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Mmorpg's First Impression Updated 07/03/2013Follow

#52 Jun 27 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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So then I would agree you've barely scratched the surface at this point Smiley: tongue
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#53 Jun 27 2013 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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The plot is different enough, especially with a 1.0 character, to take note. There are certain contexts that simply did not exist before, and there's finally a unifing element in the entire situation that was devoid for the entirety of 1.0

Only scene that really struck me as copy pasta was Ifrit, and there was an entire unique branch of storyline quests before it.
#54 Jun 27 2013 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
So then I would agree you've barely scratched the surface at this point Smiley: tongue


Well i did, i beat ifrit, joined the Immortal Flame! Etc Etc! I would say maybe you do not pay attention to the underlying story, as much as i do, which is ok, i never started in Grandina for example, and all i experienced there was new and shiny to me, but when i played the Uldah story, i found a lot of similarities between the story in 1.0 and ARR, because in 1.0 i did start in uldah, now i am speaking strictly of the underlying story line.

And yes Hyrist, they have added new context, and extra content, around the story, which is Good! All i am saying is you basically follow the same path of progression story wise as you did in 1.0.

You can all put away the pitchforks Smiley: sly
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#55 Jun 27 2013 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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If my comment is equivalent to pulling out a pitchfork then you need to grow some thicker skin Smiley: smile
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#56 Jun 27 2013 at 3:20 PM Rating: Default
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Oh not at all, that was more for Hyrist than you, you are easy to deal with, he is a bit more pesky.

And really thicker skin ? Really ? Where you not the one that threatened to ban me, because i said your review of beta phase 2 was biased ? And i need thicker skin ? Oh! You make me proud Wint!
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#57 Jun 27 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Oh not at all, that was more for Hyrist than you, you are easy to deal with, he is a bit more pesky.

And really thicker skin ? Really ? Where you not the one that threatened to ban me, because i said your review of beta phase 2 was biased ? And i need thicker skin ? Oh! You make me proud Wint!


We both know that had nothing to do with it but keep trying Ostia.
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#58 Jun 27 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Oh not at all, that was more for Hyrist than you, you are easy to deal with, he is a bit more pesky.

And really thicker skin ? Really ? Where you not the one that threatened to ban me, because i said your review of beta phase 2 was biased ? And i need thicker skin ? Oh! You make me proud Wint!


We both know that had nothing to do with it but keep trying Ostia.


You know.... I have been behaving for a while... And in the end you will win this argument.. So! I will drop It Smiley: lol

Now can we discuss the story ?
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#59 Jun 27 2013 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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We should start a spoiler thread for it.

I thought the CS's with the fight against the Garlean's to be fairly epic myself, loved all of that and very curious to see where it goes. Note that there is almost nothing of the Hydaelyn storyline yet, which is another big arc according to Yoshi.
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#60 Jun 27 2013 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
We should start a spoiler thread for it.

I thought the CS's with the fight against the Garlean's to be fairly epic myself, loved all of that and very curious to see where it goes. Note that there is almost nothing of the Hydaelyn storyline yet, which is another big arc according to Yoshi.


Yes! I do agree that it was a a good CS, and even tho it was based off an end of an era CS, it did give extra content, and a different point of view, that CS did provide extra content that was not There. Specially how one of the organisation XIII knock offs says that "He did not think he would see bahamut again" Considering bahamut has been sealed for thousands of years, he must be one OLD DUDE! I myself was more impressed with the CS involving the Empire, now we finally got more villains to kill, and they seem to not all be on the same Page.
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#61 Jun 27 2013 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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#62 Jun 27 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
We should start a spoiler thread for it.

I thought the CS's with the fight against the Garlean's to be fairly epic myself, loved all of that and very curious to see where it goes. Note that there is almost nothing of the Hydaelyn storyline yet, which is another big arc according to Yoshi.


Yes! I do agree that it was a a good CS, and even tho it was based off an end of an era CS, it did give extra content, and a different point of view, that CS did provide extra content that was not There. Specially how one of the organisation XIII knock offs says that "He did not think he would see bahamut again" Considering bahamut has been sealed for thousands of years, he must be one OLD DUDE! I myself was more impressed with the CS involving the Empire, now we finally got more villains to kill, and they seem to not all be on the same Page.


The opening cut scene had me reminiscing on the first time I started up XI...I couldn't wait to be powerful and have my revenge on some Orcs! I felt the same exact way after the ARR opening trailer! **** you Garlean Empire, you shall eat dust!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TGe6PC-Tk4
#63 Jun 27 2013 at 4:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Regardless of all that, this is FFXIV and the dev costs are clearly more than 25 mil...


