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Is this really the extent of XIV endgame?Follow

#27 Jun 19 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Good point about that, I was concerned when I heard they were adding the circles also, (and for a single mob it was easymode) but I happened across a FATE that was amazing! It was a goblin rush attack, and there were bombs EVERYWHERE. Sure, you saw the circles, but sometimes you'd get out of one and run straight into two others. There were goblins everywhere, some attacking, most bombing, it was awesome. I hope not everything gets big flashing warning lights, but it's nice to see even early level stuff that isn't just a train of mobs waiting for execution.
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#28 Jun 19 2013 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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Nope, not everything does, just(most) attacks that center around the mob doing the ability (not sure if they are adding more, as the circles are new). You can still see the progress bar of an attack you should avoid, or spell casts. So you need to use those. But I love the circles, as a tank it gives you a great way to know when you have gone too far. But at the same time, the lack of an indicator is also fun. Determining the first time if you need to get out of range, or if you can just run behind the mob...

Personally, I think they have a perfect balance between letting you know you need to move, and where you need to move to. And yeah, the fact that there are times where running from one attack leads you into a lot more (pretty much any fate) adds to the challenge.

-Edited, yeah, there is also a spit attack by a mob that centers around a target. Conal attacks don't have an indicator.

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 9:49am by rfolkker
#29 Jun 19 2013 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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The goblin bombs were definitely not centered on the goblins, but I can't think of any other aoe attacks that didn't have an indicator. I did notice some weaponskills with cast times and no visual warning, so that was good.
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#30 Jun 19 2013 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, Kobold attacks showed up too, it seems like most circular AOE attacks show up.
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#31 Jun 19 2013 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:
I've heard that endgame in 1.0 was challenging and showed a lot of promise. Some guy was bashing other MMOs saying that the bosses in games like WoW and Rift were simple and the game was made for kids compared to the "tactical fights" in FF MMOs. . He then provided this link ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unpWwn00mJs

It's apparently the Ifrit fight. Has this dude played any other games? What the **** kind of a boss fight is that? That is tactical?

I'm really looking forward to ARR regardless for many other reasons. In fact, I don't really expect much of an endgame out of it. I just want to enjoy Eorzea and goof around really, but these polarized FF nuts really need to get their heads out of their asses and take a look around once in a while.

*Just to clarify, I am in no way putting down anyone's accomplishments in 1.0, nor am I putting the fight down. I'm just looking for feedback on what the legacy players view as challenging and/or tactical.

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 2:30am by Transmigration


It is an absolute fact that FF XI boss fights required careful planning and strategy... This can't be denied, and I won't even entertain a conversation to the contrary (specifically regarding BCNMs and the such.)

I don't think a mainstream MMO will ever have boss fights like that again.
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#32 Jun 19 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is what confused me the most, because from the videos I've seen, the actual mechanics looked very simple and easy to overcome.

Know what? The mechanics of flying a fighter jet look easy and simple to overcome on youtube.
#33 Jun 19 2013 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Transmigration wrote:
I've heard that endgame in 1.0 was challenging and showed a lot of promise. Some guy was bashing other MMOs saying that the bosses in games like WoW and Rift were simple and the game was made for kids compared to the "tactical fights" in FF MMOs. . He then provided this link ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unpWwn00mJs

It's apparently the Ifrit fight. Has this dude played any other games? What the **** kind of a boss fight is that? That is tactical?

I'm really looking forward to ARR regardless for many other reasons. In fact, I don't really expect much of an endgame out of it. I just want to enjoy Eorzea and goof around really, but these polarized FF nuts really need to get their heads out of their asses and take a look around once in a while.

*Just to clarify, I am in no way putting down anyone's accomplishments in 1.0, nor am I putting the fight down. I'm just looking for feedback on what the legacy players view as challenging and/or tactical.

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 2:30am by Transmigration


That was Ifrit "Hard Mode", the level 30 one is ifrit "Easy Mode" and the one for the relic quest is ifrit "Extreme". As ifrit was the first content put in the game (besides the extreme mode) he is obviously gonna be one of the easier fights, and many people could solo whm him depending on how the rest of the party did dodging attacks. Things like moogles were hard at first until you knew how to do it...then came garuda....HM Darnus was one of the trickier fights to figure out. Not to mention dungeons AV/CC just learning to clear those took people a while then getting in to 17min speed runs for the relic quest made them even harder. Dont judge ARR's endgame before its released because Yoshi said that labrynth and crystal tower are going to be harder than the HM darnus fight to figure out.
#34 Jun 19 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Ifrit is really hard if you don't know what you're doing. It takes 2-3 integral people to mess up to completely fail the fight.

