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#102 Jul 01 2013 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


They had a THM, which isn't technically a healer, but is close enough with cure. Nice try though.
#103 Jul 01 2013 at 7:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


Yet weirdly they all have protect on. So the Thm is healing, big deal. They have a healer. I'll be damned if he ain't main healing with some spells inbetween, which is exactly how Con does it.

Show me an all-melee picture and I'll be impressed.
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#104 Jul 01 2013 at 8:38 AM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


They had a THM, which isn't technically a healer, but is close enough with cure. Nice try though.


Have yo useen how nerfed the heals are outside of THM ? This is the Extra super duper BUFFED!!! Dungeon X100!!!

Also for all we know, they could have just used protect and no heals, for giggles....
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#105 Jul 01 2013 at 8:40 AM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
If you did not know that in 2013 if you see something shinning with fire under you, that you need to move.. Then yes you are bad... This is not 1998 when EQ came out, this is 2013 when is common to "MOVE OUT OF THE FIRE!" and we did TOLD YOU before the fight, move away from the fire when you see it on the floor, hit the add when he spawns and GG. Obviously you where not able to do a simple task... That's Ok! You learned as you said and you then did it and did not Die ? Great! See you learned, you became Good.


Again, I had never seen the fight. I had no idea WHEN the phase would shift, and I happened to be caught in a bad spot when the eruptions started. That has absolutely nothing to do with being a bad player, it has to do with not having seen the mechanic in the fight and knowing when/where I was supposed to be. I was about a half step from being outside the flame that attempt. I didn't magically become good because I figured out the mechanic. Your logic is just plain wrong and incredibly elitist.

Ostia wrote:
Either way Louis! Bartel! We can end this argument next week, let's form a party, and do all those 3 basic dungeons w/o a healer :) Then we can get a healer and a tank and ignore the adds (Except in TTD last boss for obvious reasons) and then we can all laugh at how silly it all was.... Come on guys put your money where that mouth is Smiley: laugh So next week ? We prove who's right ok ?


Why? Why would I want to waste hours of my time doing this to try and prove a point? Do you want to go back to WoW so I can show you the dungeons I ran without a healer, or how easy they ALL are? Well guess what, I don't. I already ran Sarastasha without a healer. It was a massive pain in the ****. It took us almost the full hour and a half, a bunch of wipes, kiting, etc just to beat it. That was the FIRST dungeon. Why would I want to spend hours trying to prove your point when I already know it's not something that is easy or very enjoyable?

You make it sound like running these without a healer is so easy. It's not. It's a massive pain, and we WOULD wipe many times (especially in Copperbell). Maybe we could do it... but I doubt it. I think we'd get aggravated way before we finished them all and just say f*ck it. So no, I won't be doing that. It doesn't mean you're right, it means that the idea is a waste of time and pointless.




I bet you it would be easy Smiley: sly Also you would not be wasting your time, you would be beta testing the game, you know we would be testing weather or not the game was actually working as intended.... But i know i know, deep down you know i am right, so why actually go and see for yourself Smiley: sly
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#106 Jul 01 2013 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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The first 3 dungeons are not mind blowingly hard. They are the FIRST 3 dungeons though. I wouldn't expect to be fighting Absolute Virtue in there.
#107 Jul 01 2013 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:


Have yo useen how nerfed the heals are outside of THM ?


That has more to do with lack of proper MND stacking than anything else. You want to make your heals effective, stack MND.

Some reference for you:


Quote:
Cleric Stance:
Conjurer Lv.6
Swaps current INT and MND attribute ratings, while increasing potency of attack spells by 10% and reducing potency of healing spells by 20%. Effect ends upon reuse.


The 20% Penalty on Curing while active is overwpowered by the MND differential, making THM a possible healer candidate for early game.

Additionally, it's also QUITE possible for THM metagame the system by stacking the sh*t out of MND and abusing this skill, being able to swap between a powerful healer and a powerful damage dealer at will. This is why cure spell availability is limited.

Death in the early dungeons? It's possible, especially if you're inexperienced at MMOs or are inexperienced at the dungeons themselves. You flatly insulting players who are learning the ropes or are suffering difficulties is once again showing your antagonistic side, Ostia.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 10:57am by Hyrist
#108 Jul 01 2013 at 8:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


They had a THM, which isn't technically a healer, but is close enough with cure. Nice try though.


Have yo useen how nerfed the heals are outside of THM ? This is the Extra super duper BUFFED!!! Dungeon X100!!!