For some reason I want to say I saw a number of them being in the 250m range of production. It sounds absolutely absurd to me, but I guess it's more believable if you consider they basically made two games. From here, we know they allegedly have 900k beta users. Let's be generous and say they all stick around and then another 350k join post-launch. We're now at 1.25m users. Honestly, I'm forgetting the proposed sub fee or if there'll be discounts, but let's use $15 since that's a rough standard.

250,000,000 / (15.00 * 1,250,000) = 13.34

So in 13.34 months, they'll have made their money back. Of course, we can't really use that number since it doesn't account future dev cost and how much XIV actually gets from their subs while SE funnels off some to pay for other things. I'm feeling like 2 years a fairer estimate, but sh*t's printing money even if you halve the sub numbers. So, while shooting for the proverbial WoW-killer is always a losing proposition, I dunno, I think this may have the fairest shot compared to other recent launches. Rift had the disadvantage of no franchise power and mediocre graphics. I don't think I've ever played a good Star Wars game. GW2 overhyped itself, fell short, and has been @#%^ing terrible about non-seasonal content. Aion was far too grindy and terribly imbalanced for a "PvP game". Can look at other ones like Warhammer, Age of Conan, TERA, City of Heroes, LotR:O, and numerous others to see they either had glaring faults at the start or just didn't age well. And indeed most didn't have the safety net XIV does via SE. I think if SE tried for XI 2.0 with XIV, it'd flop again. And assuming the endgame isn't as unforgiving about progression as I've seen others, I think SE will be in a good place. They've still got work to do, but I'd also be worried if an MMO said they didn't...

Edited, Jun 28th 2013 5:00am by Seriha
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#64 Jun 27 2013 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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In my view, the unknown part of the equation is...platforms.

Remember that PS3 has no "solid" MMO's at all, before ARR comes around. And I don't think it will have any, since its development cycle is ending at 2014 somewhere when PS4 will take over (and then only games such as "FIFA 15" may continue having a PS3 version for sometime).

Now, it's kind of a big deal to open up to an audience of millions of console owners. I'm not saying that even...10% of them will be interested in the game, but heck, 1% of total PS3 user base is still more than half a million in itself.

Considering FF 13 (...Not exactly a shining jewel in FF series) plus FF 13-2 sold over 9.5 million copies together (!), I'd say there is a good deal of interest to come in ARR from PS3 owners.

Also, PS4. Considering PS4 will have basically no hardware limitations (its RAM alone is 14 times as large as PS3's), if they time their launch in the first few months of PS4 lifetime, they can become a solid seller there, with beautiful graphics and an Eorzea inviting RPG players to immerse in there.

Remember that demographics such as WOW or SWTOR or EVE or whatever are PC only.

As such, considering:

a) Japan numbers (Let's estimate some 300,000 subscriptions being from there alone, if not more)
b) Console owners worldwide
c) Western fans of the series
d) Western fans of MMORPG's looking for a "quality" game to subscribe to

...I think a million is very doable. I can't say if they'll keep the million active forever, but it's certainly very doable.

As for the development costs - I'm not sure if $250 mil. is accurate, SWTOR supposedly had >200m. and the figures were basically maddening -I do wonder where the **** they spent that money, apart from story quests and voiceovers-.

Even if it is, there is a telling difference:

There's no "EA"-type of entity wanting their money back. Investors of SE surely will want their money / share value back, but since original XIV flopped, it's "damage mitigation mode" now.

I believe whatever costs are not directly related to ARR, but are related to 1.0 have been budgeted to be recuperated in a long period of time. Regardless, I feel they won't have a problem getting their money back in general.

A key reason for that is that SE does have many staff members (developers, artists, music composers, etc) on retainer for all its projects, not ARR in particular. So there's no "Bioware Los Angeles" studio at risk here, or something. I'm sure the team being kept busy with ARR alone must be quite small, certainly people like 3D artists or composers are not tied to ARR in particular.
#65 Jun 27 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Very pertinent point Sovjohn. I think we can better estimate how console releases will affect subs by viewing the sub numbers for XI when its console version was released. If I remember correctly the sub numbers soared once the console versions released.

