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#52 Jun 30 2013 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.


Screenshot or this didn't happen.

Seriously, I've run all the group content in the beta, as a whm. I'll be DAMNED if they could have done it without me.

And I did play WoW, and you can get to max level without a healer. There's never a required dungeon on your way to cap. The level 15 dungeon bosses adhere to your "add more adds" formula, but not the later ones.

For example, the second dungeon in Gridania (forget the name) has a boss that shoots out poisonous pods among the battlefield that explode and poison you if you get too close. You need to avoid them and have a ranged character destroy them while focusing on the boss. The slime mini-boss in Copperbell requires you to have a member push a lever to spawn Bomb enemies and then NOT kill them, but let them blow up on the slime to break it into smaller slimes.

If you don't run out of the bomb range, you die, also. Then spriggans start spawning that specifically attack the bombs so that they won't blow up.

I never got involved in WoW in any hardcore manner, no. But you are the only person I've ever seen refer to WoW as "hard."

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 8:06am by Louiscool
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#53 Jun 30 2013 at 6:46 AM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
I never got involved in WoW in any hardcore manner, no. But you are the only person I've ever seen refer to WoW as "hard."


They're called hardmode instances for a reason. There are a few dozen guilds who pretty much do nothing but try for 'world first' achievements when these instances are unlocked. Think full-time job except instead of clocking in at work, you log into WoW. Hours a day for days a week, people who have done it for years(skilled veterans) bash their heads against difficult content for weeks and in some cases, months.

I recall a group who got one of the 'world first' titles for full clear of an instance stating in an interview that it took them well over 600 attempts on a single boss before they finally got it down. One boss out of half a dozen. In many cases these instances require perfect execution or it's a wipe. It's not like FFXI where if a key player died you could just toss an elemental seal and sleep on the boss while you raised them and then kite it around for 5 minutes while you waited for weakness to wear off. You only get a few raises to use in battle and after that you're screwed until combat ends.

I think the most overlooked element to why WoW was considered difficult is the amount of coordination between players that was required. Everyone needed to be aware of their proximity to the mob, their tanks, their healers and many times objects or areas of the environment that needed to be avoided, rushed to for cover or interacted with in some way. Not that they didn't exist, but there were rarely instances where you could pretty much guarantee a win solely based on the fact that 2 or 3 players paid attention to when they needed to interrupt the 1 thing that would wipe your group.



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#54 Jun 30 2013 at 6:49 AM Rating: Default
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You guys know this game came out and failed once already... Don't know why people saying it hasn't come out or still in beta. They seem to forget the disaster that happened as if it was a different game.
#55 Jun 30 2013 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
I never got involved in WoW in any hardcore manner, no. But you are the only person I've ever seen refer to WoW as "hard."


They're called hardmode instances for a reason. There are a few dozen guilds who pretty much do nothing but try for 'world first' achievements when these instances are unlocked. Think full-time job except instead of clocking in at work, you log into WoW. Hours a day for days a week, people who have done it for years(skilled veterans) bash their heads against difficult content for weeks and in some cases, months.

I recall a group who got one of the 'world first' titles for full clear of an instance stating in an interview that it took them well over 600 attempts on a single boss before they finally got it down. One boss out of half a dozen. In many cases these instances require perfect execution or it's a wipe. It's not like FFXI where if a key player died you could just toss an elemental seal and sleep on the boss while you raised them and then kite it around for 5 minutes while you waited for weakness to wear off. You only get a few raises to use in battle and after that you're screwed until combat ends.

I think the most overlooked element to why WoW was considered difficult is the amount of coordination between players that was required. Everyone needed to be aware of their proximity to the mob, their tanks, their healers and many times objects or areas of the environment that needed to be avoided, rushed to for cover or interacted with in some way. Not that they didn't exist, but there were rarely instances where you could pretty much guarantee a win solely based on the fact that 2 or 3 players paid attention to when they needed to interrupt the 1 thing that would wipe your group.


It should also be noted that hardmode dungeons were introduced after WotLK. In other words, when the game shipped, it didn't have Hard Mode. So while this level of co-ordination is required for a hard mode dungeon, the dungeon is specifically a raiding dungeon that exists outside the actual "storyline" (since WoW's storylining is not exactly made clear for people who play the game and can be missed entirely as no dungeon is required for progressing in the game), and is in fact something that was added YEARS after launch. Additionally it was content specifically modified to intentionally challenge players beyond even a standard dungeon.

Why is it that people are expecting FFXIV to have this level of complexity and difficulty at launch? This sort of dungeon takes time to build and properly balance so that, while hard, it is not impossible to complete. The core mechanics are all there and working. Polish them a bit more, work out some of the kinks, then we can start talking about end-game raids and then these comparisons to WoW start making some form of sense.

Right now, people are comparing WoW's raiding dungeons, a totally OPTIONAL section of gameplay, with the MANDATORY storylined dungeons of FFXIV. You really can't. The two don't live in the same area of content development. At all. They cannot make it impossible to progress through the STORYLINE, but that's also how you unlock pretty much all the content. Chocobos, Retainers, even your Inn room. All of these are gated behind STORYLINE. So making it some epic raid where you are required to have a set group is utterly stupid. If players can beat it without a healer, can out prepare and outplay the dungeon, then I for one see that as a POSITIVE.

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 9:22am by Pawkeshup
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#56 Jun 30 2013 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Fine... nothing to see here Smiley: frown

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 10:19am by Parathyroid
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#57 Jun 30 2013 at 9:28 AM Rating: Default
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.




Hmm lets see here

WoW = Nov 2004
FFXIV = BETA = NOT EVEN RELEASE YET = OBVIOUSLY WoW is vastly different/superior at this point... heck even FFXI SUCKED when it first came out (in Japan) it took TWO YEAR to get good (which is when we FINALLY got it).. point being.. how about we compare WoW during BET to FFXIV BETA and THEN we can have a fair argument

Now you telling us WoW had all the stuff you just mentioned during its beta?


lol i defend the game and get subbed.. now Im 100% certain someones just going to ALL my posts not even reading them and just on a karma bomb spree
#58 Jun 30 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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sixstroke wrote:
I regret to inform you all that I will not be joining you all.

I woke up a early this morning to continue some grinding on my THM/Conj(my favorite so far) and I realized I had very little good to say about the game. I found myself just wanting to get to the next zone to see the awesome landscapes(which they are) however, that just doesn't justify the monthly payment and time invested.

I wish you all well! I will be stopping in, here and there to see how the game is going because both FF and FF:online hold a dear place in my heart!

Good Luck Everyone!


Wow are you playing the same game I am? I am loving FFXIV: ARR so far, I'm having the opposite problem, I can't put it down!
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#59 Jun 30 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.




Hmm lets see here

WoW = Nov 2004
FFXIV = BETA = NOT EVEN RELEASE YET = OBVIOUSLY WoW is vastly different/superior at this point... heck even FFXI SUCKED when it first came out (in Japan) it took TWO YEAR to get good (which is when we FINALLY got it).. point being.. how about we compare WoW during BET to FFXIV BETA and THEN we can have a fair argument

Now you telling us WoW had all the stuff you just mentioned during its beta?


lol i defend the game and get subbed.. now Im 100% certain someones just going to ALL my posts not even reading them and just on a karma bomb spree


I'd hate to be in an ally getting jumped with you as my help if that's what you call "defending" XIV.
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#60 Jun 30 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mopdaddy wrote:
You guys know this game came out and failed once already... Don't know why people saying it hasn't come out or still in beta. They seem to forget the disaster that happened as if it was a different game.


I played version 1.0 for a short while, it is a different game completely.
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#61 Jun 30 2013 at 9:43 AM Rating: Default
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Parathyroid wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.




Hmm lets see here

WoW = Nov 2004
FFXIV = BETA = NOT EVEN RELEASE YET = OBVIOUSLY WoW is vastly different/superior at this point... heck even FFXI SUCKED when it first came out (in Japan) it took TWO YEAR to get good (which is when we FINALLY got it).. point being.. how about we compare WoW during BET to FFXIV BETA and THEN we can have a fair argument

Now you telling us WoW had all the stuff you just mentioned during its beta?


lol i defend the game and get subbed.. now Im 100% certain someones just going to ALL my posts not even reading them and just on a karma bomb spree


I'd hate to be in an ally getting jumped with you as my help if that's what you call "defending" XIV.



sounds like defense to me.. he claims how much better a 9 year old game is than a beta... how is that even a fair comparison? of course a game thats been out 9 years is gonna have a lot more content and be more polished than something that hasnt even been officially released yet, correct?
#62 Jun 30 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.

