Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

The Horrors of the Duty Finder.Follow

#1 Jul 07 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
728 posts
I didn't get much time to play this weekend, but when I hopped on yesterday evening I decided to run all of the guildhests for the bonus exp. I decided to do them as CNJ since it seemed to get instant queues and oh boy was I in for a special treat. I ran all of them twice, once solo and once with my friend. In all of those instances there was only one where I didn't end up CNJ tanking the entire time. The worst of which was the level 25 goblin one where the tank only used flash once, after I said something, on a single mob.

Now I can understand not knowing how to tank properly at level 10, and those fights are geared toward that. However I don't understand how someone can level their class to 26+ and still not know how to use fundamental skills. I know it's the beta but there is a point where that excuse just doesn't fly anymore. It isn't difficult to hold threat on everything in this game. It is a bit more involved than WoW's spam AoE threat ability and then spam other 3+ target ability and win, but it isn't that bad. In fact, I find it rather enjoyable myself. Hopefully they don't feel the need to rework threat too much to pick up this slack. I know I could just tank every time I queue up, but I enjoy healing as well.. And I suppose I do end up tanking anyway XD.

Another issue I have with the Duty Finder and dungeons in general is the Need system. It works fine for the most part, but Tanks can need on medium armor and everyone can need on any accessory. I feel like this needs to be limited somewhat so that people can't just need on everything, even if they can't use it on their current character. I know more than once I've unintentionally needed on a piece of medium armor as a tank because the tooltip glitched and showed positive green defense. And with no way of canceling my need roll I end up getting the gear without any way to trade it to the DPS. Then there are accessories. Currently anyone can need on any accessory, regardless of stats. The Accessories are usually the rarest drops in the dungeons, only randomly coming from Treasure Coffers. This can be pretty frustrating when you are CNJ and the only caster earrings currently in the game until level 29 drop and go to a half naked LNC.

I really didn't intend for this to come off as a "people suck" thread, but my experiences with the Duty Finder as a healer were not enjoyable. I have a feeling that I will end up trying my hardest to get most of a full party outside of the Duty Finder before queueing up for a dungeon. I really hope this gets better after launch, otherwise this game might become "Revenge of the Casuals". If this is the level of competent play that will be taken to max level, I sense nerf bats coming to end game content constantly.
____________________________
FFXI: DamienSlvrblade Race: Elvaan Nation: San d'Oria Server: Sylph 2002-2007, Phoenix 2012
PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

FFXIV: Damien Scott Race: Duskwight Elezen GC: Limsa Lominsa Server: Ultros
DoW GLA50 ACN50 PUG50 MAR 50 Rest30+
DoH/DoL All 40+
#2 Jul 07 2013 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,386 posts
Quote:
I really hope this gets better after launch, otherwise this game might become "Revenge of the Casuals".


Where did THAT come from?

You definitely got some bad players there, and that's unavoidable if you aren't putting all your own parties together. But please don't equate players who play the game casually with players who play the game badly. They really aren't the same thing at all.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#3 Jul 07 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*
210 posts
What's the difference between a DF party and a pick-up party? I had equally horrifying experiences as a cnj well before the duty finder was implemented. I'm not really sure how our bad experiences can be blamed on DF.
#4 Jul 07 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
*
230 posts
oh i logged into my character yesterday thats a 1.0 character and all of the duty finder things were locked. DO you have to do the storyline quests in order to unlock those?
#5 Jul 07 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*
121 posts
So far this game seems more complicated but also easier than your average FF game. I don't know if there's any getting around non-skilled players achieving deceptively high levels. I guess that's what Free Companies are for, but with Duty Finder it will span multiple servers so if you can get people in your party before engaging the Duty that should help since they will come with you if they are eligible for the quest.
____________________________
[img]http://xivreborn.com/gen/Erik_Highwind_Coeurl_Classes.jpg[/img]
#6 Jul 07 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,232 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
I really hope this gets better after launch, otherwise this game might become "Revenge of the Casuals".


Where did THAT come from?

You definitely got some bad players there, and that's unavoidable if you aren't putting all your own parties together. But please don't equate players who play the game casually with players who play the game badly. They really aren't the same thing at all.

I was in a party with 3 JP players and we couldn't get past the 2nd orb thingy in the deepcroft. The tank was clueless and the other CNJ (i was also CNJ) kept attacking stuff on his own. It was ridiculous. 2 minutes later my next group filled up and we absolutely whooped ****. It's really luck of the draw. I also saw only the most polite behavior in every run regarding drops. If you're having a crap time with a crap party there's always the option of bailing.
____________________________
Character: Urzol Thrush
Server: Ultros
FC: The Kraken Club

Outshined

Teneleven wrote:
We secretly replaced your tank wemelchor with Foldgers Crystal's. Let's see what happens.

