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#1 Jul 08 2013 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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I searched for a thread on where to bonus points for specific class/jobs but haven't ran into anything that I felt was reliable.
I'm a bit curious since p4 will be coming as soon as I know it. Does anyone know what stats I should put into gld/pld and lnc/drg?

In p3 I stacked str since it's going to get wiped anyway. I could really use some advice on there bonus points!
Ty!
#2 Jul 08 2013 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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The effect of the points is very slim, so either go straight main stat or balance it as you play your class.
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#3 Jul 08 2013 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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As a very crude rule of thumb I would stack strength for all the physical classes, int for THM/BLM and mnd for CNJ/WHM. Maybe stack Vit for a tank class/job.

Eventually when we're all max level and "best in slot" gear is more or less determined, there will be spread sheets that provide stuff like the stat weights for effective health or DPS per stat, but by that point the number of allocated stat points will be such a minor factor overall that it probably won't make a huge difference.
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#4 Jul 08 2013 at 6:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks guys!

I noticed when I put a point into vit it only gave me 3 additional HP (or something very miniscule)lol i was wondering if vit does more than Max HP
#5 Jul 08 2013 at 6:58 PM Rating: Good
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godagun wrote:
Thanks guys!

I noticed when I put a point into vit it only gave me 3 additional HP (or something very miniscule)lol i was wondering if vit does more than Max HP


Nope. That's exactly what VIT does, and nothing more.
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#6 Jul 08 2013 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe as a hyur vit as pld isn't that necessary?
#7 Jul 08 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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godagun wrote:
Maybe as a hyur vit as pld isn't that necessary?


My understanding of stats at max level is that +30 of anything isn't particularly noticeable. Without a max level character of my own, I can only assume that by that point you're absolutely rolling in stat values well into the hundreds.

Still I'd rather have my +30 in the thing that will do me the most good. Race isn't really a factor either.
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#8 Jul 08 2013 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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If you change your mind mess up, is there a way to re-allocate points?
#9 Jul 08 2013 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ulman wrote:
If you change your mind mess up, is there a way to re-allocate points?


Not currently.

This is an aspect of the system I have a problem with... the other is the fact it exists at all, but that's neither here nor there.
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#10 Jul 08 2013 at 9:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Strength Increases melee attack power and the percentage of damage mitigated by block and parry.
Dexterity Increases ranged attack power and the chance of blocking or parrying an attack.
Vitality Increases maximum HP.
Intelligence Increases attack magic potency.
Mind Increases healing magic potency.
Piety Increases maximum MP.
Fire Reduces the amount of damage received from fire-aspected attacks.
Ice Reduces the amount of damage received from ice-aspected attacks.
Wind Reduces the amount of damage received from wind-aspected attacks.
Earth Reduces the amount of damage received from earth-aspected attacks.
Lightning Reduces the amount of damage received from lightning-aspected attacks.
Water Reduces the amount of damage received from water-aspected attacks.
Accuracy Increases the accuracy of physical and magical attacks.
Critical Hit Rate Increases the probability that an attack will deal critical damage.
Determination Increases the amount of damage dealt by all attacks and the amount of HP recovered by spells.
Attack Power Increases the amount of damage dealt by physical attacks.
Skill Speed Reduces the recast time of weaponskills.
Attack Magic Potency Increases the amount of damage dealt by spells.
Healing Magic Potency Increases the amount of HP recovered by spells.
Spell Speed Reduces the cast and recast times of spells.
Defense Reduces the amount of damage received from physical attacks.
Parry Increases the probability that an attack will be blocked or parried.
Magic Defense Reduces the amount of damage received from magical attacks.
Slashing Reduces the amount of damage received from slashing attacks.
Piercing Reduces the amount of damage received from piercing attacks.
Blunt Reduces the amount of damage received from blunt attacks.
Morale Reduces the amount of damage received from other players’ attacks.
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#11 Jul 09 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Ulman wrote:
If you change your mind mess up, is there a way to re-allocate points?


Not currently.

This is an aspect of the system I have a problem with... the other is the fact it exists at all, but that's neither here nor there.


That's too bad. Hopefully thats something they address later on. I guess for the time being I'll just keep boosting the main stat for each class.
#12 Jul 09 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've been doing a 3:3:2 ratio for STR/DEX/VIT on my Hellsguard LNC. Points into STR is a no-brainer for a DPS class; DEX is for parry rate, which goes hand in hand with Keen Flurry; VIT bumps up my HP a little.

