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Not Worried About TES:OFollow

#1 Jun 24 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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I was browsing UESP for Skyrim info and noticed they had stuff about TES:O up. After reading through the synopsis they had on the game I already feel like the game will do poorly, especially over the long-term. I don't think that it will eat into SE's console sales very much, if at all. It might even help them with players that are new to MMOs and pick it up only to find out it's nothing like the other games.

I have several issues with the game. First off, the automatic max level and welfare gear for the PvP zone. I didn't care for that sort of PVP setup in GW2 and I don't think it will be any better in TES:O. Then there is the use of Phasing to get around players being able to "change the world". Phasing in some of WoW's WotLK areas was terrible, and it was quite annoying not being able to see your friends in a certain area. They state that you can join other players on previous quests and the world will "Revert" back to the way it was before you completed them. This almost makes the whole aspect of the game feel pointless to me. They are also introducing more standard MMO "classes" into the game. They claim that you still have a lot of freedom to do whatever you want regardless of class, but each one still has skill trees. Finally, the nail in the coffin from my perspective, each platform will have it's own individual servers. PS4 and X-Bone will each have their own servers while PC and Mac will share their own servers. They claimed it was to allow for each platform to have a fair advantage in pvp, however being an MMO I have a feeling that the console versions will have KB&Mouse capabilities anyway. I have a feeling that this will make the playerbases on each platform quite small after a couple months. Thank Altana that SE was still able to cross-platform or this would be an issue for us as well.

Having played Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim a moderate amount, I consider myself a middle-of-the-road sort of player between the casual and hardcore fans. As such, I have no interest whatsoever in this game. When I look to play TES games I expect a certain experience, and from what I've read that experience will not be had in their MMO. I have a feeling that some hardcore fans might feel the same way as well. Aside from Lore I don't see a major draw to the game.

I think that the TES world would have been much better suited for a multiplayer system like Diablo or Borderlands uses. A system where a person could make a game from their character's "save" and 4/8/12/20 or so players could join them. This could allow for players' actions to actually effect the world in a meaningful way without being game-breaking to others. If someone in your game is doing something you don't like, kick them or don't play with them anymore.

These are just my thoughts on the game. I seriously doubt it will have a large, lasting playerbase.

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 3:27pm by Wint Lock Thread: Not off topic, but degrading quickly. Sorry guys.
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#2 Jun 24 2013 at 1:53 PM Rating: Default
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You're not worried about it, as in you want it to fail so that ARR can be more popular?

ARR is most likely going to appeal to Final Fantasy fanboys. If you're not a fan of the series, it doesn't really offer you that much. I see TESO being more popular with the average gamer in the west, and it seems to have some interesting features of its own while ARR is a self-proclaimed World of Warcraft clone. TES is also pretty mainstream in the west right now, with lots of word of mouth between younger people IRL and on social networking sites like Facebook.

Unlike you, I actually wish the PS3 and PC servers for ARR had been separated. Maybe then the PC version wouldn't have taken such a huge graphics hit, and they could probably implement an in-game voice chat option for the PS3 version without worrying about anything.

Anyway, I don't know why you would be worried or not worried about TESO's success. Let me assure you that its a totally different fan base.
#3 Jun 24 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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DamienSScott wrote:
I was browsing UESP for Skyrim info and noticed they had stuff about TES:O up. After reading through the synopsis they had on the game I already feel like the game will do poorly, especially over the long-term. I don't think that it will eat into SE's console sales very much, if at all. It might even help them with players that are new to MMOs and pick it up only to find out it's nothing like the other games.

I have several issues with the game. First off, the automatic max level and welfare gear for the PvP zone. I didn't care for that sort of PVP setup in GW2 and I don't think it will be any better in TES:O. Then there is the use of Phasing to get around players being able to "change the world". Phasing in some of WoW's WotLK areas was terrible, and it was quite annoying not being able to see your friends in a certain area. They state that you can join other players on previous quests and the world will "Revert" back to the way it was before you completed them. This almost makes the whole aspect of the game feel pointless to me. They are also introducing more standard MMO "classes" into the game. They claim that you still have a lot of freedom to do whatever you want regardless of class, but each one still has skill trees. Finally, the nail in the coffin from my perspective, each platform will have it's own individual servers. PS4 and X-Bone will each have their own servers while PC and Mac will share their own servers. They claimed it was to allow for each platform to have a fair advantage in pvp, however being an MMO I have a feeling that the console versions will have KB&Mouse capabilities anyway. I have a feeling that this will make the playerbases on each platform quite small after a couple months. Thank Altana that SE was still able to cross-platform or this would be an issue for us as well.

