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Should we fear the class/job system?Follow

#1 Jul 20 2013 at 9:41 PM Rating: Good
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Good evening everyone. It has been a long time since I have been able to post on the forum due to deployments and such, and I think for my first thread back, I am looking for everyone's opinion on the current class/job system.

As we have all seen during the beta, the class/job system has remained relatively unchanged since 1.0. Should this be something we should worry about though? After reading thoughts on new jobs, specifically the thread discussing possible DRK job being added to the game, this caused me to be concerned on what could possibly happen to the future of the game.

Before I jump head long into my worries, first let me point out that being fortunate enough to play the beta from the beginning of phase 3 I am extremely impressed with the work Yoshi and his team have done to the game. It really does look gorgeous and is much more user friendly in almost all aspects. But one thing really worries me, especially for 1.0/Legacy players.

The current job system reflects the classes we have leveled. 50 Glad transfers to 50 Paladin once unlocked, 35 Pugilist transfers to 35 Monk and so on.

So the question is: For players that level quickly or players returning from 1.0, what is your added value to new jobs? Don't get me wrong, I can't wait to run around with an awesome great sword or scythe as a DRK or sneak in and kill as a THF or a NIN. But my worry is this: What will make me want to play a new job if when they are released, the classes required to unlock the job are already at 50? What is the fun with already being a maxed DRK or THF as soon as I get the job unlocked?

Sure we still have job quests and job specific gear to obtain, but I would like more to just level and explore and experience the game as I learn the ins and outs of my job. To ensure I am that DRK that people want to DD for them, or that THF that increases the spoils of war. Please let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks!
#2 Jul 20 2013 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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What iv been hearing other people saying is that since there is a level sync you will still be able to do all the low level missions till the high level ones, gives you a chance to really relearn your abilities or learn how to use new abilites. My only gripe with thr job/class, is that i wanna play strait Gladiator till end game, i just really like the idea of a gladiator type class, but i feel like i have to go Paladin or most of the community will think im gimping my self by not "specializing" in tanking by going paladin. So with the class/ job systume it just feels like it kinda makes you have to be that job. I could maybe see an archer not really wanting to go bard?

All that being said i am really excited to just make all my own gear so i can HQ it and meld materia to it, like i wanna try haveing every item im wearing have "+parry" materia in it and "+str," hopefully it would pay off by blocking all the time and for alot of % dmg reduction, im excited to see how it plays out!

Edited, Jul 21st 2013 12:14am by IMFW
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#3 Jul 20 2013 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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You don't start off maxed. Sure you will be level 50, but you also need to do the job quests in order to learn abilities for the job.

We do know that jobs are limited in their ability to cross class, not to mention what they can cross class. For example, we know Arcanist branches to Summoner and Scholar, but it could be likely that Scholar can cross class Conjurer, and Summoner can cross class Thaumaturge, and you certainly wouldn't be maxed out if your respective cross class abilities aren't at their top potential.
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#4 Jul 20 2013 at 10:27 PM Rating: Decent
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i'm alright already being level 50 with all the classes i did in 1.0. Sure i will still have to re-learn how to play everything again, but there are still new jobs to play so we will still get to experience leveling up jobs. Not to mention eventually the caps will be raised so those jobs already at 50 will get some exp action eventually.. Theres a bunch of quests also that will take me all over the place so we will get to explore. And like others have said we are going to have to do job quests again.

I'm more the kind of person who before going out to events and such, likes to gear up a job properly first and learn what it is that i do. So i'm totally ok with this and don't think it hurts.
#5 Jul 20 2013 at 10:38 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So the question is: For players that level quickly or players returning from 1.0, what is your added value to new jobs? Don't get me wrong, I can't wait to run around with an awesome great sword or scythe as a DRK or sneak in and kill as a THF or a NIN. But my worry is this: What will make me want to play a new job if when they are released, the classes required to unlock the job are already at 50? What is the fun with already being a maxed DRK or THF as soon as I get the job unlocked?


As stated before, your new job will not be maxed and dependant upon you to finish through the quest to unlock what is currently 5 abilities unique to that unlocked job.