I might change that to 4:2:2, or even just go 4:2 and leave out VIT entirely.

As far as the DoM classes, I used the NPCs to speed level both to 15 before putting two points into Piety for a slight MP boost and 3 points into either INT or MND depending on which class it was.
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#13 Jul 09 2013 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Ralrra wrote:
I've been doing a 3:3:2 ratio for STR/DEX/VIT on my Hellsguard LNC. Points into STR is a no-brainer for a DPS class; DEX is for parry rate, which goes hand in hand with Keen Flurry; VIT bumps up my HP a little.

I might change that to 4:2:2, or even just go 4:2 and leave out VIT entirely.

As far as the DoM classes, I used the NPCs to speed level both to 15 before putting two points into Piety for a slight MP boost and 3 points into either INT or MND depending on which class it was.


Do you feel the VIT and PIE boosts are significant enough to make much difference? Further up somebody metioned they only noticed a 3 pt bump to hp for the VIT point. I might consider it more if it slightly boosted in battle mp/hp regen depending on which stat you used.
#14 Jul 09 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ulman wrote:
Ralrra wrote:
I've been doing a 3:3:2 ratio for STR/DEX/VIT on my Hellsguard LNC. Points into STR is a no-brainer for a DPS class; DEX is for parry rate, which goes hand in hand with Keen Flurry; VIT bumps up my HP a little.

I might change that to 4:2:2, or even just go 4:2 and leave out VIT entirely.

As far as the DoM classes, I used the NPCs to speed level both to 15 before putting two points into Piety for a slight MP boost and 3 points into either INT or MND depending on which class it was.


Do you feel the VIT and PIE boosts are significant enough to make much difference? Further up somebody metioned they only noticed a 3 pt bump to hp for the VIT point. I might consider it more if it slightly boosted in battle mp/hp regen depending on which stat you used.

I mainly did VIT for the same reason I merited HP on my Galka in XI; somewhere down the road, those few extra HP may mean the difference between being KO'd or not. If my staying upright with that extra 5 or 6 HP means I get to help put down whatever we're fighting that much quicker, I'm OK with that.

As far as PIE goes, I didn't do anything with THM or CNJ beyond using the NPCs to speed level them to 15 to pick up some potential cross-class skills. I don't know how much extra MP (if any) I got from it.
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#15 Jul 09 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just seems silly that for most classes there is really only one pure slot. Allotment was a lot more fun when I thought I needed to be worried about accuracy.
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#16 Jul 10 2013 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I tested out VIT, and it gives 8 HP per point. For WARs with Defiance up, that's good for 10 HP per point. Each point may not amount to much, but it will add up pretty nicely in the long run.
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#17 Jul 10 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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FrozenSherbet wrote:
I tested out VIT, and it gives 8 HP per point. For WARs with Defiance up, that's good for 10 HP per point. Each point may not amount to much, but it will add up pretty nicely in the long run.


Is there perhaps an additional modifer to the HP total?

Other posters here are reporting 3 HP per 1 VIT.

What level did you do your testing at? Also, what class?

I'm thinking your class determines how many HP per VIT you receive.
#18 Jul 10 2013 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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As an armchair point allocator, you can't go wrong with VIT no matter what. You're no good to anyone dead, and more HP helps prevent that.

Otherwise, it's a choice of accuracy, damage, more MP (if it's relevant), or more healing potency (if it's relevant). Personally, I'd look into what stat ends up being more expensive and /or rare, equipment-wise, and augment that. But if money is no object, you'll probably be pressured into a typical glass cannon build unless you're a healer or tank because damage is all anyone cares about.
#19 Jul 10 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
As an armchair point allocator, you can't go wrong with VIT no matter what. You're no good to anyone dead, and more HP helps prevent that.

Otherwise, it's a choice of accuracy, damage, more MP (if it's relevant), or more healing potency (if it's relevant). Personally, I'd look into what stat ends up being more expensive and /or rare, equipment-wise, and augment that. But if money is no object, you'll probably be pressured into a typical glass cannon build unless you're a healer or tank because damage is all anyone cares about.


