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#27 Jul 03 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I never played 1.0 it just looked horrible. I am however buying (already ordered) this game. I will be playing it on PS3.
#28 Jul 03 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:


Two things: first, this is exactly why the battle system and the storyline itself introduces the different concepts at different levels, starting as low as level 5. You start learning about multiple mob targeting, avoiding AoE, using consumables, working in a group, etc. It builds pretty steadily so that new players can learn as they go.

Second, why are you even talking about 1-10 when we're talking about endgame? If anything is a moot point, it's your comment in general. New players have nothing to do with endgame.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 1:31pm by BartelX



The point is, if players who are in the game for an in depth battle system are put off by the simplicity of the battle system in the beginning of the game, they'll never make it to the latter portions to experience the "in-depth" battle system that supposedly await us. I did prefix my statement by saying "new gamer."

(p.s. what's with the bad attitude, did I insult you in some way?)

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 2:00pm by ClydesShadow
#29 Jul 03 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
The point is, if players who are in the game for an in depth battle system are put off by the simplicity of the battle system in the beginning of the game, they'll never make it to the latter portions to experience the "in-depth" battle system that supposedly await us. I did prefix my statement by saying "new gamer."


Honestly, I haven't seen many threads from people lately who think the battle system is so overly simple that they won't play the game. That seemed to be more of the case before Phase 3, but the changes regarding positioning/mob TP moves/adjusting abilities/removing ability cooldowns/etc. seem to have really firmed up this battle system.

Sure, there's room for improvement, and I'm certain improvements will keep happening... but the foundation of this battle system is fine, and it's no longer something that will drive people away.
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#30 Jul 03 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
The point is, if players who are in the game for an in depth battle system are put off by the simplicity of the battle system in the beginning of the game, they'll never make it to the latter portions to experience the "in-depth" battle system that supposedly await us. I did prefix my statement by saying "new gamer."


Honestly, I haven't seen many threads from people lately who think the battle system is so overly simple that they won't play the game. That seemed to be more of the case before Phase 3, but the changes regarding positioning/mob TP moves/adjusting abilities/removing ability cooldowns/etc. seem to have really firmed up this battle system.

Sure, there's room for improvement, and I'm certain improvements will keep happening... but the foundation of this battle system is fine, and it's no longer something that will drive people away.



I agree, I think the battle system offers a nice mixture of depth and ease of use... while also keeping the players on their toes by requiring dodging of mobs attacks.

I was only commenting in regards to individuals in this particular thread who are slightly put off by the system, they might leave the game before getting to experience some of the better content... I do believe that the first few levels are rather simple and only involve smashing 1,2,1,2... This is probably to be expected though, it is after all the first few levels Smiley: smile
#31 Jul 03 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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PavetlXIV wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
THM's setup is the very reason why enemy elemental resistances and weaknesses have been removed.


This is why BRD is so lame. with the above statement, Foe Requiem is virtually useless.



Suppliant the word "elemental resistance" to 'Magical Resistance'. It's a magical damage received debuff, it's not useless at all - works the same way piercing resistance down does.
#32 Jul 03 2013 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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PavetlXIV wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
THM's setup is the very reason why enemy elemental resistances and weaknesses have been removed.


This is why BRD is so lame. with the above statement, Foe Requiem is virtually useless.


Wouldn't it just mean that the enemy's elemental resistance (for all spells) is set at one value, and Foe Requiem would drop that value by 10%?
#33 Jul 03 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
PavetlXIV wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
THM's setup is the very reason why enemy elemental resistances and weaknesses have been removed.


This is why BRD is so lame. with the above statement, Foe Requiem is virtually useless.



Suppliant the word "elemental resistance" to 'Magical Resistance'. It's a magical damage received debuff, it's not useless at all - works the same way piercing resistance down does.


I see...well that makes sense. Im just really disapointed on BRD mechanics, specificaly the songs.
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#34 Jul 03 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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I never played FFXIV 1.0 but I have been a FF fanboy since the very first game for NES. When FFIV came out for SNES as FF2 I was in heaven, reading Nintendo Power for weeks before the game was finally released and I still play it, even recently. I haven't captured that kind of FF nostalgia again since. VII came close, and XIV is the only other game coming close again.

I did not play XI because it abandoned everything I loved about the series; that "good book" storyline, strong character development and feeling attached to them (Aeris takes the cake). I'm not interested in wandering around aimlessly with little reason to care, or any way to beat the game. A pointless waste of time I thought of all MMOs really.

