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Racial Stat Differences are the same at 50Follow

#1 Jun 27 2013 at 3:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just watched this video where the guy did come calculations via the lodestone character search and found out that the level 1 stat differences between races are the exact same at level 50. So no need to worry about min/maxing really as the biggest difference there will ever be in a stat is 6 points.
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PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

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#2 Jun 27 2013 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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What is the max value for stats? This is also important as a difference in 6 points from 44 to 50 (12% difference) is not the same as a difference in 6 points between 194 and 200 (3% difference).
#3 Jun 27 2013 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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It varies depending on Job, but for his example of monk STR was around 230 without gear added in. I would expect your Job's primary stats to be around 200+ while non-essential stats will hover around 100 points. The gear of the characters he was looking at added 120-140 to strength on top of the base. add to that the bonus points and I think you're looking at a worse case scenario of a 1-2% difference. Of course, you'll always have other stats that are a couple points higher than others since all races have 120 stat points total at level 1.



Edited, Jun 27th 2013 6:33pm by DamienSScott
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FFXI: DamienSlvrblade Race: Elvaan Nation: San d'Oria Server: Sylph 2002-2007, Phoenix 2012
PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

FFXIV: Damien Scott Race: Duskwight Elezen GC: Limsa Lominsa Server: Ultros
DoW GLA50 ACN50 PUG50 MAR 50 Rest30+
DoH/DoL All 40+
#4 Jun 27 2013 at 4:38 PM Rating: Excellent
Why do people call it min/maxing? Seems to me like there's no "min" involved... it's all about the "max."
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#5 Jun 27 2013 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Why do people call it min/maxing? Seems to me like there's no "min" involved... it's all about the "max."


It has to do with D&D to maximize your important stats you need to minimize your unimportant stats. So if your a warrior you max out your strength but minimize your intelligence, so instead of a more balanced character you have a super strong warrior that cant even speak common.
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#6 Jun 27 2013 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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DamienSScott wrote:
It varies depending on Job, but for his example of monk STR was around 230 without gear added in. I would expect your Job's primary stats to be around 200+ while non-essential stats will hover around 100 points. The gear of the characters he was looking at added 120-140 to strength on top of the base. add to that the bonus points and I think you're looking at a worse case scenario of a 1-2% difference. Of course, you'll always have other stats that are a couple points higher than others since all races have 120 stat points total at level 1.



Edited, Jun 27th 2013 6:33pm by DamienSScott



In other words as you level the percentage it affects will be less (25 vs 21 [16% difference] and 235 vs 231 [2% difference]). It all really depends on how much dps we do now. If at lvl 50 we are doing 1,000 dps, it would take 50 seconds for Miquote to do an extra 1,000 dps (Lala total DPS @ 50 seconds: 50,000. Miquote DPS @50 seconds: 51,000). I would say that 1000 dps could be gained or lost purely on play style.

This takes away much of my concern with stat allocations. I kinda wish there was a way to re-allocate stat points still.
#7 Jun 27 2013 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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According to ffxivguild.com, race stats account less than a 0.5% difference end-game. So yes, I also don't think racial differences are that important in the game.
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#8Killua125, Posted: Jun 27 2013 at 6:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That kinda sucks, but I guess it fits with Yoshi-P's "baby's first MMO" casual vision.
#9 Jun 27 2013 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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PavetlXIV wrote:
According to ffxivguild.com, race stats account less than a 0.5% difference end-game. So yes, I also don't think racial differences are that important in the game.



Doesn't it all depend on our DPS, damage modifiers, and stat bonuses? I'd like to see his numbers and what he used.

Killua125 wrote:
That kinda sucks, but I guess it fits with Yoshi-P's "baby's first MMO" casual vision.

I sort of liked the Tarutaru racial stats in FFXI. I even liked playing melee on it (which I usually did), even if I was a bit crippled.


You could always pump int and mnd onto your Maurader lalafell if you wanted to do that.

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 8:24pm by burtonsnow
#10 Jun 27 2013 at 7:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
That kinda sucks, but I guess it fits with Yoshi-P's "baby's first MMO" casual vision.

I sort of liked the Tarutaru racial stats in FFXI. I even liked playing melee on it (which I usually did), even if I was a bit crippled.


When I wasn't healin' , I was Stealin'.

When i was free of Raise requests, I tended to run around on THF/Nin Taru. although , modesty aside, people still only loved me for the treasure hunter AF2 + knife... I was outclassed by a few min/max mithra, not much else.

It was a LOT of work, and a good bit of time to collect all the bits, Monk took a bit more work, but was quite doable.

I knew one **** of a Taru Paladin back in the day when it was considered sheer madness on the Dynamis Lord, Jorm or Tiamat.

Taru Power... Lala still sounds like a Teletubby.


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#11 Jun 27 2013 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
That kinda sucks, but I guess it fits with Yoshi-P's "baby's first MMO" casual vision.

I sort of liked the Tarutaru racial stats in FFXI. I even liked playing melee on it (which I usually did), even if I was a bit crippled.


How does that suck? It means you can play whatever race you really want to without fear of lagging behind. I still regret not going galka in FFXI for the added HP and str (was hume) on all my DD classes (didn't play mages). Now, I won't be worried about that at all. I think it's nice.

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 9:46pm by BartelX
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#12 Jun 27 2013 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
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It takes a special breed to enjoy being pigeonholed for good and/or bad. Some people actually like/take pride in going against the grain. When there is no grain it bothers them as they can't be unique and/or special. It's psychology. For me I'm glad to see it. I would much rather be identified by superior skill than be excluded due to a choice like character race.

