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THM WoesFollow

#1 Jul 07 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I have been playing since alpha test and have tried many of the classes. I'm having a blast with the game. My 50 GLA has a cool new skill set that's fun and engaging. However, does anyone else feel like THM is boring? I find myself every battle going "Fire, fire,fire,fire, transpose, blizzard, blizzard. Transpose. Fire, Fire, Fire, mob dead." Sleep is pretty cool and I've noticed you can sort of train the mob around sleeping him, attacking, sleeping without ever getting hit. But there isn't a lot of variance even at level 20.

Maybe I'm biased from the days of XI where BLM was a really interesting class and had an enormous amount of diverse spells that were not only cool but fun to watch. As much as I'm loving this game...I'm just not feeling the THM class as it is now.
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#2 Jul 07 2013 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
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While it can be tedious I think it still has more variety than some of the other classes so I can't complain too much. If I get bored doing fire blizzard rotation i use thunder more often. I also find that now that I focus more on protecting the healer, by keeping adds slept, it makes for a more interesting experience.



Edited, Jul 7th 2013 7:28pm by PyrielDD
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#3 Jul 07 2013 at 6:22 PM Rating: Default
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Ditto OP.

The spell list was pathetic. I knew I would go crazy casting Fire and Blizzard so I will not be rolling thaum or playing it period.

Also, the umbral ice and astral fire buffs are gimmicky.

And yes I am in beta and tried my 29 thaum.

Edited, Jul 7th 2013 8:22pm by Imaboomer
#4 Jul 07 2013 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
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I also found thm a bit boring for solo play, but the crowd control aspect keeps it interesting in dungeons. Overall though, I'm not as excited about thm as I am about other classes. I'm really looking forward to arcanist!
#5 Jul 07 2013 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm pretty sure I sort of broke the last level 30 Guildhest with Sleep.

It's the one with lots of wolves that spawn and turn into blue flames when they die. So what did I do? Put every single one of them to sleep while the main target was getting wailed on.

We got so many after a while (I think at least 15?) that we weren't able to kill them off fast enough before we died to them, but not before taking down the main target. So no reward activation just yet -- we had to keep killing the wolves until more spawned. Then finally, after 2 more sets of 3 spawned and died, we got credit for the guildhest. Was a really bizarre sleep experience.

#6 Jul 07 2013 at 9:55 PM Rating: Excellent
I've found it to pick up in dungeons and party play. You crowd control with sleep and you also sweep trash mobs with AOE's like fire 2 and Bliz 2. Case in point: the first boss of copper bell.

Thundercloud is based on the thunder DPS, that's an added element to your rotation. I find when Thundercloud procs and your target is nearly dead, the best thing to do is swap out to the next mob with tab; get the free thunder II or III off, shift& tab back to your original target and scathe to land a killing blow on a mob. This will ensure your tanks target is dead, the new target has your thunder debuff and you are all set to proc again. So far the best tanks I've had PUGs with mark their kill order as the battle begins so you know which mob is next; thus facilitating the dark arts Smiley: laugh. So, there is some depth and technique; I can see a foundation for them to develop on.

I am interested to see how black mage's abilities, ancient magic, and 3 or more stacks of umbral and astral buffs will complicate things. It's obvious that more complex stuff comes with more levels.

I can only really compare my experiences here to BLM in ffxi, and Shadow Priest in WoW.

In ffxi, before WoTG, while grinding, you really just rotated your 3 highest level spells on a mob; stunning when you could and draining/aspir when you needed to. You could try and magic burst, but, no one really WSchained in regular grinding, so you wouldn't get the chance. It believe it was looked upon as counter productive to maxing damage. People randomly shot off weapon skills when they broke the 100 tp cap and a higher level WS didn't always mean more damage (thus it really didn't facilitate WSC and MB). One would see it more so in merit parties, but I believe it was mostly to produce a LIGHT or DARK WSC which did tons of damage on their own; unfortunately you really didn't have any options as to dark and light spells... unless you wanted to MB dia or drain. The point is also moot as most BLM Solo'd on duo'd on puddings for merit points. MB ancient magic and AM2 never happened ; ;. As compared to FFXIV, however, I don't think it's any less fulfilling. I do like one thing about ffxiv as compared to ffxi: there is more going on than 6 guys beating up one monster on some random corner of the globe. This is aside from endgame content like SKY / SEA / Dynamis / Salvage ect [and even so, you aren't fighting Kirin errday anyhows].

