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Stat allocation systemFollow

#1 Jun 24 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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So now that I can talk about this with people, I'd like to get people's opinions on the stat allocation system.

For those unfamiliar, starting at level 10, you're awarded extra points to put into your base stats (STR, DEX, etc). I've only reached level 16 myself, but it seems like you get a point every level starting at 10.

What do you think of this system?

What do you think of stat allocation?
Love it:9 (13.8%)
It's fine:25 (38.5%)
Don't care:11 (16.9%)
Don't like it:11 (16.9%)
Kill it with fire:9 (13.8%)
Total:65


Please explain why you selected what you did. I'll wait a while before I give my own opinion.
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#2 Jun 24 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think it's fine. I like the idea of being able to slightly customize my character, while keeping it reasonable (unlike 1.0). I like being able to pump in some extra str on my DPS classes. I'm not sure if it's incorporated yet, but the ability to reset these when you want to change classes is pretty important imo. Also, being able to save certain builds would be quite nice, especially at 50 when you've got 40 points to throw in. It still wouldn't be nearly as cumbersome as 1.0, but I wouldn't mind that little convenience.

I do wish there were tool tips in-game to tell you what each stat did though.
#3 Jun 24 2013 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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The stat point bonuses help compensate for the racial modifiers. They don't provide a significant boost, so they don't throw off the balance. But it does make it so that a Rogydin can be a mage as well as a lala can be a tank without having the same stat complaints that 11 had in the beginning.

However, there are a lot of people in the official forums that are complaining about these not being a merit point system. Which in my opinion is fine. That's what Jobs do. They provide significant bonuses to classes through abilities and trait modifiers as you "Level" your job. Leveling a job is done not only by leveling a class, but by completing quests.

This IMHO provides a fairly dynamic ability for the game to develop more not only through the addition of higher level caps, but by providing new quests to gain new abilities for Jobs, and thereby make them even stronger without needing to level. Those bonuses then would follow your job as you level it's primary and secondary classes (obviously the leveling of the secondary classes would not directly benefit, but the benefits of secondary classes compile against the benefits of the primary based on the abilities you choose).
#4 Jun 24 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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My answer was a resounding "meh".
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#5 Jun 24 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Feels like a system carry-over from 1.0 that didn't get revamped because it would have drained too many resources.

Would it be nice to have a better customization system in place? Obviously. Who doesn't want better stuff?

Is it necessary right now? Not in my opinion.
#6 Jun 24 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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I think it's every other level after the initial 3 you get at level 10.

I think it could stand to be improved upon, but it's not dire. A little lackluster, but kindof nice to at least have the option.
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#7 Jun 24 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd be fine with it if there was a way to reallocate points. I'm not saying I should have the option to do reallocate every time I change jobs, but if I decide that, after getting my blm to 50, I want to take mrd from 1 to 50, it would be nice not to have 20 points in int and piety.
#8 Jun 24 2013 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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It should be noted that I did some checking on this in phase 2, and at least at that time the stat points you allocated were on a per-job basis. So your conjurer can have one set of stat points and your archer had another.

I don't have a second class above 10 in p3, so I don't know if that's continued.
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#9 Jun 24 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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This was one of the things that made Dark Souls interesting. If you chose to level up, you'd get one stat allocation per level. This meant you couldn't get everything for your character and you had to decide what was important. It also meant if you wanted to try something different (using heavy weapons instead of mage spells for example), you had to start a new character because there was no way to undo stat allocation.

I'm not sure how well it will work in a game like FFXIV however. Classes are a lot less customizable than they were in the past and a lot more specialized. I don't know if there is much point in a mage having the option to choose more strength, for example, if each class gets its own separate allocation of stats. Mages (magi?) are so poor at physical combat it seems more like a booby trap than a feature that offers a legitimate choice.
#10 Jun 24 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Each job has it's own set of stats. So you don't have to worry about switching between DoM and DoW classes and having your stats be all cold bass honky.

The merit though is a bit lackluster as they've separated core damage dealing DoM and DoW spells which means little to most classes other than tanks who might benefit from diminishing returns in dex, str, and vit. The drawback to stat allocation (especially one without a reset via gil/items) is that it penalizes players early on who don't know what the outcome will be. You won't notice that +3 mind now, but maybe at 50 you'll be regretting it when that 3 mind scales completely differently than it does at lvl 12. The last thing a new player needs is to be kicked from a dungeon because he spent his points wrong and there's nothing within the system to fix that other than starting a whole new character.
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#11 Jun 24 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
It should be noted that I did some checking on this in phase 2, and at least at that time the stat points you allocated were on a per-job basis. So your conjurer can have one set of stat points and your archer had another.