Having played Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim a moderate amount, I consider myself a middle-of-the-road sort of player between the casual and hardcore fans. As such, I have no interest whatsoever in this game. When I look to play TES games I expect a certain experience, and from what I've read that experience will not be had in their MMO. I have a feeling that some hardcore fans might feel the same way as well. Aside from Lore I don't see a major draw to the game.

I think that the TES world would have been much better suited for a multiplayer system like Diablo or Borderlands uses. A system where a person could make a game from their character's "save" and 4/8/12/20 or so players could join them. This could allow for players' actions to actually effect the world in a meaningful way without being game-breaking to others. If someone in your game is doing something you don't like, kick them or don't play with them anymore.

These are just my thoughts on the game. I seriously doubt it will have a large, lasting playerbase.


1. With regard to "traditional MMO jobs" I think we certainly can't make a statement as to the enjoyment one will derive from these jobs without trying them first... Anything can be fun if done correctly, and I am sure many will welcome a nod to oldschool tradition? Don't believe me? Look at the number of Final Fantasies past references in XIV.

2. With regards to the world changing back... I'm sure they did this because they envisioned millions of scenarios where people would take advantage of this factor in order to a. help themselves b. ruin the experience for everyone else... Sort of sounds like RMT and their destruction of fishing.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 3:57pm by Parathyroid
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#4 Jun 24 2013 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Also with the delay of TESO into 2014 FFXIV by that point in time should be settled into their market share. If the game is fantastic it will be off and running, if it is mediocre than it will settle into its niche. So from a FFXIV perspective I think TESO is a non factor now because of the delay, however there was vague tweets from Smedly of EQN that it would be playable this year, and 'not in the form of beta'. Still EQN will be at least a couple months after FFXIV so again, FFXIV has a chance to make its mark. Anyhow just my thoughts.
#5 Jun 24 2013 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
TESO is a non factor in ARR's success, IMO. I do agree, though, that what I have read and seen of the game seems a bit wonky. I think a lot of people will be more pleased by ARR's execution of more fundamentally sound MMO mechanics... Basically trying to make the wheel spin faster than attempt to reinvent it.
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#6 Jun 24 2013 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Unlike you, I actually wish the PS3 and PC servers for ARR had been separated. Maybe then the PC version wouldn't have taken such a huge graphics hit, and they could probably implement an in-game voice chat option for the PS3 version without worrying about anything.

Anyway, I don't know why you would be worried or not worried about TESO's success. Let me assure you that its a totally different fan base.


I think its better to have more people playing then graphics, plus if your friends arnt all playing on a ps3 or a pc you can still play with them no matter the platform!
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#7 Jun 24 2013 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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No need to worry about anything. The best game will have the most users. If that isn't ARR, it can still be successful with 500k users.
#8 Jun 24 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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If FFXIV is good and worth playing, it will do well. If it isn't, it will not. TESO or any other MMO has nothing to do with it. MMO's don't kill each other.
#9 Jun 24 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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Arjuncorpse wrote:
If FFXIV is good and worth playing, it will do well. If it isn't, it will not. TESO or any other MMO has nothing to do with it. MMO's don't kill each other.


They do actually, to some extent. Most players will not subscribe to more than 1-2 MMOs at any given time. The people willing to subscribe to MMOs is already smaller than the base of people willing to play MMOs, so P2P MMO games are fighting against each other, while F2P mmos are also duking it out.

Whoever appeals to the broadest audience wins. That's why WoW was so successful and had such staying power. Whether XIV or TESO will have that kind of broad appeal is another question entirely. All we can do is wait and see. (Personally, I think a very casual gamer is more likely to gravitate to a bright shiny colorful world than they are a grimdark work. Lahurah's parents picked up 1.0 because it was so pretty, not because they were avid FF fans or had previously played other MMOs.)
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#10 Jun 24 2013 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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Daggerfall's glitchy nature drove me from TES games for years. I gave them another shot because of my love of Fallout.