As a Shadow Priest, during the ICC days, your rotation was fairly simple: be in shadow form, debuffs, mindblast, mind flay, PWK, and shadow fiend when oom, and repeat. Or at least some variant of the that. You very rarely used fear in party play and dungeon grinding as you could ***** yourself over with adds.

It become much more complex in PVP however. You had to use all your abilities depending on what you faced. From mass dispels (there was no greater joy than popping a paladin bubble to me), manaburns, to interrupts and fear, to fading to cancel snares. I found it very fulfilling cause of the depth there.

That being said I don't find THM here on FFXIV in terms of leveling, questing, and group play to be any less fulfilling as compared to WoW. I can say this though: I am excited about some real ffxiv pvp... FFXI was so lacking there.

TL;DR:

THM has some depth in higher levels. BLM should obviously expand on things. It's just as interesting to me as ffxi and WoW counterparts at similar levels.

*Edit:

Just to be clear I don't mean to say that ffxiv is like the games i'm comparing it to, or that it should be like them or shouldn't be like them. I'm just offering my opinions as to if I found THM play, with the current ffxiv mechanics, to be fulfilling and enjoyable as I did with the other titles.

Edited, Jul 8th 2013 12:03am by pulazka
#7 Jul 07 2013 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
PyrielDD wrote:
While it can be tedious I think it still has more variety than some of the other classes so I can't complain too much. If I get bored doing fire blizzard rotation i use thunder more often. I also find that now that I focus more on protecting the healer, by keeping adds slept, it makes for a more interesting experience.



Edited, Jul 7th 2013 7:28pm by PyrielDD


I believe that's why Thunder is a 12 sec DoT compared to some other classes' DoTs that I've seen. I really think there should be at least 1 or 2 more spells into the damage rotation/priority system. As of right now it feels like (equips Flame Shield +2) Arcane Mage from WoW. While keeping up your DoT: Burn Phase, Conserve phase, Burn phase, Conserve phase, over and over again until the mob dies. Sure different fight mechanics call for different spells but when it comes time to be in turret mode, it's quite boring :/
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#8 Jul 07 2013 at 10:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I got to Tcloud just at the end of the last beta and decided to do some testing. I hit Vesper for the armor merchants and hit the tunnel with all the bogies to see how many thunders I could apply to get a good Tcloud return. It's not high enough. I had 4 bogies with one or two Thunder DoTs on them (1 and 2) and was still hard pressed to get a Tcloud proc in a way that was meaningful. 5% is an awfully fickle number, especially when you're dealing with fewer than 3 active mobs at a time typically, even with Thunder III you'd only have ~2 DoTs on the target at any time. Thundercloud just doesn't proc enough, perhaps a bit more because it still triggers the global cooldown. If it didn't then I can see it staying low, but you're blowing a fire cast for the same damage as a crit fire cast (relatively) without the payoff. Perhaps down the road with the Fire proc (free, instant, Fire III) it becomes difficult to manage your GC with Tcloud and Firestarter procs. From a lv29 perspective, Tcloud is just a little bit wanting.
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#9 Jul 08 2013 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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I'm enjoying the class...my main gripe has been a lack of healers doing content. So for dungeons, I've had to grab whoever was sitting around waiting for a party and main heal with Cure/Protect. I still can't say if I actually enjoy THM in a group setting because of this Smiley: glare
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#10 Jul 08 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Default
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Atkascha wrote:
I'm enjoying the class...my main gripe has been a lack of healers doing content. So for dungeons, I've had to grab whoever was sitting around waiting for a party and main heal with Cure/Protect. I still can't say if I actually enjoy THM in a group setting because of this Smiley: glare


I play a CNJ the whole time so I got instant queues, how long did DPS have to wait?
#11 Jul 08 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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^ It was hopeless trying to use Duty Finder as THM, especially by midnight EST just before the beta was over. By the time twenty minutes had passed, I switched to CNJ and found something right away.
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#12 Jul 08 2013 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
Atkascha wrote:
^ It was hopeless trying to use Duty Finder as THM, especially by midnight EST just before the beta was over. By the time twenty minutes had passed, I switched to CNJ and found something right away.