I don't have a second class above 10 in p3, so I don't know if that's continued.

I leveled a variety of classes this past weekend and that looked to be the case. A separate set of attributes for each class rather than 1 global one.
#12 Jun 24 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have a feeling that they will allow you to re-allocate points in the release version for a fee. Seeing as how they have the button for it and want several gil-sinks in the game.
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#13 Jun 24 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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A reset button is needed for a system like that to thrive. There needs to be incentive for players to mix stats around and create different builds. If it's a one-stop-shop to 50, there are fewer opportunities to experiment, and the outcomes will be all but pre-determined meaning there really isn't a choice in the equation.

I suspect we'll see it in the form of an increasing fee. Like maybe 100gil first time, 1000 gil 2nd, 10,000 gil 3rd, with the "counter" resetting with a month in the current set of stats.
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#14 Jun 24 2013 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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They seem to have just chucked this in for people to feel like they're customising their characters to make them unique with little explaination of how much the change in stats will actually do.
#15 Jun 24 2013 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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They added a feature towards the end of 1.0 where there was an item that you were given when you completed all your job quests. That Item could be used to trigger a point reset.

The reset in the UI is for active changes. So, if you allocate a bunch of points, but decide you want to change, you can click the reset, and the points re-pooled. Once you apply your point changes, the points become fixed.

Yoshi had previously stated that there would be ways of obtaining more of the point reset item, but it never made it in 1.0... So, it could be speculated that they planned on continuing the system that way in ARR.
#16 Jun 24 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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So this seems like a reasonable number of replies before I post my own opinion. And the poll at this point is almost dead even on all the choices... which is interesting too.

Personally, I hate this system. The reason I hate it is because it's nothing but a trap. The only thing it can accomplish is making new players bad at their jobs.

Think about it.. let's say I'm playing a DRG. I'm a dps, my job has no other roles, therefore if I spend my points on anything other than maximizing my damage, I'm doing it wrong. But how do I even do that? Well I'd need to know how much damage each point of a stat translates into, and then pick the highest one.. but what if certain stats benefit different abilities differently? So now I have to maximize around a rotation that is going to change as I level up. My skills and dps rotation at level 50 are going to be entirely different than my rotation at level 15.

Especially with no way to fix it except re-rolling. Though that's a fairly mundane problem to solve. This entire system is a relic of 1.0, and it was bad then too.

This gets even more ridiculous when you consider that future patches will buff and nerf abilities over time, so the ideal stat distribution will actually change as the game ages.
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#17 Jun 24 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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How many points do you have to play with at level 50? At level 15 you have 5, not a lot to invest. My thoughts are that it's OK, it gives you something to muck about with, but it's not a compelling system. If you're a min/maxer then yes, you'll want to dump all your points into something, but maybe...just maybe...there will be enough gear to offset your choices. So you can be a THM and drop most of the points into INT, but with mixing and matching gear/materia you're not gimped playing your GLD. So I voted "fine" until I see what's out there at level 50.
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#18 Jun 24 2013 at 4:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
How many points do you have to play with at level 50?

30 total. Little enough to make no difference. And enough to give you the illusion that, intheory, you could put those points into
- something else than MND as a conjurer
- something else than INT as a thaumaturge
- something else than STR as a melee class and
- something else than DEX as an archer.

People love the illusion of choice, as long as the system ensures that no wrong choices are possible.
#19 Jun 24 2013 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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I think it's just ok. It's nice to have something to personaize your character a little more but I do wish that they would tell you what the primary stats are that your class uses because newcomers to MMOs might be easily confused without a detailed account of what exatly each stat does.
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#20 Jun 24 2013 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
How many points do you have to play with at level 50?

30 total. Little enough to make no difference. And enough to give you the illusion that, intheory, you could put those points into
- something else than MND as a conjurer
- something else than INT as a thaumaturge
- something else than STR as a melee class and
- something else than DEX as an archer.

People love the illusion of choice, as long as the system ensures that no wrong choices are possible.


But you absolutely CAN do it wrong.

Let's say I'm a PLD.. would I be better off wearing a piece of gear that gives me +30 VIT or +30 INT? VIT obviously.. right? (right?) And there's no question that having 30 extra in my VIT is more useful to me than 30 extra in INT.