Also for all we know, they could have just used protect and no heals, for giggles....


Ostia, I would actually do these dungeons with you, with no healer. I'm telling you, I did this as the healer and I barely had time to throw out an Aero for the DOT between heals. On the bosses I was cure-bombing. I cannot imagine a situation where the THM wasn't doing the same.

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#109 Jul 01 2013 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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But Lou, why would Lord Ostia ever grace you with his presence in game for a dungeon run? After all, he's perfect and why would he ever want to play with a 'bad' player?

Speaking seriously, these fights have scaling difficulty depending on your setup. You can mock-up roles if you've got the appropriate classes. I did Copperbell without a healer or a tank - though we wiped twice and we won only because I was able to pull off a last-second limit break.

I wouldn't call these beginner dungeons too easy as they've got more objective sense in them than most other dungeons I've seen this low level on any other MMO.
#110 Jul 01 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
I bet you it would be easy Smiley: sly Also you would not be wasting your time, you would be beta testing the game, you know we would be testing weather or not the game was actually working as intended.... But i know i know, deep down you know i am right, so why actually go and see for yourself Smiley: sly


Well let's see, I've actually done a dungeon without a healer so I know how challenging it can be. Have you?

I don't plan on wasting half a day of my limited beta testing time to try and prove a point to you, because quite honestly I couldn't care. Heck, the only reason I'm even arguing with you about it is because I'm bored and the servers are down, so I have nothing better to do (methinks your in a similar situation).

As far as cure goes... it's crazy nerfed on a job like gla, but is much more potent on thm simply because of class stats (gla focuses on VIT, STR, DEX, thm focuses on INT, MND). It's not as strong as on conjurer, but it's not the gimp 1/4 heal it is on gld. So it's almost the same as having a healer, just without the AoE cure... but with the addition of the ability to sleep and have an extra DPS AoE nuking adds.
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#111 Jul 01 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
I bet you it would be easy Smiley: sly Also you would not be wasting your time, you would be beta testing the game, you know we would be testing weather or not the game was actually working as intended.... But i know i know, deep down you know i am right, so why actually go and see for yourself Smiley: sly


Well let's see, I've actually done a dungeon without a healer so I know how challenging it can be. Have you?

I don't plan on wasting half a day of my limited beta testing time to try and prove a point to you, because quite honestly I couldn't care. Heck, the only reason I'm even arguing with you about it is because I'm bored and the servers are down, so I have nothing better to do (methinks your in a similar situation).

As far as cure goes... it's crazy nerfed on a job like gla, but is much more potent on thm simply because of class stats (gla focuses on VIT, STR, DEX, thm focuses on INT, MND). It's not as strong as on conjurer, but it's not the gimp 1/4 heal it is on gld. So it's almost the same as having a healer, just without the AoE cure... but with the addition of the ability to sleep and have an extra DPS AoE nuking adds.


Were you in that group with me where I was main healing the first dungeon as a GLA with cure and protect, Bartel? I dont remember lol, but yeah I can assure you.... it wasn't easy at all. We actually had to take a run at the last boss like 3 or 4 times before we finally brought him down xD

As far as Cure being nerfed on GLA, this is perhaps true at the early levels (same for any other class I'd imagine), but at lvl 30+ which is where my GLA currently is, those cures become alot more potent and definetely life saving, especially for those 30+ FATEs I find myself doing all the time. It might be due to my gear, or natural MND increase... the latter kinda makes sense, since GLA turns into PLD, but as of now, a single cure of mine heals for about 95-100ish (More if I have the Convalesence skill active). Not as Potent as CNJ or perhaps even THM to be sure, but at that level, my natural defense stat, along with abilties like Rampart and Foresight, cause normal dungeon mobs to hit me for around 60-80ish. Only problem I have sometimes is my MP draining too fast (Riot Blade helps I suppose, just wish it wasn't on GCD xD).

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 11:45am by Swiftskye
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#112 Jul 01 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


They had a THM, which isn't technically a healer, but is close enough with cure. Nice try though.


Have yo useen how nerfed the heals are outside of THM ? This is the Extra super duper BUFFED!!! Dungeon X100!!!

Also for all we know, they could have just used protect and no heals, for giggles....


Ostia, I would actually do these dungeons with you, with no healer. I'm telling you, I did this as the healer and I barely had time to throw out an Aero for the DOT between heals. On the bosses I was cure-bombing. I cannot imagine a situation where the THM wasn't doing the same.