#7 Jul 07 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
*
57 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
I really hope this gets better after launch, otherwise this game might become "Revenge of the Casuals".


Where did THAT come from?

You definitely got some bad players there, and that's unavoidable if you aren't putting all your own parties together. But please don't equate players who play the game casually with players who play the game badly. They really aren't the same thing at all.


+1

You went from "people don't know how to play their class" to insulting "casuals."

And yes, the quality and skill of people you finding thru a LFG tool (no matter what it's called) is always, on average, going to be less than the quality and/or skill of your friends. That's nothing new to MMOs.

It will get slightly better, but not by much. That's not an issue specific to FF XIV.
#8 Jul 07 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*
121 posts
geotrick wrote:
oh i logged into my character yesterday thats a 1.0 character and all of the duty finder things were locked. DO you have to do the storyline quests in order to unlock those?

Yup, your options start out rather limited until you progress in the main storyline quests.
____________________________
[img]http://xivreborn.com/gen/Erik_Highwind_Coeurl_Classes.jpg[/img]
#9 Jul 07 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
ErikHighwind wrote:
geotrick wrote:
oh i logged into my character yesterday thats a 1.0 character and all of the duty finder things were locked. DO you have to do the storyline quests in order to unlock those?

Yup, your options start out rather limited until you progress in the main storyline quests.

Yes, like that you cannot even sell on the AH until you progress fairly far. How many picked up on that?
____________________________
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pawkeshup
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/pawkeshup
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/pawkeshup
Blog: http://pawkeshup.blogspot.com
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#10 Jul 07 2013 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
ErikHighwind wrote:
geotrick wrote:
oh i logged into my character yesterday thats a 1.0 character and all of the duty finder things were locked. DO you have to do the storyline quests in order to unlock those?

Yup, your options start out rather limited until you progress in the main storyline quests.

Yes, like that you cannot even sell on the AH until you progress fairly far. How many picked up on that?

I guess most RMT botters did and are really *******
#11 Jul 07 2013 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
725 posts
Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
ErikHighwind wrote:
geotrick wrote:
oh i logged into my character yesterday thats a 1.0 character and all of the duty finder things were locked. DO you have to do the storyline quests in order to unlock those?

Yup, your options start out rather limited until you progress in the main storyline quests.

Yes, like that you cannot even sell on the AH until you progress fairly far. How many picked up on that?


Oh I didn't realize that, but I needed cotton yarn and noticed there was very little selling on the Boards.
____________________________
http://www.zam.com/Im/Image/242033

Name: Ghost Orchid - LEVEL 50 Bard, BLM, WHM, SMN Craft Level 7 Lucis, 6 4-star crafts: CUL, MIN, Wvr, Bsm, Gsm, Arm, Lth, Crp (Fishing and Alc at level 50)
World: Ultros
#12 Jul 07 2013 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
725 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
ErikHighwind wrote:
[quote=geotrick]oh i logged into my character yesterday thats a 1.0 character and all of the duty finder things were locked. DO you have to do the storyline quests in order to unlock those?

Yup, your options start out rather limited until you progress in the main storyline quests.

Yes, like that you cannot even sell on the AH until you progress fairly far. How many picked up on that?

I guess most RMT botters did and are really ***************

Oh do you think RMT are really bothering with the Beta version? People really buying stuff from RMT?
____________________________
http://www.zam.com/Im/Image/242033

Name: Ghost Orchid - LEVEL 50 Bard, BLM, WHM, SMN Craft Level 7 Lucis, 6 4-star crafts: CUL, MIN, Wvr, Bsm, Gsm, Arm, Lth, Crp (Fishing and Alc at level 50)
World: Ultros
#13 Jul 07 2013 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
Avatar
20 posts
Keep in mind also thay a feature in beta is after reaching level 20 people can bump every other class to
15. Im sure there were alot of people who did this and jumped into duty finder not fully knowing the job skills. Im sure after release it will be much better
#14 Jul 07 2013 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
488 posts
That is the only problem with Duty Finder, you will find more horrible players. Good players tend to group with each other b.c they are in a FC. I play as a CNJ and have had my share of horrible players, I can usually heal through it. You have to take it for what it is, if you can't stand it you need to join a FC on your server and do it that way.

I never worried about this in games like WoW b.c I only grouped with people in my Guild then and in EQ everyone was pretty good b.c if you weren't then you would lose your body.

Death used to mean you had to learn how to play and become better at your class. Death now means you can @#%^ around not try b.c you have no real penalty if you do die.

