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#52 Jul 03 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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The problem with this story is the fact that he was arrested at all. Thirteen years ago you never would have seen this happening. Yes what he said was very insensitive and in poor taste, but he should have at most been "talked" to or reccomended for anger management. The First Amendment protects groups like La Raza (The Race in Spanish) when they hold rallies encouraging those of Hispanic heritage that the United States rightfully belongs to them and that they should go "Kill all white people, rape their women, and murder their children". The same was true when the Black Panthers would say similar things during the civil rights movement, and don't even get me started on the KKK. The only differences between this kid and those groups are that he doesn't have an army of lawyers and the resources to actually go through with what he said. A man is judged by his actions, not his words, after all.

He is being made and example of to scare other people into being less likely to use their inalienable right of free speech. Not to mention that it was obviously a sarcastic troll comment. Perhaps if they had some younger people that actually knew what the internet was they could have realized that. If you condone putting him in jail for his word than you condone putting yourself and everyone else there whenever you say something that someone else might not like. This is a very slippery slope and we are no longer anywhere near the top. I'd rather not shoot for the bottom any quicker than I have to, I know what's down there.

Hint: It's King Tryndamere waiting in a bush, only his ult won't wear off until a good portion of your team has died, If it wears off at all.


Also it's worth mentioning the larger implications this case could have. It would be even more fuel for net censorship along with the whole anti-bullying thing.



Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 2:30pm by DamienSScott
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#53 Jul 03 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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DamienSScott wrote:
He is being made and example of to scare other people into being less likely to use their inalienable right of free speech.
Facebook is a private site, and much like Zam means that freedom of speech is a formality at best, and if they decide they don't like what you say they can do whatever they want, whether that be a verbal reprimand, mute you, or flat out ban you. It's right there on their Terms of Service you agree to while finalizing registering. Not only that but freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want, wherever you want. What the kid said was examined, and determined that he overstepped the set boundaries that he agreed to and he was reprimanded accordingly. Most people seem to forget that the wording for Freedom of Speech doesn't end at "the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property" but at "to anyone who is willing to receive them."
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#54 Jul 03 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
DamienSScott wrote:
He is being made and example of to scare other people into being less likely to use their inalienable right of free speech.
Facebook is a private site, and much like Zam means that freedom of speech is a formality at best, and if they decide they don't like what you say they can do whatever they want, whether that be a verbal reprimand, mute you, or flat out ban you. It's right there on their Terms of Service you agree to while finalizing registering.


The person youre responding to specifically mentioned the arrest as the issue, not Facebook's actions to mute or ban him.

You're confusing the fact that the 1st amendment does not restrict private entities with the idea that if you say something in a private space, the 1st amendment doesn't apply. It actually doesn't matter where the speech occurs, what matters is who is trying to restrict it. The first amendment bars government from restricting speech, though there are numerous exceptions such as "yelling Fire in a crowded theater."

It's far off topic for this forum, but the issue in that case is whether or not government has any grounds to restrict that particular speech, which if taken literally could be interpreted as a threat, but which was also clearly sarcasm.



Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 3:09pm by KarlHungis
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#55 Jul 03 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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I suppose Facebook would have been in the right then to ban/delete his account, however I still firmly believe that he should have not been arrested. The fact that he was arrested for a "terroristic threat" really turns my stomach. It shows all of these post 9/11 laws aren't just for those coming from another country with intention to do harm, but American citizens as well. While this might, MIGHT, be alright for those that truly conspire or actually commit atrocious acts, it most certainly is not OK to use these laws against ordinary citizens. We don't really seem to afford terrorists the same rights that we supposedly have, so if any American can easily be classified as a terrorist for something that they say/do those rights go right out the window.

