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#1 Jun 26 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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It seems as though we go back and forth constantly debating whether this is a single player centric game or whether it's a group play centric game... I think Yoshi answers that in one key statement he makes while detailing the "elemental" system...

Yoshi P wrote:
Yoshi-P here.
I'd like to address the subject of attributes and resistances, and how they will work in FFXIV: ARR.

Premise

I believe one of the most enjoyable aspects of an MMO is party play. The feeling you get after defeating a mighty foe together with friends and receive rich rewards such as powerful gear and rare items is priceless, and no MMO can do without it.

In order to give players that sense of achievement without any undue stress, we have to carefully balance the roles of every class and job, as well as the inherent attributes of enemies. Put simply, it's important that we avoid situations where certain enemies possess attributes that render certain classes or jobs ineffective against them.

For example, we don't want players saying "well, black mage is the only DPS job that works for this boss," so we have to strike the right balance between classes, jobs, and enemies. Now let's get to the heart of the matter.


While this is nothing new or groundbreaking... I feel as though there is still a lot of uneasiness about how this game is going to eventually play out. I can also safely say many, many of us are XI players and easily one of the most important parts of the game to us is the community.

I just hope this little sentiment here from Yoshi can go a long way to alleviate the fears that there won't be enough community play. We all already know there is plenty of solo play to be had for casuals, but I truly believe this confirms that the game is going to have a major element of group play in future developments to the game (we already know of dungeons, primals, etc.)

Anyways, just thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter. Enjoy!

P.s. If you were wondering how elementals work still... here is the rest of the post.

Yoshi P wrote:
What happens when raising resistances?
First and foremost, by raising resistances, players can reduce damage taken from any given damage type.
Example: Raising fire resistance reduces the amount of damage taken from the Fire spell.

However, this reduces damage taken only; raising your fire resistance rating will not enhance your ability to deal fire elemental damage.
In short, elemental resistances can be used to the advantage of players when fighting against powerful enemies with elemental attacks.

A great example of this would be increasing fire resistance to reduce damage taken from Ifrit. You won't take any damage if you manage to avoid his Eruption attack, but if you have trouble getting out of the way, raising your fire resistance may give you the edge you need to emerge triumphant.

Why doesn't elemental damage increase with our attributes?
Allowing players to strengthen their elemental attacks via raising elemental attributes would render it extremely difficult to preserve battle balance. In order to preserve this balance, we would need to ensure that:
Players can equally participate in all content regardless of class/job.
Players experience an appreciable increase in damage when elemental attributes are raised.

This leaves us with two options:
A. Balance content based on enhanced attack values.
B. Balance content based on base attack values.

By going with A, it's more than likely content will not be balanced to let every class participate. Classes that can exploit the enemy's weakness will be in higher demand. With B, players who enhance their attributes will breeze through fights unless we curb the effectiveness of their stats. At the same time, if players don't feel powerful from enhancing their stats, it defeats the purpose of designing the game in this manner, creating a contradiction in design.

We want to create content that's challenging, requiring several attempts to form successful strategies. However, there are very dedicated players out there who put efficiency before all else. If there's anything to take advantage of, they will find it. This is simply the way it works in an MMO.

Thinking in the long run, and taking into account the future addition of new classes and jobs, we have decided to adopt the spec whereby elemental attributes affect damage taken.

Do classes and elemental magic have an identity?
You're all probably thinking "Wouldn’t that make it pointless to choose between Fire and Blizzard, as they’d only be different in graphics?" We're working to make sure that's not the case.

I know you all have only had conjurer to play with so far in the beta test, but please keep in mind this class was meant to be primarily support. The value of its spells lie in the effects they offer, not necessarily their element.

Thaumaturge and Black Mage, on the other hand, will have their own unique system based on the elements, and their effectiveness will depend on player skill. I know many of you are going through every aspect of the beta with a fine-toothed comb, but please keep in mind that lots of changes are planned for phase 3. You may want to wait till then before forming a conclusion.