DEX doesn't do accuracy anymore. It does physical ranged damage (ARC onry) and parry chance.

And actually, were I a tank, I'd probably be more interested in STR or DEX over VIT. Parry chance and block effectiveness seems like it'd be worth more HP than just having slightly more HP in the form of prevented damage.
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#20 Jul 10 2013 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
I tested out VIT, and it gives 8 HP per point. For WARs with Defiance up, that's good for 10 HP per point. Each point may not amount to much, but it will add up pretty nicely in the long run.


Is there perhaps an additional modifer to the HP total?

Other posters here are reporting 3 HP per 1 VIT.

What level did you do your testing at? Also, what class?

I'm thinking your class determines how many HP per VIT you receive.


I did it as a level 20 MRD. It could be the level of the class affecting it. I guess more experimentation is needed.
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#21 Jul 10 2013 at 4:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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FrozenSherbet wrote:
Gnu wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
I tested out VIT, and it gives 8 HP per point. For WARs with Defiance up, that's good for 10 HP per point. Each point may not amount to much, but it will add up pretty nicely in the long run.


Is there perhaps an additional modifer to the HP total?

Other posters here are reporting 3 HP per 1 VIT.

What level did you do your testing at? Also, what class?

I'm thinking your class determines how many HP per VIT you receive.


I did it as a level 20 MRD. It could be the level of the class affecting it. I guess more experimentation is needed.


3 HP @ LV 1-10
8 HP @ LV 11-40
13 HP @ LV 41-50

regardless of class, race, or tail color.

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 6:47pm by Rinsui
#22 Jul 10 2013 at 4:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Gnu wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
I tested out VIT, and it gives 8 HP per point. For WARs with Defiance up, that's good for 10 HP per point. Each point may not amount to much, but it will add up pretty nicely in the long run.


Is there perhaps an additional modifer to the HP total?

Other posters here are reporting 3 HP per 1 VIT.

What level did you do your testing at? Also, what class?

I'm thinking your class determines how many HP per VIT you receive.


I did it as a level 20 MRD. It could be the level of the class affecting it. I guess more experimentation is needed.


3 HP @ LV 1-10
8 HP @ LV 11-40
13 HP @ LV 41-50

regardless of class, race, or tail color.

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 6:47pm by Rinsui


Thanks for the clarification. I think that's what I'm going to end up throwing all my points into with MRD.
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#23 Jul 10 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Gnu wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
I tested out VIT, and it gives 8 HP per point. For WARs with Defiance up, that's good for 10 HP per point. Each point may not amount to much, but it will add up pretty nicely in the long run.


Is there perhaps an additional modifer to the HP total?

Other posters here are reporting 3 HP per 1 VIT.

What level did you do your testing at? Also, what class?

I'm thinking your class determines how many HP per VIT you receive.


I did it as a level 20 MRD. It could be the level of the class affecting it. I guess more experimentation is needed.


3 HP @ LV 1-10
8 HP @ LV 11-40
13 HP @ LV 41-50

regardless of class, race, or tail color.

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 6:47pm by Rinsui


That seems a lot more worthwhile scaled like that.
#24 Jul 10 2013 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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DEX is also fairly important for botanists because some nodes offer an additional gathering attempt upon a successful dexterity check. The extra gathering attempt is a big deal when coupled with certain botanist abilities. For example, that one extra strike can yield an additional 5 crystals when coupled with a ward ability. Given the frequency with which those checks proc, a gatherer could reasonably walk away with an additional 100 crystals in a given gathering session.
#25 Jul 10 2013 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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schneiderw wrote:
DEX is also fairly important for botanists because some nodes offer an additional gathering attempt upon a successful dexterity check. The extra gathering attempt is a big deal when coupled with certain botanist abilities. For example, that one extra strike can yield an additional 5 crystals when coupled with a ward ability. Given the frequency with which those checks proc, a gatherer could reasonably walk away with an additional 100 crystals in a given gathering session.


That's the first I've heard on that. Seems like a handy bonus. Can I assume that applies to other DoL classes as well?
#26 Jul 10 2013 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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schneiderw wrote:
DEX is also fairly important for botanists because some nodes offer an additional gathering attempt upon a successful dexterity check. The extra gathering attempt is a big deal when coupled with certain botanist abilities. For example, that one extra strike can yield an additional 5 crystals when coupled with a ward ability. Given the frequency with which those checks proc, a gatherer could reasonably walk away with an additional 100 crystals in a given gathering session.