Oh, and I don't believe it was anyone from Facebook that actually notified the police, although I'm not sure about that.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 3:00pm by DamienSScott
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#56 Jul 03 2013 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis wrote:
You're confusing the fact that the 1st amendment does not restrict private entities with the idea that if you say something in a private space, the 1st amendment doesn't apply.
Not at all, as the rest of the post you've deliberately censored explained. In public the Freedom of Speech is much more limited than most people allow themselves to believe. Like you mentioned, there are many limitations to the Freedom of Speech, similar to the "fire in crowded" space you mentioned. You can be punished for libel, obscenity, slander, sedition, copyright violations. All the FoS says is that you're free to say something, not free from the responsibility after saying it.
DamienSScott wrote:
The fact that he was arrested for a "terroristic threat" really turns my stomach. It shows all of these post 9/11 laws aren't just for those coming from another country with intention to do harm, but American citizens as well.
It isn't new, though. It's just more public. You could always get arrested for threatening bodily harm on people. You could also be arrested for inciting riots. Fake bomb and fire threats were also always on the books. The only reason it appears new is because people on Facebook, and the internet in general, don't even know the laws that they think protect them and turn them into idiots.
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#57 Jul 03 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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The reason you really got banned was that the mods have seen this played out before and it's just boring. (Ok, maybe slightly entertaining form a third party point of view.) Really they are hoping you will discuss the game, not other posters' terminology and how you feel about it.

Judging from gaming forums all over the internet, I doubt gamers will ever realize how very much they have in common, and how very little they are different.


I picture the arguments that typical Lodestone regulars have as though they were as a bunch of siblings fighting in the car over how it's not fair the others got more candy than they did. What happened to Mekiri is that SE, as the parent in this analogy, finally had enough of the pointless bickering, stopped the car, and made him walk the rest of the way home.
#58 Jul 03 2013 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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So I have learned from this thread, that using dps as a noun is not in violation of the first amendment. but you must still suffer the consequences like banning and/or jail time.

or the thread derailed and I didn't notice.
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#59 Jul 03 2013 at 1:21 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
You're confusing the fact that the 1st amendment does not restrict private entities with the idea that if you say something in a private space, the 1st amendment doesn't apply.
Not at all, as the rest of the post you've deliberately censored explained.


I didn't "censor" anything. I responded to one of your ideas which was completely wrong. The fact that such speech takes place in a privately owned space doesn't change the relevance of the first amendment. So I was being deliberately generous by saying you're confused.

In fact, the rest of your post continued your flawed "private property" reasoning by talking about the "rules he agreed to" and so forth. It's okay to sometimes admit when you're wrong, lolgaxe, because God knows it's really often.


Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 3:28pm by KarlHungis
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#60 Jul 03 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Imios wrote:
So I have learned from this thread, that using dps as a noun is not in violation of the first amendment. but you must still suffer the consequences like banning and/or jail time.
You can use dps as a noun, and your getting called an idiot is the consequence.
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#61 Jul 03 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Back during UO, you called the little picture where you equipped armor and weapons a "paper doll".
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#62 Jul 03 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
It isn't new, though. It's just more public. You could always get arrested for threatening bodily harm on people. You could also be arrested for inciting riots. Fake bomb and fire threats were also always on the books. The only reason it appears new is because people on Facebook, and the internet in general, don't even know the laws that they think protect them and turn them into idiots.


I'll be the first to admit that I don't know the intricacies of particular laws or law in general like most people (partly why these things are getting the way they are), but if he was to be arrested it should have been for one of those specific things, not a blanket term of terrorism. But I suppose in the war that can never end and can never we won you will need boogie-men from time to time.

They don't go arresting every Husband or Wife that threatens to kill their spouse, even though they would be more likely to follow through with it. And they don't arrest every unsatisfied customer that threatens bodily harm on the person that got their Big Mac order wrong. After the shootings this past year I'm sure the officers were just delighted to jump at the opportunity for some possibly high profile case. The kid is being made an example of.
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#63 Jul 03 2013 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Imios wrote:
So I have learned from this thread, that using dps as a noun is not in violation of the first amendment. but you must still suffer the consequences like banning and/or jail time.
You can use dps as a noun, and your getting called an idiot is the consequence.


so no jail time? good. I prefer to call my character a DG which in my mind is a damage generator. I use other resources as in TP and MP, and with those resources I generate a constant flow of Damage.
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#64 Jul 03 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
Back during UO, you called the little picture where you equipped armor and weapons a "paper doll".


They still use that term officially in games today. FFXIV does and I think WoW does as well.

Imios wrote:
So I have learned from this thread, that using dps as a noun is not in violation of the first amendment. but you must still suffer the consequences like banning and/or jail time.


This made me lol quite a bit.
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#65 Jul 03 2013 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Imios wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Imios wrote:
So I have learned from this thread, that using dps as a noun is not in violation of the first amendment. but you must still suffer the consequences like banning and/or jail time.
You can use dps as a noun, and your getting called an idiot is the consequence.


so no jail time? good. I prefer to call my character a DG which in my mind is a damage generator. I use other resources as in TP and MP, and with those resources I generate a constant flow of Damage.