However, additionally, you have to keep in mind that the playstyle of the new job will likely be quite different than what you had played with the class previously. Yoshida already said that once secondary jobs start coming into the current single-job classes, the classes themselves will receive an adjustment to better accomidate both jobs. Which means not only will you be learning the new role that comes with your Job (in the case of Gladiators switching from Paladins to Dark Knights, needing to learn how to function as a DD rather than a tank. Or from Summoner to Scholar, a DPS to a Healer.) you will also have to learn the extra versatility that comes with the changes to your class.

And new classes are going to come out on top of just new Jobs, so there will be plenty of new mechanics and concepts to explore.

The system is new, and it's understandable to be fearful, however try not to go overboard with positive or negative expectations. Simply roll with the punches as they come and you'll be fine.
#6 Jul 20 2013 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
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You're also banking this on their only ever being new jobs, no classes.
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#7 Jul 21 2013 at 12:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's not really much "ins and outs of a job" to learn. Its 5 extra skills, usually some of them being passive or situational. If you've played the class to 50, I don't think getting 5 new skills in progression via quests necessitates a full leveling experience the learn the job. If jobs were truly very different I get it.
#8 Jul 21 2013 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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I just want to piggy back with couple questions since im new. By reading this post are you saying that when a thaumaturge hits lvl 30 and wants to go blackmage then the blm starts at lvl 30? Are they now considered the same class now? Or can u still play thm an blm as separate classes? If blm is lvl 30 and i level him to 50 does that mean thm goes to 50 as well, or does it not exsist anymore. IF there the same class now if you choose blm then you never can play thm again? I always thought when I first read about this game that once u hit 30 it unlocks this class and the new job(blm) you start is from level from 1. I guess it wont be as confusing once I get to play but I am little confused not knowin exactly what happens. id appreciate it if somebody had some time to explain it to somebody new because the websites don't explain it as well imo

Edited, Jul 21st 2013 9:11am by mdafurball

Edited, Jul 21st 2013 9:12am by mdafurball
#9 Jul 21 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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I think this fear is just wanting jobs to be a separate entity or wishing it was. Jobs are not a separate entity but an extension of your main class. You are not meant to level on jobs, it's a special mode you equip to excel in one role while sacrificing your multi role versatility for endgame activity. Whether you want jobs to be a separate entity or not is ok to want. However the class/job system is not designed this way. They have done that route in FFXI with a jobs only system, far more restrictive in sub capabilities. This is FFXIV.

Let me begin with saying the preceding is not me wanting this to happen. The only way jobs could work as a separate entity and not trivialize classes in ARR. Is if jobs were reset to level one after being unlocked, lost the ability to cross class, and became one trick ponies. Examples:
DRK/ N/A----- No ability or skills that perform anything besides damage.
WAR/ N/A---- No ability or skills that perform anything besides damage.
WHM/ NA---- No ability or skills that perform anything besides heals.
BLM/ N/A---- No ability or skills that perform anything besides nukes.

Because if jobs reset to level one and can still do that stuff. The definition of who is more effective solo or in party becomes blurred thus trivializing the class/job system.

I actually wish SE would split the job and class system up like this to define the difference between jobs and classes more. Imagine FFXI without the ability to subjob. Could a blm heal? No. Could a blm cast stoneskin or utsusemi? No. Could a blm have a fast cast trait? No. Would they be able to solo or overnuke as much without subjobs? No. Could a Sam sub nin, dnc, or whm to solo? No.

That would make jobs adhere to the party mentality. Each job would rely on each other more or face defeat. I look forward to the direction ARR has chosen for better or worse. I'm happy.

My default/sub default sense is ticking on this one...............
#10 Jul 21 2013 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I fear more the people that bought, yes bought, characters that have never played. It was a big issue in FFXI,
Having level 75 people not knowing wtf they were doing, finding out that a LS member left and sold his/her account.

I hope there are systems in place to prevent this from happening. RMT destroyed FFXI.

Since this post got voted down, I'm going to sprinkle some links into it to prove what's going on right now!
Here's just two of the sites I found just now, there are more I'm sure.

http://www.armorybids.com/Final-Fantasy-XIV,category,2465,parent_id,categories
http://www.epicnpc.com/ffxiv-final-fantasy-14-buy-sell-trade/535663-ffxiv-accounts.html

I've given feedback on the SE site to see if the developers respond.