Fast forward to ARR and they absolutely nailed it for me. The game plays fun as a 1 player, but you get the MMO aspect seamlessly integrated. Granted the character development isn't anything to rave about, but the battle system is. I loathed the battle system in XII. Turn based isn't bad but I really like how they've made it possible to stack different types of skills. The jobs available are perfect. Paladin and Dragoon? Hello Cecil and Kain!

This game is a total blast and I'm hooked, counting down the hours until the next beta session. I've already pre-ordered and I will give this one reason why this game is going to be successful. Square-Enix has done what true fans have been asking for. XIII was an exercise in frustration and this game is a breath of fresh air, and this game has provided everything I felt was missing. I love the FATE system, and the other MMO aspects are the icing on the cake.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 2:44pm by ErikHighwind
#35 Jul 03 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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I hate it when people mention something without going into specifics, it leaves no room for conversation to improve those mechanics.

For example: What's specifically wrong about the Bard Songs? There are multiple points to them.

1. One song at a time.
2. Maintenance Cost.
3. Distance to bard.
4. Damage Penalty.

I've an opinion on all of them, of course.

One Song at a time: I don't mind this, it forces Bards to think about who they are supporting. It was pretty much too easy to walk around rotating songs about and support everyone, then deal damage on the side. It made them a permanent staple in parties. Now, they can choose how they're supporting.

Maintance Cost: IMO it's too high right now without any substantial method of restoration. This could be aided by giving Bard access to Shroud of Saints on top of existing methods.

Distance from Bard: Same as One song at a time, I feel this is a non-issue. It gives Bard a positioning mechanic that I feel adds to the depth of the class.

Damage Penalty: While it miffs me a bit, given the fact that Bard is giving damage to everyone in the party through Rain of Death as well as Songs. I do feel as if there should be more effects for the loss of healing ability Bard has suffered in adjustments. Perhaps having the two buff songs providing a small Healing over Time effect as well.

Overall I feel as if there isn't enough trade-off for what was lost in total bard songs. I don't mind the mechanics created for it.
#36 Jul 03 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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ClydesShadow wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
The point is, if players who are in the game for an in depth battle system are put off by the simplicity of the battle system in the beginning of the game, they'll never make it to the latter portions to experience the "in-depth" battle system that supposedly await us. I did prefix my statement by saying "new gamer."


Honestly, I haven't seen many threads from people lately who think the battle system is so overly simple that they won't play the game. That seemed to be more of the case before Phase 3, but the changes regarding positioning/mob TP moves/adjusting abilities/removing ability cooldowns/etc. seem to have really firmed up this battle system.

Sure, there's room for improvement, and I'm certain improvements will keep happening... but the foundation of this battle system is fine, and it's no longer something that will drive people away.



I agree, I think the battle system offers a nice mixture of depth and ease of use... while also keeping the players on their toes by requiring dodging of mobs attacks.

I was only commenting in regards to individuals in this particular thread who are slightly put off by the system, they might leave the game before getting to experience some of the better content... I do believe that the first few levels are rather simple and only involve smashing 1,2,1,2... This is probably to be expected though, it is after all the first few levels Smiley: smile


I could be the problem then. Maybe it's my experience with EQ and WoW. The first few levels kinda bore me to death. I need to stop alt swapping and stick with a class and level it up.

Although y'all's discussion of BRD song mechanics are kinda pushing me (citing EQ1 Bard nostalgia) towards the one class I have yet to touch. Any similarities between bard songs in EQ1 and the songs in FF XIV? (I.e., is there twisting?)
#37 Jul 03 2013 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
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ClydesShadow wrote:
The point is, if players who are in the game for an in depth battle system are put off by the simplicity of the battle system in the beginning of the game, they'll never make it to the latter portions to experience the "in-depth" battle system that supposedly await us. I did prefix my statement by saying "new gamer."

(p.s. what's with the bad attitude, did I insult you in some way?)


Nope, not at all. I'm just rather blunt in my responses because I don't like to sugarcoat things. In regards to your statement, new gamers had nothing to do with the comments that were posted. We were discussing combat at endgame, prefacing your comment wiht "new gamer" doesn't make it any less moot. Yes I realize you have to go through the beginning to get to the end, but if people aren't reasonable enough to realize there will be a progression in levels, and that things will gradually become more complex like every other mmo in existence, then I don't think anyone is really going to miss them.