Just to head off the inevitable response, I Can't upgrade individual PC's for every member of the household, the cost would be insane with 3 kids and a nearly 60 year old GAMER MOTHER IN LAW, on top of my own machine. PS3's covered the elders and the Wii/DS the younger, all at a single investment point with no further upgrades needed. ( My launch PS3 is running 14 just fine) So please, lets leave the " Should have bought a PC" line. out for this moment, please. I have one, It's for Eve and typing this forum post. With as much family responsibility as I have, I stick to the minimums.

Fallout 3 I gave a chance to because of nostalgia, but exhibited the identical errors in the next iteration ( New Vegas, Different dev, same publisher, no passing the buck)

I thought, "Skyrim huh? Well ****, I'm SURE they figured things out and the game will be leaps and bounds above Fallout." Nope, file gets too large, game turns into a flip-book movie or crashes entirely.

PS3 was not alone, Xbox users had their own share of glitches, but the end result is it took nearly a YEAR after launch to make only marginal improvements in their engine on the platforms that weren't supportable by the massive Mod community. Even Pete Hines admitted they didn't expect this sort of issue.

After all of that, Just seeing the name Bethesda on a box is Poison for me, which is a shame, as I sort of wanted to try Dishonored, but I won't send Bethsoft one more thin dime unless they can push out a fully functional Fallout/TES on a console with minimal first month patching.



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#11 Jun 24 2013 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Arjuncorpse wrote:
If FFXIV is good and worth playing, it will do well. If it isn't, it will not. TESO or any other MMO has nothing to do with it. MMO's don't kill each other.


They do actually, to some extent. Most players will not subscribe to more than 1-2 MMOs at any given time. The people willing to subscribe to MMOs is already smaller than the base of people willing to play MMOs, so P2P MMO games are fighting against each other, while F2P mmos are also duking it out.

Whoever appeals to the broadest audience wins. That's why WoW was so successful and had such staying power. Whether XIV or TESO will have that kind of broad appeal is another question entirely. All we can do is wait and see. (Personally, I think a very casual gamer is more likely to gravitate to a bright shiny colorful world than they are a grimdark work. Lahurah's parents picked up 1.0 because it was so pretty, not because they were avid FF fans or had previously played other MMOs.)


They don't kill each other though. I know many people consider not having huge sub numbers or a MMO going F2P = MMO dead, but that is not true. Outright killing a MMO is really not that easy. Specially one with a high profile publisher and IP behind it. TESO can be a raging success or a huge disappointment, but its not going to decide whether FFXIV lives or dies.
#12 Jun 24 2013 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Killua125 wrote:
You're not worried about it, as in you want it to fail so that ARR can be more popular?

ARR is most likely going to appeal to Final Fantasy fanboys. If you're not a fan of the series, it doesn't really offer you that much. I see TESO being more popular with the average gamer in the west, and it seems to have some interesting features of its own while ARR is a self-proclaimed World of Warcraft clone. TES is also pretty mainstream in the west right now, with lots of word of mouth between younger people IRL and on social networking sites like Facebook.

Unlike you, I actually wish the PS3 and PC servers for ARR had been separated. Maybe then the PC version wouldn't have taken such a huge graphics hit, and they could probably implement an in-game voice chat option for the PS3 version without worrying about anything.

Anyway, I don't know why you would be worried or not worried about TESO's success. Let me assure you that its a totally different fan base.


Hilarious karma bomb yet again.

Dude just make a new account... There's no sense in EVERYTHING you say being filtered.

Edit: He was sub-def. when I made this post... I don't know why I comment on it, I just think fair opinions should not get bombed. His opinion was fair and at minimum not unreasonable, certainly not troll bait.

I can't deny he certainly lacks a certain "Je ne sais quois" in the way he says things which leads to the common reaction he gets... Sorry to talk about you whilst defending your right to post... One must understand though, words like "fanboy" and "self-proclaimed WoW clone," while they may hold true to a degree, sound as though they come with a confrontational connotation even though I don't believe you meant them to be as such.



Edited, Jun 24th 2013 6:43pm by Parathyroid
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#13 Jun 24 2013 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Arjuncorpse wrote:
If FFXIV is good and worth playing, it will do well. If it isn't, it will not. TESO or any other MMO has nothing to do with it. MMO's don't kill each other.


People may take a stance against this comment, but... just from playing the beta you can only tell if the game is NOT worth playing... if the game is worth playing in it's beta form and is still great, the final product will almost certainly be at least as good if not better.