Skills and actions will be defined not only by their strength but also their effects. And when classes and jobs use them efficiently, the differences between them will become much more apparent. As I've mentioned, there's lots of stuff coming in phase 3. You can look forward to more details as testing time draws near.
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#2DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Jun 26 2013 at 1:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) its a solo game you know because according to many playing with others in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game is apparently an outdated concept
#3 Jun 26 2013 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
its a solo game you know because according to many playing with others in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game is apparently an outdated concept


Smiley: rolleyes
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#4 Jun 26 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
its a solo game you know because according to many playing with others in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game is apparently an outdated concept


Smiley: rolleyes




yup Wint its true.. and in 2015 single player games will be 90% multiplayer/ co op watch


edit: though if you wanna be technical theyre kinda doing that now but adding tacked on multiplayer to perfectly good single player games that dont even NEED it (teh last of us and uncharted games for example just to appease the CoD multiplayer crowd since thats were all the big bucks are coming from these days. I mean whats the last time a single player game sold 5mil+ units within 24 hours of its release?)So with gaming developers trying to please the biggest/current demographics in order to get more sales/players then with that very logic in about 2-4 years if things stay the same we'll be talking about how single player games are an "outdated concept these days" too wont we?

Edited, Jun 26th 2013 2:48pm by DuoMaxwellxx
#5 Jun 26 2013 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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What the **** are you talking about?
#6 Jun 26 2013 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
its a solo game you know because according to many playing with others in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game is apparently an outdated concept


Smiley: rolleyes




yup Wint its true.. and in 2015 single player games will be 90% multiplayer/ co op watch


edit: though if you wanna be technical theyre kinda doing that now but adding tacked on multiplayer to perfectly good single player games that dont even NEED it (teh last of us and uncharted games for example just to appease the CoD multiplayer crowd since thats were all the big bucks are coming from these days. I mean whats the last time a single player game sold 5mil+ units within 24 hours of its release?)So with gaming developers trying to please the biggest/current demographics in order to get more sales/players then with that very logic in about 2-4 years if things stay the same we'll be talking about how single player games are an "outdated concept these days" too wont we?

Edited, Jun 26th 2013 2:48pm by DuoMaxwellxx



Not to be rude, but doesn't that theory contradict the original statement you made? I'm just trying to understand your stance on XIV.
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#7 Jun 26 2013 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with OP. But it does seem to me like they're aiming for it to be whichever you want. You can make decent progress playing solo but I find being in even just a duo team is more rewarding and fun. There are probably plenty of things that you just outright can't do without a party, but that doesn't mean that you have to have one for practically everything. And like Yoshi-P said, they want there to be a use for every job.

That said, there does seem to be a bit of a turning point in MMO players these days. I've encountered more and more asocial people and don't fully understand why they're even playing a MMO. But that could just be perception or the games I'm choosing to play.
#8 Jun 26 2013 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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It's quite honestly what you make it. For me, my taste of dungeon (three lvl 15's) reassured me that pt is quite alive in ARR. There were constant shouts for it in every starting city and an Auction House worth of players camping outside said dungeons.

To be honest I wasn't sure how I would feel about solo storyline engagements until I caught myself trying to /p "CS", then realized no one was there to worry about. Curled up and enjoyed the CS like I didn't have 5 random players annoyed that I hadn't seen it yet! LOL

Edited, Jun 26th 2013 6:30pm by ShindaUsagi
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#9 Jun 26 2013 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I see Duo's point. A lot of recent MMOs are using the ability to solo most of their content as a way to appeal to new / casual MMO gamers. These players would have been turned off by FfXI and the prospect of spending days on end without getting into an EXP party. This could have been handled differently in a lot of cases, and FFXIV seems to have a decent way of dealing with it thus far.

As far as single player games go he is spot on. Today Multiplayer is a major selling point in video games. Sometimes it's to the point where critics will lower their scores or bash the game for not having multiplayer functionality. Even fable 3 had multiplayer (never mind that it was a giant steaming **** of pretentiousness). I wouldn't be surprised if in the future more RPG style games end up with multiplayer. Too bad Skyrim didn't have some option, that would have been fun with friends.
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#10 Jun 26 2013 at 4:27 PM Rating: Default
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apparently some people are very unproductive and have oodles of time to waste playing videogames.
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#11 Jun 26 2013 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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*sigh* There is no Solo play in an MMO. I really hate when people say this.

There is group content, and non-group content. There is no way to play solo on an MMO because you are ALWAYS online with other people.

FFXI's biggest handicap was that there was too little non-group content which often lead to people sitting around waiting for enough people. GW2s on the other hand is at the opposite end of the spectrum and doesn't have enough group content.