Edited, Jul 7th 2013 4:38pm by Mopdaddy
#15 Jul 07 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Excellent
*
125 posts
schneiderw wrote:
What's the difference between a DF party and a pick-up party? I had equally horrifying experiences as a cnj well before the duty finder was implemented. I'm not really sure how our bad experiences can be blamed on DF.


Not much, but in a pick up party the group can become better, and agree on running a dungeon 5-7 times making sure everyone comes out with some nice stuff, and form a plan around who's gonna lot what, versus a pick up party where some man is needing and greeding away cause he doesn't care how you feel lol... Plus, when you go multiple times with the same 4 people, eventually you are all passing on stuff because many of your members have those items already, and you get the gear for different classes pretty fast.

As far as the need, and greed. I like it. Then again I'm the type of player who likes to see my comrades get better. So even though I might have a conjurer, if I was on marauder I'm gonna get marauder gear that I "need", and pass that mage gear so my mages get better heading toward the final fight. I did play with some people who were bickering at the fact certain items didn't drop and were mad they lost lots, but you know how Final Fantasy online games work... It always seems the more you want an item, and look for it, the less it will drop all the time. Smiley: lol Plus, the more you worry about drops, and such the more the game becomes a job, or chore. I like to just enjoy the experience and work on communicating and making the game even more fun than it already is.

If you want a lot of items just be prepared for running lots of dungeon runs, and enjoy helping people get wins, getting people gear, and getting great experience points that you get in there. Smiley: grin

#16 Jul 07 2013 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
488 posts
Usually you don't run the same group more then once if the experience was horrible. Usually you are in /tells with the other good players about replacing the weak links. This is what usually happens more often then not.
#17 Jul 07 2013 at 2:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,675 posts
I ran Guildhests through level 15 and the first two Satasha and Tam Tara through the duty finder and all groups went smoothly.

I got invited to a PUG for Copperbell and we wiped like 3 or 4 times. We eventually beat it, but really so far all of my groups have been decent.

Yes I'd rather group with friends or LS mates, and I know that PUGs will always be toss ups, but so far from what I've experienced and heard from others that the DF is a good tool that works.
#18 Jul 07 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,755 posts
Had 1 bad tank in all my lancer DF groups, decided to tank it myself lol.

I have a lot of experience with bad tanks as a {long time} WHM in ffxi, I realise hate seems to be a lot more polarised in ffxiv but I would totally just let everyone die and try to convince them that it was the tanks fault. Most instances you could fallback to a DPS tank I would hope, if you ARE going to play as healer though then I think you should have no trouble hand-picking people you roll with with little need to DF. DF I'm thankful for to just put on in the background and wait 20min for a group as DPS. :P
____________________________
Dwayna
75WHM 75BLM
94+2 Clothcraft
Lakshmi
#19 Jul 07 2013 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
17 posts
I had the exact opposite experience. I used duty finder to do all of my guildheists (as CON) and did each of the Dungeons (level 15-17 as THM, everything higher as CON). I wasn't grouped into a single "bad" party. Each guildheist or dungeon I played was with a different party, and I never had to wait to find a party. I ran Brayflox with at least 5 different parties and had no hard times. Sure, my group died a few times on the poison guildheist... but that was the only one that was any trouble.

Oh and for the Goblin Guildheist, you as a CON, need to sleep all of the Goblins as the melee classes are attacking the blockades. When the blockade falls they should just pick them all off one by one. No flash necessary.

Duty finder rocks. There is no difference between using duty finder or just starting a party of your own like in the old days. Either way, you are playing with random people. This way, its much quicker and you have a pool of players across a number of servers. If it is not to your liking, then I suggest you find a large free company and linkshell (Zam here has a pretty big one). If you have a good enough community, then you won't need to use the DF.
#20 Jul 07 2013 at 3:51 PM Rating: Default
*
62 posts
linkshells
free companies
#21 Jul 07 2013 at 5:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
***
1,310 posts
Grandmomma wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
ErikHighwind wrote:
[quote=geotrick]oh i logged into my character yesterday thats a 1.0 character and all of the duty finder things were locked. DO you have to do the storyline quests in order to unlock those?

Yup, your options start out rather limited until you progress in the main storyline quests.

Yes, like that you cannot even sell on the AH until you progress fairly far. How many picked up on that?

I guess most RMT botters did and are really ***************

Oh do you think RMT are really bothering with the Beta version? People really buying stuff from RMT?