It's not an insubstantial amount. And it's not enough to make up for racial differences either because someone who's the "right" race is STILL going to have the advantage in stats if both he and the person playing the "wrong" race both put their points in the right stats.
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#21 Jun 24 2013 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like it. It's a fun RPG feature I enjoy in offline games and remember from EQ. My only concern is min/max phobia. As pug, how long do I stack strength? Until I start missing? Do I try to keep a balance with str./dex.? What if I'm not doing enough damage? Stats become permanent and potentially an albatross to your main character.

Like I said I enjoy it. I am however, wary of players being shunned from endgame for making risky or even safe decisions. To find out that your main "did it wrong" would not be a fun feeling.
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#22 Jun 24 2013 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's garbage.

The system is bland and seems pretty pointless. All it does it give people a way to gimp their character.

Quote:
30 total. Little enough to make no difference. And enough to give you the illusion that, in theory, you could put those points into
- something else than MND as a conjurer
- something else than INT as a thaumaturge
- something else than STR as a melee class and
- something else than DEX as an archer.


^ This. Putting those points into the non-optimal stats is only holding your character back. In a party situation having all the points in the optimal stat is going to be the best choice. And for solo, the amount of points is so little that it isn't likely to make a difference between chaining enemies, dying, or completing content that you could not have otherwise.

If they REALLY want to give us the ability to customize our characters they would let us put those points to upgrading the traits that we have. Basically each trait has anywhere from 1-5 points that can be assigned to it to increase effect somehow - totaling, I don't know...50 total across all of them. With the 30 points we're given, we could pick and choose which abilities to make extra better (0.o). I guess it would be similar to merits but I never got to that point in FFXI so I'm not sure how that worked.
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#23 Jun 24 2013 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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I'm kind of Meh. It takes away one of the great benefits of XIV, playing all the classes/jobs on one character. You can either use it to "balance" your character out, making you MUCH weaker than an already superior starting race at a specific class/job, or you can also use it to "buff" your job/class/race specific stats, essentially making your already superior race at X class/job even moreso. It almost seems as if they gave us those 8* slots knowing the hardcore end game shells would be Racist :P

*edited w/ correct amount of character slots per world.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 8:12pm by burtonsnow
#24 Jun 24 2013 at 6:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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burtonsnow wrote:
I'm kind of Meh. It takes away one of the great benefits of XIV, playing all the classes/jobs on one character. You can either use it to "balance" your character out, making you MUCH weaker than an already superior starting race at a specific class/job, or you can also use it to "buff" your job/class/race specific stats, essentially making your already superior race at X class/job even moreso. It almost seems as if they gave us those 8* slots knowing the hardcore end game shells would be Racist :P

*edited w/ correct amount of character slots per world.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 8:12pm by burtonsnow


-laughs-

Realistically any and every class you choose has their own stat allotment. So point for point you shouldn't wind up any worse or better than you normally would if allocating similarly.
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#25 Jun 24 2013 at 6:19 PM Rating: Good
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burtonsnow wrote:
I'm kind of Meh. It takes away one of the great benefits of XIV, playing all the classes/jobs on one character. You can either use it to "balance" your character out, making you MUCH weaker than an already superior starting race at a specific class/job, or you can also use it to "buff" your job/class/race specific stats, essentially making your already superior race at X class/job even moreso. It almost seems as if they gave us those 8* slots knowing the hardcore end game shells would be Racist :P

*edited w/ correct amount of character slots per world.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 8:12pm by burtonsnow


I'd like to repeat this just for clarity. It should also be noted that in 23 posts, this has come up a bunch of times.

The system is not adequately explained in the game, leading to a ton of confusion about how it works.

Stat points are allocated class by class. Your archer has different stat allocations than your thaumaturge. Someone confirmed for us up there that this is still the case.

So you don't have to be concerned about your conjurer stats gimping your gladiator, that's not a thing. But it does highlight how poorly this system is explained to people.

I'm all for character customization. I thought the merit point system in FFXI was pretty cool, although there were still some clear choices to make, and those COULD gimp your off-jobs (how many hand-to-hand merits does my BLM need again?). I much prefer the classes to be self-contained. I feel like it's the only way a class system like this can really work without feeling like punishment.
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#26 Jun 24 2013 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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I wonder if it is explained some in all those help windows that pop up. I've been mostly ignoring them. There may have been one about this. -shrugs-
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