A good MMO needs a balance of both or it suffers in the long run. FFXIV looks to be shooting for that happy mix of Group and Non-group content that keeps the most people happy.
#12 Jun 26 2013 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wyldkat wrote:
*sigh* There is no Solo play in an MMO. I really hate when people say this.

There is group content, and non-group content. There is no way to play solo on an MMO because you are ALWAYS online with other people.

FFXI's biggest handicap was that there was too little non-group content which often lead to people sitting around waiting for enough people. GW2s on the other hand is at the opposite end of the spectrum and doesn't have enough group content.

A good MMO needs a balance of both or it suffers in the long run. FFXIV looks to be shooting for that happy mix of Group and Non-group content that keeps the most people happy.


I think that's strongly open to interpretation.

The entire ZAM forum could conga in a circle around me and my targeted mob and I would consider that solo.
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#13 Jun 26 2013 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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Except that you would still be playing the same game with other people, and those people can change the conditions of your surroundings. Especially in FFXIV where we can attack each other's mobs when not in the same group.

I never understood where the idea came from that you had to be in a party to interact with others in an online game. I was chuckling to myself during the last beta because there were so many people shying away from purple mobs.


#14 Jun 26 2013 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Wanted to extrapolate a bit, as I don't think I explained myself well enough in the previous post.

In order to play solo you have to play by yourself, based on the dictionary definition of Solo. However, that is no possible in an MMO because by it's very definition it is a multiplayer game.

What you are calling solo play, is more accurately described as Non-group play. You are playing the game outside of a group that is actively interacting with you. But you are still not playing the game by your self.
#15 Jun 26 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Helluvalot easier just to say solo though.
#16 Jun 26 2013 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
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According to Yoshi it's solo for most of the story content, and party end-game which I'm fine with. BUT. I didn't like how in the beta there isn't the option to party for story battles. The problem with XI was that it forced the player to party way too much. In XIV on the other hand, it forces you to solo, probably too much. Options are key.
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#17 Jun 26 2013 at 8:12 PM Rating: Default
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Wyldkat wrote:
Except that you would still be playing the same game with other people, and those people can change the conditions of your surroundings. Especially in FFXIV where we can attack each other's mobs when not in the same group.

I never understood where the idea came from that you had to be in a party to interact with others in an online game. I was chuckling to myself during the last beta because there were so many people shying away from purple mobs.





wait are you sayin theres no claim system in FFXIV? i,e if im solo and attack a mob anyone running by can attack it too? thats dumb.. I mean how then would drops be handled if I happened to grab a super rare monster that drops something rare? i wouldnt wanna have to compete with teh 10 other ppl who ran by and hit it after I had already done 90% of the damage... the ONLY way that would be good is if everyone got their own loot pool.. i.e when it dies what I see drop on my screen goes completely to me whereas the other person gets an entirely separate list (or identical list if theyre lucky) of drops that go to them as well.
#18 Jun 26 2013 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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Wyldkat wrote:
Wanted to extrapolate a bit, as I don't think I explained myself well enough in the previous post.

In order to play solo you have to play by yourself, based on the dictionary definition of Solo. However, that is no possible in an MMO because by it's very definition it is a multiplayer game.

What you are calling solo play, is more accurately described as Non-group play. You are playing the game outside of a group that is actively interacting with you. But you are still not playing the game by your self.


In every mmo ever created, "non-group play" is called solo. And really, if you are fighting a monster by yourself, and defeat it by yourself, you just solo'd that monster. One of the dictionary definitions of solo (there are a bunch) is "A performance or other undertaking carried out by an individual without assistance from others." Since no one helped you beat it, you were the only one, thus "solo". Just because you aren't the only person on your server doesn't mean you can't do something solo.
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#19 Jun 26 2013 at 8:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wyldkat wrote:
Except that you would still be playing the same game with other people, and those people can change the conditions of your surroundings. Especially in FFXIV where we can attack each other's mobs when not in the same group.

I never understood where the idea came from that you had to be in a party to interact with others in an online game. I was chuckling to myself during the last beta because there were so many people shying away from purple mobs.





wait are you sayin theres no claim system in FFXIV? i,e if im solo and attack a mob anyone running by can attack it too? thats dumb.. I mean how then would drops be handled if I happened to grab a super rare monster that drops something rare? i wouldnt wanna have to compete with teh 10 other ppl who ran by and hit it after I had already done 90% of the damage... the ONLY way that would be good is if everyone got their own loot pool.. i.e when it dies what I see drop on my screen goes completely to me whereas the other person gets an entirely separate list (or identical list if theyre lucky) of drops that go to them as well.