Then we got a date for next weekend, now i just gotta get bartel to agree and we can press 1-2-3 till our fingers bleed all while not Dying!
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#113 Jul 01 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


They had a THM, which isn't technically a healer, but is close enough with cure. Nice try though.


Have yo useen how nerfed the heals are outside of THM ? This is the Extra super duper BUFFED!!! Dungeon X100!!!

Also for all we know, they could have just used protect and no heals, for giggles....


Ostia, I would actually do these dungeons with you, with no healer. I'm telling you, I did this as the healer and I barely had time to throw out an Aero for the DOT between heals. On the bosses I was cure-bombing. I cannot imagine a situation where the THM wasn't doing the same.



Then we got a date for next weekend, now i just gotta get bartel to agree and we can press 1-2-3 till our fingers bleed all while not Dying!


And if you get slaughtered?
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#114 Jul 01 2013 at 9:58 AM Rating: Default
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LebargeX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


They had a THM, which isn't technically a healer, but is close enough with cure. Nice try though.


Have yo useen how nerfed the heals are outside of THM ? This is the Extra super duper BUFFED!!! Dungeon X100!!!

Also for all we know, they could have just used protect and no heals, for giggles....


Ostia, I would actually do these dungeons with you, with no healer. I'm telling you, I did this as the healer and I barely had time to throw out an Aero for the DOT between heals. On the bosses I was cure-bombing. I cannot imagine a situation where the THM wasn't doing the same.



Then we got a date for next weekend, now i just gotta get bartel to agree and we can press 1-2-3 till our fingers bleed all while not Dying!


And if you get slaughtered?


Jajaja!! Great Joke! What are you gonna say next ? Class are balanced ? Jajajaja Good One!
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#115 Jul 01 2013 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


They had a THM, which isn't technically a healer, but is close enough with cure. Nice try though.


Have yo useen how nerfed the heals are outside of THM ? This is the Extra super duper BUFFED!!! Dungeon X100!!!

Also for all we know, they could have just used protect and no heals, for giggles....


Ostia, I would actually do these dungeons with you, with no healer. I'm telling you, I did this as the healer and I barely had time to throw out an Aero for the DOT between heals. On the bosses I was cure-bombing. I cannot imagine a situation where the THM wasn't doing the same.



Then we got a date for next weekend, now i just gotta get bartel to agree and we can press 1-2-3 till our fingers bleed all while not Dying!


And if you get slaughtered?


It's because the rest of the group are bad players... not Ostia though, just everyone else. Smiley: tongue

And no, you aren't convincing me to run those dungeons without a healer. I'd rather be productive and focus my efforts on testing out crafting, gathering, higher-level FATEs, checking out other job mechanics, etc etc.

Swiftskye wrote:
Were you in that group with me where I was main healing the first dungeon as a GLA with cure and protect, Bartel? I dont remember lol, but yeah I can assure you.... it wasn't easy at all. We actually had to take a run at the last boss like 3 or 4 times before we finally brought him down xD

As far as Cure being nerfed on GLA, this is perhaps true at the early levels (same for any other class I'd imagine), but at lvl 30+ which is where my GLA currently is, those cures become alot more potent and definetely life saving, especially for those 30+ FATEs I find myself doing all the time. It might be due to my gear, or natural MND increase... the latter kinda makes sense, since GLA turns into PLD, but as of now, a single cure of mine heals for about 95-100ish (More if I have the Convalesence skill active). Not as Potent as CNJ or perhaps even THM to be sure, but at that level, my natural defense stat, along with abilties like Rampart and Foresight, cause normal dungeon mobs to hit me for around 60-80ish. Only problem I have sometimes is my MP draining too fast (Riot Blade helps I suppose, just wish it wasn't on GCD xD).


Yep, that was me. As far as gla, I can see that making sense. Once you level up some and increase your MND stat, it will certainly help a lot. I'd still put it third fiddle behind con and thm though. But yeah, if it's healing close to 100 a pop... combine that with a thm cure-bombing, and you just effectively gave yourself a healer without filling the role. It's still considerably more convenient to do the runs with a con, and I bet that they didn't one-shot those dungeons without a healer.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 12:07pm by BartelX
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#116 Jul 01 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Oh just to shut louis a bit about his napkin math: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/58773-Dungeon-Difficulty/page3

All dungeons done w/o a CNJ! Even the extra super buffed one for BETA! Smiley: lol


They had a THM, which isn't technically a healer, but is close enough with cure. Nice try though.