There are times when we beat him in 8 minutes with our eyes closed, and there are pickup runs that I've tried to help with that didn't run away from eruptions properly or even worse, run the eruptions to the White Mages.

Solo healing Ifrit is impressive, because if that one WHM gets hit by Eruption, they have to move out of the way for a little while, leaving the tank to fend for himself. We always brought 2 WHMs to our Ifrit runs.One on each side so the tank was properly kept up to fill.
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#35 Jun 19 2013 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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correct me if im wrong but this is beta.. they dnt have the ACTUAL endgame in yet.. I mean wheres the crystal tower for example? can you do that in the beta?
#36 Jun 19 2013 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
correct me if im wrong but this is beta.. they dnt have the ACTUAL endgame in yet.. I mean wheres the crystal tower for example? can you do that in the beta?


Nope!
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#37 Jun 19 2013 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
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This is what confused me the most, because from the videos I've seen, the actual mechanics looked very simple and easy to overcome.

Know what? The mechanics of flying a fighter jet look easy and simple to overcome on youtube.


Not even within the same realm of difficulty. A fighter jet pilot can watch another pilot perform a maneuver and say "That was easy", because he's a ******* jet pilot. Well, if someone who has taken part in countless boss fights over the last 10 years watches a boss fight on youtube, I think that person can pretty well judge the difficulty of an encounter.

Anyway, people have brought up some good information here. Thanks for the feedback.
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#38 Jun 19 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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Transmigration wrote:
Well, if someone who has taken part in countless boss fights over the last 10 years watches a boss fight on youtube, I think that person can pretty well judge the difficulty of an encounter.



Only to a certain extent. Keep in mind that the underlining aspects of the game were pretty different, not to mention the whole mess was put on a highly flawed framework. 'Latency issues' Wasn't just lag, but essentially a delay on everything, including actions taken on both player and computer's end.

I'm interested in seeing how Hard Mode Ifrit changes, honestly. Yeah, we've seen the level 30 version, but I wonder if hard mode includes moves we do not entirely expect, or uses them at a pace much faster than before.

Somehow I have this sinking feeling that Ifrit will be harder and Garuda easier to the point that they're more or less on the same level of difficulty.
#39 Jun 19 2013 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Only to a certain extent. Keep in mind that the underlining aspects of the game were pretty different, not to mention the whole mess was put on a highly flawed framework. 'Latency issues' Wasn't just lag, but essentially a delay on everything, including actions taken on both player and computer's end.


I know I won't miss the "skill" it took. "Ok, so what you do is DON'T ws until you see Ifrit do a TP move, or else you'll get locked and die."
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#40 Jun 19 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm fairly confident that every raid boss is easy, given that your group can pay attention. There's never been an encounter that couldn't be overcome except by raw gear checks or broken mechanics. Not in WoW, Rift, FFXI, or any other game have the "pros" not been able to crush the content. The issue of end game content is not difficulty, but rewarding the player: knowing that they did pay attention, they did contribute, that it's not a broken mess that simply cannot be beaten because of mechanics or technical limitations. There has never been an encounter I couldn't get the jist of after a few attempts, but that doesn't mean that everyone does...therein comes the problem, the players themselves.
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#41 Jun 19 2013 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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I think the end game will be good!
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#42 Jun 19 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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Krycis wrote:
I'm fairly confident that every raid boss is easy, given that your group can pay attention. There's never been an encounter that couldn't be overcome except by raw gear checks or broken mechanics. Not in WoW, Rift, FFXI, or any other game have the "pros" not been able to crush the content. The issue of end game content is not difficulty, but rewarding the player: knowing that they did pay attention, they did contribute, that it's not a broken mess that simply cannot be beaten because of mechanics or technical limitations. There has never been an encounter I couldn't get the jist of after a few attempts, but that doesn't mean that everyone does...therein comes the problem, the players themselves.