I go with "damage propagation specialist" or "dps" for short.
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#66 Jul 03 2013 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis wrote:
Imios wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Imios wrote:
So I have learned from this thread, that using dps as a noun is not in violation of the first amendment. but you must still suffer the consequences like banning and/or jail time.
You can use dps as a noun, and your getting called an idiot is the consequence.


so no jail time? good. I prefer to call my character a DG which in my mind is a damage generator. I use other resources as in TP and MP, and with those resources I generate a constant flow of Damage.


I go with "damage propagation specialist" or "dps" for short.


Destruction Perpetuation Superhero lol
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#67 Jul 03 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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#68 Jul 03 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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Dynamic Penetration Stabs.

And I've got a whole bunch of them that are far south of safe for work.
#69 Jul 03 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Damage Producing Skirmishers. But damned if "Damage Propagation Specialist" isn't the best.
#70 Jul 03 2013 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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DamienSScott wrote:
They don't go arresting every Husband or Wife that threatens to kill their spouse, even though they would be more likely to follow through with it. And they don't arrest every unsatisfied customer that threatens bodily harm on the person that got their Big Mac order wrong.
Not every, but they always could. And frankly, maybe someone needs to be made an example of to finally wake all these kids up about what their rights really are. Of course, that's a ridiculous dream and we'll be back on this the next time someone uploads pictures of duct taped pipes and poetry about exploding schools.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 3:46pm by lolgaxe
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#71 Jul 03 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
lolgaxe wrote:
DamienSScott wrote:
He is being made and example of to scare other people into being less likely to use their inalienable right of free speech.
Facebook is a private site, and much like Zam means that freedom of speech is a formality at best, and if they decide they don't like what you say they can do whatever they want, whether that be a verbal reprimand, mute you, or flat out ban you. It's right there on their Terms of Service you agree to while finalizing registering. Not only that but freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want, wherever you want. What the kid said was examined, and determined that he overstepped the set boundaries that he agreed to and he was reprimanded accordingly. Most people seem to forget that the wording for Freedom of Speech doesn't end at "the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property" but at "to anyone who is willing to receive them."


Agreed. The First Amendment does not give you the right to say whatever you want, whenever, however, and to whoever you please. It limits the Federal Government from officially restricting what you can say in regards to religion, politics, or beliefs. Private sector is a totally different ball game.
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#72 Jul 03 2013 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
DamienSScott wrote:
They don't go arresting every Husband or Wife that threatens to kill their spouse, even though they would be more likely to follow through with it. And they don't arrest every unsatisfied customer that threatens bodily harm on the person that got their Big Mac order wrong.
Not every, but they always could. And frankly, maybe someone needs to be made an example of to finally wake all these kids up about what their rights really are. Of course, that's a ridiculous dream and we'll be back on this the next time someone uploads pictures of duct taped pipes and poetry about exploding schools.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 3:46pm by lolgaxe


So somehow throwing a nineteen year old kid in jail for an ignorant facebook post is what needed to be done? How about actually talking to the kid... asking if he's serious, give him a psych evaluation, send him to counseling. Nope, months in prison and a 500k bail. Yep, great example.

What's next, chips in our brains that alert the authorities when we get road rage? Or better yet, we could let some weird, creepy pre-cogs foresee when crimes will happen and just arrest people before they even do things a la Minority Report. I mean hey, we gotta make examples out of someone, right? Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 4:08pm by BartelX
#73 Jul 03 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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The family of Justin Carter, the 19-year old Texas gamer who made offensive Facebook comments that landed him in jail


Huge difference between a 13 year old and a 19 year old threatening to shoot up a kidergarten. With Newtown fresh in peoples mind I doubt they will let something that stupid slide.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/07/justin-carter-remains-jailed-months-after-facebook-shooting-threat-90905.html

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 4:08pm by PyrielDD
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#74 Jul 03 2013 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not going to go on too long of a rant about it, but anyone who would even begin to defend that case is the problem with our country right now. You don't deserve your rights if you would willingly have them trampled on.

He was making a joke and he maybe he deserved to be investigated, not jailed. Stand up comedians make worse jokes every day - why should they get a pass but some kid online doesn't when he clearly said "lol jk"?