No word of a lie, RMT were crawling all over the 1.0 beta and brazenly shouting their sales in game even though everything was getting wiped. At the very least it's training for them.
#22 Jul 07 2013 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*
220 posts
You can't stop RMT as long as people are willing to buy it.
____________________________
#23 Jul 07 2013 at 5:40 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*
217 posts
To the original post: I'm really sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. I, for one, had nothing but great experiences with the Duty Finder, and the groups I was matched up with. Each time, the groups were very courteous and never rolled on anything they couldn't use on their current character. All in all, I ended up with a wand, rope for my waist, and an earring. All of this from three different groups, and dungeons. I hope the groups you were matched with won't shatter your faith in the whole system.
____________________________
Aeloriel Autumnleaf - Ultros Server

Karma Zameleons - LS
The Kraken Club - Zam Free Company

It's not the destination, it's the Journey!

#24 Jul 07 2013 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
728 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Where did THAT come from?


I suppose I could have worded that differently, but what I was trying to get at is that the game is so catered to solo play that some players get to 20+ and still don't know/don't care to know how to use their class as it was intended in party play. If this weekend was any indication there are going to be a lot of players that are going to get to max level and then be completely blindsided by the proposed "hard" content.
____________________________
FFXI: DamienSlvrblade Race: Elvaan Nation: San d'Oria Server: Sylph 2002-2007, Phoenix 2012
PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

FFXIV: Damien Scott Race: Duskwight Elezen GC: Limsa Lominsa Server: Ultros
DoW GLA50 ACN50 PUG50 MAR 50 Rest30+
DoH/DoL All 40+
#25 Jul 07 2013 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,652 posts
I don't know... I did a run this past weekend at level 17 and thought it was so low that it was going to go bad with new people not knowing their job but the tank was excellent. Anytime anyone got hate he got it back. Same with Tesee's run when I watched her... The tank was awsum.. I think FFXIV attracts more experienced players for some reason. Maybe because of FFXI reputation for being hard.

I do understand and see the point though, I like that you dont have to party all the time.. This game seems to have more paths, you can solo if need be or you can party or fight your way through and I hope it stays the same way all the way through... Why not offer both ways to level, missions or party.



Edited, Jul 7th 2013 8:03pm by Nashred
____________________________
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
#26 Jul 07 2013 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
728 posts
Caeylen wrote:
Oh and for the Goblin Guildheist, you as a CON, need to sleep all of the Goblins as the melee classes are attacking the blockades. When the blockade falls they should just pick them all off one by one. No flash necessary.


Well I was only level 25 when I went in, so no Redoubt yet, but believe me I will be spamming that spell more than cure XD. When your only CC is the Water spell it's hard to lock down 6 goblins running at your face. Also, please note that the tank in question also stood in every bomb toss throughout the event, including the boss. While I was able to heal through it just fine I ended up letting him die to the last one he was standing in as the boss died because that's how I teach. I wouldn't do that in a group with people I know, but my patience was wearing thin at that point.

But seriously as a tank I say flash is always necessary, even on single target. It gives a ton of threat and BLINDS for 12s. Not to mention it uses your otherwise completely useless and moderately sized MP pool... but that's just semantics and I see your point.
____________________________
FFXI: DamienSlvrblade Race: Elvaan Nation: San d'Oria Server: Sylph 2002-2007, Phoenix 2012
PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

FFXIV: Damien Scott Race: Duskwight Elezen GC: Limsa Lominsa Server: Ultros
DoW GLA50 ACN50 PUG50 MAR 50 Rest30+
DoH/DoL All 40+
#27 Jul 07 2013 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
*
62 posts
Good MMO will attract good MMO players. it being final fantasy is just an added bonus to me.
This game is the best of all things mmo, armor raid professions etc, and whats usually the best story? a FF one
#28 Jul 07 2013 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,097 posts
I'm looking forward trying to Duty Finder it was put there for slightly "antisocial" solo players and casual players to get a feel of partying tougher challenges without judgement. Bored social linkshell people will know what fights to avoid and still can spend time at hub shouting for the perfect party.A crappy party at least might get pass points playing solo couldn't. That's what will makes it fun.Smiley: smile
____________________________





#29 Jul 07 2013 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
**
660 posts
A buddy of mine tried to get through Ifrit 5 times using the dungeon finder and wiped every time because healers wouldnt heal and dd wouldnt attack the shards at all. He eventually just decided to shout for a group, asking for people who had completed it. Once he had a group together they finished it easily.

May be typical experience, maybe not. That's just what I saw.

Maybe if there was a way to search for people who have completed the content you want to do?
____________________________


#30 Jul 07 2013 at 7:06 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,232 posts
reptiletim wrote:
A buddy of mine tried to get through Ifrit 5 times using the dungeon finder and wiped every time because healers wouldnt heal and dd wouldnt attack the shards at all. He eventually just decided to shout for a group, asking for people who had completed it. Once he had a group together they finished it easily.