That's actually the first I've heard of primary stats affecting gathering classes. It makes sense that they would, but there seems to be very little information out there about it.
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#27 Jul 10 2013 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
DEX is also fairly important for botanists because some nodes offer an additional gathering attempt upon a successful dexterity check. The extra gathering attempt is a big deal when coupled with certain botanist abilities. For example, that one extra strike can yield an additional 5 crystals when coupled with a ward ability. Given the frequency with which those checks proc, a gatherer could reasonably walk away with an additional 100 crystals in a given gathering session.


That's actually the first I've heard of primary stats affecting gathering classes. It makes sense that they would, but there seems to be very little information out there about it.


I've only seen it on btn so far, but I can confirm that the dex check randomly occurs when harvesting trees, but an int check randomly occurs when harvesting from lush vegetation (secondary tool). I'm interested in trying out miner soon so I can get some info on that class as well.
#28 Jul 10 2013 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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Basically, once you get the Tree Whisperer (or other equivalent) at 11 in your DoL class, you can see some of the harvesting nodes with criteria for unlocking a bonus effect. Some are based on STR/DEX/MND/etc, others are based on Gathering or Perception. Bonuses include +X gathering rate, +Y gathering rate for high level items, +Z HQ rate, +A attempts, and +B yield. You can only get some of the bonuses at 11, and unlocking further tiers of the Tree Whisperer (or your DoL equivalent) will unlock the other options.
#29 Jul 10 2013 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
Basically, once you get the Tree Whisperer (or other equivalent) at 11 in your DoL class, you can see some of the harvesting nodes with criteria for unlocking a bonus effect. Some are based on STR/DEX/MND/etc, others are based on Gathering or Perception. Bonuses include +X gathering rate, +Y gathering rate for high level items, +Z HQ rate, +A attempts, and +B yield. You can only get some of the bonuses at 11, and unlocking further tiers of the Tree Whisperer (or your DoL equivalent) will unlock the other options.


Yes, these random events are unlocked via the Tree Whisperer traits, but the only 2 core stats that apply to TW are dex and int. The other 2 are obviously gathering and perception, but they aren't relevant to the point allocation system.
#30 Jul 10 2013 at 11:52 PM Rating: Good
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It may be that the other stats pop up for the other gathering classes, because I know I have seen MND and STR as requirements before.
#31 Jul 11 2013 at 7:51 AM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
It may be that the other stats pop up for the other gathering classes, because I know I have seen MND and STR as requirements before.

Yeah, my friend mentioned STR affecting Mining in this same manner.

Since the thread is about allocating bonus points, this is probably all academic. For example, you don't have to worry about whether you should distribute bonus points as THM to INT for magic damage or DEX for botany since those bonus points only affect you when you're THM.
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#32 Jul 11 2013 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:


3 HP @ LV 1-10
8 HP @ LV 11-40
13 HP @ LV 41-50

regardless of class, race, or tail color.


Thanks!

Now I'm curious of all that stat allocations are scaled like this. And maybe the level ranges are identical for the scaling of other stats. I'm sure it won't be long before someone does in-depth testing.
#33 Jul 11 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
It may be that the other stats pop up for the other gathering classes, because I know I have seen MND and STR as requirements before.

Yeah, my friend mentioned STR affecting Mining in this same manner.

Since the thread is about allocating bonus points, this is probably all academic. For example, you don't have to worry about whether you should distribute bonus points as THM to INT for magic damage or DEX for botany since those bonus points only affect you when you're THM.


I did a bit of mining last night, but not enough to unlock the traits that are the miner equivalent of Tree Whisperer (I forgot the name). I was assuming that the traits would be str and mind, so I'm glad that this has been confirmed. Now I am especially curious about how fishing will work. It would be weird if they used vit and pie, but who knows if fishing will even be remotely similar to mining and botany.
#34 Jul 11 2013 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
It may be that the other stats pop up for the other gathering classes, because I know I have seen MND and STR as requirements before.

Yeah, my friend mentioned STR affecting Mining in this same manner.

Since the thread is about allocating bonus points, this is probably all academic. For example, you don't have to worry about whether you should distribute bonus points as THM to INT for magic damage or DEX for botany since those bonus points only affect you when you're THM.