With that said, this game is worth playing and I have zero reservations saying it will achieve at minimum moderate success.
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#14 Jun 24 2013 at 5:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Parathyroid wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
You're not worried about it, as in you want it to fail so that ARR can be more popular?

ARR is most likely going to appeal to Final Fantasy fanboys. If you're not a fan of the series, it doesn't really offer you that much. I see TESO being more popular with the average gamer in the west, and it seems to have some interesting features of its own while ARR is a self-proclaimed World of Warcraft clone. TES is also pretty mainstream in the west right now, with lots of word of mouth between younger people IRL and on social networking sites like Facebook.

Unlike you, I actually wish the PS3 and PC servers for ARR had been separated. Maybe then the PC version wouldn't have taken such a huge graphics hit, and they could probably implement an in-game voice chat option for the PS3 version without worrying about anything.

Anyway, I don't know why you would be worried or not worried about TESO's success. Let me assure you that its a totally different fan base.


Hilarious karma bomb yet again.

Dude just make a new account... There's no sense in EVERYTHING you say being filtered.

Edit: He was sub-def. when I made this post... I don't know why I comment on it, I just think fair opinions should not get bombed. His opinion was fair and at minimum not unreasonable, certainly not troll bait.

I can't deny he certainly lacks a certain "Je ne sais quois" in the way he says things which leads to the common reaction he gets... Sorry to talk about you whilst defending your right to post... One must understand though, words like "fanboy" and "self-proclaimed WoW clone," while they may hold true to a degree, sound as though they come with a confrontational connotation even though I don't believe you meant them to be as such.



Edited, Jun 24th 2013 6:43pm by Parathyroid


Smiley: deadhorse

Seriously, let it go.

I'd rate him down if I usually participated in that kind of thing, his assertion that the only reason the graphics were toned down was because PC and PS3 are on the same server makes absolutely no sense in the slightest.
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#15 Jun 24 2013 at 5:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've been a fan since Arena, but I really have no interest in ESO.

I would have much rather seen a "Destiny" type approach to a Skyrim type world.

So as a "fanboy" it'll be ARR for me.
#16 Jun 24 2013 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
Didn't read your comments. Don't have to. It will fail. Why?



That's why. A game series that is well known for game-breaking glitches... making an MMO. It's just stupid.
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#17 Jun 24 2013 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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OtosanOokami wrote:

I thought, "Skyrim huh? Well ****, I'm SURE they figured things out and the game will be leaps and bounds above Fallout." Nope, file gets too large, game turns into a flip-book movie or crashes entirely.

PS3 was not alone, Xbox users had their own share of glitches, but the end result is it took nearly a YEAR after launch to make only marginal improvements in their engine on the platforms that weren't supportable by the massive Mod community. Even Pete Hines admitted they didn't expect this sort of issue.


Yeah, I'm guessing they pushed the game out early with minimal testing, especially on consoles. PC and XBox glitches were pretty bad, but it seemed like they fixed most of them. However, they eventually stated that they were giving up on the PS3 after a couple months which was garbage. My friend had the PS3 version and had to end up buying the PC one just to be able to play it. I think he tried to complain to them to give him it for free, but you know how that stuff goes. I recently bought the Legendary Edition that just came out (never bought a previous copy) and so far it has been bug free on PC. They tend to just put the games out and let the modding communities fix the issues.

I wouldn't worry about the whole PC thing too much. I am personally glad that I built one instead of investing in one of the next gen consoles, but with a houseful like that I can see how the consoles would be more bang for your buck :D. Slapping a keyboard and mouse on the PS3 works great, even alongside the controller.

My first MMO was FFXI and I started it at the PS2 launch. I didn't feel it to be much of a hindrance to play on the console at the time. However, coming back to FFXI later for the PC I realize how much help some add-ons can be. Hopefully the PS3/PS4 will allow for some sort of use of add-ons in the future.
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#18 Jun 24 2013 at 8:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
Didn't read your comments. Don't have to. It will fail. Why?

That's why. A game series that is well known for game-breaking glitches... making an MMO. It's just stupid.



I laughed way to hard at that video, his excitement really carried me threw the video lol.


edit, looks like you uploaded it, great video man!

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 10:06pm by IMFW
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#19 Jun 24 2013 at 11:39 PM Rating: Good
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They will have different audiences I feel. Besides targeting the fans of two separate large IPs, TESO is being made by a group of devs that largely worked on DAoC. PvP devs you could say. They are putting their focus on that in a way ARR likely isn't going to.
There are some gamers who complain about how we can switch classes too easily in this game and how it leaves them with no feeling of being specialized or unique. I personally love the ability to switch roles and do whatever I want, but I understand their complaint. TESO is made more for them.