With the skill change system it is unrealistic to expect race to be used as a grand differentiator as every character can be every class. If you were to limit a character due to racial stats the tendency would be to spread out the jobs across multiple characters to make sure that your toons are not held back by the game. I see that sort of requirement to be a negative impact on the social aspect of the game as you'd have to switch out of characters as population demands, manage linkshell lists with multiple characters per player by default, and in general removing a large psychological tether between a player and their character(s).

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 9:04pm by Krycis
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#13 Jun 27 2013 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
That kinda sucks, but I guess it fits with Yoshi-P's "baby's first MMO" casual vision.

I sort of liked the Tarutaru racial stats in FFXI. I even liked playing melee on it (which I usually did), even if I was a bit crippled.


How does that suck? It means you can play whatever race you really want to without fear of lagging behind. I still regret not going galka in FFXI for the added HP and str (was hume) on all my DD classes (didn't play mages). Now, I won't be worried about that at all. I think it's nice.

Edited, Jun 27th 2013 9:46pm by BartelX



I don't like the way he put it, but I think I agree with Killua. In FFXI I had such a hard time picking a race, so I just ended up going hume so that I wouldn't ever feel like I was lagging behind with any job. Like you, I didn't play mage jobs and wished I had originally gone Elvaan.

That aside, I still enjoy my race choice being meaningful instead of just cosmetic. I haven't really paid attention to any of the race differences in XIV. I was just assuming that they were going to be there. I was actually going to commit to going lalafell and having lower hp, but a **** ton pile of mp with alot higher int and mnd.

It's not a deal breaker for me by no means, but having that meaningful choice right from the character start screen would have been nice. I guess now it's just make em as pretty as you can!
#14 Jun 27 2013 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I ended up picking Elvaan after much deliberation. At the time I was hellbent on being a Paladin so I figured that they had the best overall stats for one. Even as a caster MP management never seemed to be an issue, especially post Refresh. The low Dex may have been noticeable when I started the game, but after capping some skills and eating some sushi it was a non-issue. I never bothered with Black Mage though. The 30+ point disparity between an Elvaan and Taru BLM was far too much for me to bother with. It was sad watching Elvaan BLMs hit bosses for 6-700 while Tarus were blowing them up with 1000-1200s. I know they evened it out a bit later on, but it was an issue for me back in my hayday.

All in all I did enjoy the huge stat differences between races in FFXI. when I switched to WoW I missed it greatly. Then shortly after that they homogenized all mobs to have the same stats as one another based on level... So lame.
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FFXI: DamienSlvrblade Race: Elvaan Nation: San d'Oria Server: Sylph 2002-2007, Phoenix 2012
PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

FFXIV: Damien Scott Race: Duskwight Elezen GC: Limsa Lominsa Server: Ultros
DoW GLA50 ACN50 PUG50 MAR 50 Rest30+
DoH/DoL All 40+
#15 Jun 27 2013 at 9:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I like that the differences are low, I don't like feeling gimped by what my choice of race is. It being different obviously makes sense, but it's still annoying.
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#16 Jun 27 2013 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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The optimal scenario for me would be to allow players to distribute stat points however they see fit, irrespective of race. If someone wants to have the most badass galka blm with tons of int and zero str, that should be allowed. That having been said, I'm still happy with the game mechanics overall, even though it doesn't meet my opinion of what is the best approach.
#17 Jun 28 2013 at 2:34 AM Rating: Good
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schneiderw wrote:
The optimal scenario for me would be to allow players to distribute stat points however they see fit, irrespective of race. If someone wants to have the most badass galka blm with tons of int and zero str, that should be allowed. That having been said, I'm still happy with the game mechanics overall, even though it doesn't meet my opinion of what is the best approach.


That is how it was when the game launched. Each level you gained so many stat points that you could allocate as you saw fit. at certain thresholds it would cost more and more points to raise the stat a single point. I thought that this system was awesome, however like pretty much everything at 1.0 launch it was poorly implemented. Your stats were the same regardless of class. I believe you could respec them, however you could only return so many stat points over an hour or two. This made changing classes on the fly nigh impossible.

I think that FFXI and FFXIV are some of the few games where all racial stats should be nearly the same. With the ability to be every job on a single character you should have the freedom to do so without feeling gimped compared to another race. Some might think that it didn't matter a whole lot in FFXI, but I ask those people, "Would you choose an Elvaan over a Taru BLM for your group if all other factors were the same?"

Edited, Jun 28th 2013 4:35am by DamienSScott
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FFXI: DamienSlvrblade Race: Elvaan Nation: San d'Oria Server: Sylph 2002-2007, Phoenix 2012
PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

FFXIV: Damien Scott Race: Duskwight Elezen GC: Limsa Lominsa Server: Ultros
DoW GLA50 ACN50 PUG50 MAR 50 Rest30+
DoH/DoL All 40+
#18 Jun 28 2013 at 3:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
at certain thresholds it would cost more and more points to raise the stat a single point. I thought that this system was awesome,

Yes, in principle this was a clearly better approach; because the thresholds also meant that it was easier to balance out
the racial differences, and much more "expensive" (= ineffective) to accentuate them. And it encouraged deliberation
about whether 1 additional INT point on your Conjurer was really worth the equivalent of 50 hit points in VIT. That was
"real choice" in a way. You were allowed to build that glass nuke, or a robust conventional bomber.
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