Yes, I hit lev. 20 miner today and I've had several nodes that had a MND requirement, where I got an extra attempt if I met the threshold. So it must be STR/MND for miner, and DEX/INT for botanist.
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#35 Jul 11 2013 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I haven't paid attention when switching classes, but when playing cnj I've put all my points into mnd. Do those points carry over to other classes that I switch to, or are those points only added to when I'm on my cnj?
#36 Jul 11 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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Hatamaz wrote:
I haven't paid attention when switching classes, but when playing cnj I've put all my points into mnd. Do those points carry over to other classes that I switch to, or are those points only added to when I'm on my cnj?


It's different for each class.
#37 Jul 11 2013 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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schneiderw wrote:
Hatamaz wrote:
I haven't paid attention when switching classes, but when playing cnj I've put all my points into mnd. Do those points carry over to other classes that I switch to, or are those points only added to when I'm on my cnj?


It's different for each class.


Unless I'm missing something, that's kind of disappointing. What's the point of bonus points if they don't stick with you for each class? As a cnj, I don't feel like there is much choice with my bonus points. It's either mnd or pie, and I chose mnd. I just think it would be cool if it carried over when I decided to go with another healing class and have a little boost because I'm already an experienced healer.
#38 Jul 11 2013 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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Hatamaz wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
Hatamaz wrote:
I haven't paid attention when switching classes, but when playing cnj I've put all my points into mnd. Do those points carry over to other classes that I switch to, or are those points only added to when I'm on my cnj?


It's different for each class.


Unless I'm missing something, that's kind of disappointing. What's the point of bonus points if they don't stick with you for each class? As a cnj, I don't feel like there is much choice with my bonus points. It's either mnd or pie, and I chose mnd. I just think it would be cool if it carried over when I decided to go with another healing class and have a little boost because I'm already an experienced healer.


What I meant is that when you switch classes, you get to choose how to allocate points for each class. That way, when you switch from cnj to mrd, you won't have a mrd with all his points in mnd.
#39 Jul 11 2013 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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But do my points carry over from cnj to mrd, along with the points I'll get while lvl'ing mrd?
#40 Jul 11 2013 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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Hatamaz wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
Hatamaz wrote:
I haven't paid attention when switching classes, but when playing cnj I've put all my points into mnd. Do those points carry over to other classes that I switch to, or are those points only added to when I'm on my cnj?


It's different for each class.


Unless I'm missing something, that's kind of disappointing. What's the point of bonus points if they don't stick with you for each class? As a cnj, I don't feel like there is much choice with my bonus points. It's either mnd or pie, and I chose mnd. I just think it would be cool if it carried over when I decided to go with another healing class and have a little boost because I'm already an experienced healer.


So you enjoy CNJ (WHM)... what happens when one day, three years later, you feel like playing LNC (DRG)? How much good would all that extra MND do you then?

Having the classes grow separately was one thing they did right with that system.

Quote:
But do my points carry over from cnj to mrd, along with the points I'll get while lvl'ing mrd?


No.

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 2:57pm by Callinon
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#41 Jul 11 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Hatamaz wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
Hatamaz wrote:
I haven't paid attention when switching classes, but when playing cnj I've put all my points into mnd. Do those points carry over to other classes that I switch to, or are those points only added to when I'm on my cnj?


It's different for each class.


Unless I'm missing something, that's kind of disappointing. What's the point of bonus points if they don't stick with you for each class? As a cnj, I don't feel like there is much choice with my bonus points. It's either mnd or pie, and I chose mnd. I just think it would be cool if it carried over when I decided to go with another healing class and have a little boost because I'm already an experienced healer.


So you enjoy CNJ (WHM)... what happens when one day, three years later, you feel like playing LNC (DRG)? How much good would all that extra MND do you then?

Having the classes grow separately was one thing they did right with that system.

Quote:
But do my points carry over from cnj to mrd, along with the points I'll get while lvl'ing mrd?


No.

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 2:57pm by Callinon


Then I guess that's kind of my point. Why have bonus points if it only makes sense to really put them into one, maybe two stats that don't carry over to any other class when you switch?

And no, the mnd might not be that great when I switch to lnc to lvl it. But it sure would be great when I switch to another healing class.

