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#1 Jun 23 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know if it's too early to start theory crafting or not but I'm going to anyway.

While running dungeons I noticed that other tanks had 100-150 HP more than my Duskwight Elzen. I realize now that Vitality directly increases your max HP, and that Duskwights have less base VIT than most races. I have been putting all of my bonus points into Strength at level ups instead of Vitality like everyone else because I know that it increases mitigation and indirectly enmity. The damage reduction seemed noticeable to me as it seemed like I didn't take quite as much damage as other tanks.

What I was thinking is that perhaps GLA is meant to be more of a mitigation tank while MAR is meant to be an HP tank. In other games Mitigation has always been better than just stacking HP except in cases where massive burst damage is caused. I suppose high HP would also be good for Caster enemies until Resistance gear is viable.

I know that the end result will be some sort of balance between the stats, but as Materia use becomes more commonplace this will definitely be something to consider. I for one will probably lean more toward Strength than Vitality.


Oh poo and there is Mind/Piety too.. whichever increases magic resistance... fun fun XD.
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#2 Jun 23 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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DamienSScott wrote:
I don't know if it's too early to start theory crafting or not but I'm going to anyway.

While running dungeons I noticed that other tanks had 100-150 HP more than my Duskwight Elzen. I realize now that Vitality directly increases your max HP, and that Duskwights have less base VIT than most races. I have been putting all of my bonus points into Strength at level ups instead of Vitality like everyone else because I know that it increases mitigation and indirectly enmity. The damage reduction seemed noticeable to me as it seemed like I didn't take quite as much damage as other tanks.

What I was thinking is that perhaps GLA is meant to be more of a mitigation tank while MAR is meant to be an HP tank. In other games Mitigation has always been better than just stacking HP except in cases where massive burst damage is caused. I suppose high HP would also be good for Caster enemies until Resistance gear is viable.

I know that the end result will be some sort of balance between the stats, but as Materia use becomes more commonplace this will definitely be something to consider. I for one will probably lean more toward Strength than Vitality.


Oh poo and there is Mind/Piety too.. whichever increases magic resistance... fun fun XD.


Are you sure that's not just the result of having higher defense gear? Usually, vitality is the stat that improves defense. If it's really strength, there are going to be some pretty major balance issues as far as stats go. Vitality would be pretty much worthless.
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#3 Jun 23 2013 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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DamienSScott wrote:
Oh poo and there is Mind/Piety too.. whichever increases magic resistance... fun fun XD.


Except that neither affects magic damage intake at all, nor does INT.

FrozenSherbet wrote:
Are you sure that's not just the result of having higher defense gear? Usually, vitality is the stat that improves defense. If it's really strength, there are going to be some pretty major balance issues as far as stats go. Vitality would be pretty much worthless.


STR, DEX, and VIT will all be tank stats for a Gladiator. STR affects the amount you negate on a block/parry, DEX affects the rate at which you block/parry, and VIT affects the health.

Going to need a balance of all three.
#4 Jun 23 2013 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Viertel wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Are you sure that's not just the result of having higher defense gear? Usually, vitality is the stat that improves defense. If it's really strength, there are going to be some pretty major balance issues as far as stats go. Vitality would be pretty much worthless.


STR, DEX, and VIT will all be tank stats for a Gladiator. STR affects the amount you negate on a block/parry, DEX affects the rate at which you block/parry, and VIT affects the health.

Going to need a balance of all three.


Thanks, that makes more sense. When he said mitigation, I thought he meant across the board. I knew something wasn't right there–it just happened to be my comprehension skills.
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#5 Jun 23 2013 at 5:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Viertel wrote:
Except that neither affects magic damage intake at all, nor does INT.


Fair enough, I thought I saw that one of them would. It sure would be nice to be able to mouse over the stats and see what they do. Hopefully they change that for release.

Thanks for the clarification on STR and DEX. the info I was seeing was saying that DEX was just Parry chance. I still think I'll lean more toward STR and DEX on GLA/PLD though. It's going to be fun trying to figure out a nice balance. So far there isn't a ton of high spike damage except on bosses and most of them will one shot you anyway. I feel the mitigation helps a lot more on groups of mobs than just stacking vitality. Having high HP doesn't really help your healer that much if they are on the ball.
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#6 Jun 23 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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If block and parry have diminishing returns, DEX will not be an attractive stat.
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#7 Jun 23 2013 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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TurboTom wrote:
If block and parry have diminishing returns, DEX will not be an attractive stat.

Depends on how harsh the DR curve is. Usually there is (up to a certain point) exceedingly good value for the stat.

I like the implications of multiple 'key" stats. It opens the possibility of different build/gear options (although there will always be a theorycrafted "optimal" distribution), and multiple tanking styles, as seen between GLD/PLD & MRD/WAR.
#8 Jun 23 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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All this aside, I really enjoyed tanking as a GLA. They give you plenty of tools by the time you gain dungeon access to deal with any sort of tanking situation. Threat levels are solid, but not overwhelming to the point where someone couldn't pull off you if you run out of tp/mp. As long as the DPS attack your target, flashing once or twice is more than enough to hold threat on other mobs. Even if the DPS splits targets I've found that switching targets for a Savage blade and flashing is plenty to keep all mobs on you. Oh, and Shield Lob is awesome!

