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Tanking - FlashFollow

#1 Jul 11 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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I just recently started some guildhests and it doesn't seem like I can keep hate on a monster party by just using Flash. I pretty much spam the ability and I still lose hate on the adds in many cases. Are there cross class abilities I should be throwing into my rotation for more solid monster party control?
#2 Jul 11 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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try marking 1 target for everyone to focus on. This way u flash will get hate on the side adds if no one hits them you will keep the hate. If you mark and than people keep attacking there own thing thats there fault. Flash is to really keep hate off the healer and get a starting point and extra hate during the fight
#3 Jul 11 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Flash and Shield Lob, that should be enough until you get provoke.

Shield Lob is a major tanking tool though. (Axe throw if Mrd) Watch the action lines, and when that little line goes for the mage, use sub-targeting to lob that guy back to you.

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 3:31pm by Louiscool
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#4 Jul 11 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
Louiscool wrote:
Flash and Shield Lob, that should be enough until you get provoke.

Shield Lob is a major tanking tool though. (Axe throw if Mrd) Watch the action lines, and when that little line goes for the mage, use sub-targeting to lob that guy back to you.

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 3:31pm by Louiscool


Shield Lob and Tomahawk are my two favorite abilities right now. Both are great for getting hate right from the get go.
#5 Jul 11 2013 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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Also don't forget to use the Fast Blade/ Savage Strike (or Blade, can't remember the full name) combo. That will add tons of hate to the mob that you are attacking. I tend to pull with Shield lob then Flash then do that combo then Flash again, as long as I start fights off that way and then use flash occationally while changing my combos up as needed to regen MP as needed. That has worked quite well for me atleast in all the dungens up to the Manor.

Edit: Also when you get Provoke, save that for when something jumps on your healer...

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 6:25pm by princessary
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#6 Jul 11 2013 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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Also, your abilities will generate almost no hate if you need to repair your weapon. For single mobs you will only need to use Shield Lob and the weapon skill that generates enmity (Savage Blade) when used in a combo. With multiple adds you will need flash, and when your MP starts going below half way it may be good to alternating Savage Blade with Riot Blade to regenerate MP.

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#7 Jul 11 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
Caeylen wrote:
Also, your abilities will generate almost no hate if you need to repair your weapon. For single mobs you will only need to use Shield Lob and the weapon skill that generates enmity (Savage Blade) when used in a combo. With multiple adds you will need flash, and when your MP starts going below half way it may be good to alternating Savage Blade with Riot Blade to regenerate MP.


That's how I have been doing it since I got Flash:

Flash -> Savage Blade -> Riot Blade

Or multiple Flashes if I think it'll help... as long as I remember to Savage Blade -> Riot Blade to get some of that MP back.

I have not had many hate issues yet doing this.

#8 Jul 11 2013 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't use Riot Blade until you're taxed for MP. Fast Blade > Savage Blade gives more enmity per use, and deals more damage. MP also regenerates when you're out of battle, so that Riot Blade use goes to waste.

I usually open with Shield Lob > Flash > Fast Blade > Savage Blade, and that's enough to guarantee myself holding hate on the mob I targeted.

When handling multiple mobs at once, you'll want to apply Flash a second time, but not any more than that. If you have to apply it more than that, either your DPS is hitting the wrong target or you're not killing the mobs fast enough (which means your healer gets hate).

Also, Provoke does not generate enmity. It simply puts you on the top of the hate list, so don't use it to pull. You'll want to save it in case your party members are getting whailed on.

EDIT: I should note that if you're not killing things fast enough, you'll want to Fast Blade > Savage Blade multiple targets to keep hate so your healer doesn't get mauled.

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 10:54pm by HeroMystic
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#9 Jul 14 2013 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:
try marking 1 target for everyone to focus on. This way u flash will get hate on the side adds if no one hits them you will keep the hate. If you mark and than people keep attacking there own thing thats there fault. Flash is to really keep hate off the healer and get a starting point and extra hate during the fight


What silverhope said. The fact that you are simply spamming Flash is why you are loosing hate. It's not designed to keep hate on one target and you'll lose hate on the one that the DD's are pounding. Your party members should be targeting your mob. I would suggest starting with Shield Lob on focused target, then Flash to keep hate off the healer for that initial heal, then do a basic combo, ending with Savage Blade to build hate on your current target and after the first two or three combos, use a Flash in between to keep some hate on the side mobs. Remember, managing hate is not simply the duty of the tank, but a responsibility all party members need to learn and utilize.