I feel like, along with the racial choice, the bonus points don't really mean much as far as giving you something to think about when choosing or allocating. It would have been nice, but I'll get over it. I'll just throw those points into mnd for cnj/whm, and let the only real difference from other people be gear.
#42 Jul 11 2013 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Then I guess that's kind of my point. Why have bonus points if it only makes sense to really put them into one, maybe two stats that don't carry over to any other class when you switch?


Couldn't agree more.

Quote:
And no, the mnd might not be that great when I switch to lnc to lvl it. But it sure would be great when I switch to another healing class.


So you're ok with being gimped in every class except WHM and (maybe) SCH?

Quote:
I feel like, along with the racial choice, the bonus points don't really mean much as far as giving you something to think about when choosing or allocating. It would have been nice, but I'll get over it. I'll just throw those points into mnd for cnj/whm, and let the only real difference from other people be gear.


Well you're right that the system is silly. With the stats being as simple as they are, there's basically zero thought that has to go into assigning these bonus points. They may as well be assigned automatically and not bother you.

If SE wants to add individual customization to character classes, I am all for that. But find a way to do it that's meaningful and feels like a real choice. AND give people the ability to fix it if they don't like what they got, or if the game changes at some point in the future (which is kind of a thing in MMOs). This system only presents a false choice, and it's barely noticeable at that.
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#43 Jul 11 2013 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
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232 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
Then I guess that's kind of my point. Why have bonus points if it only makes sense to really put them into one, maybe two stats that don't carry over to any other class when you switch?


Couldn't agree more.

Quote:
And no, the mnd might not be that great when I switch to lnc to lvl it. But it sure would be great when I switch to another healing class.


So you're ok with being gimped in every class except WHM and (maybe) SCH?

Quote:
I feel like, along with the racial choice, the bonus points don't really mean much as far as giving you something to think about when choosing or allocating. It would have been nice, but I'll get over it. I'll just throw those points into mnd for cnj/whm, and let the only real difference from other people be gear.


Well you're right that the system is silly. With the stats being as simple as they are, there's basically zero thought that has to go into assigning these bonus points. They may as well be assigned automatically and not bother you.

If SE wants to add individual customization to character classes, I am all for that. But find a way to do it that's meaningful and feels like a real choice. AND give people the ability to fix it if they don't like what they got, or if the game changes at some point in the future (which is kind of a thing in MMOs). This system only presents a false choice, and it's barely noticeable at that.


The zero thought thing may be true for some of the classes but not all of them. Take ARC for instance. Would it be better to raise DEX and increase your damage early on, or would it be better to increase PIE for longer lasting songs as BRD? Similarly, tanks can decide whether they want more HP or higher damage. I think you'll start seeing more options as more jobs get released.
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Don Fletcher (Ultros)
#44 Jul 11 2013 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
Then I guess that's kind of my point. Why have bonus points if it only makes sense to really put them into one, maybe two stats that don't carry over to any other class when you switch?


Couldn't agree more.

Quote:
And no, the mnd might not be that great when I switch to lnc to lvl it. But it sure would be great when I switch to another healing class.


So you're ok with being gimped in every class except WHM and (maybe) SCH?

Quote:
I feel like, along with the racial choice, the bonus points don't really mean much as far as giving you something to think about when choosing or allocating. It would have been nice, but I'll get over it. I'll just throw those points into mnd for cnj/whm, and let the only real difference from other people be gear.


Well you're right that the system is silly. With the stats being as simple as they are, there's basically zero thought that has to go into assigning these bonus points. They may as well be assigned automatically and not bother you.

If SE wants to add individual customization to character classes, I am all for that. But find a way to do it that's meaningful and feels like a real choice. AND give people the ability to fix it if they don't like what they got, or if the game changes at some point in the future (which is kind of a thing in MMOs). This system only presents a false choice, and it's barely noticeable at that.


The zero thought thing may be true for some of the classes but not all of them. Take ARC for instance. Would it be better to raise DEX and increase your damage early on, or would it be better to increase PIE for longer lasting songs as BRD? Similarly, tanks can decide whether they want more HP or higher damage. I think you'll start seeing more options as more jobs get released.