If you really wanted to get a more accurate idea you can cross reference it to the total number of MMO players the year XI console was released and compare it to total number of MMO players in 2013. At the end of the day with how the game has improved I could see the 1mil subs as a possibility.
#66 Jun 27 2013 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
[quote=BartelX]Regardless of all that, this is FFXIV and the dev costs are clearly more than 25 mil.../quote]

For some reason I want to say I saw a number of them being in the 250m range of production. It sounds absolutely absurd to me, but I guess it's more believable if you consider they basically made two games. From here, we know they allegedly have 900k beta users. Let's be generous and say they all stick around and then another 350k join post-launch. We're now at 1.25m users. Honestly, I'm forgetting the proposed sub fee or if there'll be discounts, but let's use $15 since that's a rough standard.

250,000,000 / (15.00 * 1,250,000) = 13.34

So in 13.34 months, they'll have made their money back. Of course, we can't really use that number since it doesn't account future dev cost and how much XIV actually gets from their subs while SE funnels off some to pay for other things. I'm feeling like 2 years a fairer estimate, but sh*t's printing money even if you halve the sub numbers. So, while shooting for the proverbial WoW-killer is always a losing proposition, I dunno, I think this may have the fairest shot compared to other recent launches. Rift had the disadvantage of no franchise power and mediocre graphics. I don't think I've ever played a good Star Wars game. GW2 overhyped itself, fell short, and has been @#%^ing terrible about non-seasonal content. Aion was far too grindy and terribly imbalanced for a "PvP game". Can look at other ones like Warhammer, Age of Conan, TERA, City of Heroes, LotR:O, and numerous others to see they either had glaring faults at the start or just didn't age well. And indeed most didn't have the safety net XIV does via SE. I think if SE tried for XI 2.0 with XIV, it'd flop again. And assuming the endgame isn't as unforgiving about progression as I've seen others, I think SE will be in a good place. They've still got work to do, but I'd also be worried if an MMO said they didn't...

This game has spent nowhere near close to 250mil. When you speak about funneling. I think this game will be a reverse of XI for awhile. Other profits will help fund ARR in the short term for sure. People forget that SE isn't just a game developer like many other companies. They have a foot in the music, toy, and film industry as well in addition to being a major publisher in the videogames industry. This is what allows them to approach this as they have.

Final Fantasy is in a wonderful position if they do not completely alienate the players who come into this from playing the offline titles only. Which FF is your favorite of all the Final Fantasies? Now not saying ARR is going to be everyone's favorite. But imagine if it was. What if SE designed a universe you absolutely love and then you find out that the game is never going to stop getting new lands, content, story, gear, etc. I would play it a long time. To achieve this, ARR doesn't have to become a massive single player mmo. It just has to have compelling content outside the raid/dungeon mmo content. Some content that is created for users to participate in even when they don't feel like doing the large group content.

Content for smaller groups that contribute to the larger whole like:
Free companies
Crafting gear and items
Crafting ship/house/airship/magitek parts
An expansive chocbo system that extends beyond mounts(see the other chocobo dream thread on these forums)
Magitek battle circuits
Chocobo racing leagues
Some low man content in dungeons or questlines
PvP variety beyond the standard mmo PvP


An mmorpg at heart with a sprinkle of Massive Single Player rpg. It's a concept that Nintendo and other developers are beginning to look into this generation of consoles. Only they are doing the reverse and creating a Massive single player game at heart with a sprinkle of mmo.

And last but not least. I do not know how huge the benefits will be. But ARR is getting released in China.

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 7:58pm by sandpark
#67 Jun 27 2013 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:



well if you wanna be technical "completely different" from teh original does no t equal better game/great product.. it could simply mean "its nothing like that last pile of crap but its still a pile of crap"


I'm not being a smart *** here... but do you write "teh" on purpose (because I see it in every post you make) or are you just always typing at the speed of light Smiley: smile

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 8:52pm by Parathyroid

Also, it's definitely not a pile of crap... if you have played it you know that.

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 8:53pm by Parathyroid
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#68 Jun 27 2013 at 6:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Parathyroid wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:



well if you wanna be technical "completely different" from teh original does no t equal better game/great product.. it could simply mean "its nothing like that last pile of crap but its still a pile of crap"


I'm not being a smart *** here... but do you write "teh" on purpose (because I see it in every post you make) or are you just always typing at the speed of light Smiley: smile

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 8:52pm by Parathyroid

Also, it's definitely not a pile of crap... if you have played it you know that.

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 8:53pm by Parathyroid


I do it all the time too, the difference between us is I go back and fix it Smiley: tongue
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#69 Jun 27 2013 at 7:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Parathyroid wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:



well if you wanna be technical "completely different" from teh original does no t equal better game/great product.. it could simply mean "its nothing like that last pile of crap but its still a pile of crap"


I'm not being a smart *** here... but do you write "teh" on purpose (because I see it in every post you make) or are you just always typing at the speed of light Smiley: smile

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 8:52pm by Parathyroid

Also, it's definitely not a pile of crap... if you have played it you know that.