Edited, Jul 21st 2013 12:24pm by Grandmomma
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#11 Jul 21 2013 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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Grandmomma wrote:
I fear more the people that bought, yes bought, characters that have never played. It was a big issue in FFXI,
Having level 75 people not knowing wtf they were doing, finding out that a LS member left and sold his/her account.

I hope there are systems in place to prevent this from happening. RMT destroyed FFXI.


Destroyed? No. Not even close.
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#12 Jul 21 2013 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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mdafurball wrote:
I just want to piggy back with couple questions since im new. By reading this post are you saying that when a thaumaturge hits lvl 30 and wants to go blackmage then the blm starts at lvl 30? Are they now considered the same class now? Or can u still play thm an blm as separate classes? If blm is lvl 30 and i level him to 50 does that mean thm goes to 50 as well, or does it not exsist anymore. IF there the same class now if you choose blm then you never can play thm again? I always thought when I first read about this game that once u hit 30 it unlocks this class and the new job(blm) you start is from level from 1. I guess it wont be as confusing once I get to play but I am little confused not knowin exactly what happens. id appreciate it if somebody had some time to explain it to somebody new because the websites don't explain it as well imo

Edited, Jul 21st 2013 9:11am by mdafurball

Edited, Jul 21st 2013 9:12am by mdafurball


When you change from a class to a job, all you're really doing is changing to a different mode or "stance" for that class. So when you change from THM to BLM, you're essentially still playing as a THM, but you've redefined a few parameters; specifically, you gain 5 job-specific abilities in the place of 5 cross-class abilities, and your other 5 CC abilities are restricted to certain classes. When viewed from this perspective, it makes sense for your job and class to be the same level, because a job is an aspect of a class.
#13 Jul 21 2013 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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LuminusSoul wrote:
As we have all seen during the beta, the class/job system has remained relatively unchanged since 1.0.


Well, not to split hairs, but it's an important distinction.

The class/job system was not in 1.0.

It was implemented in March 2012, with patch 1.21, after Yoshi-P had taken over.
#14 Jul 21 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Think of it this way... jobs are a specialization, or path, or tree, or whatever you want to call it. So when they give a new job from the same initial class (ie, glad > pld or drk), think of it like a different skill tree of the same overarching class. Just because you change skill trees, you don't start the leveling process all over. It's like the tanking tree, and the damage tree. At least, that's how I'm going to be viewing it.
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#15 Jul 21 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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so if It is like a difference "stance/mode" can u go back an forth from chosing thm an blm? Do they always share the same level? I guess im asking like if I unlock blm at lvl 30 do I keep leveling thm to lvl 50 and It also levels the blm to 50, or lvl blm job to 50 and it levels thm to 50 since there the same techincally? Either way?
#16 Jul 21 2013 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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Either way. You can level the thm or the blm, they will both get the same XP and level at the same time. Class is more for solo play (because you can add 10 cross-class skills to really add utility) whereas a job is more specialized for group play in terms of damage dealing, healing, or tanking, or support + whatever (dd brd, etc), with only 5 cross-class abilities, but job abilities made specifically to improve party play.
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#17 Jul 21 2013 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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Grandmomma wrote:
Since this post got voted down, I'm going to sprinkle some links into it to prove what's going on right now!


The problem is you said RMT destroyed FFXI, even though the game is still going fairly strong and continues to be one of the most profitable MMO to ever exist.
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#18 Jul 21 2013 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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mdafurball wrote:
so if It is like a difference "stance/mode" can u go back an forth from chosing thm an blm? Do they always share the same level? I guess im asking like if I unlock blm at lvl 30 do I keep leveling thm to lvl 50 and It also levels the blm to 50, or lvl blm job to 50 and it levels thm to 50 since there the same techincally? Either way?


Just think of it this way: a blm IS a thm, a whm IS a cnj, a drg IS a lnc, etc.
#19 Jul 21 2013 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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Think of it as archer as you class and jobs as "focuses".

Right now there is bard. Put bard on you have all of the archers abilities as well as bard. Then they release musketeer.
Its just another focus for you archer. Then you can decide which direction you want to go depending on the situation.

The job system seems to add more freedom to class.

As to freedom to play what you want.