I hate to go off topic here but it has to be said.

Ostia your comparison is far from fair. What you (and someone else after you) are referring to are RAIDS (10man+ content). How you can compare a 4man dungeon to a 10+ man raid is absolutely laughable. Yes the hardest of the hard RAIDS in WoW are pretty darn hard but we're not referring to end game raids we're referring to low level dungeons. Now if you compare the low level 4man dungeons in ARR we've seen so far in the beta to low level 5man dungeons in WoW then we can at least make a comparison. So far from tanking with my MRD I've noticed that there isn't much of a difficulty difference OVERALL between the lower level dungeons of the 2 games, but ARR does test you with MECHANICS much earlier than WoW. In WoW you can "faceroll" you're way through any lower level dungeon and come out on top. I've played WoW since the addition of Naxx to the game back in patch 1.11, and it's gotten incredibly easy in the low levels to the point that I dread making new characters because I know I'm in for pure boredom until level cap. In WoW you can ignore most of the mechanics until you get near level cap, from what I've experienced in ARR you get combat mechanic experience in the first what, 2 hours of the game? I've loved FFXI, WoW, and my time so far in ARR beta, but my time is definitely done with FFXI (played since NA release, enjoyed abyssea but I'm done with it) and WoW (played since 1.11, absolutely HATE the direction the game and Blizzard are both headed in general).

S/N: I forgot who it was but to whoever was talking about 600 attempts at a boss, I must must must must stress the fact that they are end-game RAID bosses that require 10/25 people to complete and are the Heroic/Hardmode versions of the encounters. I'll also share a secret that many people don't realize when they talk about attempts at a boss. Many of the top guilds will do LOTS of dry runs before they even waste consumables as otherwise they're just wasting time/currency. They call for a wipe if the mechanics arent done properly as its faster to wipe now rather than to wipe another 5 mins into the fight because you're down a dps, a healer, or tank because of failed mechanics and have to start all over. That way they can also practice the mechanics to get each part down 1 segment at a time. Once they feel they've gotten a mechanic down they progress to the next mechanic and so forth until they feel they can do the whole fight with as little error as possible and as quickly as possible. They also do this to make subsequent farm runs easier.

The amount of misinformation in some of the posts I've seen in this thread is staggering. I'm sure there's a lot more I missed but these just really stood out.

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 11:49am by Seraphknight777
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#63 Jun 30 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
I never got involved in WoW in any hardcore manner, no. But you are the only person I've ever seen refer to WoW as "hard."


They're called hardmode instances for a reason. There are a few dozen guilds who pretty much do nothing but try for 'world first' achievements when these instances are unlocked. Think full-time job except instead of clocking in at work, you log into WoW. Hours a day for days a week, people who have done it for years(skilled veterans) bash their heads against difficult content for weeks and in some cases, months.

I recall a group who got one of the 'world first' titles for full clear of an instance stating in an interview that it took them well over 600 attempts on a single boss before they finally got it down. One boss out of half a dozen. In many cases these instances require perfect execution or it's a wipe. It's not like FFXI where if a key player died you could just toss an elemental seal and sleep on the boss while you raised them and then kite it around for 5 minutes while you waited for weakness to wear off. You only get a few raises to use in battle and after that you're screwed until combat ends.

I think the most overlooked element to why WoW was considered difficult is the amount of coordination between players that was required. Everyone needed to be aware of their proximity to the mob, their tanks, their healers and many times objects or areas of the environment that needed to be avoided, rushed to for cover or interacted with in some way. Not that they didn't exist, but there were rarely instances where you could pretty much guarantee a win solely based on the fact that 2 or 3 players paid attention to when they needed to interrupt the 1 thing that would wipe your group.



Thanks for this insight, Filth. And I'm not trying to talk any trash on WoW, I just obviously don't have the knowledge of it.

I also don't consider FFXI to be "hard" either. It's punishing, and I think that's a crucial difference.
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#64 Jun 30 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Seraphknight777 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.

I hate to go off topic here but it has to be said.

Ostia your comparison is far from fair. What you (and someone else after you) are referring to are RAIDS (10man+ content). How you can compare a 4man dungeon to a 10+ man raid is absolutely laughable. Yes the hardest of the hard RAIDS in WoW are pretty darn hard but we're not referring to end game raids we're referring to low level dungeons. Now if you compare the low level 4man dungeons in ARR we've seen so far in the beta to low level 5man dungeons in WoW then we can at least make a comparison. So far from tanking with my MRD I've noticed that there isn't much of a difficulty difference OVERALL between the lower level dungeons of the 2 games, but ARR does test you with MECHANICS much earlier than WoW. In WoW you can "faceroll" you're way through any lower level dungeon and come out on top. I've played WoW since the addition of Naxx to the game back in patch 1.11, and it's gotten incredibly easy in the low levels to the point that I dread making new characters because I know I'm in for pure boredom until level cap. In WoW you can ignore most of the mechanics until you get near level cap, from what I've experienced in ARR you get combat mechanic experience in the first what, 2 hours of the game? I've loved FFXI, WoW, and my time so far in ARR beta, but my time is definitely done with FFXI (played since NA release, enjoyed abyssea but I'm done with it) and WoW (played since 1.11, absolutely HATE the direction the game and Blizzard are both headed in general).

S/N: I forgot who it was but to whoever was talking about 600 attempts at a boss, I must must must must stress the fact that they are end-game RAID bosses that require 10/25 people to complete and are the Heroic/Hardmode versions of the encounters. I'll also share a secret that many people don't realize when they talk about attempts at a boss. Many of the top guilds will do LOTS of dry runs before they even waste consumables as otherwise they're just wasting time/currency. They call for a wipe if the mechanics arent done properly as its faster to wipe now rather than to wipe another 5 mins into the fight because you're down a dps, a healer, or tank because of failed mechanics and have to start all over. That way they can also practice the mechanics to get each part down 1 segment at a time. Once they feel they've gotten a mechanic down they progress to the next mechanic and so forth until they feel they can do the whole fight with as little error as possible and as quickly as possible. They also do this to make subsequent farm runs easier.

The amount of misinformation in some of the posts I've seen in this thread is staggering. I'm sure there's a lot more I missed but these just really stood out.

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 11:49am by Seraphknight777


In THE Ostia's (as he shall henceforth be referred to as Smiley: nod) defense, he was attacking the idea that level 60 WoW raids are comparable to level 20 XIV raids... It is not him who made that comparison.
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I probably understood about 1/10th of what was discussed in this thread and I'm sober as a rope. (I don't know if that's actually a saying or not). -Kierk
#65 Jun 30 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
I never got involved in WoW in any hardcore manner, no. But you are the only person I've ever seen refer to WoW as "hard."


They're called hardmode instances for a reason. There are a few dozen guilds who pretty much do nothing but try for 'world first' achievements when these instances are unlocked. Think full-time job except instead of clocking in at work, you log into WoW. Hours a day for days a week, people who have done it for years(skilled veterans) bash their heads against difficult content for weeks and in some cases, months.

I recall a group who got one of the 'world first' titles for full clear of an instance stating in an interview that it took them well over 600 attempts on a single boss before they finally got it down. One boss out of half a dozen. In many cases these instances require perfect execution or it's a wipe. It's not like FFXI where if a key player died you could just toss an elemental seal and sleep on the boss while you raised them and then kite it around for 5 minutes while you waited for weakness to wear off. You only get a few raises to use in battle and after that you're screwed until combat ends.

I think the most overlooked element to why WoW was considered difficult is the amount of coordination between players that was required. Everyone needed to be aware of their proximity to the mob, their tanks, their healers and many times objects or areas of the environment that needed to be avoided, rushed to for cover or interacted with in some way. Not that they didn't exist, but there were rarely instances where you could pretty much guarantee a win solely based on the fact that 2 or 3 players paid attention to when they needed to interrupt the 1 thing that would wipe your group.



Thanks for this insight, Filth. And I'm not trying to talk any trash on WoW, I just obviously don't have the knowledge of it.