May be typical experience, maybe not. That's just what I saw.

Maybe if there was a way to search for people who have completed the content you want to do?

It took me three tries but each group there were people who'd never completed it or it was their first attempt. In the third try we had a quick strategy chat ahead of time and it went fine. Communication is key lol
____________________________
Character: Urzol Thrush
Server: Ultros
FC: The Kraken Club

Outshined

Teneleven wrote:
We secretly replaced your tank wemelchor with Foldgers Crystal's. Let's see what happens.

#31 Jul 07 2013 at 7:10 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,079 posts
It seems people are quicker to complain about sucky people rather than help them. I want to hear a story of a sucky person being mentored by someone and they become something great from it. Not this. The point of the Duty Finder is to help people who are having trouble finding groups, find groups, and also speed up the process. Sure, you have your jerkifers out there, and refuse to adapt or listen, but sometimes it takes a little bit of extra effort to get someone down the right path.
____________________________
FFXIV
Articus Vladmir
PLD WHM BRD DRG BLM
#32 Jul 07 2013 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,150 posts
The only real problem I've had is bad lag in Tam Tara and Sastasha dungeons. The last Sastasha run, I couldn't see the rest of my group at all for the entire dungeon until the final cutscene. Was very frustrating trying to tank that way, but we managed.

Drops have been great for GLA though. Only missing one or two piece (legs) for the full set, including dagger and shield. Hopefully my luck stays through P4 and official release.
____________________________
FFXIV
Deadpool Xrage (Ultros)
Eriston Xrage (Ultros)

FFXI
Eriston
Siren - 75Bst/75Whm/75Rng (Retired June 2010)


Gone surfin'
#33 Jul 07 2013 at 7:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,150 posts
Stilivan wrote:
It seems people are quicker to complain about sucky people rather than help them. I want to hear a story of a sucky person being mentored by someone and they become something great from it. Not this. The point of the Duty Finder is to help people who are having trouble finding groups, find groups, and also speed up the process. Sure, you have your jerkifers out there, and refuse to adapt or listen, but sometimes it takes a little bit of extra effort to get someone down the right path.


Actually this happened to me a few times. For some reason as GLA I've got a bad habit of trying to pull with flash. I'm not sure why, and maybe it has something to do with FFXI (maybe pulled with flash or dia or something like this). Anyway, someone in the group explained to me it wasn't ranged, so had no effect the way I was using it. Also explained the Shield Lob action/quest that I hadn't known about. After the dungeon, I finished the quest. Sometimes people aren't gimpy because they don't care, they just may not know everything about how the game works.
____________________________
FFXIV
Deadpool Xrage (Ultros)
Eriston Xrage (Ultros)

FFXI
Eriston
Siren - 75Bst/75Whm/75Rng (Retired June 2010)


Gone surfin'
#34 Jul 07 2013 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
***
3,386 posts
Stilivan wrote:
It seems people are quicker to complain about sucky people rather than help them. I want to hear a story of a sucky person being mentored by someone and they become something great from it. Not this. The point of the Duty Finder is to help people who are having trouble finding groups, find groups, and also speed up the process. Sure, you have your jerkifers out there, and refuse to adapt or listen, but sometimes it takes a little bit of extra effort to get someone down the right path.


That's a side effect of having disposable party members like this. Overall the positives of having a system like the duty finder in place outweigh this and a few other negatives, but it's definitely still a thing.

For my own DF groups this weekend, I did pretty well with people. Had one sub-par tank, but the lancer, healer, and I were able to deal with it (I ended up tanking a lot of extra things as a pugilist). Wasn't a big deal.. just kind of got the impression that the tank wasn't entirely paying attention to what was going on sometimes.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#35 Jul 07 2013 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
424 posts
So far I have tried to help out people as much as possible. I haven't been anything other than a tank in the instances, and I consider myself somewhat capable, so I don't know what it's like to run with one that's terrible. I have come across bad healers and bad DPS though, trying like **** to pull aggro off of me for some reason. The main thing I always try to get across is try to target what I'm targeting. With healers I would stress not to waste time casting stone, because the damage you are doing in the end is usually meaningless imo. That is not always the case, but I will give an example of a bad healer. I was running whatever the last instance is, the lvl 32 one, and we wiped at the first boss. My MRD has at 1400 hp going into that fight, and the healer would let me get down to 400-500 hp before he would even start casting any heals, and instead would spend his time casting stone. Then he would struggle like crazy trying to get me back up. We wiped pretty hard. How do you even get that far as a healer without knowing how to heal in an instance? I figure somebody would have given him a heads up at some point, like hey, quit casting stone and friggin heal the tank.