Too bad GLA's cure is so weak. I hope that PLD will be able to cure for more.
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#9 Jun 23 2013 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
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DamienSScott wrote:
All this aside, I really enjoyed tanking as a GLA. They give you plenty of tools by the time you gain dungeon access to deal with any sort of tanking situation. Threat levels are solid, but not overwhelming to the point where someone couldn't pull off you if you run out of tp/mp. As long as the DPS attack your target, flashing once or twice is more than enough to hold threat on other mobs. Even if the DPS splits targets I've found that switching targets for a Savage blade and flashing is plenty to keep all mobs on you. Oh, and Shield Lob is awesome!

Too bad GLA's cure is so weak. I hope that PLD will be able to cure for more.


Not to say this make or break but there was a legacy PLD complaining about cure doing 3-400 per hit when his HP was 4500 (I believe)

Im hoping it gets balanced out.

That being said, I was pretty bored tanking on my Glad/pug (pug because at low level you get an evasion buff) -plenty of abilities to keep enmity but it was rather dull for myself.

Also, there was a marauder I was partied with that had about 200 more hp than myself and was only 1 level higher. And all my points had gone into vit while the marauder had been taking str.


Edited, Jun 23rd 2013 9:05pm by sixstroke
#10 Jun 23 2013 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
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sixstroke wrote:

Not to say this make or break but there was a legacy PLD complaining about cure doing 3-400 per hit when his HP was 4500 (I believe)

Im hoping it gets balanced out.

That being said, I was pretty bored tanking on my Glad/pug (pug because at low level you get an evasion buff) -plenty of abilities to keep enmity but it was rather dull for myself.

Also, there was a marauder I was partied with that had about 200 more hp than myself and was only 1 level higher. And all my points had gone into vit while the marauder had been taking str.


Honestly I got pretty bored soloing GLA as well. I tried tanking FATES but no one would cure me and I would end up having to run or die >.<.
I ended up leveling all the jobs enough to get the low level buffs and it was pretty nice running with the defensive buffs from PUG MRD and LNC.

Hopefully cure does get a boost, otherwise I don't see it being worth it. It might be okay for a hate grab if you heal someone taking damage, but using it on yourself for less than 10% of your max hp is terrible.
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#11 Jun 23 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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DamienSScott wrote:
Viertel wrote:
Except that neither affects magic damage intake at all, nor does INT.


Fair enough, I thought I saw that one of them would. It sure would be nice to be able to mouse over the stats and see what they do. Hopefully they change that for release.


Agreed. They definitely need tooltips for the stats so that we know what they affect.
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#12 Jun 23 2013 at 9:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here's the thing I felt like in earlier renditions of Glad. I had difficulty with threat and the cure was kinda meh. Spamming flash was the best AoE threat mechanic, but also caused a quick drain on MP. Imo, I'd consider using cure as a solo stat, something to keep you afloat. And something to also consider is going for higher health and lower mitigation. You'll charge the limit break meter faster if you're closer to dead when you're healed. So if you have a huge health pool by investing points and materia into vit/hp, then you'll be taking more damage, but the cures will charge the meter faster, resulting in faster L2/L3 limit breaks. The limit breaks I saw: DPS Rs 1 & 2 and tank R1 were all pretty awesome. As a conjurer, I really had no problem keeping tanks up. The only issues I'd have were random people taking damage that weren't supposed to, and I only lost one person through three dungeons, and that's only because he didn't get away from the bomb in the Jelly boss in the second dungeon.
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#13 Jun 23 2013 at 10:34 PM Rating: Good
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desmar wrote:
The only issues I'd have were random people taking damage that weren't supposed to, and I only lost one person through three dungeons, and that's only because he didn't get away from the bomb in the Jelly boss in the second dungeon.


Haha, that happened to me as well, only it was the tank that barely got hit by the bomb. It wasn't really a problem though since the slimes were slow and so little damage goes out anyway.
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#14 Jun 23 2013 at 11:08 PM Rating: Good
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Paladin had Holy Succor which was a fairly respectable healing spell in 1.0. Seems to have been taken out, and the cross-class Cure does need quite a tweak incase I need to toss an emergency heal or two.
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#15 Jun 23 2013 at 11:46 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Paladin had Holy Succor which was a fairly respectable healing spell in 1.0. Seems to have been taken out, and the cross-class Cure does need quite a tweak incase I need to toss an emergency heal or two.

I thought Holy Succor was a quested spell. If it is, it could still be there, just not accessable, because we can't quest it yet.
#16 Jun 24 2013 at 12:08 AM Rating: Good
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That could be. It's not up on XIVDB.com, but neither is anything on Arcanist, Summoner, or Scholar. They have quested abilities on there for the Classes, but I'm not sure if it's missing any more beyond the level 15 quest abilities. I didn't think to cross-check their lists with the in-game lists.
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#17 Jun 24 2013 at 12:30 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Fair enough, I thought I saw that one of them would. It sure would be nice to be able to mouse over the stats and see what they do. Hopefully they change that for release.

Alternatively, one could read the manual.
Page 2, right below the battle section.

Quote:
I feel the mitigation helps a lot more on groups of mobs than just stacking vitality.

STR affects only shield block mitigation, and you rarely block.
Read the manual.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 2:32am by Rinsui
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