I also don't consider FFXI to be "hard" either. It's punishing, and I think that's a crucial difference.


Unless you know exactly, and I mean exactly what you are doing... many of the XI bosses are hard. I don't think that's over the top to say.
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I probably understood about 1/10th of what was discussed in this thread and I'm sober as a rope. (I don't know if that's actually a saying or not). -Kierk
#66 Jun 30 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Seraphknight777 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.

I hate to go off topic here but it has to be said.

Ostia your comparison is far from fair. What you (and someone else after you) are referring to are RAIDS (10man+ content). How you can compare a 4man dungeon to a 10+ man raid is absolutely laughable. Yes the hardest of the hard RAIDS in WoW are pretty darn hard but we're not referring to end game raids we're referring to low level dungeons. Now if you compare the low level 4man dungeons in ARR we've seen so far in the beta to low level 5man dungeons in WoW then we can at least make a comparison. So far from tanking with my MRD I've noticed that there isn't much of a difficulty difference OVERALL between the lower level dungeons of the 2 games, but ARR does test you with MECHANICS much earlier than WoW. In WoW you can "faceroll" you're way through any lower level dungeon and come out on top. I've played WoW since the addition of Naxx to the game back in patch 1.11, and it's gotten incredibly easy in the low levels to the point that I dread making new characters because I know I'm in for pure boredom until level cap. In WoW you can ignore most of the mechanics until you get near level cap, from what I've experienced in ARR you get combat mechanic experience in the first what, 2 hours of the game? I've loved FFXI, WoW, and my time so far in ARR beta, but my time is definitely done with FFXI (played since NA release, enjoyed abyssea but I'm done with it) and WoW (played since 1.11, absolutely HATE the direction the game and Blizzard are both headed in general).

S/N: I forgot who it was but to whoever was talking about 600 attempts at a boss, I must must must must stress the fact that they are end-game RAID bosses that require 10/25 people to complete and are the Heroic/Hardmode versions of the encounters. I'll also share a secret that many people don't realize when they talk about attempts at a boss. Many of the top guilds will do LOTS of dry runs before they even waste consumables as otherwise they're just wasting time/currency. They call for a wipe if the mechanics arent done properly as its faster to wipe now rather than to wipe another 5 mins into the fight because you're down a dps, a healer, or tank because of failed mechanics and have to start all over. That way they can also practice the mechanics to get each part down 1 segment at a time. Once they feel they've gotten a mechanic down they progress to the next mechanic and so forth until they feel they can do the whole fight with as little error as possible and as quickly as possible. They also do this to make subsequent farm runs easier.

The amount of misinformation in some of the posts I've seen in this thread is staggering. I'm sure there's a lot more I missed but these just really stood out.

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 11:49am by Seraphknight777


I agree, Seraph. Thank you. I enjoy sound logic.
#67 Jun 30 2013 at 1:15 PM Rating: Default
***
2,202 posts
Seraphknight777 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.

I hate to go off topic here but it has to be said.

Ostia your comparison is far from fair. What you (and someone else after you) are referring to are RAIDS (10man+ content). How you can compare a 4man dungeon to a 10+ man raid is absolutely laughable. Yes the hardest of the hard RAIDS in WoW are pretty darn hard but we're not referring to end game raids we're referring to low level dungeons. Now if you compare the low level 4man dungeons in ARR we've seen so far in the beta to low level 5man dungeons in WoW then we can at least make a comparison. So far from tanking with my MRD I've noticed that there isn't much of a difficulty difference OVERALL between the lower level dungeons of the 2 games, but ARR does test you with MECHANICS much earlier than WoW. In WoW you can "faceroll" you're way through any lower level dungeon and come out on top. I've played WoW since the addition of Naxx to the game back in patch 1.11, and it's gotten incredibly easy in the low levels to the point that I dread making new characters because I know I'm in for pure boredom until level cap. In WoW you can ignore most of the mechanics until you get near level cap, from what I've experienced in ARR you get combat mechanic experience in the first what, 2 hours of the game? I've loved FFXI, WoW, and my time so far in ARR beta, but my time is definitely done with FFXI (played since NA release, enjoyed abyssea but I'm done with it) and WoW (played since 1.11, absolutely HATE the direction the game and Blizzard are both headed in general).

S/N: I forgot who it was but to whoever was talking about 600 attempts at a boss, I must must must must stress the fact that they are end-game RAID bosses that require 10/25 people to complete and are the Heroic/Hardmode versions of the encounters. I'll also share a secret that many people don't realize when they talk about attempts at a boss. Many of the top guilds will do LOTS of dry runs before they even waste consumables as otherwise they're just wasting time/currency. They call for a wipe if the mechanics arent done properly as its faster to wipe now rather than to wipe another 5 mins into the fight because you're down a dps, a healer, or tank because of failed mechanics and have to start all over. That way they can also practice the mechanics to get each part down 1 segment at a time. Once they feel they've gotten a mechanic down they progress to the next mechanic and so forth until they feel they can do the whole fight with as little error as possible and as quickly as possible. They also do this to make subsequent farm runs easier.

The amount of misinformation in some of the posts I've seen in this thread is staggering. I'm sure there's a lot more I missed but these just really stood out.

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 11:49am by Seraphknight777


I did not compare level 20 ARR content to WOW level 60 Raids... I never even used the word RAID :) Level 60 WOW istances A.K.A TBC, are one of the hardest istances sets released in WOW Smiley: smile Louis compared them, not me, i said it was BLASPHEMOUS to do such a comparison... since none of those instances can be done w/o a healer, unlike the ARR counterparts that he did compared them too.... Also what combat mechanics do you experience the first 2 hours of ARR please do tell us ? Because you claim the misinformation in this thread is staggering... yet you are adding to it Smiley: lol
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#68 Jun 30 2013 at 5:25 PM Rating: Default
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4,145 posts
Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
It should also be noted that hardmode dungeons were introduced after WotLK. In other words, when the game shipped, it didn't have Hard Mode. So while this level of co-ordination is required for a hard mode dungeon, the dungeon is specifically a raiding dungeon that exists outside the actual "storyline" (since WoW's storylining is not exactly made clear for people who play the game and can be missed entirely as no dungeon is required for progressing in the game), and is in fact something that was added YEARS after launch. Additionally it was content specifically modified to intentionally challenge players beyond even a standard dungeon.


I've got 2 words for you...

40-man raids.

I used hardmode instances because they are a recent example. That doesn't mean that there was never any challenge or high level of coordination in WoW prior to that point.

Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
Why is it that people are expecting FFXIV to have this level of complexity and difficulty at launch? This sort of dungeon takes time to build and properly balance so that, while hard, it is not impossible to complete. The core mechanics are all there and working. Polish them a bit more, work out some of the kinks, then we can start talking about end-game raids and then these comparisons to WoW start making some form of sense.

Right now, people are comparing WoW's raiding dungeons, a totally OPTIONAL section of gameplay, with the MANDATORY storylined dungeons of FFXIV. You really can't.


I don't think it's that people expect it but rather, they want that from their game and they will look elsewhere to find it. People tend to be more willing to sacrifice for the sake of convenience. Whether or not people wind up sticking with XIV will depend on how much they want to sacrifice for whatever XIV brings to the table that other games don't.

The comparison of optional or mandatory has no bearing. It was a response to WoW's content not being hard. It really didn't even have to be a comparison to be honest and where it was, it was compared to XI which is more established than WoW.

Parathyroid wrote:
Unless you know exactly, and I mean exactly what you are doing... many of the XI bosses are hard. I don't think that's over the top to say.


Thing is, unless your BLM don't know how to sleep something or your tanks and off-tanks don't know how to kite, it really isn't much of an issue. For the vast majority of FFXI HNM, you can give a detailed strategy for an entire alliance in just a single sentence. Any other knowledge needed was all gained from reading the chat log.
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#69 Jun 30 2013 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
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273 posts
PhrozenFFXI wrote:
Seraphknight777 wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.

I hate to go off topic here but it has to be said.