I'd still rather have the option to alter ALL the stats (stuff like crit, acc, determination, resistances, etc) as opposed to just the core stats, and also allow a reset that's free once a week/month and then costs increasing amounts of money. It would allow people to add a little variety to their class based on what they are doing... going to fight a super evasive mob? Throw on some extra acc points. Fighting a primal that does KILLER elemental damage that can 1-shot you? Throw on some resistance points. It would allow for much more customization and not leave most classes in this cookie cutter build position.
____________________________
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The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
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#45 Jul 11 2013 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
*
232 posts
BartelX wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
Then I guess that's kind of my point. Why have bonus points if it only makes sense to really put them into one, maybe two stats that don't carry over to any other class when you switch?


Couldn't agree more.

Quote:
And no, the mnd might not be that great when I switch to lnc to lvl it. But it sure would be great when I switch to another healing class.


So you're ok with being gimped in every class except WHM and (maybe) SCH?

Quote:
I feel like, along with the racial choice, the bonus points don't really mean much as far as giving you something to think about when choosing or allocating. It would have been nice, but I'll get over it. I'll just throw those points into mnd for cnj/whm, and let the only real difference from other people be gear.


Well you're right that the system is silly. With the stats being as simple as they are, there's basically zero thought that has to go into assigning these bonus points. They may as well be assigned automatically and not bother you.

If SE wants to add individual customization to character classes, I am all for that. But find a way to do it that's meaningful and feels like a real choice. AND give people the ability to fix it if they don't like what they got, or if the game changes at some point in the future (which is kind of a thing in MMOs). This system only presents a false choice, and it's barely noticeable at that.


The zero thought thing may be true for some of the classes but not all of them. Take ARC for instance. Would it be better to raise DEX and increase your damage early on, or would it be better to increase PIE for longer lasting songs as BRD? Similarly, tanks can decide whether they want more HP or higher damage. I think you'll start seeing more options as more jobs get released.



I'd still rather have the option to alter ALL the stats (stuff like crit, acc, determination, resistances, etc) as opposed to just the core stats, and also allow a reset that's free once a week/month and then costs increasing amounts of money. It would allow people to add a little variety to their class based on what they are doing... going to fight a super evasive mob? Throw on some extra acc points. Fighting a primal that does KILLER elemental damage that can 1-shot you? Throw on some resistance points. It would allow for much more customization and not leave most classes in this cookie cutter build position.


Right now, only two classes are limited to one choice as far as party play goes–LNC and PGL. GLA and MRD can choose between STR, VIT, and to a lesser extent DEX. CNJ has MND and PIE, THM has INT and PIE, and ARC has DEX and PIE. With ACN, you'll likely have a choice between INT, MND, and PIE. For solo play, VIT is an option for every class. So while the game isn't as customizable as you might like, cookie cutter probably isn't the best way to describe it.

I do agree that it would be nice to have more options to play with, but I don't think that will make individual characters all that different. If SE decides they want more original builds, introducing more cross class abilities would be the way to go.
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#46 Jul 12 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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3,178 posts
I was messing around with my 1.0 character stats last night to see what I could figure out about the potency of the 30 bonus points. First I logged onto a lvl 50 Conjurer that had not spent any bonus points - he had 30 bonus stat points in reserve ready to spend.

I tested the effect of Thunder II on about 20 or so level 5 Chigoes. I was, for whatever reason, hitting level 5 Chigoes for anywhere between 38 to 42 points of damage.

Then I dumped all 30 points into INT. This resulted in gaining exactly 30 points of Magic Attack Potency. Magic attack Potency went from 209 > 239.

The next 20 level 5 Chigoes I hit with Thunder II for anywhere between 44 to 48 points of damage.

While this is be no means a comprehensive test, the math I saw would seem to work like this:
At level 50, allocating 30 points to INT changed my average damage from 40 to 46. That is a 15% increase in damage.

Which seems reasonable because 209 > 239 is also roughly a 15% increase.

Granted, this is a larger % increase because INT is not the primary stat for Conjurer. I'm not sure what the lvl 50 Magic attack potency (before bonus stats) would be for a Thaumaturge. But it stand to reason that they would also be gaining a directly corresponding 30 MATK from allocating all 30 bonus points to INT.

