Yoshi has already stated that there is no intention to add enough) quests to get more then 1, maybe 2 classes leveled.

This means dungeon, and exp party grinding. Now the real question will be, are you stuck killing mobs in dungeons, or in the open world. All signs point to endless dungeon raiding. But considering that dungeon raiding is basically the same as o say, going into GC and fighting bats for 17 hours, but now you progress through, get shinies, get kicked out, then go back in.

As for difficulty, the first two dungeon raids are no where near difficult. However, Copperbell lives up to the quest name. You need to know the strat (or learn it as you die), and there is even some stuff added in to catch you off guard, over whelm you, and mis-direct you. All and all, it is a simple figure out the best way to deal with each situation. Learn basic strategies, and adapt as a party. It requires communication, timing, and we found decisive use of Limit Breaks.


Are you purposefully omitting FATEs and Guildleves? FATEs are a VERY viable alternative to dungeon grinds, and grouping on Leves with a few more people and cranking the difficulty to max is also very worthwhile.

Nope, not at all. The Fates and leves are the open world stuff. They just haven't let us see what shinies we get from them.
#24 Jun 17 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Viertel wrote:
Dumb question perhaps, but they hadn't, as of 1.23, put in anything like merits in yet had they?


Diddn't see anyone answer yet so I'll chime in.

Not as of yet. The merit system was placed in FFXI as a way to increase progression without increasing the level cap - during that period of time that SE was insistant that they would not raise the cap beyond level 75.

Seeming that the level cap is 50, and it will likely be that the level cap will continue to be raised up until level 99, I doubt we will be seeing merits for quite a while.


Technically the inclusion of jobs takes care of some of these aspects. As they can now just add quests in at any level for a job to unlock new abilities or job related bonuses without raising the level cap. With that being said, the game is WAY too young to worry about that. We still get the customizable ability points when leveling classes (specific to the class/job that we get them with).
#25 Jun 17 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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rfolkker wrote:
Wint wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
Despite the mentality, exp leveling will occur in 14. There are not enough (and I believe Yoshi has already stated that there is no intention to add enough) quests to get more then 1, maybe 2 classes leveled.

This means dungeon, and exp party grinding. Now the real question will be, are you stuck killing mobs in dungeons, or in the open world. All signs point to endless dungeon raiding. But considering that dungeon raiding is basically the same as o say, going into GC and fighting bats for 17 hours, but now you progress through, get shinies, get kicked out, then go back in.

As for difficulty, the first two dungeon raids are no where near difficult. However, Copperbell lives up to the quest name. You need to know the strat (or learn it as you die), and there is even some stuff added in to catch you off guard, over whelm you, and mis-direct you. All and all, it is a simple figure out the best way to deal with each situation. Learn basic strategies, and adapt as a party. It requires communication, timing, and we found decisive use of Limit Breaks.


Are you purposefully omitting FATEs and Guildleves? FATEs are a VERY viable alternative to dungeon grinds, and grouping on Leves with a few more people and cranking the difficulty to max is also very worthwhile.

Nope, not at all. The Fates and leves are the open world stuff. They just haven't let us see what shinies we get from them.


Pretty much gil, some items, Grand Company Points. Also, the very first guildleve I did resulted in a random treasure chest with dungeon armor inside (they have pink backgrounds on their thumbnail to indicated they're rare) Smiley: laugh Oh and XP of course.
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#26 Jun 17 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
Wint wrote:
rfolkker wrote:
Despite the mentality, exp leveling will occur in 14. There are not enough (and I believe Yoshi has already stated that there is no intention to add enough) quests to get more then 1, maybe 2 classes leveled.

This means dungeon, and exp party grinding. Now the real question will be, are you stuck killing mobs in dungeons, or in the open world. All signs point to endless dungeon raiding. But considering that dungeon raiding is basically the same as o say, going into GC and fighting bats for 17 hours, but now you progress through, get shinies, get kicked out, then go back in.

As for difficulty, the first two dungeon raids are no where near difficult. However, Copperbell lives up to the quest name. You need to know the strat (or learn it as you die), and there is even some stuff added in to catch you off guard, over whelm you, and mis-direct you. All and all, it is a simple figure out the best way to deal with each situation. Learn basic strategies, and adapt as a party. It requires communication, timing, and we found decisive use of Limit Breaks.


Are you purposefully omitting FATEs and Guildleves? FATEs are a VERY viable alternative to dungeon grinds, and grouping on Leves with a few more people and cranking the difficulty to max is also very worthwhile.

Nope, not at all. The Fates and leves are the open world stuff. They just haven't let us see what shinies we get from them.


Pretty much gil, some items, Grand Company Points. Also, the very first guildleve I did resulted in a random treasure chest with dungeon armor inside (they have pink backgrounds on their thumbnail to indicated they're rare) Smiley: laugh Oh and XP of course.

Bah, never made it into the GC, and I forgot leves have their chests back. But fates are still not giving item rewards that I have seen or heard (Barometz did not give me my weapon)

On a side note, my wife ran into an old favorite of ours that had me laughing for a while... Bubbly Bernie has risen from the depths of FFXI into 14.
#27 Jun 17 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're right, no item rewards for FATEs as of yet. Mostly XP, Gil, and of course GC points which can be converted into some nice Armor/Weapons and more importantly a Chocobo License Smiley: nod
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#28 Jun 17 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
You're right, no item rewards for FATEs as of yet. Mostly XP, Gil, and of course GC points which can be converted into some nice Armor/Weapons and more importantly a Chocobo License Smiley: nod


Smiley: drool ...must ...get.
#29 Jun 17 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Wint wrote:
You're right, no item rewards for FATEs as of yet. Mostly XP, Gil, and of course GC points which can be converted into some nice Armor/Weapons and more importantly a Chocobo License Smiley: nod


Smiley: drool ...must ...get.


It absolutely transforms the game to me. So much fun to go FATE hunting with a group of others, we were doing that in Phase 2. Do a FATE, everyone calls up their birds and we move in a herd across the zone to another FATE going on. Feels like a biker gang Smiley: laugh
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