Ostia your comparison is far from fair. What you (and someone else after you) are referring to are RAIDS (10man+ content). How you can compare a 4man dungeon to a 10+ man raid is absolutely laughable. Yes the hardest of the hard RAIDS in WoW are pretty darn hard but we're not referring to end game raids we're referring to low level dungeons. Now if you compare the low level 4man dungeons in ARR we've seen so far in the beta to low level 5man dungeons in WoW then we can at least make a comparison. So far from tanking with my MRD I've noticed that there isn't much of a difficulty difference OVERALL between the lower level dungeons of the 2 games, but ARR does test you with MECHANICS much earlier than WoW. In WoW you can "faceroll" you're way through any lower level dungeon and come out on top. I've played WoW since the addition of Naxx to the game back in patch 1.11, and it's gotten incredibly easy in the low levels to the point that I dread making new characters because I know I'm in for pure boredom until level cap. In WoW you can ignore most of the mechanics until you get near level cap, from what I've experienced in ARR you get combat mechanic experience in the first what, 2 hours of the game? I've loved FFXI, WoW, and my time so far in ARR beta, but my time is definitely done with FFXI (played since NA release, enjoyed abyssea but I'm done with it) and WoW (played since 1.11, absolutely HATE the direction the game and Blizzard are both headed in general).

S/N: I forgot who it was but to whoever was talking about 600 attempts at a boss, I must must must must stress the fact that they are end-game RAID bosses that require 10/25 people to complete and are the Heroic/Hardmode versions of the encounters. I'll also share a secret that many people don't realize when they talk about attempts at a boss. Many of the top guilds will do LOTS of dry runs before they even waste consumables as otherwise they're just wasting time/currency. They call for a wipe if the mechanics arent done properly as its faster to wipe now rather than to wipe another 5 mins into the fight because you're down a dps, a healer, or tank because of failed mechanics and have to start all over. That way they can also practice the mechanics to get each part down 1 segment at a time. Once they feel they've gotten a mechanic down they progress to the next mechanic and so forth until they feel they can do the whole fight with as little error as possible and as quickly as possible. They also do this to make subsequent farm runs easier.

The amount of misinformation in some of the posts I've seen in this thread is staggering. I'm sure there's a lot more I missed but these just really stood out.

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 11:49am by Seraphknight777


I agree, Seraph. Thank you. I enjoy sound logic.


Maybe so, but you obviously didn't read the entire thread text... you agreed with a block of text accusing Ostia of something he didn't do.
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#70 Jun 30 2013 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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No, I read the thread. He may have accused Ostia of something he didn't do, but the point he was trying to make is very valid in terms of some of the complaints I've seen in these forums. It may not apply to Ostia, but it still applies.
#71 Jun 30 2013 at 6:15 PM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
So lying is cool as long as you make a point even if is based on a lie ? Smiley: lol

You people impress me sometimes
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#72 Jun 30 2013 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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62 posts
sixstroke wrote:
I regret to inform you all that I will not be joining you all.

I woke up a early this morning to continue some grinding on my THM/Conj(my favorite so far) and I realized I had very little good to say about the game. I found myself just wanting to get to the next zone to see the awesome landscapes(which they are) however, that just doesn't justify the monthly payment and time invested.

I wish you all well! I will be stopping in, here and there to see how the game is going because both FF and FF:online hold a dear place in my heart!

Good Luck Everyone!


seriously a classy post, and for its subject matter that is legendarily unique. and i understand how you feel, but let me just put these out there, receive it however:
have you been reading quests? good cohesive story. Its beta, not even final beta, therefore I'd suggest playing at least 1 month of live if money isn't the issue to see the final product and just be certain you have made the right choice. I've been playing mmorpgs too long and it has been a long time since i've been genuinly excited to start my next avatar if you will. Either way best of luck to you, class act.

Rinsui wrote:
Somebody bring me a bucket for all those tears.
Or better yet: a bathtub.


one thing i do enjoy about my beta experience so far is i realized there are some 'pros' and there are some people who are inexperienced with mmo's but came for dat fantasy. and typing this i realize wow has a large age difference in some of its players, but ffxiv the margin has the chance to be even wilder. no good or bad, just interesting.

as far as mr rinsui, i would not say the full t word for u. ur skills are weak, your bridge is neither long nor deep. i hope you name your character Fail Hater.

#73 Jun 30 2013 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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154 posts
Ostia wrote:
So lying is cool as long as you make a point even if is based on a lie ? Smiley: lol

You people impress me sometimes


No no no...the fact that some people are comparing the few levels of beta ARR to a complete game such as WoW or FFXI in terms of difficulty. That part applies. Does it not? I'm sure you've seen the complaints as well. Does that point not apply to those? Not trying to be argumentative...it seems a few people are ready for that today though...
#74 Jun 30 2013 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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elenex wrote:
[quote=sixstroke]I regret to inform you all that I will not be joining you all.

I woke up a early this morning to continue some grinding on my THM/Conj(my favorite so far) and I realized I had very little good to say about the game. I found myself just wanting to get to the next zone to see the awesome landscapes(which they are) however, that just doesn't justify the monthly payment and time invested.

I wish you all well! I will be stopping in, here and there to see how the game is going because both FF and FF:online hold a dear place in my heart!

Good Luck Everyone!




That's why I'm excited to come back to the FF community. I've played a lot of MMOs since I left FFXI, and I must say that this community is the most mature. Sure there are some exceptions, but overall much more class in this community.

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 8:34pm by PhrozenFFXI
#75 Jun 30 2013 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
elenex wrote:
seriously a classy post, and for its subject matter that is legendarily unique. and i understand how you feel, but let me just put these out there, receive it however:
have you been reading quests? good cohesive story. Its beta, not even final beta, therefore I'd suggest playing at least 1 month of live if money isn't the issue to see the final product and just be certain you have made the right choice. I've been playing mmorpgs too long and it has been a long time since i've been genuinly excited to start my next avatar if you will. Either way best of luck to you, class act.

Classy or not, it wasn't needed. This isn't his personal blog, and honestly no one cares if someone doesn't want to play the game. Just don't play it, hence the initial negative reply by Rinsui


elenex wrote:
as far as mr rinsui, i would not say the full t word for u. ur skills are weak, your bridge is neither long nor deep. i hope you name your character Fail Hater.

And you playing internet white knight and calling down someone for expressing irritation at someone literally creating a topic to express their own dissatisfaction with a product and magnanimously announce their departure as if it were some great event isn't any better. See, now you insulted him. And he might come here, insult you, and then we have yet another flame thread.

In fact, most of this thread is rather pointless. Can an admin just lock it up now? These devolving threads are starting to get unsightly all over the place.

There is a very dedicated set of people on the boards simply here to troll every post with their own special dislike for FFXIV, and if you aren't going to ban them, at least take away the threads they derail. It's just getting silly that they enjoy trolling about here.

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 8:51pm by Pawkeshup
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#76 Jun 30 2013 at 6:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:


I did not compare level 20 ARR content to WOW level 60 Raids... I never even used the word RAID :) Level 60 WOW istances A.K.A TBC, are one of the hardest istances sets released in WOW Smiley: smile Louis compared them, not me, i said it was BLASPHEMOUS to do such a comparison... since none of those instances can be done w/o a healer, unlike the ARR counterparts that he did compared them too.... Also what combat mechanics do you experience the first 2 hours of ARR please do tell us ? Because you claim the misinformation in this thread is staggering... yet you are adding to it Smiley: lol


WHOA WHOA WHOA!

Let's get it straight here. I said that I got to level 60 and didn't encounter anything even resembling a challenge. I never compared the instanced dungeons in WoW (which I did NONE of except maybe one cave in the Barrens..) to the level 20 dungeons, (of which I found relatively challenging but forgiving).

The first dungeons in beta are challenging for new players, but give PLENTY of time to die over and over and still get a win. They are EXACTLY what the game needs to attract new players. The agony of defeat and the thrill of overcoming it.

We, and that is my friend and 2 other legacy players, cleared all three. In the first dungeon we had 1 death. The second, 2. The third, the tank and the mrd died on the mini boss, while I cure bombed the archer who tanked 9 slimes. Then we wiped 2 times on the final boss.

Still, we ended the final dungeon with 40 minutes to spare.

Hard? Eh. More that I am a bad Whm. (was too busy taking screenshots :D)
Screenshot

Forgiving? Absolutely.
Fun? **** yes.
____________________________


#77 Jun 30 2013 at 7:07 PM Rating: Good
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i thought everyone would be loving this game and to me his post was a little constructive. and people are discussing pros and cons and likes and dislikes so
#78 Jun 30 2013 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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IDK, WoW was pretty easy for me. I had a max level rogue during Cataclysm, and I never once felt like it was ever the most challenging thing I had ever done in a Video game.