Drops go to initial claim, the reason why you can attack another mob is if you're both on the same hunt log or quest you both get credit for the kill.
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#20 Jun 26 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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I think I recall getting drops from monsters that I didn't get the initial claim on. It might be that so long as you get EXP from the monster you also get drops. That being said, it doesn't look like anything overly rare will drop from non-boss monsters/chests.
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#21 Jun 26 2013 at 8:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wyldkat wrote:
Except that you would still be playing the same game with other people, and those people can change the conditions of your surroundings. Especially in FFXIV where we can attack each other's mobs when not in the same group.

I never understood where the idea came from that you had to be in a party to interact with others in an online game. I was chuckling to myself during the last beta because there were so many people shying away from purple mobs.





wait are you sayin theres no claim system in FFXIV? i,e if im solo and attack a mob anyone running by can attack it too? thats dumb.. I mean how then would drops be handled if I happened to grab a super rare monster that drops something rare? i wouldnt wanna have to compete with teh 10 other ppl who ran by and hit it after I had already done 90% of the damage... the ONLY way that would be good is if everyone got their own loot pool.. i.e when it dies what I see drop on my screen goes completely to me whereas the other person gets an entirely separate list (or identical list if theyre lucky) of drops that go to them as well.


Drops go to initial claim, the reason why you can attack another mob is if you're both on the same hunt log or quest you both get credit for the kill.


Wow. I honestly thought that was just a beta glitch. Nice to have the random help when needed. Kind of a buzz kill when you don't. I did so enjoy the evil spectator glare after claim! LOL!
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#22 Jun 26 2013 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yoshi did say this was by design, and really it's helpful when there are so many people in the starting zones and you're all trying to claim mobs. The respawn rate is good imo, but this helps with stuff like the Ixali in Grid that you need to kill 3 different kinds of to complete a quest.
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#23 Jun 26 2013 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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The respawn is alright unless you are *gasp* solo in an area and mobs keep spawning on top of you XD. **** Slugs and Flytraps...
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#24 Jun 26 2013 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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You can get quest item drops, kill credits toward quests and hunt logs, and some XP on other people's mobs as long as you do enough damage to them. The online manual never is specific about the % needed, most likely to stave off people doing swoop ins for easy credit for a little while.

It's not so much that there is no claim as there is no hard claim. I loved it in GW2 as it tends to foster more community when people realize there's a benefit for helping people instead of just watching them die. Unless you are farming for drops, it's very beneficial to pile on the mobs to kill them quicker.
#25 Jun 26 2013 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
its a solo game you know because according to many playing with others in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game is apparently an outdated concept


Smiley: rolleyes




yup Wint its true.. and in 2015 single player games will be 90% multiplayer/ co op watch


edit: though if you wanna be technical theyre kinda doing that now but adding tacked on multiplayer to perfectly good single player games that dont even NEED it (teh last of us and uncharted games for example just to appease the CoD multiplayer crowd since thats were all the big bucks are coming from these days. I mean whats the last time a single player game sold 5mil+ units within 24 hours of its release?)So with gaming developers trying to please the biggest/current demographics in order to get more sales/players then with that very logic in about 2-4 years if things stay the same we'll be talking about how single player games are an "outdated concept these days" too wont we?

Edited, Jun 26th 2013 2:48pm by DuoMaxwellxx


The Last of Us and Uncharted are terrible examples of tacked on MP, both of which have amazing MP. A better example would have been Tomb Raider, which was garbage.
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#26 Jun 27 2013 at 12:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wyldkat wrote:
*sigh* There is no Solo play in an MMO. I really hate when people say this.

There is group content, and non-group content. There is no way to play solo on an MMO because you are ALWAYS online with other people.

FFXI's biggest handicap was that there was too little non-group content which often lead to people sitting around waiting for enough people. GW2s on the other hand is at the opposite end of the spectrum and doesn't have enough group content.

A good MMO needs a balance of both or it suffers in the long run. FFXIV looks to be shooting for that happy mix of Group and Non-group content that keeps the most people happy.


*sigh* semantics snobs...
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