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 8:53pm by Parathyroid


I do it all the time too, the difference between us is I go back and fix it Smiley: tongue


Being grammatically correct is teh sux0rz Smiley: lol
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#70 Jun 28 2013 at 12:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
We should start a spoiler thread for it.

I thought the CS's with the fight against the Garlean's to be fairly epic myself, loved all of that and very curious to see where it goes. Note that there is almost nothing of the Hydaelyn storyline yet, which is another big arc according to Yoshi.



->->->->->->->I like this spoiler thread :D oh and also Teravibe is awesome!
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#71 Jun 28 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
In my opinion, anyone trying to give an impression having not completed the mission content, getting to 20, joining a GC and getting your chocobo, truly hasn't experienced enough yet.


The real question is how many reviewers will actually do that?

Not saying it's their fault they can't... I'm sure they have tons of other things to do besides review FFXIV... But really, can we expect most reviewers to play several days worth of gameplay before they make their decision?

I 100% agree you're right... I just fear it won't happen.
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#72 Jun 28 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Teravibe wrote:
Wint wrote:
We should start a spoiler thread for it.

I thought the CS's with the fight against the Garlean's to be fairly epic myself, loved all of that and very curious to see where it goes. Note that there is almost nothing of the Hydaelyn storyline yet, which is another big arc according to Yoshi.



->->->->->->->I like this spoiler thread :D oh and also Teravibe is awesome!


+1
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#73 Jun 28 2013 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Parathyroid wrote:
Wint wrote:
In my opinion, anyone trying to give an impression having not completed the mission content, getting to 20, joining a GC and getting your chocobo, truly hasn't experienced enough yet.


The real question is how many reviewers will actually do that?

Not saying it's their fault they can't... I'm sure they have tons of other things to do besides review FFXIV... But really, can we expect most reviewers to play several days worth of gameplay before they make their decision?

I 100% agree you're right... I just fear it won't happen.


Half-decent MMO reviewers have, for a long time now, reserved judgement until they've actually leveled in the game. Its a common secret that many features of MMO's in general start after level 10, and carry on level 20+, so if someone opted to make a...level 3 character and leave it at that, it wouldn't be a review at all, either way.

Eurogamer (my favorite site re: gaming) definitely does that, I recall for instance its SWTOR and GW2 reviews coming some days after the official launch, to accommodate leveling.
#74 Jun 28 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sovjohn wrote:
...if they time their launch in the first few months of PS4 lifetime, they can become a solid seller there, with beautiful graphics and an Eorzea inviting RPG players to immerse in there.


Totally agree. I think FFXIV will help sell PS4 and PS4 will help sell FFXIV.

I know at least one person who got the PS3 recently because of the FFXIV beta (and the Last of Us).
#75 Jun 28 2013 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
Sovjohn wrote:
...if they time their launch in the first few months of PS4 lifetime, they can become a solid seller there, with beautiful graphics and an Eorzea inviting RPG players to immerse in there.


Totally agree. I think FFXIV will help sell PS4 and PS4 will help sell FFXIV.

I know at least one person who got the PS3 recently because of the FFXIV beta (and the Last of Us).


I think the biggest deterrent for the consoles is the timing. Yes, I'm doing my 'toldja so' dance here, but I predicted that Yoshi would announce PS3 release date shortly before the announcement for PS4. Now the question is, do I go buy a soon to be outdated console to play at launch or do I start months(possibly longer) waiting on PS4 release? Those things coupled with the fact that PC generally has more to offer MMO gamers make it seem unlikely that console releases will make a big impact on sales/subs.
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#76 Jun 28 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think of things this way. It'd be absurd for someone to buy a PS3 just for ARR. But if they:

a) Already have one (a good proportion of people do) or

b) Even nowadays consider getting one at the traditionally low prices PS3's can be found these days, with PS4 just around the corner (And play games such as The Last of Us, Heavy Rain, Metal Gear Solid, and about 5 other "heavy hitters")

...They're good to go, and can also try ARR if they don't have a PC handy to play it with.

But there are quite a lot of households more immersed in console gaming than PC gaming, for a variety of reasons, and as I said, FF XIII & XIII-2 did sell more than 9.5 million copies, so "the console fanbase" is there.

Even if just a 10% of these people would like to check out ARR, and heck, half of them stay around for the ride, combined with a healthy PC player base, here's your million players.

It's really quite simple. If the game was called Rift, Third World or Banana Planet, we wouldn't really be having this conversation.
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