Have you ever played an mmo where the first 5-10 levels aren't just spamming 1-2 or 1-2-3 over and over? I haven't. Also, that's why I made my first point about how the battle system unravels itself out in layers, starting very early to draw people in.


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#38 Jul 03 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
ClydesShadow wrote:
The point is, if players who are in the game for an in depth battle system are put off by the simplicity of the battle system in the beginning of the game, they'll never make it to the latter portions to experience the "in-depth" battle system that supposedly await us. I did prefix my statement by saying "new gamer."

(p.s. what's with the bad attitude, did I insult you in some way?)


Nope, not at all. I'm just rather blunt in my responses because I don't like to sugarcoat things. In regards to your statement, new gamers had nothing to do with the comments that were posted. We were discussing combat at endgame, prefacing your comment wiht "new gamer" doesn't make it any less moot. Yes I realize you have to go through the beginning to get to the end, but if people aren't reasonable enough to realize there will be a progression in levels, and that things will gradually become more complex like every other mmo in existence, then I don't think anyone is really going to miss them.

Have you ever played an mmo where the first 5-10 levels aren't just spamming 1-2 or 1-2-3 over and over? I haven't. Also, that's why I made my first point about how the battle system unravels itself out in layers, starting very early to draw people in.




Just because the point I made didn't stick exactly to the narrative you were speaking about doesn't make it irrelevant, I'm sorry if you don't understand the concept of an adjunct point.

#39 Jul 03 2013 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:

Have you ever played an mmo where the first 5-10 levels aren't just spamming 1-2 or 1-2-3 over and over? I haven't. Also, that's why I made my first point about how the battle system unravels itself out in layers, starting very early to draw people in.





Guild Wars 2 you can learn every ability for every equippable weapon by level 2 if you wanted to.

Thats also why it gets boring fast, in my opinion.
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#40 Jul 03 2013 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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ClydesShadow wrote:
Just because the point I made didn't stick exactly to the narrative you were speaking about doesn't make it irrelevant, I'm sorry if you don't understand the concept of an adjunct point.


Your point had nothing to do with the topic. It was a discussion of combat at endgame from someone who had already clearly stated they wanted to try it out at endgame, meaning not a new gamer. That has nothing to do with new gamers, hence making your point irrelevant. Had you made it a separate argument, stating simply that new gamers would have a different approach to the combat engine than those at endgame, I would have agreed with you. Instead, you called my point moot by using something completely unrelated. It wasn't supplementary, it was unrelated in the context of the argument. That's not an adjunct point.

Quote:
Guild Wars 2 you can learn every ability for every equippable weapon by level 2 if you wanted to.

Thats also why it gets boring fast, in my opinion.


Ah true, forgot about GW2... even so you'd have at most 5 skills. And yeah, I agree... that's what I found boring about it. Same 5 skills for most of the game.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 4:21pm by BartelX
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#41 Jul 03 2013 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ah true, forgot about GW2... even so you'd have at most 5 skills. And yeah, I agree... that's what I found boring about it. Same 5 skills for most of the game.


It also didn't really matter what you did (and I'm talking about fights at the level cap, not in the initial 10 to 15 levels). I never found any real benefit of stunning anything, and it didn't matter really where you stood in relation to the mob. Some moves were AoE, some weren't. Either way, you could pretty much hit whatever buttons you wanted, and as long as you were the right level for the area, you weren't in any danger.

And yeah, allowing all the skills to be learned right off the bat was a huge mistake.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 1:30pm by Thayos
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#42 Jul 03 2013 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's kinda like dating (although I haven't dated in 10 years, since I met my wife).

You need an initial attraction; but you know that there's something about her, or him, after the first few dates that suggests you'll be together for a while.

I've dated women who were a bit more flashy, wore a bit more make-up and were in some cases prettier, but I didn't feel that connection, or substance behind that connection, like I do with my wife...

Yes, my wife is ARR.

Smiley: eek

Seriously though, I think ARR will be initially widely successful but like most MMOs people will get bored, or not appreciate the atmosphere in ARR the way fans might.

If updates, patches and content is added at a good pace, if Yoshi can keep up his level of enthusiasm for a few more years (I don't see how this is possible and actually see him resigning within a year or two because of stress) then ARR will have a pretty large sub base (not record breaking) for a while.
#43 Jul 03 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriously though, I think ARR will be initially widely successful but like most MMOs people will get bored, or not appreciate the atmosphere in ARR the way fans might.