Just a disgusting story. So disappointed in my country. Justin Carter (the 19-year-old) is on suicide watch after being assaulted by prisoners.

and lolgaxe I usually ignore your posts but you're a disgusting little creature.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 4:14pm by Killua125
#75 Jul 03 2013 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
I'm not going to go on a huge long rant about it, but anyone who would even begin to defend that case is the problem with our country right now. You don't deserve your rights if you would willingly have them trampled on.

He was making a joke and he maybe he deserved to be investigated, not jailed. Stand up comedians make worse jokes every day - why should they get a pass but some kid online doesn't when he clearly said "lol jk"?

Just a disgusting story. So disappointed in my country. Justin Carter (the 19-year-old) is on suicide watch after being assaulted by prisoners.


I'm not getting into a thing either since I don't know Texas laws beyond the fact they are strict, and I was not debating whether prison is the right sentence or not (I think its ridiculous). I was merely stating that a 19 year old should know better and the US is a bit more paranoid about things like this now. In my opinion he should have been investigated and I think the proper response would have been a fine and community service.
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#76 Jul 03 2013 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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PyrielDD wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
I'm not going to go on a huge long rant about it, but anyone who would even begin to defend that case is the problem with our country right now. You don't deserve your rights if you would willingly have them trampled on.

He was making a joke and he maybe he deserved to be investigated, not jailed. Stand up comedians make worse jokes every day - why should they get a pass but some kid online doesn't when he clearly said "lol jk"?

Just a disgusting story. So disappointed in my country. Justin Carter (the 19-year-old) is on suicide watch after being assaulted by prisoners.


I'm not getting into a thing either since I don't know Texas laws beyond the fact they are strict, and I was not debating whether prison is the right sentence or not (I think its ridiculous). I was merely stating that a 19 year old should know better and the US is a bit more paranoid about things like this now. In my opinion he should have been investigated and I think the proper response would have been a fine and community service.


Killua, I actually completely agree with you for once. Rate-up. Pyriel, I knew he was nineteen, I read the article, it was just a typo because I had been thinking about Damien's comment how thirteen years ago this would never happen. It doesn't matter, a thirteen or nineteen year old shouldn't be thrown in jail for this, at least not unless they were given proper psych evaluations and determined by multiple professionals to be a threat to society. Even then, I'd rather have them in a mental institution hopefully being rehabilitated than be thrown in jail to be tormented, abused, raped, and then finally thrown naked into solitary confinement. It's just so disheartening.
#77 Jul 03 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
I'm not going to go on too long of a rant about it, but anyone who would even begin to defend that case is the problem with our country right now. You don't deserve your rights if you would willingly have them trampled on.

He was making a joke and he maybe he deserved to be investigated, not jailed. Stand up comedians make worse jokes every day - why should they get a pass but some kid online doesn't when he clearly said "lol jk"?

Just a disgusting story. So disappointed in my country. Justin Carter (the 19-year-old) is on suicide watch after being assaulted by prisoners.

and lolgaxe I usually ignore your posts but you're a disgusting little creature.


That's why we have trials. There's reasonable suspicion he was uttering threats to kill children at a nearby school. This seems like a good time to review the case in front of a judge, if you ask me, especially given the threat of copy-cat killers. Now, if he was just outright slain for uttering threats, or sent to jail forever without his day in court, this would be a violation of his rights, and I would be outraged. But so far, there is nothing unconstitutional about what's happening that I can see.

Threatening to commit mass murder against children doesn't get less shocking by adding "lol jk" afterwards. If anything, I'd be wondering how a rational person could think that was funny, and I'd be even more concerned.
#78 Jul 03 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
Threatening to commit mass murder against children doesn't get less shocking by adding "lol jk" afterwards. If anything, I'd be wondering how a rational person could think that was funny, and I'd be even more concerned.


I certainly don't think it's funny. But I think it's even worse to toss the kid to the wolves and ruin the rest of his life over a comment on a message board, to which he immediately admitted he was joking about. It was an awful thing to say, and he definitely should have been kicked off Facebook and forced into counselling and evaluations... not sent to jail to rot for months, on a 500k bond no less. 500k, are you freaking kidding me? How is that constitutional when he didn't even actually do anything? Rapists and grand larceny criminals have lower bonds.
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