Obviously, if you play it on the hard modes, it's going to be hard. What video game in the history of video games doesn't add difficulty to the hard settings? But I don't believe you can judge a games difficulty on the hard mode, but instead base it on the normal setting, and WoW's normal mode content was never challenging enough to say it's far more difficult than ARR can be. At least not at this point in it's development. Keep in mind that they can always change anything about the game, and at some point raise the difficulty to meet the need of "hardcore" players. (I hate the term "hardcore" fyi Smiley: rolleyes)

I'll post this link to my WoW toon, just as proof that I played WoW. Smiley: grin
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormscale/Uogo/simple
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It has to be. Otherwise I can't go on.
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#79 Jun 30 2013 at 8:24 PM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:


I did not compare level 20 ARR content to WOW level 60 Raids... I never even used the word RAID :) Level 60 WOW istances A.K.A TBC, are one of the hardest istances sets released in WOW Smiley: smile Louis compared them, not me, i said it was BLASPHEMOUS to do such a comparison... since none of those instances can be done w/o a healer, unlike the ARR counterparts that he did compared them too.... Also what combat mechanics do you experience the first 2 hours of ARR please do tell us ? Because you claim the misinformation in this thread is staggering... yet you are adding to it Smiley: lol


WHOA WHOA WHOA!

Let's get it straight here. I said that I got to level 60 and didn't encounter anything even resembling a challenge. I never compared the instanced dungeons in WoW (which I did NONE of except maybe one cave in the Barrens..) to the level 20 dungeons, (of which I found relatively challenging but forgiving).

The first dungeons in beta are challenging for new players, but give PLENTY of time to die over and over and still get a win. They are EXACTLY what the game needs to attract new players. The agony of defeat and the thrill of overcoming it.

We, and that is my friend and 2 other legacy players, cleared all three. In the first dungeon we had 1 death. The second, 2. The third, the tank and the mrd died on the mini boss, while I cure bombed the archer who tanked 9 slimes. Then we wiped 2 times on the final boss.

Still, we ended the final dungeon with 40 minutes to spare.

Hard? Eh. More that I am a bad Whm. (was too busy taking screenshots :D)
Screenshot

Forgiving? Absolutely.
Fun? **** yes.


No they are not, if you died on any of the 3 starting dungeons, you are bad, no excuses, nothing in them is hard, at ALL! I did copper mine yesterday with a fresh new tank, that had not tanked since XI he died on the slime, then i died because the mage pulled the aggro of the slimes from me, but i had the aggro of the bomb, and as i tried to retake the aggro of the slimes to blow them up, the bomb went off.... The conjurer and the mage beat the boss with the tank and the dps dead... In wow, you cannot do that, you die, period.

Also is not that you are a bad WHM, your tank is way above the istance, look at his gear, that is level 23 gear..... On a lvl 17 dungeon.... Yeah! Bet it was hard Smiley: lol
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#80 Jun 30 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
supermegazeke wrote:
IDK, WoW was pretty easy for me. I had a max level rogue during Cataclysm, and I never once felt like it was ever the most challenging thing I had ever done in a Video game.

Obviously, if you play it on the hard modes, it's going to be hard. What video game in the history of video games doesn't add difficulty to the hard settings? But I don't believe you can judge a games difficulty on the hard mode, but instead base it on the normal setting, and WoW's normal mode content was never challenging enough to say it's far more difficult than ARR can be. At least not at this point in it's development. Keep in mind that they can always change anything about the game, and at some point raise the difficulty to meet the need of "hardcore" players. (I hate the term "hardcore" fyi Smiley: rolleyes)

I'll post this link to my WoW toon, just as proof that I played WoW. Smiley: grin
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormscale/Uogo/simple


Hahahaha!! Smiley: lol Never did any raids on Vanilla, only has cleared TBC Content in 2011, never did any heroics in WOTLK. Yup you can talk about hard content in wow... The ones you never did.
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#81 Jun 30 2013 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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6,898 posts
Ostia wrote:
[No they are not, if you died on any of the 3 starting dungeons, you are bad, no excuses, nothing in them is hard, at ALL! I did copper mine yesterday with a fresh new tank, that had not tanked since XI he died on the slime, then i died because the mage pulled the aggro of the slimes from me, but i had the aggro of the bomb, and as i tried to retake the aggro of the slimes to blow them up, the bomb went off.... The conjurer and the mage beat the boss with the tank and the dps dead... In wow, you cannot do that, you die, period.

Also is not that you are a bad WHM, your tank is way above the istance, look at his gear, that is level 23 gear..... On a lvl 17 dungeon.... Yeah! Bet it was hard Smiley: lol


Dying in the dungeons doesn't signify if you're a good or bad player at all. It just means you haven't figured out the mechanics yet, or that you have people who aren't meeting the DPS threshold of the encounters, or new players who don't fully understand how their jobs work. Saying it makes you a bad player is dumb as ****. For instance, the first time I had ever run Ifrit (with you) I died during the phase change to those explosions that went outside/inside/repeat. Does that make me a bad player? And before you respond with yes, keep in mind that I did it again and not only didn't die, but only the tank and I survived and beat the encounter the exact same way you did in my first run. Experience and understanding the mechanics are very important.

As for WoW... I was a pally tank and ran every single dungeon in the dungeon finder. SEVERAL times we had a healer leave and just said ***** it, and ended up beating the dungeon without one, so you're completely wrong there. MANY times we had a healer so bad that either they or the melee would die from being stupid (aggroing another group of mobs, running into the boss before me, etc) and I'd end up beating it anyways. The dungeons in WoW (you know, the almost exact equivalent to the ones in XIV) weren't any harder. In fact, 99% of them were simple tank and spank up until 60ish. At least there are actual interesting mechanics in XIV boss fights, and to me, that makes them more challenging. I could sleepwalk my way through half the dungeons in WoW, so you're wrong there. And no, I'm not talking raids, I'm not talking whatever hard content you want to counter with. I'm talking the simple dungeon finder the dungeons. They weren't hard. AT ALL.
#82 Jun 30 2013 at 8:39 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
supermegazeke wrote:
IDK, WoW was pretty easy for me. I had a max level rogue during Cataclysm, and I never once felt like it was ever the most challenging thing I had ever done in a Video game.

Obviously, if you play it on the hard modes, it's going to be hard. What video game in the history of video games doesn't add difficulty to the hard settings? But I don't believe you can judge a games difficulty on the hard mode, but instead base it on the normal setting, and WoW's normal mode content was never challenging enough to say it's far more difficult than ARR can be. At least not at this point in it's development. Keep in mind that they can always change anything about the game, and at some point raise the difficulty to meet the need of "hardcore" players. (I hate the term "hardcore" fyi Smiley: rolleyes)

I'll post this link to my WoW toon, just as proof that I played WoW. Smiley: grin
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormscale/Uogo/simple


Hahahaha!! Smiley: lol Never did any raids on Vanilla, only has cleared TBC Content in 2011, never did any heroics in WOTLK. Yup you can talk about hard content in wow... The ones you never did.


That's what I'm trying to get across though, is that I never played on hard modes, so it wasn't hard. I never claimed to do any of the stuff you just said I didn't do. I did play some vanilla wow as well, but I only got to like 55 or something. It was on a completely different account though, because when I re-uped later, I couldn't figure out how to get my old account active. Either way, I'm not saying that some parts of it weren't difficult, I'm just stating that what was in the normal difficulty was not difficult, as that is the only content I ever had any desire to play. I'm not a "hardcore" player, I play for enjoyment and experience, not bragging rights. I'm pretty confident at some point SE will implement some challenging content to appease those of you who are masochists. For me though, you probably won't ever catch me banging my head against the wall for that stuff.

Take it easy on me Ostia, I'm sensitive! Smiley: grin

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 10:42pm by supermegazeke
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#83 Jun 30 2013 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Raiding in WoW was kind of hard. And by hard I mean getting all 10 people in your group to move when they need to. The hardest bosses in that game were the players themselves. My Guild spent over a month on Sindragosa in WotLK because people could just not get the hang of moving out of AoEs and staying away from other people when they were about to get ice blocked. It got very frustrating after a while of always doing things correctly until you get so tired of it you mess up. I suppose that it didn't help that we were always bringing in new people each week either..