I don't see the games really effecting one another. I will probably play both.

Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
Didn't read your comments. Don't have to. It will fail. Why?

That's why. A game series that is well known for game-breaking glitches... making an MMO. It's just stupid.

Skyrim wasn't a terribly glitchy game. It was a game that had varied performance depending the machine running it sure, you can say it wasn't well optimized for some machines, but it hasn't been an issue for most gamers I feel. Maybe that is my experience as a PC gamer as my hardware is way above that of an Xbox360 and I know the PC version got performance updates very frequently. If I had to guess your machine is just running hot and is struggling with the graphics, but who knows.

Anyway your comparison is like my saying XIV:ARR will be buggy because back in VI by character sprites kept disappearing when running around snowy areas.
TESO isn't even being worked on by the same developers as Skyrim was. ****, it isn't even the same studio. "They" are not making an MMO, Bethesda has nothing to do with TESO.

I also wish people would stop using the word "fail" to describe a game. It is a meaningless statement. The game will obviously sell well and have its fanbase so it won't fail in a business sense. I hear the word "fail" tossed around as an insult to a game way too often. Take SWOTR for example. The game saw a massive decrease in activity after its first month and was largely labeled a failure. It is the second most subbed for MMO on the market at the moment with over half a million subscribers though. That is with an optional subscription plan. It had bugs galore, especially in relation to PvP and raiding. They chased me away. I would never call the game a failure though. EVE has been around for a long LONG time and is only recently nipping at the game's heels in subscriber totals.

If TESO "fails" to attract you that is something different entirely. You should start looking for a different way to express that opinion than joining the brain-numbed throng of internet children who use the word "fail" to describe their prediction how well some new game title will be received by the masses.

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 1:43am by decoyninja
#20 Jun 25 2013 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
You're not worried about it, as in you want it to fail so that ARR can be more popular?

ARR is most likely going to appeal to Final Fantasy fanboys. If you're not a fan of the series, it doesn't really offer you that much. I see TESO being more popular with the average gamer in the west, and it seems to have some interesting features of its own while ARR is a self-proclaimed World of Warcraft clone. TES is also pretty mainstream in the west right now, with lots of word of mouth between younger people IRL and on social networking sites like Facebook.

Anyway, I don't know why you would be worried or not worried about TESO's success. Let me assure you that its a totally different fan base.


I disagree. I think ARR will be a very successful niche game. TESO will just get swallowed up by World of Warcraft like every other western MMO that has come out since 2004. ARR's Final Fantasy feel and cross platform release is what will make it successful. The western fan base will play TESO for a few months and run back to WoW when their next expansion comes out, or maybe even the next patch since their patches are the size of an entire expansion for other MMOs. Will TESO have a few players like EQ2 and Rift? Sure, but I think ARR will have more and it's pop will be stable.

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 2:31am by Transmigration
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#21 Jun 25 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
decoyninja wrote:
Skyrim wasn't a terribly glitchy game. It was a game that had varied performance depending the machine running it sure, you can say it wasn't well optimized for some machines, but it hasn't been an issue for most gamers I feel. Maybe that is my experience as a PC gamer as my hardware is way above that of an Xbox360 and I know the PC version got performance updates very frequently. If I had to guess your machine is just running hot and is struggling with the graphics, but who knows.


First, TES:O is going to be on consoles.

Second, you are going to tell me that Skyrim wasn't buggy as ****??

decoyninja wrote:
Anyway your comparison is like my saying XIV:ARR will be buggy because back in VI by character sprites kept disappearing when running around snowy areas.
TESO isn't even being worked on by the same developers as Skyrim was. ****, it isn't even the same studio. "They" are not making an MMO, Bethesda has nothing to do with TESO.'


Go back to the wiki link above, ZeniMax/Bethesda are making the game. It's not like they went out, found a better company, and had them make it. Same company, likely same product.

decoyninja wrote:
I also wish people would stop using the word "fail" to describe a game. It is a meaningless statement. The game will obviously sell well and have its fanbase so it won't fail in a business sense. I hear the word "fail" tossed around as an insult to a game way too often. Take SWOTR for example. The game saw a massive decrease in activity after its first month and was largely labeled a failure. It is the second most subbed for MMO on the market at the moment with over half a million subscribers though. That is with an optional subscription plan. It had bugs galore, especially in relation to PvP and raiding. They chased me away. I would never call the game a failure though. EVE has been around for a long LONG time and is only recently nipping at the game's heels in subscriber totals.