Edited, Jul 14th 2013 9:07am by DragonBourne
#10 Jul 14 2013 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
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You will always lose hate if your group sucks and DPS's wrong mobs to start.
#11 Jul 14 2013 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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Mopdaddy wrote:
You will always lose hate if your group sucks and DPS's wrong mobs to start.


The smoothest groups I've had were lead by tanks that marked mobs. My GLD is only level 8 or so and I didn't even unlock MRD. Is there a tutorial about how and why to do this built into the tanking class quests? If not, there should be. It makes such a huge difference.
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#12 Jul 14 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
Mopdaddy wrote:
You will always lose hate if your group sucks and DPS's wrong mobs to start.


The smoothest groups I've had were lead by tanks that marked mobs. My GLD is only level 8 or so and I didn't even unlock MRD. Is there a tutorial about how and why to do this built into the tanking class quests? If not, there should be. It makes such a huge difference.


I agree here. I've started to mark mobs myself. It's kinda difficult with a gamepad because I have to constantly switch hotbars, but the results in battle have been pretty amazing. You don't even need to mark all of them. Just the one you want the DPS to take down first. That way when you switch targets the DPS don't get confused.
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#13 Jul 14 2013 at 10:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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HeroMystic wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Mopdaddy wrote:
You will always lose hate if your group sucks and DPS's wrong mobs to start.


The smoothest groups I've had were lead by tanks that marked mobs. My GLD is only level 8 or so and I didn't even unlock MRD. Is there a tutorial about how and why to do this built into the tanking class quests? If not, there should be. It makes such a huge difference.


I agree here. I've started to mark mobs myself. It's kinda difficult with a gamepad because I have to constantly switch hotbars, but the results in battle have been pretty amazing. You don't even need to mark all of them. Just the one you want the DPS to take down first. That way when you switch targets the DPS don't get confused.


One thing they should do with marked mobs is have the marker change colors when you target that monster. That way marking would be even more foolproof.
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#14 Jul 14 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
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... ok, so I'm a noob with this. How exactly do you mark a mob on a PS3?
#15 Jul 14 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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.... really not a noob to MMO's, just to ARR.
#16 Jul 14 2013 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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You either use a text command or make a macro to replace the text command. If you go to http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/678050-final-fantasy-xiv-online-a-realm-reborn/66598934, they list the various options. I'm pretty sure that's just copy and pasted off another website, but I have no idea what the original source is.
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#17 Jul 14 2013 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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HeroMystic wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Mopdaddy wrote:
You will always lose hate if your group sucks and DPS's wrong mobs to start.


The smoothest groups I've had were lead by tanks that marked mobs. My GLD is only level 8 or so and I didn't even unlock MRD. Is there a tutorial about how and why to do this built into the tanking class quests? If not, there should be. It makes such a huge difference.


I agree here. I've started to mark mobs myself. It's kinda difficult with a gamepad because I have to constantly switch hotbars, but the results in battle have been pretty amazing. You don't even need to mark all of them. Just the one you want the DPS to take down first. That way when you switch targets the DPS don't get confused.


Wouldn't work in most groups I've been in. If I stop to equip a new piece of gear, they are already gone pulling the next mob. Chances are they'd be attacking the mobs while I was trying to mark them. Everyone always GO! GO! GO!, geez
#18 Jul 14 2013 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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Pretty solid advice all round but I wanted to add a couple things. If your first target is about to die go ahead and switch to your next one early when savage blade is up to get an early threat boost. Even if it wakes up the target it doesn't really matter since the first one is about to die.

As you level you can start using flash a bit more liberally. It's good to at least use it often enough to keep the blind debuff up on the mobs. If you're fighting three or so mobs you can spam it 3-4 times during the fight and then just use the Riot Blade combo on the last mob to regain MP.

If you really want to get fancy and your group tends to attack multiple mobs at once you can flash a couple times and then fast blade and auto attack your main target while using savage blade on the other target. This gets even better once you hit 26 and get Rage of Halone. You can cycle through whole packs of mobs, hitting each one with a threat move.

So far I enjoy tanking the most, as it seems to be the most involved role. Well it can be involved if you so choose.
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#19 Jul 14 2013 at 6:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Targeting is tough on PS3 I think...

.. and the marking thing is confusing. I need a tutorial or a better explaination on how to set up a macro for that. I don't understand any of the commands on that link or how to type them to get it to do what I want.