As CNJ I got a party within seconds. SECONDS. As THM, it took 5-15 min. Which isn't bad at all, esp when questing.
#13 Jul 08 2013 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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Dynamis Interloper pulazka wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
^ It was hopeless trying to use Duty Finder as THM, especially by midnight EST just before the beta was over. By the time twenty minutes had passed, I switched to CNJ and found something right away.


As CNJ I got a party within seconds. SECONDS. As THM, it took 5-15 min. Which isn't bad at all, esp when questing.


Same here, I actually usually like when I get a 5 minute delay with the duty finder. It gives me some time to run around and do whatever other type of things I may have been putting off... such as doing the "Dye" quest. I ran and did that one while waiting for a dungeon to start.
#14 Jul 08 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Good
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Dynamis Interloper pulazka wrote:
(Light and Dark SCs)...unless you wanted to MB dia or drain.


I loled quite a bit at this. I'll keep my self amusing snarkiness to myself but I will say that Light and Darkness were combinations of the other Skillchains. While I don't recall which exact elements were under the Light and Darkness SCs, rest assured that four elements could be MBed on each of them.

That being said, I'm looking forward to giving THM a good ol' fashioned college try this week. Looking forward to it after Fire II and Thunder II.
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#15 Jul 09 2013 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
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I didn't realize that it was taking so long for thm to get parties with the df. I had been playing cnj mostly during dungeons because I enjoy healing, and I also was getting groups almost instantly. I'm seriously rethinking thm now.

Edited, Jul 9th 2013 11:16am by schneiderw
#16 Jul 09 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I played caster in XI and wow and most games to be honest. I barely even touched it with the beta so I was wondering do creatures have elemental strengths or weaknesses? I couldn't really notice any at the low levels I played thm at.
#17 Jul 09 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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Ulman wrote:
I played caster in XI and wow and most games to be honest. I barely even touched it with the beta so I was wondering do creatures have elemental strengths or weaknesses? I couldn't really notice any at the low levels I played thm at.


There are no elemental weaknesses in ARR. Yoshi P said that the reason is to allow everyone to participate in all the content.
#18 Jul 09 2013 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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schneiderw wrote:
Ulman wrote:
I played caster in XI and wow and most games to be honest. I barely even touched it with the beta so I was wondering do creatures have elemental strengths or weaknesses? I couldn't really notice any at the low levels I played thm at.


There are no elemental weaknesses in ARR. Yoshi P said that the reason is to allow everyone to participate in all the content.


Fair enough. I guess it kind of has its pros and cons to elemental weakness. I kind of prefer them with the strengths/weaknesses but I guess that does let it tend towards "Play this way or fail" mentality.
#19 Jul 09 2013 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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Mopdaddy wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
I'm enjoying the class...my main gripe has been a lack of healers doing content. So for dungeons, I've had to grab whoever was sitting around waiting for a party and main heal with Cure/Protect. I still can't say if I actually enjoy THM in a group setting because of this Smiley: glare


I play a CNJ the whole time so I got instant queues, how long did DPS have to wait?


10 minutes or more.
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#20 Jul 09 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ulman wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
Ulman wrote:
I played caster in XI and wow and most games to be honest. I barely even touched it with the beta so I was wondering do creatures have elemental strengths or weaknesses? I couldn't really notice any at the low levels I played thm at.


There are no elemental weaknesses in ARR. Yoshi P said that the reason is to allow everyone to participate in all the content.


Fair enough. I guess it kind of has its pros and cons to elemental weakness. I kind of prefer them with the strengths/weaknesses but I guess that does let it tend towards "Play this way or fail" mentality.

Playing BLM in FFXI:
1. Check the mob's elemental strength and weakness.
2. Check the day of the week.
3. Check the weather.
4. Cast Thunder.
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#21 Jul 09 2013 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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svlyons wrote:
Ulman wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
Ulman wrote:
I played caster in XI and wow and most games to be honest. I barely even touched it with the beta so I was wondering do creatures have elemental strengths or weaknesses? I couldn't really notice any at the low levels I played thm at.


There are no elemental weaknesses in ARR. Yoshi P said that the reason is to allow everyone to participate in all the content.