Have yo useen how nerfed the heals are outside of THM ? This is the Extra super duper BUFFED!!! Dungeon X100!!!

Also for all we know, they could have just used protect and no heals, for giggles....


Ostia, I would actually do these dungeons with you, with no healer. I'm telling you, I did this as the healer and I barely had time to throw out an Aero for the DOT between heals. On the bosses I was cure-bombing. I cannot imagine a situation where the THM wasn't doing the same.



Then we got a date for next weekend, now i just gotta get bartel to agree and we can press 1-2-3 till our fingers bleed all while not Dying!


And if you get slaughtered?


Don't worry, I'll take plenty of screenshots of my dancing on Ostia's corpse.
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#117 Jul 01 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Default
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What are this other job mechanics ? There are such things Smiley: rolleyes
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#118 Jul 01 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
What are this other job mechanics ? There are such things Smiley: rolleyes

Screenshot
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#119 Jul 01 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
I already ran Sarastasha without a healer. It was a massive pain in the ****. It took us almost the full hour and a half, a bunch of wipes, kiting, etc just to beat it. That was the FIRST dungeon. Why would I want to spend hours trying to prove your point when I already know it's not something that is easy or very enjoyable?


I agree since my experience was similar. We were a LNC, MRD and 2 ARC. We didn't have any real problems until the final boss battle, and we wiped four times. I was actually getting frustrated with our team telling them that without a healer this was imposible. Since we were unorganized during the final battle, we had to take some time to develop an strategy which ultimately worked. I admit though that the MRD had Cure, but he was the only one healing source we had, so we really had to put attention in what we were doing. We succeeded in our fifth run.

Except from Tam Tara (which I personally find it to be the easiest of all), I have died in every dungeon so far at least one time (specially during boss encounters where you dont really know what to do) but once you know what to do (and if your group does as well), dungeons do become repetitive and easy. I only played WoW as a Paladin until level 65, but I feel the dungeons I did in WoW and the ones I am making in FFXIV:ARR Beta have that in common, specially once you get the hang of your class/job and get familiar with your abilities. However, as someone also suggested above, it could be really nice if they add a "hard mode" for dungeons, like the way you chose the level of guildleves. Thus, by adjusting mob difficulty and giving less time to finish the dungeon, experimented players could have have a good run. And to further encourage players to make them on hard more, they could give better loot and experince which would be nice as well :)
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#120elenex, Posted: Jul 01 2013 at 8:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) wow graphics suck. characters look so terrible
#121 Jul 01 2013 at 8:54 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
What are this other job mechanics ? There are such things Smiley: rolleyes


What are this other language? Of the English speak you no?

elenex wrote:
wow graphics suck. characters look so terrible


I hear wearing glasses or contacts and not trying to play it on a TI-86 calculator helps.

Edited, Jul 1st 2013 10:56pm by Viertel
#122 Jul 01 2013 at 9:00 PM Rating: Default
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there are so many straight lines on creatures and characters its disgusting.
#123 Jul 01 2013 at 9:22 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
Ostia wrote:
What are this other job mechanics ? There are such things Smiley: rolleyes

Screenshot


NAH HUH!!! jklsdfjlafjlafj
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#124 Jul 01 2013 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
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elenex wrote:
there are so many straight lines on creatures and characters its disgusting.


What's wrong with being straight? Heterophobia..
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#125 Jul 02 2013 at 12:39 AM Rating: Good
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1. I blame sixstroke for this thread, as usual. (He only made the OP comment no more, as well as the same post in the beta forums) Smiley: disappointed
2. I lol at people who compare these first few dungeons to all of the wow dungeons. Smiley: disappointed
3. LOL at people talking about difficulty when we can't even go past level 35 in the "BETA" Smiley: dubious
4. Duo is wild.... Smiley: disappointed
5. Ostio or however you spell it is wild... Smiley: disappointed
6. Sixstrokes' six post on the beta forums were very insightful... Smiley: laugh
7. Everyone else is cool, and I hate that they made you take this much time out your day to respond to these stupid statements... .... Smiley: disappointed
8. LMAO at the man who wants to level multiple level 50 jobs in a month, and feel its to time consuming or hard to do otherwise... wait ... is he admitting its hard? Smiley: lol
9. There is no 9th statement, but I felt like making one, but I'm tired. Smiley: laugh
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