Whatever though, most of the other healers I have come across know their role, so it's not a big deal.Smiley: smile
____________________________
MJK wrote:
Is this a test?
It has to be. Otherwise I can't go on.
Draining patience. drain vitality.
this paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old.

[Charlie Towser-The Kraken Club-Ultros[NA]-WAR]
#36 Jul 07 2013 at 7:56 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,330 posts
supermegazeke wrote:
So far I have tried to help out people as much as possible. I haven't been anything other than a tank in the instances, and I consider myself somewhat capable, so I don't know what it's like to run with one that's terrible. I have come across bad healers and bad DPS though, trying like **** to pull aggro off of me for some reason. The main thing I always try to get across is try to target what I'm targeting. With healers I would stress not to waste time casting stone, because the damage you are doing in the end is usually meaningless imo. That is not always the case, but I will give an example of a bad healer. I was running whatever the last instance is, the lvl 32 one, and we wiped at the first boss. My MRD has at 1400 hp going into that fight, and the healer would let me get down to 400-500 hp before he would even start casting any heals, and instead would spend his time casting stone. Then he would struggle like crazy trying to get me back up. We wiped pretty hard. How do you even get that far as a healer without knowing how to heal in an instance? I figure somebody would have given him a heads up at some point, like hey, quit casting stone and friggin heal the tank.

Whatever though, most of the other healers I have come across know their role, so it's not a big deal.Smiley: smile


It happens when the DPS has to pick up the slack of the healer. (THM Cures are actually pretty strong.) It's also possible that the healer was used to GLA tanks -- the GLA tank I group with claims he has more defensive options than MRD.
#37 Jul 07 2013 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
424 posts
Ravashack wrote:
supermegazeke wrote:
So far I have tried to help out people as much as possible. I haven't been anything other than a tank in the instances, and I consider myself somewhat capable, so I don't know what it's like to run with one that's terrible. I have come across bad healers and bad DPS though, trying like **** to pull aggro off of me for some reason. The main thing I always try to get across is try to target what I'm targeting. With healers I would stress not to waste time casting stone, because the damage you are doing in the end is usually meaningless imo. That is not always the case, but I will give an example of a bad healer. I was running whatever the last instance is, the lvl 32 one, and we wiped at the first boss. My MRD has at 1400 hp going into that fight, and the healer would let me get down to 400-500 hp before he would even start casting any heals, and instead would spend his time casting stone. Then he would struggle like crazy trying to get me back up. We wiped pretty hard. How do you even get that far as a healer without knowing how to heal in an instance? I figure somebody would have given him a heads up at some point, like hey, quit casting stone and friggin heal the tank.

Whatever though, most of the other healers I have come across know their role, so it's not a big deal.Smiley: smile


It happens when the DPS has to pick up the slack of the healer. (THM Cures are actually pretty strong.) It's also possible that the healer was used to GLA tanks -- the GLA tank I group with claims he has more defensive options than MRD.


I have played both, and they both have good defensive abilities. I like the MRD skill bloodbath better than anything the GLA has, and I like overpower better than flash. With a GLA, running with a THM that only spams Fire 2 or whatever its called that is their AoE, I couldn't keep aggro with only flash. With a MRD, I could just spam overpower if they are going to spam AoE, and never lose aggro. IDK, they are probably both good, but I fail to see what the difference in healing them would be. If the tank starts to get hit, heal them, don't just sit there and stone mobs. There is no excuse for that, no matter which class in tanking. Smiley: smile
____________________________
MJK wrote:
Is this a test?
It has to be. Otherwise I can't go on.
Draining patience. drain vitality.
this paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old.

[Charlie Towser-The Kraken Club-Ultros[NA]-WAR]
#38 Jul 07 2013 at 8:41 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,330 posts
Oh, I'm definitely not saying the healer was good -- that we agree on. Smiley: lol Just providing rationale for the action.
#39 Jul 07 2013 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,337 posts
ZiGG wrote:
I have a lot of experience with bad tanks as a {long time} WHM in ffxi, I realise hate seems to be a lot more polarised in ffxiv but I would totally just let everyone die and try to convince them that it was the tanks fault.


I'm not surprised you had problems with tanks in FFXI. The way CE and VE works (even post adjustments) it's just not designed well at all for tanks to....actually tank. It never has been. The only tanks with decent method of keeping hate end up requiring a fair amount of party support and at that point why bother with that when another plate-esque damage dealer gets hit only slightly harder but holds hate and kills faster? (Note, I'm obviously tanking about old school EXP groups but this does apply to pretty much all pre-Adoulin endgame).