In summary, I think that %15 certainly is a significant damage increase. Even if the percentage is 10% or even 5%, it's not meaningless by a long shot.
#47 Jul 12 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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6,898 posts
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Right now, only two classes are limited to one choice as far as party play goes–LNC and PGL. GLA and MRD can choose between STR, VIT, and to a lesser extent DEX. CNJ has MND and PIE, THM has INT and PIE, and ARC has DEX and PIE. With ACN, you'll likely have a choice between INT, MND, and PIE. For solo play, VIT is an option for every class. So while the game isn't as customizable as you might like, cookie cutter probably isn't the best way to describe it.

I do agree that it would be nice to have more options to play with, but I don't think that will make individual characters all that different. If SE decides they want more original builds, introducing more cross class abilities would be the way to go.


I know what you mean, but even a choice of 2 options for most classes doesn't seem all that interesting. I'd just like an open-ended system where you have a lot of options instead of being forced into very few. As a DD, it's a completely pointless system to me, and since there are a fair amount of DD players out there, it is really limiting to a decent chunk of the playerbase. Heck, once jobs are active, most THM are going to stack INT for the damage bonus over PIE (since MP isn't a huge issue and ethers are easily crafted/consumable once per minute). Same for CON, most will probably just cap MND. Tanks are the only ones that really have a choice, and even that is quite limiting. I doubt many tanks will be putting a lot into DEX, since it only effects parry and block rate, whereas STR increases both damage and block mitigation amounts, and VIT increases max HP pretty substantially at higher levels.

Really I just want more options.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#48 Jul 12 2013 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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3,178 posts
I don't think that Glass Cannon builds are not necessarily the best. I can't find the post, now but yesterday someone posted a great line about how Galka BLM in FFXI often outdamaged Tarus, just because they could absorb a big AoE boss attack.

Something about:
Quote:
The Galka BLM could just keep laying out the damage while standing knee deep in dead Tarus.


Like Xioe said above:
Xioe wrote:
As an armchair point allocator, you can't go wrong with VIT no matter what. You're no good to anyone dead, and more HP helps prevent that.


I'm just not sold that allocating all your points in one place is the way to go. Also, adding all 30 bonus point to a Stat that is not your primary stat will give you a higher % increase to that stat. For example, 300+30 is a 10% increase, while 200+30 is a 15% increase.

I think this thread shows that people are not necessarily all agreed on where to spend points, and that people are in-fact at this very moment giving this a good deal of thought, rather than mindless allocating all their points to their primary stat.
#49 Jul 12 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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5,745 posts
Gnu wrote:
I don't think that Glass Cannon builds are not necessarily the best. I can't find the post, now but yesterday someone posted a great line about how Galka BLM in FFXI often outdamaged Tarus, just because they could absorb a big AoE boss attack.

If BLMs were typically in danger of taking such AoE damage every fight, then a Galka BLM would have won out on average damage over the long run. However, not every fight included single target or AoE moves that did sufficiently high damage to one shot BLMs. And some fights would have TP moves that potent, but proper hate management and positioning would mitigate the risks of BLMs getting hit.

Manawall also had the potential to change things quite a bit. When Manawall was up, every 2 points of damage would deduct one point of MP first. That means that Manawall would make a Taru BLM more survivable than a Galka BLM, since a Taru's deeper MP pool would allow that player to absorb more damage than a Galka's deeper HP pool.

Gnu wrote:
Like Xioe said above:
Xioe wrote:
As an armchair point allocator, you can't go wrong with VIT no matter what. You're no good to anyone dead, and more HP helps prevent that.

I think a conclusion like that glosses over the impact of simply killing stuff faster. It's easy to eyeball cases where a player managed to survive with single digit HP. What's harder to gauge is the impact over time of being able to kill mobs faster. Killing mobs faster means you run less risk of your healers running out of MP, or for the fight to turn sour when the mob unexpectedly does multiple consecutive crits followed by a nasty TP move.

You also shouldn't discount the amount of time saved in the long term for even safe fights. Death is something you can recover from. It just costs you time. It's easy to tell when you've lost time due to deaths because a run failed. But it's difficult to gauge over the long term how much more time was spent with successful runs that took longer because the DDs invested in HP over stats that would help their damage.

In general, survivability stats are probably what players are going to go for if they plan to do most of their group play through duty finder or pick up groups, and they don't completely trust random strangers. If you plan to do most group content with a static or end game shell, and you trust the healers, tanks, and other members in general, then DD boosting stats probably make more sense.
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