If TESO "fails" to attract you that is something different entirely. You should start looking for a different way to express that opinion than joining the brain-numbed throng of internet children who use the word "fail" to describe their prediction how well some new game title will be received by the masses.

Um, an MMO can fail, you understand the definition of failure, correct? As in it fails to meet with expectations, fails to remain profitable, fails to capture an audience, fails to remain online...

I mean, a lot of MMOs have failed. Tabula Rasa comes to mind. Warhammer Online as well. Basically, to get you to understand the term "fail" in the sense of how I was using it: An MMO is supposed to draw a large crowd of people and remain online for a decent length of time. If the game does not do this, it fails to fulfill its actual goal. So, therefore, if they make a game as badly glitchy as every single other title this company has ever made, no gamer is going to stay longer than maybe the first month or so. So, therefore, the MMO will die off and the servers will be shut down.

In your post, you said that SW:TOR was considered, by some, a failure. I would not say that about the game, mainly because you can still go online and play it right now. It might not meet with expectations, it might not be the WoW killer the market pundits expected it to be, but it's far from a failure. My using the term "fail" is that I feel that if the game has as many crushing glitches as the entire library available from Bethesda/ZeniMax, it will fail to even hold gamers past a month or more. It will likely sell well enough, but it will not meet with the expectations of even its producing company, and will fold up, and go offline. Hence, failing to be a persistent MMO, and joining the ranks of the cancelled MMOs.

IMFW wrote:
Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
Didn't read your comments. Don't have to. It will fail. Why?

That's why. A game series that is well known for game-breaking glitches... making an MMO. It's just stupid.



I laughed way to hard at that video, his excitement really carried me threw the video lol.


edit, looks like you uploaded it, great video man!

Why thank you! I scrambled to find my capture card when this happened. I'm glad it still had enough life left to get it.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#22 Jun 25 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
A game series that is well known for game-breaking glitches... making an MMO. It's just stupid.
Not too different than a game franchise that is well known for mediocrity making an MMO.
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#23 Jun 25 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
decoyninja wrote:
Skyrim wasn't a terribly glitchy game. It was a game that had varied performance depending the machine running it sure, you can say it wasn't well optimized for some machines, but it hasn't been an issue for most gamers I feel. Maybe that is my experience as a PC gamer as my hardware is way above that of an Xbox360 and I know the PC version got performance updates very frequently. If I had to guess your machine is just running hot and is struggling with the graphics, but who knows.


First, TES:O is going to be on consoles.

[


If you mean it's gonna be a console game only then you are mistaken. It is gonna be on windows as well. You can see it even in the wiki link you game "microsoft windows" as well as for apple computers.

However if you didn't mean that then do not take my post under consideration.
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#24 Jun 25 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
No, I was just pointing out that he was saying Skyrim performed better on better PCs, but this game is going to be on consoles as well, and unless they are doing the EverQuest Online thing and separating the servers, it will likely be multiplatform, and therefore bugs will have to be ironed out on both platforms.

Like I said, I just don't think a corporation like Zeni should be in this space, it has a bad reputation for pushing out games without having them fully tested, so I'd expect this game to be treated the same.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#25 Jun 25 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Default
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You are complaining about the job the development team did on Skyrim coding. You whine about the prospect of them making an MMO. You sound like a moron as a result because those coders who you blame for leaving you an underground hole in the world aren't working on the MMO. You try and cover your mistake by saying the publishers are the same but that isn't working. Sorry.

The developers are different teams, they are going to do things drastically different. It is already a massively different game than anything Bethesda has done with TES. Most purists are either annoyed the game doesn't resemble the TES style enough or just thankful that the game ISN'T being made by Bethesda so they can expect no delays on TES6 as a result. Bethesda doesn't have input beyond a conference call here and there in relation to lore.