Yeah, this is really the nature of the beast. A lot of younger gamers just don't have the attention spans to really immerse themselves in just one MMO. You could argue that WoW is an exception, but even WoW is losing tons of subscribers, and many subscribers who I know are extremely on-again, off-again kinds of players.

I agree though that FFXIV will eventually settle down with a good-size playerbase, just as FFXI did, and that the game will be around for years to come.
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#44 Jul 03 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Default
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Yeah, Yoshi-P looks like he's about to die. I'm sure it's especially stressful that the game is coming out in August. Something tells me he didn't come up with that release date himself.
#45Ostia, Posted: Jul 03 2013 at 4:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Different class mechanics Smiley: lol Oh gods you guys try to hard sometimes
#46 Jul 03 2013 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
ClydesShadow wrote:
Just because the point I made didn't stick exactly to the narrative you were speaking about doesn't make it irrelevant, I'm sorry if you don't understand the concept of an adjunct point.


Your point had nothing to do with the topic. It was a discussion of combat at endgame from someone who had already clearly stated they wanted to try it out. That has nothing to do with new gamers, hence making your point irrelevant. Had you made it a separate argument, stating simply that new gamers would have a different approach to the combat engine than those at endgame, I would have agreed with you. Instead, you called my point moot by using something completely unrelated. It wasn't supplementary, it was unrelated in the context of the argument. That's not an adjunct point.


The previous individual in the thread said that he was dismayed by the lack of depth of the battle system... I did not call your point moot, in fact I agree with the statement you made, I said the point is moot to a new gamer who doesn't give the game a proper chance because the he dislikes the battle system (as it related to the individual the discussion was being had with.)
#47 Jul 03 2013 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Different class mechanics Smiley: lol Oh gods you guys try to hard sometimes



Just because you can't understand the complexity of the system doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It's funny Hyrist writes a well thought out description of the mechanics... you respond with a mocking 1-liner Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Jul 3rd 2013 7:36pm by ClydesShadow
#48Ostia, Posted: Jul 03 2013 at 5:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Complexity.... Indeed Smiley: lol Please i am actually pretty sure now, that most of you are casual players, that do not understand theorycrafting nor how combat works in this game, i still cannot even understand how some of you are even allowed to post still, considering some of you have been wrong about the game 100% of the time, i remember clearly when i said in Beta Phase 2 that combat was a major problem and that they will need to address it, yet you all crucify me "Oh ostia you are trolling, combat is fine" yet before Beta Phase 3 started what did yoshi P released ? Oh a statement about combat being addressed Smiley: lol Guess i was not trolling huh ?
#49 Jul 03 2013 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Another big part of the reason that a lot of people aren't excited about the beta registrant numbers is that they're inflated. Don't get me wrong here; I'm not trying to say they're artificially inflated by SE to make the game look good, but inflated by people who register multiple times with various email addresses trying to guarantee a spot. In the very thread you referenced, there was someone who flat out said they had registered under 5 different alias.

I do give more weight to reviews, but still not much. We're still in the phase of the game where things could change suddenly. Just like others have said, wait until after the game is released to try and gauge what sort of momentum the game carried over from beta testing and how long it's sustained for.
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#50 Jul 03 2013 at 6:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Complexity.... Indeed Smiley: lol Please i am actually pretty sure now, that most of you are casual players, that do not understand theorycrafting nor how combat works in this game, i still cannot even understand how some of you are even allowed to post still...


One of us in this thread was recently and very publicly on the edge of not being allowed to post here ever again. Something about the way he mercilessly attacks mild-mannered posters and then makes wild accusations against the admins who try to reign him in. You may have heard of him.

Ostia wrote:
...considering some of you have been wrong about the game 100% of the time, i remember clearly when i said in Beta Phase 2 that combat was a major problem and that they will need to address it, yet you all crucify me "Oh ostia you are trolling, combat is fine" yet before Beta Phase 3 started what did yoshi P released ? Oh a statement about combat being addressed Smiley: lol Guess i was not trolling huh ?


Offering a reasoned criticism of the game is exactly what this forum is for. Calling everyone who doesn't agree with you "wrong about the game 100% of the time" is trolling. It's all in the delivery, really. Making it about the game and not about the people is a good place to start.
#51Ostia, Posted: Jul 03 2013 at 6:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wild accusations ? Such as ? If i had been making false wild accusations as you say... Would i not be banned right now ? Funny how i am not ?
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