After Cata hit however, I was able to get the highest Gearscore on my server for Holy Paladin by doing everything solo... at least until Raids opened up that is.. After this I quickly lost interest again and haven't played since. They made the instances much harder, which in itself wasn't a bad thing, but other people had such a hard time with it. It became such a pain to even do Heroics there for a while... and then they nerfed everything to the ground again >.>.

Edited, Jun 30th 2013 10:55pm by DamienSScott
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#84 Jun 30 2013 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

this game wasnt made to cater to WoW players? Made for people who enjoyed FFXI? If this game doenst have what I want go play something that does?

ROFLMAO

PLEASE go back and read a LOT of teh threads on thsi forum (especially teh ones with me posting in em) and THEN come back here and post again.. youll see that you clearly have a lot of editing to do.


Well, I think you have been a bit mislead by the over-exaggerations of forum posts.

I would say it's more a the love-child of both games. It takes a lot of mechanics that make WoW welcoming to new players, but it definitely feels like the developers goals are to turn a WoW player into an FFXI player. I can't speak for the later gameplay elements, but the difficulty is definitely higher at 20 than it was for my level 60 WoW character (which is as high as I got.)



Ok is official, you did not play WOW, to compare ARR level 20 gameplay with WOW at level 60 is blasphemous, in wow you cannot do one istance w/o a healer at ALL, you cannot even get past the first trash wave, in ARR you can clear the first 5 dungeons with out a healer :) And the gameplay is stupid in ARR, the only gimmick that whoever developed the combat system seemed to pick from wow, is "Extra adds on a boss" that is all i have seen, every boss on every istance, "Adds" in WOW at 60, you have a hundred things to worry about besides adds.

come on man.




Hmm lets see here

WoW = Nov 2004
FFXIV = BETA = NOT EVEN RELEASE YET = OBVIOUSLY WoW is vastly different/superior at this point... heck even FFXI SUCKED when it first came out (in Japan) it took TWO YEAR to get good (which is when we FINALLY got it).. point being.. how about we compare WoW during BET to FFXIV BETA and THEN we can have a fair argument

Now you telling us WoW had all the stuff you just mentioned during its beta?


lol i defend the game and get subbed.. now Im 100% certain someones just going to ALL my posts not even reading them and just on a karma bomb spree



IMO, you get rated down because your tone is always condescending and you look like an ***.
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#85 Jun 30 2013 at 10:01 PM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
[No they are not, if you died on any of the 3 starting dungeons, you are bad, no excuses, nothing in them is hard, at ALL! I did copper mine yesterday with a fresh new tank, that had not tanked since XI he died on the slime, then i died because the mage pulled the aggro of the slimes from me, but i had the aggro of the bomb, and as i tried to retake the aggro of the slimes to blow them up, the bomb went off.... The conjurer and the mage beat the boss with the tank and the dps dead... In wow, you cannot do that, you die, period.

Also is not that you are a bad WHM, your tank is way above the istance, look at his gear, that is level 23 gear..... On a lvl 17 dungeon.... Yeah! Bet it was hard Smiley: lol


Dying in the dungeons doesn't signify if you're a good or bad player at all. It just means you haven't figured out the mechanics yet, or that you have people who aren't meeting the DPS threshold of the encounters, or new players who don't fully understand how their jobs work. Saying it makes you a bad player is dumb as ****. For instance, the first time I had ever run Ifrit (with you) I died during the phase change to those explosions that went outside/inside/repeat. Does that make me a bad player? And before you respond with yes, keep in mind that I did it again and not only didn't die, but only the tank and I survived and beat the encounter the exact same way you did in my first run. Experience and understanding the mechanics are very important.

As for WoW... I was a pally tank and ran every single dungeon in the dungeon finder. SEVERAL times we had a healer leave and just said ***** it, and ended up beating the dungeon without one, so you're completely wrong there. MANY times we had a healer so bad that either they or the melee would die from being stupid (aggroing another group of mobs, running into the boss before me, etc) and I'd end up beating it anyways. The dungeons in WoW (you know, the almost exact equivalent to the ones in XIV) weren't any harder. In fact, 99% of them were simple tank and spank up until 60ish. At least there are actual interesting mechanics in XIV boss fights, and to me, that makes them more challenging. I could sleepwalk my way through half the dungeons in WoW, so you're wrong there. And no, I'm not talking raids, I'm not talking whatever hard content you want to counter with. I'm talking the simple dungeon finder the dungeons. They weren't hard. AT ALL.


You died... So you where bad, then you learned... You where good, simple as That! Also you cannot do Willing Caverns w/o a healer, that is just the way it is, nor can you do that cave with the pirates in stormwind etc etc, here is the difference, early 1-25 dungeons in wow, are far harder than 1-25 dungeons in XIV, that is a fact, and when you encounter a boss that requires adds to be tanked and killed, if you do not, you DIE! In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol
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#86 Jun 30 2013 at 10:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
[...]In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol

That's really not very accurate.

Copperbell Mine:
If you ignore the adds in the first fight, it starts spawning a lot of bombs and you die from mass bombs spawning and exploding on you before the boss even shows up. When you kill the adds, at most maybe 1 or 2 bombs will show.

If you ignore the adds in the second fight, the spriggan add prevents your bomb from exploding.
If you ignore the adds in the last fight, the add breaks rocks very quickly to spawn more adds and then swarm you.

Tam-Tara:
If you ignore the adds on the last boss, you run into boss invulnerability and can't damage him anymore. You are REQUIRED to kill adds for him to die.

Edit: Oops, missed an s.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:24am by Ravashack
#87 Jun 30 2013 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:



Hmm lets see here

WoW = Nov 2004
FFXIV = BETA = NOT EVEN RELEASE YET = OBVIOUSLY WoW is vastly different/superior at this point... heck even FFXI SUCKED when it first came out (in Japan) it took TWO YEAR to get good (which is when we FINALLY got it).. point being.. how about we compare WoW during BET to FFXIV BETA and THEN we can have a fair argument

Now you telling us WoW had all the stuff you just mentioned during its beta?


Yes it did actually. People just need to stop comparing these two games. Content, combat, and size wise, WoW has always been more complete; yes even in beta. I've accepted that ARR will never be as big or complex as World of Warcraft. WoW got better and better each year until Cataclysm, where it sort of leveled out in my opinion (no better or worse), it is a huge game with myriads of things to do in it. No other MMO world has come close to the vastness of Azeroth and it's surrounding areas. If I could compare it to another game on the market, it would be Rift. In it's beta stages it was much closer to ARR in size and the amount of content available, although ARR is still a bit smaller and less complete than Rift was at release since Rift already had a complete PvP and endgame system. It was ready to go. We don't know exactly what we'll be getting when ARR releases.

That being said, ARR is it's own game and has a lot of potential. By the first expansion, it should be a very enjoyable game with hopefully as much additions as we received in Rise of the Zilart for FFXI.

*I should note that I played Rift for about 2 months before going back to WoW because, for me, it didn't quite do it. The world and lore didn't interest me enough to validate putting anymore time in to it, when I could simply play WoW. The fact that ARR is a Final Fantasy and has a lot of things that tug on my heart strings may be what holds me over until the game expands a bit and keeps me away from Warcraft. I think this is what most players are looking for, not FFXI-2.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 1:07am by Transmigration
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#88 Jul 01 2013 at 2:55 AM Rating: Default
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Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
[...]In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol

That's really not very accurate.

Copperbell Mine:
If you ignore the adds in the first fight, it starts spawning a lot of bombs and you die from mass bombs spawning and exploding on you before the boss even shows up. When you kill the adds, at most maybe 1 or 2 bombs will show.

If you ignore the adds in the second fight, the spriggan add prevents your bomb from exploding.
If you ignore the adds in the last fight, the add breaks rocks very quickly to spawn more adds and then swarm you.

Tam-Tara:
If you ignore the adds on the last boss, you run into boss invulnerability and can't damage him anymore. You are REQUIRED to kill adds for him to die.

