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Job Tree Conundrum (To nerf or not to nerf)Follow

#1 Jul 09 2013 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Be gentle boys and girls. Let's pretend this is my first time. Smiley: laugh (Technically on ZAM it very well may be.)

I'm by no means claiming to have a grasp on genre/group mechanics like many of you prove to have. But a separate job/class thread made me curious about something.

How long can SE wait to pair jobs to all existing classes before mechanic issues? And by mechanic issues I mean having to reinvent a class to suit a job rather than the other way around. I'm of the mind that a class will need to balance it's job tree.

An example I used in another thread was speculating a (anticipated by some) job tree of Paladin/Dark Knight for Gladiator. Two very black and white jobs united by a class that must (should?) be anchored by it's class. For example, as the two jobs grow in level they will in theory grow farther apart from one another. Particularly as level cap begins to advance with a yin yang pairing like Paladin and DK. It will be the class' job to 'ride the line'.

I very much understand nerfing/repairing is a fact of life within the genre. I suppose my question is, do we need our job pairings sooner rather than later? Is it necessary to create jobs around the existing mechanics of current classes or are you content to see possibly major changes to your favorite class if it offers you the job you want?


edit for attempts at clarity





Edited, Jul 9th 2013 8:02pm by ShindaUsagi
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#2 Jul 09 2013 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Well in the interview thread I posted before (http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=137321957829923502), you can see that Yoshi does sort of give a response on how differing jobs on a class would work, the Q&A was as follows:

Quote:

• The Secrets of Eorzea (SOE)

Will you make the second jobs very different from their class or first job? For example, the Dark Knight is a very aggressive job and since you seem to want it to become the second Gladiator job (This has never been confirmed but since Yoshi-P always uses it as an example, you never know... ), don't you think Gladiator's abilities are in contradiction with his style?

• Naoki Yoshida (NY):

I see what you mean. We created the system, but we do not necessarily need to follow it all the time. For example, let’s say that the Dark Knight is the second Gladiator job (attention, it is still not a confirmation), when you get its job stone at level 30, all acquired Gladiator skills will certainly be modified to better fit the image of the Dark Knight.

It was just to give an example to explain that we are not going to destroy how players consider different classes / jobs. It could be an interesting way to introduce future classes / jobs. We will consider your concerns on this issue, rest assured.
This should make things more interesting, don't you think?


So it should mean that some of the defensive skills of a gladiator would be altered to fit the job (most likely making them more offensively based?)
It's still a bit disappointing that a player would have to level the gladiator, before able to change to a dark knight and to a playstyle more to there liking.. but I'm sure SE has already thought that and should have some ways to counter it... Smiley: dubious
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#3 Jul 09 2013 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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Suijin wrote:
Well in the interview thread I posted before (http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=137321957829923502), you can see that Yoshi does sort of give a response on how differing jobs on a class would work, the Q&A was as follows:

Quote:

• The Secrets of Eorzea (SOE)

Will you make the second jobs very different from their class or first job? For example, the Dark Knight is a very aggressive job and since you seem to want it to become the second Gladiator job (This has never been confirmed but since Yoshi-P always uses it as an example, you never know... ), don't you think Gladiator's abilities are in contradiction with his style?

• Naoki Yoshida (NY):

I see what you mean. We created the system, but we do not necessarily need to follow it all the time. For example, let’s say that the Dark Knight is the second Gladiator job (attention, it is still not a confirmation), when you get its job stone at level 30, all acquired Gladiator skills will certainly be modified to better fit the image of the Dark Knight.

It was just to give an example to explain that we are not going to destroy how players consider different classes / jobs. It could be an interesting way to introduce future classes / jobs. We will consider your concerns on this issue, rest assured.
This should make things more interesting, don't you think?


So it should mean that some of the defensive skills of a gladiator would be altered to fit the job (most likely making them more offensively based?)
It's still a bit disappointing that a player would have to level the gladiator, before able to change to a dark knight and to a playstyle more to there liking.. but I'm sure SE has already thought that and should have some ways to counter it... Smiley: dubious


Well crap!!! How did I miss that?

Bleh, carry on everyone. Smiley: laugh
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Sour Cherry
#4 Jul 09 2013 at 6:06 PM Rating: Good
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" And by mechanic issues I mean having to reinvent a class to suit a job rather than the other way around."
I don't believe Yoshi-P will allow the game to get into a position to where it 'must' do anything. So far I've been lead to believe this game to be the most common sensed/practical game EVER. I honestly feel this game is never going to jip me. So I don't think SE would bound themselves to any kind of "1job 2class" rule. If it works it works, if it doesn't, bend the rules a little.

Nothing in this game so far (and to come imo) is Hard & Annoying, only Hard & Fun. thats what she said
#5 Jul 09 2013 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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well ****, i was speculating but there's the pudding
#6 Jul 10 2013 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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Or they could just go DRK from Lancer and avoid that issue entirely...
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#7 Jul 10 2013 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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Kashius1138 wrote:
Or they could just go DRK from Lancer and avoid that issue entirely...


My point has already been made moot but since we're still playing within my own misinformed reality...


How do you relate a piercing class with a slashing/bludgeoning class? Or am I just being waaaay too D&D?
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Sour Cherry
#8 Jul 10 2013 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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I would tie DRK to Marauder if it were me. That's most likely a much easier transition to make.

My second job for Gladiator would be RDM.
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#9 Jul 10 2013 at 9:07 PM Rating: Decent
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The point of the second job is to give the class another playstyle. Lancer becoming DRK would mean that Lancer can only choose between just 2 DD jobs. Arcanist for exemple can either go more DD with SMN or more healing with SCH. It would add more to the game to have GLD having a DD option with DRK, PUG becaming support healer with Dancer, Marauder given a pet as Beastmaster, etc. Also, DRK with spears is just weird.

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 11:08pm by Jujubah
#10 Jul 10 2013 at 9:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I've put way too much thought into this but, IMO, they should do something like this:

GLD -> PLD or DRK

MRD -> WAR or BST

ARC -> BRD or RNG

PUG -> MNK or PUP

ACN -> SCH or SMN

CNJ -> WHM or GEO

THM -> BLM or TIM or AST (Time Mage or Astrologist)

MSK -> COR or GUN or ENG (Gunner or Engineer)

RON (Ronin) -> NIN or SAM

FEN (Fencer) -> RDM or BLU

ASN (Assassin) -> THF or DNC

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 11:42pm by boredenough

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 11:42pm by boredenough
#11 Jul 10 2013 at 10:55 PM Rating: Good
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That list doesn't seem all that bad. I could enjoy that. SAM plz!
#12 Jul 10 2013 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
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GLD -> PLD or BLU

MRD -> WAR or BST

ARC -> BRD or RNG

PUG -> MNK or PUP

ACN -> SCH or SMN

CNJ -> WHM or GEO

THM -> BLM or DRK

SNP(Sniper) -> COR or GUN(Gunblade)

PAR(Paravir) -> SAM or SWD(Magic great sword use aka Cid Orlandu) or SOL(Like Cloud w/ those iconic greatsword skills)

FEN (Fencer) -> DNC or RDM

ASN (Assassin) -> THF or NIN

I doubt we will get TIM as a job if we get RDM.



Edited, Jul 11th 2013 1:13am by sandpark
#13 Jul 11 2013 at 5:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think PUP should be H2H again. I think they'd be better if puppets were a new type of weapon.

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 7:03am by Adzieboy
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