And what I was saying is that the game performs well on good hardware that gets its updates. The 360 isn't good hardware and you probably are missing some patches as a result of simply being on a console. I've never seen holes like you have shown and I play an extremely modded game full of opportunity for data clashing, save corruption and other inconsistencies. I know for a fact you are playing a subpar build in fact because the Xbox doesn't even have all the patches Bethesda has put out in relation to terrain and textures as the console can't handle it. The game was heavily updated post release with PC improvements. This isn't the only PC game to under-perform on xbox360 either. Minecraft let's plays filmed on the 360 are hilarious. That is what your hole in the world reminds me of, minecraft struggling with the gameworld. Maybe next gen consoles will be able to step up.
And yes, the servers are separated.
#26 Jun 25 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
For those not keeping score at home, decoy decided to come troll my video with this idiocy, so excuse me for a second...

Basically, I was trying to get through to him that the company, as a whole, will not produce a viable MMO because of the amount of testing and follow-up required for the game. Keep in mind that Zeni/Bethesda has been making games for quite some time. And pretty much all of them have featured tons of bugs, glitches, and broken content. He, however, posted that they did hire out additional staff from other companies to found ZeniMax Online in order to make the game. So with that backstory:

decoyninja wrote:
You are complaining about the job the development team did on Skyrim coding. You whine about the prospect of them making an MMO. You sound like a moron as a result because those coders who you blame for leaving you an underground hole in the world aren't working on the MMO. You try and cover your mistake by saying the publishers are the same but that isn't working. Sorry.
I never complained about the job they did. I said that the game was, and is, loaded with bugs and really this is a bad idea to make an MMO when your company has not really created a solid game as yet. Sure, they will beta test it, and just like every game that is beta-tested, people will (and already have) leak how the game is shaping up, not to mention that if they do not try to achieve the glitches that most of the rest of the Internet have found in the games they already made, then those glitches will exist, be exploited and provide a horrible experience.

If they had hired an independent developer, as I said in those comments before you ran off, then I'd have more faith in the end result being better. As I also said in the comments, Zeni/Bethesda has a habit of pushing a game out the door long before it should go in order to meet with expected release schedules.

decoyninja wrote:
The developers are different teams, they are going to do things drastically different. It is already a massively different game than anything Bethesda has done with TES. Most purists are either annoyed the game doesn't resemble the TES style enough or just thankful that the game ISN'T being made by Bethesda so they can expect no delays on TES6 as a result. Bethesda doesn't have input beyond a conference call here and there in relation to lore.
That is wholesale ********* It's the same company, it's just a separate group formed within it for organizational purposes. They hired in more developers simply so that they could continue releasing single-player games while they have this other group more dedicated to managing the MMO itself. That's not exactly irregular to do, as they do want to continue to make other products.

However, it is their employees, their group, within their company. It still, however, have the same managers that set the same deadlines and expect the same results within the same timeframe. They will still willingly shove the game out the door based on a release schedule rather than waiting for it to be solid and ready to go because they want returns as soon as possible, with the idea that since this strategy has worked before that it will work again. However, an MMO is not the same as a single-player experience, and really needs a long, thorough beta test, and can require a release to be pushed back.

I don't see Zeni/Bethesda breaking with that simply because someone within their MMO-management group saying they need to. It's just not something the company has done before, and I don't see them doing now. Why change if fans like yourself exist?

decoyninja wrote:
And what I was saying is that the game performs well on good hardware that gets its updates. The 360 isn't good hardware and you probably are missing some patches as a result of simply being on a console. I've never seen holes like you have shown and I play an extremely modded game full of opportunity for data clashing, save corruption and other inconsistencies. I know for a fact you are playing a subpar build in fact because the Xbox doesn't even have all the patches Bethesda has put out in relation to terrain and textures as the console can't handle it. The game was heavily updated post release with PC improvements. This isn't the only PC game to under-perform on xbox360 either. Minecraft let's plays filmed on the 360 are hilarious. That is what your hole in the world reminds me of, minecraft struggling with the gameworld. Maybe next gen consoles will be able to step up.
And yes, the servers are separated.

Then please explain the countless glitches seen on the PC edition that still exist? You did not want to on the comments, so do it here. Why isn't the PC version some glorious, perfect entry? Why are there tons of glitches with it too? Is it because, as you said there, due to "overheating" or "scratched discs?"