Edit: Oops, missed an s.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:24am by Ravashack


You are trying to hard brah... The first fight of copper mine does not start until you kill all the adds, you fight the boss only after killing the adds So!, Second fight you can ignore the spriggans, sure they will kill one or two bombs but some will blow up anyways... Soooo!!! You can ignore the adds in the last fight also, and just burn the boss down Smiley: lol

Yes the last boss of TTD is the only one where you are technically required to kill adds... You can ignore the rest and just burn the boss down.
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#89 Jul 01 2013 at 3:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
[...]In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol

That's really not very accurate.

Copperbell Mine:
If you ignore the adds in the first fight, it starts spawning a lot of bombs and you die from mass bombs spawning and exploding on you before the boss even shows up. When you kill the adds, at most maybe 1 or 2 bombs will show.

If you ignore the adds in the second fight, the spriggan add prevents your bomb from exploding.
If you ignore the adds in the last fight, the add breaks rocks very quickly to spawn more adds and then swarm you.

Tam-Tara:
If you ignore the adds on the last boss, you run into boss invulnerability and can't damage him anymore. You are REQUIRED to kill adds for him to die.

Edit: Oops, missed an s.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:24am by Ravashack


You are trying to hard brah... The first fight of copper mine does not start until you kill all the adds, you fight the boss only after killing the adds So!, Second fight you can ignore the spriggans, sure they will kill one or two bombs but some will blow up anyways... Soooo!!! You can ignore the adds in the last fight also, and just burn the boss down Smiley: lol

Yes the last boss of TTD is the only one where you are technically required to kill adds... You can ignore the rest and just burn the boss down.


The room seals when you start attacking the adds, so sorry "brah," fight clearly starts with the adds, and not because Ostia says the boss hasn't popped yet.

Having one bad group where I was stuck healing and 8 Spriggans pop and snuffed 8 bombs in a row before the DPS finally reacted fast enough, sorry, that's not one or two.

Sooooo!!!

The ones that I mentioned that weren't accurate?

Weren't. Smiley: lol

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 5:05am by Ravashack
#90 Jul 01 2013 at 3:17 AM Rating: Default
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Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
[...]In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol

That's really not very accurate.

Copperbell Mine:
If you ignore the adds in the first fight, it starts spawning a lot of bombs and you die from mass bombs spawning and exploding on you before the boss even shows up. When you kill the adds, at most maybe 1 or 2 bombs will show.

If you ignore the adds in the second fight, the spriggan add prevents your bomb from exploding.
If you ignore the adds in the last fight, the add breaks rocks very quickly to spawn more adds and then swarm you.

Tam-Tara:
If you ignore the adds on the last boss, you run into boss invulnerability and can't damage him anymore. You are REQUIRED to kill adds for him to die.

Edit: Oops, missed an s.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:24am by Ravashack


You are trying to hard brah... The first fight of copper mine does not start until you kill all the adds, you fight the boss only after killing the adds So!, Second fight you can ignore the spriggans, sure they will kill one or two bombs but some will blow up anyways... Soooo!!! You can ignore the adds in the last fight also, and just burn the boss down Smiley: lol

Yes the last boss of TTD is the only one where you are technically required to kill adds... You can ignore the rest and just burn the boss down.


The room seals when you start attacking the adds, so sorry "brah," fight clearly starts with the adds, and not because Ostia says the boss hasn't popped yet.

Having one bad group where I was stuck healing and 8 Spriggans pop and snuffed 8 bombs in a row before the DPS finally reacted fast enough, sorry, that's not one or two.

Sooooo!!!

The ones that I mentioned that weren't accurate?

Weren't. Smiley: lol

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 5:05am by Ravashack



Actually if you want to be really really accurate, the room seals and THEN adds show up, they are not tied to the BOSS Fight in any shape or form Smiley: lol

You had a bad group.... I had one where the tank died and one dps died and it was a mage and a CNJ versus the blob... Still beat it... And trust me the mage was way to busy to kill sprigans..

SOOOO!!! Bad group is bad ?
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#91 Jul 01 2013 at 3:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Ravashack wrote:
Having one bad group where I was stuck healing and 8 Spriggans pop and snuffed 8 bombs in a row before the DPS finally reacted fast enough, sorry, that's not one or two.


Had that happen as well. It had always gone so smoothly, to the point where I didn't even know what was happening, and why the bombs kept dieing. Had to try and kill them myself because the DPS were standing in the corner scared to get near anything blob related. /sigh

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 5:19am by supermegazeke
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#92 Jul 01 2013 at 3:38 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Ostia wrote:
[...]In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol

That's really not very accurate.

Copperbell Mine:
If you ignore the adds in the first fight, it starts spawning a lot of bombs and you die from mass bombs spawning and exploding on you before the boss even shows up. When you kill the adds, at most maybe 1 or 2 bombs will show.

If you ignore the adds in the second fight, the spriggan add prevents your bomb from exploding.
If you ignore the adds in the last fight, the add breaks rocks very quickly to spawn more adds and then swarm you.

Tam-Tara:
If you ignore the adds on the last boss, you run into boss invulnerability and can't damage him anymore. You are REQUIRED to kill adds for him to die.

Edit: Oops, missed an s.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:24am by Ravashack


You are trying to hard brah... The first fight of copper mine does not start until you kill all the adds, you fight the boss only after killing the adds So!, Second fight you can ignore the spriggans, sure they will kill one or two bombs but some will blow up anyways... Soooo!!! You can ignore the adds in the last fight also, and just burn the boss down Smiley: lol

Yes the last boss of TTD is the only one where you are technically required to kill adds... You can ignore the rest and just burn the boss down.


The room seals when you start attacking the adds, so sorry "brah," fight clearly starts with the adds, and not because Ostia says the boss hasn't popped yet.

Having one bad group where I was stuck healing and 8 Spriggans pop and snuffed 8 bombs in a row before the DPS finally reacted fast enough, sorry, that's not one or two.

Sooooo!!!

The ones that I mentioned that weren't accurate?

Weren't. Smiley: lol

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 5:05am by Ravashack



Actually if you want to be really really accurate, the room seals and THEN adds show up, they are not tied to the BOSS Fight in any shape or form Smiley: lol

You had a bad group.... I had one where the tank died and one dps died and it was a mage and a CNJ versus the blob... Still beat it... And trust me the mage was way to busy to kill sprigans..

SOOOO!!! Bad group is bad ?


That's very true about the sealing going first! But...room sealing up STILL signifies boss fight. Otherwise you could zerg the adds, just like the rest of the dungeon.

And the bad group isn't the point. The bad group is the vehicle for the point. The point is that the Spriggans had no problems dousing the bombs. So 1 or 2 still blow up if you ignore adds? Nope, go bug report it if it did.

SOOOO!!! Can't always ignore adds.
#93 Jul 01 2013 at 4:04 AM Rating: Default
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You can, the first bomb that shows up in that fight, has no sparigan showing up... only from the second foward, you have sparigans showing up, and they do not always kill the bomb before the bomb explodes Smiley: lol Is not a bug, is working as intended.
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#94 Jul 01 2013 at 4:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
You can, the first bomb that shows up in that fight, has no sparigan showing up... only from the second foward, you have sparigans showing up, and they do not always kill the bomb before the bomb explodes Smiley: lol Is not a bug, is working as intended.


They might not have always killed the bomb for you, but they definitely did not have problems killing the bomb off for me. The fact that they don't pop on the first bomb doesn't even have any relevance -- the fact that the spriggans shut down the bomb mechanic consistently for at least some people (since, obviously, all groups you've been in for it never had that working correctly) is. And that's not a tongue-in-cheek comment either -- I know some mechanics aren't working consistently, like the flame circle that the last boss of Halatali is supposed to do but doesn't always do.
#95 Jul 01 2013 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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6,898 posts
Ostia wrote:
You died... So you where bad, then you learned... You where good, simple as That! Also you cannot do Willing Caverns w/o a healer, that is just the way it is, nor can you do that cave with the pirates in stormwind etc etc, here is the difference, early 1-25 dungeons in wow, are far harder than 1-25 dungeons in XIV, that is a fact, and when you encounter a boss that requires adds to be tanked and killed, if you do not, you DIE! In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol


Lmao, so by your logic, I magically "became good" after watching the fight once? Apparently, because I had never seen the mechanics before, that means I'm a bad player. Yep, that's foolproof logic if you ask me. Smiley: rolleyes

And also, I did EVERY WoW dungeon 10-25, and maybe died once or twice because of bad players or someone DCing. They aren't hard. Are the early dungeons in XIV hard? Not exactly, but they still require you to know the mechanics. For instance, last boss of Sarastasha, if you don't understand you have to close the traps, you get swarmed by adds and die before you can zerg the boss down. Last boss in Tam Tara, you have to kill the adds for the boss to even become vulnerable. First boss in Copperbell, you DO have to kill the adds (at least some of them) or you will get owned by the boss and adds. If you don't kill any adds, you're group will wipe. If you're claiming you won't, you are flat out lying.