Very much this. All encounters performed by a group of people, once learned, are easy. The question is, is it enjoyable? Does it make you stand there and attack endlessly and mindlessly or is there something to make you pay attention? Are the mechanics between fights varied? When my group first went into Ifrit, we died. When we went in 100 tries later it was only frustrating that everyone didn't have ALL the weapons yet. Somewhere in between there was learning, trial, and a mix of teaching new people the fight. Ifrit wasn't terribly hard, but as a first raid boss encounter in the entire game, was pretty decent.
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#43 Jun 19 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Not to mention that WHM in that movie has a relic weapon. They know their stuff.

Edit: Wait, never mind he doesn't. I'm just blind.

Edited, Jun 19th 2013 10:44am by UltKnightGrover
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#44 Jun 19 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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I felt like the Ifrit and Garuda fights in 1.x were quite challenging. You really had to have experience to complete them. Couldn't go in with just the mentality of tank tanks, healer heals and DPS unloads and we'll be fine. There were quite a few variables(on top of latency and animation lock issues) you had to worry about. Had to really pay attention to positioning and what the bosses were doing. They felt like fights that a random PUG couldn't complete unless everyone had done it multiple times before.

Same with the Nael Van Darnus fight(just story mode, I never even tried hard mode). It felt quite involved and challenging with a lot of moving parts to pay attention to. These fights to me felt like encounters that you would need to repeat a few times to learn until you eventually beat it and a few more times later you master.

That's how endgame should be. It should be encounters that you have to experience and learn for a while until you can master it. It shouldn't be encounters that you can clear within a couple weeks. That is one of the things that doomed SWTOR. The first few raids could be mastered in a couple weeks and cleared literally in a couple hours. Based on at least the Ifrit, Garuda and NVD fights in 1.0, I am confident that The Crystal Tower and Bahamut's lair or whatever it is will require a focused a group at least a month or 2 to clear and master. Of course assuming they don't raid 7 days a week.
#45 Jun 19 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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So we're complaining about the endgame of a game that doesn't have endgame yet. Cool.
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#46 Jun 19 2013 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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By the way, I can't look at youtube right now, but is that the video of the lv30 Ifrit fight or the actual endgame Ifrit fight?
#47 Jun 19 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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Anakte wrote:
The goblin bombs were definitely not centered on the goblins, but I can't think of any other aoe attacks that didn't have an indicator. I did notice some weaponskills with cast times and no visual warning, so that was good.


I think just about all the AoE attacks have an indicator, but many of the spells or other WS that enemies used didn't, other than the spell animation or the charging animation. For instance, Peistes had two different moves. One was a conal Paralyze move which was only signified by a charging animation of the Peiste, whereas body slam had the AoE ring. I like this, because it really keeps you on your toes and makes you focus more on watching the mob for its tells, which make combat loads more interesting and fun imo. I hope this gets even more pronounced at higher levels.
#48 Jun 19 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also I noticed that cone shaped attacks (like the Gnats Thunderstrike or whatever that paralyze move is called) is totally dodgeable as well, but like BartelX said you can just keep an eye for when the charging gauge appears.
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#49 Jun 19 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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I know the End boss in copperbell was not showing any area, and neither was the end boss in TamTara. I don't remember the boss is sastasha though. The demon in Duty, Honor had one move that showed an aoe and another that did not. But, my wife found out that I could run behind the Boss in copperbell (which helped on our third attempt against him, as the second attempt I kept lossing hate to her, since she could keep hitting, and I kept ending up out of range).
#50 Jun 19 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
So we're complaining about the endgame of a game that doesn't have endgame yet. Cool.


Actually it looks like the initial thing was complaining about an endgame for a game that no longer exists.
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#51 Jun 19 2013 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
So we're complaining about the endgame of a game that doesn't have endgame yet. Cool.


Actually it looks like the initial thing was complaining about an endgame for a game that no longer exists.

I think its more like complaining about people who keep saying that FFXIV 1.0 had a really strategic and hard endgame while probably even dissing some other games' endgame.

Anyhoo, its impossible to say what ARRs endgame is like. I think the dungeons could be thought as a some kind of indication on which way they will be going with the end game, but still its impossible to say before we actually get to try it out. I kinda trust that they will be able to make some enjoyable endgame for this game and im really looking forward to it.
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