Fair enough. I guess it kind of has its pros and cons to elemental weakness. I kind of prefer them with the strengths/weaknesses but I guess that does let it tend towards "Play this way or fail" mentality.

Playing BLM in FFXI:
1. Check the mob's elemental strength and weakness.
2. Check the day of the week.
3. Check the weather.
4. Cast Thunder.


Yea they did that with a lot of things. I had the worst time with the crafting. Wait for right time of right day while facing the right direction while standing on one foot ******* into the wind for a shot at hq items
#22 Jul 09 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think his point was that no matter what variables they introduced, you basically spammed the highest level spell you had as BLM in XI.
#23 Jul 09 2013 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:

Playing BLM in FFXI:
1. Check the mob's elemental strength and weakness.
2. Check the day of the week.
3. Check the weather.
4. Cast Thunder.


Oh, come on, that's not fair to BLMs at all!

I DID have to cast Blizzard when I was waiting for the recast on Thunder, after all. :p
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#24 Jul 09 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
DamienSScott wrote:
Dynamis Interloper pulazka wrote:
(Light and Dark SCs)...unless you wanted to MB dia or drain.


I loled quite a bit at this. I'll keep my self amusing snarkiness to myself but I will say that Light and Darkness were combinations of the other Skillchains. While I don't recall which exact elements were under the Light and Darkness SCs, rest assured that four elements could be MBed on each of them.

That being said, I'm looking forward to giving THM a good ol' fashioned college try this week. Looking forward to it after Fire II and Thunder II.



I had to as well...that was pretty funny lol I was going to comment on that before now but I decided to keep my snickering off the thread. Light Skillchains were: Light, Fire, Wind, Thunder; Dark Skillchains were: Dark, Earth, Ice, Water. Lv2 Skillchains Fusion (Light+Fire), Fragmentation (Wind+Thunder), Gravitation (Dark+Earth), Distortion (Ice+Water). Didnt need those exact elements to make skillchains but those are the elements that the damage of Skillchains caused was composed of.
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#25 Jul 09 2013 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
I have been playing since alpha test and have tried many of the classes. I'm having a blast with the game. My 50 GLA has a cool new skill set that's fun and engaging. However, does anyone else feel like THM is boring? I find myself every battle going "Fire, fire,fire,fire, transpose, blizzard, blizzard. Transpose. Fire, Fire, Fire, mob dead." Sleep is pretty cool and I've noticed you can sort of train the mob around sleeping him, attacking, sleeping without ever getting hit. But there isn't a lot of variance even at level 20.

Maybe I'm biased from the days of XI where BLM was a really interesting class and had an enormous amount of diverse spells that were not only cool but fun to watch. As much as I'm loving this game...I'm just not feeling the THM class as it is now.


Well if you want to judge something before you get more abilities sure its boring. However at higher levels youre gonna wanna keep up the lightning DoTs as they stack and cast fire sometimes procs a fire 3 insta-cast. It gets more engaging.

And if you didnt play blm in 1.0 you know nothing of boredom, imagine thunder, thundara, thundaga, burst were your only single target attack spells, the blizzard line were enfeebs (and rarely used) and fire were AoEs. cast thunder rotation a lot.
#26 Jul 09 2013 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
DamienSScott wrote:
Dynamis Interloper pulazka wrote:
(Light and Dark SCs)...unless you wanted to MB dia or drain.


I loled quite a bit at this. I'll keep my self amusing snarkiness to myself but I will say that Light and Darkness were combinations of the other Skillchains. While I don't recall which exact elements were under the Light and Darkness SCs, rest assured that four elements could be MBed on each of them.

That being said, I'm looking forward to giving THM a good ol' fashioned college try this week. Looking forward to it after Fire II and Thunder II.


Holy moly, thats right! I totally forgot this. Still though, most BLM ganged up on puddings rather than party if memory serves me correctly.
#27 Jul 09 2013 at 10:09 PM Rating: Good
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Dynamis Interloper pulazka wrote:
Holy moly, thats right! I totally forgot this. Still though, most BLM ganged up on puddings rather than party if memory serves me correctly.

That was more out of necessity. After ToAU came out, mobs were much more resistant to magic damage and merit parties had shifted to TP burns. BLMs were wanted for some end game events, but couldn't get into merit parties to keep their exp buffer up or get merit points.
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