And I had the exact same experience as Rava for the second boss. You get one free bomb, after that you have to kill the Spriggan or it will kill the bomb before detonation. Either you got really lucky, or you're not being honest to try and prove your point.

Honestly, I think you're just trying to prove how "leet" you are by saying you've never died. Maybe you haven't, maybe you've had ideal groups that knew what they were doing and everyone worked fluidly. Not every group is like that. Most people WILL die at some point in those 3 dungeons, especially Copperbell, and especially if they haven't done the fights before. That doesn't make them bad, it makes them inexperienced, and there is a huge difference. Stop being such an elitist... wait, I can't even really say that since you apparently thought low level dungeons in WoW were more difficult. Not in my experience.
#96 Jul 01 2013 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:

Also you cannot do Willing Caverns w/o a healer,


You keep saying this and I keep calling you on bullsh*t, and you keep ignoring it.

This is more Ostia napkin math. Making sh*t up doesn't make it a fact. You cannot do the dungeons without a healer. That's a fact. What party makeup could you possibly conceive that would eliminate a healer? Is this some all tank party where they all set cure and cure themselves?

And if you ignore the adds you die. It's that simple. Wailing Caverns was the first and only dungeon I did in WoW and it was simple. It actually convinced me that WoW was an easy game for solo players, coming from FFXI.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 8:29am by Louiscool
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#97 Jul 01 2013 at 7:01 AM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
You died... So you where bad, then you learned... You where good, simple as That! Also you cannot do Willing Caverns w/o a healer, that is just the way it is, nor can you do that cave with the pirates in stormwind etc etc, here is the difference, early 1-25 dungeons in wow, are far harder than 1-25 dungeons in XIV, that is a fact, and when you encounter a boss that requires adds to be tanked and killed, if you do not, you DIE! In XIV you can ignore them, you can ignore the adds in copper mine, in sastasha, in TTD and still beat the boss w/o anybody dying, i have wiped in the dungeon finder, i have yet to have a wipe even yet, unable to kill a boss the first try in XIV.

And lets not even get on to class unbalance Smiley: lol


Lmao, so by your logic, I magically "became good" after watching the fight once? Apparently, because I had never seen the mechanics before, that means I'm a bad player. Yep, that's foolproof logic if you ask me. Smiley: rolleyes

And also, I did EVERY WoW dungeon 10-25, and maybe died once or twice because of bad players or someone DCing. They aren't hard. Are the early dungeons in XIV hard? Not exactly, but they still require you to know the mechanics. For instance, last boss of Sarastasha, if you don't understand you have to close the traps, you get swarmed by adds and die before you can zerg the boss down. Last boss in Tam Tara, you have to kill the adds for the boss to even become vulnerable. First boss in Copperbell, you DO have to kill the adds (at least some of them) or you will get owned by the boss and adds. If you don't kill any adds, you're group will wipe. If you're claiming you won't, you are flat out lying.

And I had the exact same experience as Rava for the second boss. You get one free bomb, after that you have to kill the Spriggan or it will kill the bomb before detonation. Either you got really lucky, or you're not being honest to try and prove your point.

Honestly, I think you're just trying to prove how "leet" you are by saying you've never died. Maybe you haven't, maybe you've had ideal groups that knew what they were doing and everyone worked fluidly. Not every group is like that. Most people WILL die at some point in those 3 dungeons, especially Copperbell, and especially if they haven't done the fights before. That doesn't make them bad, it makes them inexperienced, and there is a huge difference. Stop being such an elitist... wait, I can't even really say that since you apparently thought low level dungeons in WoW were more difficult. Not in my experience.


If you did not know that in 2013 if you see something shinning with fire under you, that you need to move.. Then yes you are bad... This is not 1998 when EQ came out, this is 2013 when is common to "MOVE OUT OF THE FIRE!" and we did TOLD YOU before the fight, move away from the fire when you see it on the floor, hit the add when he spawns and GG. Obviously you where not able to do a simple task... That's Ok! You learned as you said and you then did it and did not Die ? Great! See you learned, you became Good.

I actually died once but not of my own doing... Which was kind of funny.. yet sad, because they should have known better... But! Such is the price of pugging dungeons at Times.

Either way Louis! Bartel! We can end this argument next week, let's form a party, and do all those 3 basic dungeons w/o a healer :) Then we can get a healer and a tank and ignore the adds (Except in TTD last boss for obvious reasons) and then we can all laugh at how silly it all was.... Come on guys put your money where that mouth is Smiley: laugh So next week ? We prove who's right ok ?
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#98 Jul 01 2013 at 7:03 AM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:

Also you cannot do Willing Caverns w/o a healer,


You keep saying this and I keep calling you on bullsh*t, and you keep ignoring it.

This is more Ostia napkin math. Making sh*t up doesn't make it a fact. You cannot do the dungeons without a healer. That's a fact. What party makeup could you possibly conceive that would eliminate a healer? Is this some all tank party where they all set cure and cure themselves?

And if you ignore the adds you die. It's that simple. Wailing Caverns was the first and only dungeon I did in WoW and it was simple. It actually convinced me that WoW was an easy game for solo players, coming from FFXI.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 8:29am by Louiscool


If you actually read the official forums, many people have stated that they have cleared those dungeons and even higher ones WITH NO HEALER :) So this is not just me saying it, also you almost had me until you said coming from XI the easiest game evah!
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#99 Jul 01 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol
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#100 Jul 01 2013 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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6,898 posts
Ostia wrote:
If you did not know that in 2013 if you see something shinning with fire under you, that you need to move.. Then yes you are bad... This is not 1998 when EQ came out, this is 2013 when is common to "MOVE OUT OF THE FIRE!" and we did TOLD YOU before the fight, move away from the fire when you see it on the floor, hit the add when he spawns and GG. Obviously you where not able to do a simple task... That's Ok! You learned as you said and you then did it and did not Die ? Great! See you learned, you became Good.


Again, I had never seen the fight. I had no idea WHEN the phase would shift, and I happened to be caught in a bad spot when the eruptions started. That has absolutely nothing to do with being a bad player, it has to do with not having seen the mechanic in the fight and knowing when/where I was supposed to be. I was about a half step from being outside the flame that attempt. I didn't magically become good because I figured out the mechanic. Your logic is just plain wrong and incredibly elitist.

Ostia wrote:
Either way Louis! Bartel! We can end this argument next week, let's form a party, and do all those 3 basic dungeons w/o a healer :) Then we can get a healer and a tank and ignore the adds (Except in TTD last boss for obvious reasons) and then we can all laugh at how silly it all was.... Come on guys put your money where that mouth is Smiley: laugh So next week ? We prove who's right ok ?


Why? Why would I want to waste hours of my time doing this to try and prove a point? Do you want to go back to WoW so I can show you the dungeons I ran without a healer, or how easy they ALL are? Well guess what, I don't. I already ran Sarastasha without a healer. It was a massive pain in the ****. It took us almost the full hour and a half, a bunch of wipes, kiting, etc just to beat it. That was the FIRST dungeon. Why would I want to spend hours trying to prove your point when I already know it's not something that is easy or very enjoyable?

You make it sound like running these without a healer is so easy. It's not. It's a massive pain, and we WOULD wipe many times (especially in Copperbell). Maybe we could do it... but I doubt it. I think we'd get aggravated way before we finished them all and just say f*ck it. So no, I won't be doing that. It doesn't mean you're right, it means that the idea is a waste of time and pointless.


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#101 Jul 01 2013 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
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4,145 posts
Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


In other words, you can clear content because everyone has the ability to heal themselves?

Great. I was so sick of people saying 'moar liek WoW'. Now at least they'll say 'moar leik GW2' for a while Smiley: sly
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