And once it's marked, like how does a dd or anyone else know it's marked? What does it have that separates it from the other mobs?

Edited, Jul 14th 2013 8:12pm by LouMercado
#20 Jul 14 2013 at 6:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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LouMercado wrote:
Targeting is tough on PS3 I think...

.. and the marking thing is confusing. I need a tutorial or a better explaination on how to set up a macro for that. I don't understand any of the commands on that link or how to type them to get it to do what I want.

And once it's marked, like how does a dd or anyone else know it's marked? What does it have that separates it from the other mobs?

Edited, Jul 14th 2013 8:12pm by LouMercado


For a basic example, let's say you're going to be fighting a group of three mobs. You pick the one you want to attack first, and use the command /mk attack1 <t>. This puts a floating blue 1 above the monster's head. You repeat this process with /mk attack2 <t> and /mk attack3 <t>. From there, you go town on the monsters with the DPSes following the attack order.

The only downside is that when all the monsters are packed in together, it's kind of a pain to tell which one is marked which. When you select a certain mob, the only thing that changes is that it's number comes up to the front of the group. In large groups, the numbers kind of start to blend in. I think that having the marker turn a different color when selected would be a great way to fix this problem.

Edit: For macros, you'll have to put each command into their own separate macro. Give it whatever title you want, and put something like /mk attack1 <t> on the first line. If you go about it this way, you might want to have a bar focused purely for marking.


Edited, Jul 14th 2013 8:25pm by FrozenSherbet
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#21 Jul 14 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Default
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as mrd tank my rotation was tomahawk to pull>overpower>overpower>flash and i usually had all the mobs without too much issue unless people weren't focus firing or the thm and cnj are sleep pulling and forcing me to collect mobs off people
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#22 Jul 14 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I use this macro for marking while tanking.

/action "Shield Lob" <t>
/mk Cross <t>

It marks whatever I'm targeting and if it is in range it will use my pulling ability. You can still cycle to another mob and use shield lob without it changing the mark as long as you don't hard target the other mob. You can also replace it with attack1 or whatever you like, I just don't really need any more than the first mob marked. My girlfriend has her Repose macro set up to use the ignore marks, that is pretty awesome.

/action "Repose" <t>
/mk ignore1 <t>

You have to be fully targeting the mob though otherwise you will mark the tank lol.

Also I think they should have the mark appear on the target's HP bar. That would make it even easier to see what you are actually targeting.

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#23 Jul 14 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Dudes, thank you so much... extremely detailed. I appreciate it. My old a$$ takes a while to comprehend, lol. Much thanks again.

Edited, Jul 14th 2013 10:13pm by LouMercado
#24 Jul 14 2013 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Quick question (trolling the thread, and I apologize)...

... to me it seems like GLA is the better tank, but I love Marauder. I don't have a hate issue, it's more a survivability issue right now (both of them I have at level 15). GLA has a huge advantage with the heals, blocks and parries. MAR doesn't do the heals, and I can understand that... it would be really weird if they could heal.. blah. And they should be terrible at blocking for obvious reasons... but does anyone else think their parrying skills should be higher than GLA? And wouldn't MAR be just a little bit more believable as a main tank if we had more moves that gave us health as we attack? ... or at least a bigger percentage of damage done comes back to us as health? I feel like MAR is at a very big disadvantage against GLA. Anyone else or am I off my rocker? lol
#25 Jul 14 2013 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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DamienSScott wrote:
I use this macro for marking while tanking.

/action "Shield Lob" <t>
/mk Cross <t>

It marks whatever I'm targeting and if it is in range it will use my pulling ability. You can still cycle to another mob and use shield lob without it changing the mark as long as you don't hard target the other mob. You can also replace it with attack1 or whatever you like, I just don't really need any more than the first mob marked. My girlfriend has her Repose macro set up to use the ignore marks, that is pretty awesome.

/action "Repose" <t>
/mk ignore1 <t>

You have to be fully targeting the mob though otherwise you will mark the tank lol.

Also I think they should have the mark appear on the target's HP bar. That would make it even easier to see what you are actually targeting.


This would be great. Anything to make marks quicker and easier to figure out would make me incredibly happy.

LouMercado wrote:
Quick question (trolling the thread, and I apologize)...