And really, resorting to name-calling because your arguments don't stand up to scrutiny just shows how flimsy they are in the first place. This company has a history of poor product support, and they are making a style of game that needs a much higher standard than that. Time will tell if they can get their **** together, but I base my decisions off facts, and the facts are pretty plain. Every single game made by this studio has had glitches of some variety, some crushingly game-breaking. We will see how the game pans out in the end.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#27 Jun 25 2013 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't remember experiencing any glitches on the PC version of Skyrim. That's not to say that glitches didn't exist, but you're acting like the games are so horribly flawed that the people behind them should throw their hands up in the air, and stop making games.
#28 Jun 25 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well I have to agree with Killua for the glitches part. I never saw that kind of glitches in the game. I mean so bad anyway.

Not saying there weren't any as well for example one was that the woman blacksmith (don't remember the name of the town) that her blacksmith was next to the gate and next to your house always stayed in the same spot day and night always there. Or when i had a couple of times corrupted saves. But other than that I didn't have any other major glitch.
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#29 Jun 25 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
Killua125 wrote:
I don't remember experiencing any glitches on the PC version of Skyrim. That's not to say that glitches didn't exist, but you're acting like the games are so horribly flawed that the people behind them should throw their hands up in the air, and stop making games.

No, I'm saying that they shouldn't enter the MMO space.

I love how people seem to magically glean all these meanings from me saying that a TES:O will fail because the company is known for glitchy games.

Let me lay out a few things:

- Bethesda games are awesome
- Bethesda sometimes should beta test a little more
- Bethesda shouldn't enter into MMOs with the same ideology as their single-player games
- ^-- This is likely what will kill TES:O because I don't see upper management magically changing overnight

Are we clear now?
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#30 Jun 25 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
That is wholesale bullsh*t. It's the same company, it's just a separate group formed within it for organizational purposes. They hired in more developers simply so that they could continue releasing single-player games while they have this other group more dedicated to managing the MMO itself. That's not exactly irregular to do, as they do want to continue to make other products.

...

an MMO is not the same as a single-player experience, and really needs a long, thorough beta test, and can require a release to be pushed back.


It is so obvious that you aren't following the game. That is fine, I don't expect everyone to, especially not people I meet on forums for other games. But you are talking out of your *** and acting like you are in the know. Zenimax knows that an MMO is a different beast. That is why they put an MMO developer in charge of the project. That is why he filled his team with people who have worked on MMOs.

Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:

- Bethesda games are awesome
- Bethesda sometimes should beta test a little more
- Bethesda shouldn't enter into MMOs with the same ideology as their single-player games
- ^-- This is likely what will kill TES:O because I don't see upper management magically changing overnight

Are we clear now?

No, because you continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over and over again.

Zenimax has been very transparent about the need to have people who have experience with MMOs behind their game and their reasoning behind using a completely new studio of such people solely for this particular game. They hired MMO developers from that segment of the industry to fill their jobs and are working to make the game an MMO. Everytime you find yourself mentally reaching for the word "Bethesda" you are falling prey to the hamster wheel you can't seem to break out of. Jobs were filled for this game. We aren't talking about random coders from Bethesda being relocated for an MMO. You already know and admitted this. Zenimax doesn't want to take people off the Bethesda team for this, those guys are already busy enough. We are talking about MMO developers who have had nothing to do with Bethesda or Zenimax before 2007 when ZOS was formed and the work for this game was started. The game has been in testing for YEARS and will likely be in testing another year before we see it.

Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:

Then please explain the countless glitches seen on the PC edition that still exist? You did not want to on the comments, so do it here. Why isn't the PC version some glorious, perfect entry? Why are there tons of glitches with it too? Is it because, as you said there, due to "overheating" or "scratched discs?"
As many of us are telling you, the game runs great for us on PC. This isn't some new amazing occurrence recently to grace consciousness. PCs have ALWAYS handled gaming better than consoles. People who game on PC typically don't build their rig from 8 year old hardware (and that is when it was "new"). Sorry to turn this into 'le pc gaming master race lawl' but stop expecting PC performance on a console, you won't get it. Least of all at the very end of said console's lifecycle.


And I'm not getting into it with you over your need to give all positive and negative credit to the publishers of these games. I'm not dignifying such misdirection with a response beyond simply this:
Great games aren't because publishers gave infinite money, not all bad games are because publishers rushed their developers to a deadline. Good or bad the development studio makes the game.


We've gone through most of this enough that anything else I could say is just a waste of bre.. typing. Feel free to put your head back in the sand when you are finished with your obligatory response, confident in the fact I will not bother tapping you on the shoulder again.

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 4:09pm by decoyninja
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