As long as FFXIV doesn't fall into that trap (hate doesn't seem to decay on damage taken or at all from what testing was done in 1.0 back in the day) it should be fine. I've noticed that unless a FATE NM's half-dead it doesn't usually take too much to pull hate and secure it on GLD (I really love the look of Mantra Paladin...) as long as you read the tooltips and apply what you read to tanking.
#40 Jul 07 2013 at 9:08 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
65 posts
My biggest Duty Finder gripe is mostly with communication. The runs that no one talks are fine when everyone has done the instance before and knows what they're doing, but a lot of the time that isn't the case. I started asking if it was anyone's first time at the beginning of every run I did, and i thought it worked out well most times. I guess that annoys some people though -- a lot of people seemed to think I was wasting their time by asking.
#41 Jul 07 2013 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
424 posts
CrazyLegzMcGee wrote:
My biggest Duty Finder gripe is mostly with communication. The runs that no one talks are fine when everyone has done the instance before and knows what they're doing, but a lot of the time that isn't the case. I started asking if it was anyone's first time at the beginning of every run I did, and i thought it worked out well most times. I guess that annoys some people though -- a lot of people seemed to think I was wasting their time by asking.


I did that a lot too. I usually ask right before the main boss, does everybody know what the deal is here. I could care less about wasting time, it takes only a minute or less to explain the mechanics, and less time is wasted if we do not wipe our first run. One thing that bug me is when archers get impatient and start pulling groups before I can get set up. It serves no purpose, and I see them doing it all the time. Sometimes I just need to chill for a second, because as a MRD, you drain your TP pretty quick in the course of like 5-6 straight pulls.
____________________________
MJK wrote:
Is this a test?
It has to be. Otherwise I can't go on.
Draining patience. drain vitality.
this paranoid, paralyzed vampire act's a little old.

[Charlie Towser-The Kraken Club-Ultros[NA]-WAR]
#42 Jul 07 2013 at 10:05 PM Rating: Excellent
*
106 posts
I actually have a success story. >.>

Running Sastasha as CNJ, had a good group: MRD, PGL, THM. Only experienced one was the Thaumaturge. Five minutes in and the THM disconnects. As some of you may know, it was a bug where sometimes the disconnected people wouldn't be kicked, and there was no kick option.

So me and the two physical DD's managed to learn the dungeon, and finish it in time, only wiping once on the last boss. Not bragging or anything; I'm just saying that there are good random groups to be had.
#43 Jul 07 2013 at 10:53 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
153 posts
You do realize guildhest are designed for people to learn how to play properly right. Not everyone catches on so quickly.
____________________________
AIM: offthachain
Playonline: Onineko
Sever: Carbuncle
#44 Jul 08 2013 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
377 posts
Other than one run in the level 23 (I can't remember the name) dungen where I had 2 THM DPSers who insisted on pulling as well as attacking the mobs that I wasn't focusing on which makes tanking a pain with the d-pad even with filters in place... All of my 12 runs this weekend went well. Even my last run went well and that one was in the Manor and I had a CNJ that wasn't a very good healer who constantly blew all his MP in every fight.
____________________________
What? Did you expect something witty?

The Kraken Club - FC on Ultros
Arylin Moonsong - Ultros
Mimiroo Underhill - Ultros
#45 Jul 08 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
725 posts
Hankshmi wrote:
I actually have a success story. >.>

Running Sastasha as CNJ, had a good group: MRD, PGL, THM. Only experienced one was the Thaumaturge. Five minutes in and the THM disconnects. As some of you may know, it was a bug where sometimes the disconnected people wouldn't be kicked, and there was no kick option.

So me and the two physical DD's managed to learn the dungeon, and finish it in time, only wiping once on the last boss. Not bragging or anything; I'm just saying that there are good random groups to be had.


Hi, you can't kick, but you can abandon. 4 of us got stuck in the 'circle' at the beginning (before the duty commences notice), and we had to go into our duty finder and click the abandon option. Sad after waiting 5 minutes to get in.