... to me it seems like GLA is the better tank, but I love Marauder. I don't have a hate issue, it's more a survivability issue right now (both of them I have at level 15). GLA has a huge advantage with the heals, blocks and parries. MAR doesn't do the heals, and I can understand that... it would be really weird if they could heal.. blah. And they should be terrible at blocking for obvious reasons... but does anyone else think their parrying skills should be higher than GLA? And wouldn't MAR be just a little bit more believable as a main tank if we had more moves that gave us health as we attack? ... or at least a bigger percentage of damage done comes back to us as health? I feel like MAR is at a very big disadvantage against GLA. Anyone else or am I off my rocker? lol


In the level 15 dungeons, MRDs tend to be much better tanks. The monsters don't really hit hard enough for GLAs' extra defensive abilities to matter, and overpower is a better enmity generating skill than anything GLA has.

As it appears right now, MRD looks like it will be better at handling groups of weaker mobs, whereas GLA will be better at handling stronger individual monsters. In the end, however, it will always come down to the skill of the player.

Edited, Jul 14th 2013 10:27pm by FrozenSherbet
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#26 Jul 14 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Default
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MRD gets its survivability as a tank from its gear more than gld it seems, DEF matters is the impression i got(my mrd is 34 in beta) in the lower levels i carried some pot/hipots just in case but seldom needed in party. the problem with MRD in party though is if your healer sucks, you're gonna suck no matter how good you are, you do get a a HP boost/heal at 34 though which is meh, the recast needs a little less on it imo but is negligible
#27 Jul 14 2013 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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DamienSScott wrote:
I use this macro for marking while tanking.

/action "Shield Lob" <t>
/mk Cross <t>

It marks whatever I'm targeting and if it is in range it will use my pulling ability. You can still cycle to another mob and use shield lob without it changing the mark as long as you don't hard target the other mob. You can also replace it with attack1 or whatever you like, I just don't really need any more than the first mob marked. My girlfriend has her Repose macro set up to use the ignore marks, that is pretty awesome.


Wow, I honestly did not know this. This was the only reason why I didn't create a macro like this yet.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely be doing this from now on.
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#28 Jul 14 2013 at 11:46 PM Rating: Good
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Keybinds are mostly how I handled the marking in other MMOs (where I could assign the actual marking hotkeys), but here I just opened up Hotbar 10 and placed attack 1 - 5, CC 1 - 3, and the two "DUN TOUCH DIS". Then I re-hid the bar and just used hotkeys to quickly mark things. Achieves the same thing for me, I just had to go an extra step to set the binds.

.........

Just noticed the little blurbs on the chat windower filters. Pretty hilarious on some of them.

FrozenSherbet wrote:
In the level 15 dungeons, MRDs tend to be much better tanks. The monsters don't really hit hard enough for GLAs' extra defensive abilities to matter, and overpower is a better enmity generating skill than anything GLA has.

As it appears right now, MRD looks like it will be better at handling groups of weaker mobs, whereas GLA will be better at handling stronger individual monsters. In the end, however, it will always come down to the skill of the player.


Eh, I disagree.

I've played both classes through the dungeons this weekend as tanks and infinitely prefer Gladiator's AE tanking capabilities over MRD --- PBAoE beats out a conal attack anyday. I ran with my own healer, but if I had any THMs in the group I'd just pull an extra pack (or two) and just have the THM AE everything down. With monster movement that's a **** of a lot harder to do on the Marauder because of their tendency to shift around a bit, but it was still doable.

If MRD's AoE was PBAoE as well it would definitely win (since you'd also contributing to kill speed). But to be honest I'd say outside of kill speed they're about on par.

Personal preference though.

Edited, Jul 15th 2013 1:54am by Viertel
#30 Jul 15 2013 at 4:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll have to disagree with you there Viertel, if only because MRD can sub Flash, but GLD can't sub Overpower.

Give me three OP's on a group of mobs, and they will stick to me through any heal aggro you could conceivably throw out. If we're using CC, then add Flash every few GCD's for extra threat that doesn't break sleep. If we aren't then I hit Bloodbath and leech a crapton of life back using OP. To whit, you could say that OP is....OP. But only in the threat gain sense, as it's pretty standard damage for a 100 TP aoe move.

TBH, having done MRD to 30+ and GLD to the high teens, I think Flash needs a bit of help. Yeah, it's PBAOE and doesn't break CC, but compared to the hate gain on Overpower it's like ******* in an ocean. Unless Circle of Scorn is amazing as an AoE threat tool, then Flash alone isn't going to cut it, even improved Flash.
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