Oh and congrats on your success. Did it change the exp you got at the end?
____________________________
http://www.zam.com/Im/Image/242033

Name: Ghost Orchid - LEVEL 50 Bard, BLM, WHM, SMN Craft Level 7 Lucis, 6 4-star crafts: CUL, MIN, Wvr, Bsm, Gsm, Arm, Lth, Crp (Fishing and Alc at level 50)
World: Ultros
#46 Jul 09 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
20 posts
I'm curious, is there an option to limit the duty finder to form parties on your current server only? I think this would be great.
#47 Jul 09 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
655 posts
boredenough wrote:
I'm curious, is there an option to limit the duty finder to form parties on your current server only? I think this would be great.


nope. and I just love teh DF im amazed at how well it works and how easy it is to get a group <3 ty SE
#48 Jul 09 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
728 posts
Stilivan wrote:
It seems people are quicker to complain about sucky people rather than help them. I want to hear a story of a sucky person being mentored by someone and they become something great from it. Not this. The point of the Duty Finder is to help people who are having trouble finding groups, find groups, and also speed up the process. Sure, you have your jerkifers out there, and refuse to adapt or listen, but sometimes it takes a little bit of extra effort to get someone down the right path.


I've done that several times, especially in non DF groups and a couple times in the DF. The first time I told a DF tank that Flash was his friend he told me to ******* his presumably miniscule member. It may be good to try and teach people about their class/the game in general, but it isn't my job to do so every single time I join a group. I've got no problem telling someone how to do a fight or how to tweak their rotation for maximum output, but it gets old telling people to simply read the tooltip provided to them by the developers that tells them how to use their abilities and play their class.

I'm sure this will change after launch though, when all of the kiddies have gone back to LoL or WoW. Maybe my luck will be better this week and I won't be unlucky enough to be put with uncaring tanks every queue. Most everyone else has had relatively good experiences with the system so maybe I'm just unlucky. After 15+ runs like that I would have to be...
____________________________
FFXI: DamienSlvrblade Race: Elvaan Nation: San d'Oria Server: Sylph 2002-2007, Phoenix 2012
PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

FFXIV: Damien Scott Race: Duskwight Elezen GC: Limsa Lominsa Server: Ultros
DoW GLA50 ACN50 PUG50 MAR 50 Rest30+
DoH/DoL All 40+
#49 Jul 09 2013 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
*
139 posts
DamienSScott wrote:
Stilivan wrote:
It seems people are quicker to complain about sucky people rather than help them. I want to hear a story of a sucky person being mentored by someone and they become something great from it. Not this. The point of the Duty Finder is to help people who are having trouble finding groups, find groups, and also speed up the process. Sure, you have your jerkifers out there, and refuse to adapt or listen, but sometimes it takes a little bit of extra effort to get someone down the right path.


I've done that several times, especially in non DF groups and a couple times in the DF. The first time I told a DF tank that Flash was his friend he told me to ******* his presumably miniscule member. It may be good to try and teach people about their class/the game in general, but it isn't my job to do so every single time I join a group. I've got no problem telling someone how to do a fight or how to tweak their rotation for maximum output, but it gets old telling people to simply read the tooltip provided to them by the developers that tells them how to use their abilities and play their class.

I'm sure this will change after launch though, when all of the kiddies have gone back to LoL or WoW. Maybe my luck will be better this week and I won't be unlucky enough to be put with uncaring tanks every queue. Most everyone else has had relatively good experiences with the system so maybe I'm just unlucky. After 15+ runs like that I would have to be...


That's kind of how I do a lot of my learning. I research what I can online and apply it as best I can, but I am by no means a hardcore gamer. When someone advises I usually take something from it. Though I do like the easing you into dungeons they have for the first couple. I've got the healing and obviously dd isn't to bad. For this game I'm gonna start a tank so I can finish my "holy trinity" experience.
#50 Jul 10 2013 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
Sage
****
8,775 posts
DamienSScott wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Where did THAT come from?


I suppose I could have worded that differently, but what I was trying to get at is that the game is so catered to solo play that some players get to 20+ and still don't know/don't care to know how to use their class as it was intended in party play. If this weekend was any indication there are going to be a lot of players that are going to get to max level and then be completely blindsided by the proposed "hard" content.


They could probably do more to make the training Guildhest's a bit more prominent, maybe even mandatory, once people hit 10. The basics of partying kinda thing.

Having said that, I ran a number of instances on my MRD this weekend without a hitch. I asked, each time "Anything in this fight I need to worry about?" and if there was, they told me. After awhile I started asking "So everyone know how to do this fight?" and if they did, great. And if not, I told them what to look out for. Did this in Satasha and Copperbell on the final bosses, and I'm happy to say I never had to deal with more than one add in Satasha and nothing out of the ordinary in Copperbell.

Stupid people will always exist, but no amount of changes to the duty finder will fix that. Unless they add a "Use Shovel On Head" function.
____________________________
Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#51 Jul 10 2013 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,755 posts
They've already stated they're going to be making the Guildhests a bit more prominent as far as introducing them to the player. Hopefully it will mean involving them in the main story briefly to introduce the concept to players. It would be a nice addition for those unfamiliar to the game and not being introduced by a friend.
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 81 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (81)