The poster who wants to gladiator all the way. Just do it try it out. I plan on conjuring to 50.

#20 Jul 21 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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HeroMystic wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
Since this post got voted down, I'm going to sprinkle some links into it to prove what's going on right now!


The problem is you said RMT destroyed FFXI, even though the game is still going fairly strong and continues to be one of the most profitable MMO to ever exist.


Perhaps because my server got dumped, PS2 got dumped and no ps3 ever showed up, that I'm a bitter old lady because of it.
Oh, and 3 ls that I was in ended up going RMT.

I thought WOW was the most successful?
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#21 Jul 21 2013 at 2:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grandmomma wrote:
HeroMystic wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
Since this post got voted down, I'm going to sprinkle some links into it to prove what's going on right now!


The problem is you said RMT destroyed FFXI, even though the game is still going fairly strong and continues to be one of the most profitable MMO to ever exist.


Perhaps because my server got dumped, PS2 got dumped and no ps3 ever showed up, that I'm a bitter old lady because of it.
Oh, and 3 ls that I was in ended up going RMT.

I thought WOW was the most successful?


RMTs exist. But it didnt "destroy FFXI." Every MMO has RMT.

Also, he said ONE of the most profitable MMOs that exist, not THE MOST SUCCESSFUL MMO to exist.

I am sad they dumped PS2, but the game needed to move forward.
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#22 Jul 21 2013 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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[ quote=asuran05]Think of it as archer as you class and jobs as "focuses".

Right now there is bard. Put bard on you have all of the archers abilities as well as bard. Then they release musketeer.
Its just another focus for you archer. Then you can decide which direction you want to go depending on the situation.

The job system seems to add more freedom to class.

As to freedom to play what you want.

The poster who wants to gladiator all the way. Just do it try it out. I plan on conjuring to 50.

[/quote]
So in your opinion do you think that FFXIV's job system has more freedom than in FFXI? I don't know because i haven't experienced FFXIV's job system yet, only FFXI's. Thanks
#23 Jul 21 2013 at 6:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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dare I say, release THF as a CLASS since it seems more of a solo or small group role. Maybe THF could be the lvl15 req for DRK and the 30 req for NIN?
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#24 Jul 21 2013 at 7:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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klooste8 wrote:
dare I say, release THF as a CLASS since it seems more of a solo or small group role. Maybe THF could be the lvl15 req for DRK and the 30 req for NIN?


That is exactly how I think thf should be implemented. I figure that the lore for drk is that something should tempt him off the pld path (i.e. thieving), and thf -> nin just seems like a no brainer unless they make ninja a class and assasin a job.
#25 Jul 21 2013 at 7:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quistar49 wrote:
So in your opinion do you think that FFXIV's job system has more freedom than in FFXI? I don't know because i haven't experienced FFXIV's job system yet, only FFXI's. Thanks

I have only played Phase 3 Beta, so my experience is limited. However, I think FFXIV's job system has the potential to be more flexible than FFXI's job system. With FFXI, the subjob system gave your main job flexibility. However, you could only sub one job at a time. With FFXIV, you can get cross class abilities from more than one job at once. With access to 10 cross class abilities at 50, you could potentially cross class stuff from 10 other classes if the game every expanded to having that many classes.

You could say that the potential likely won't be realized, since you may only find 1 or 2 optimal sets of cross class abilities. But the same could be said for FFXI. i.e. you could have played as WHM/MNK, but that combination wasn't anywhere near as useful as the few optimal sub job choices that you had as WHM.
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#26 Jul 21 2013 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Stilivan wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
HeroMystic wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
Since this post got voted down, I'm going to sprinkle some links into it to prove what's going on right now!


The problem is you said RMT destroyed FFXI, even though the game is still going fairly strong and continues to be one of the most profitable MMO to ever exist.


Perhaps because my server got dumped, PS2 got dumped and no ps3 ever showed up, that I'm a bitter old lady because of it.
Oh, and 3 ls that I was in ended up going RMT.

I thought WOW was the most successful?


RMTs exist. But it didnt "destroy FFXI." Every MMO has RMT.

Also, he said ONE of the most profitable MMOs that exist, not THE MOST SUCCESSFUL MMO to exist.

I am sad they dumped PS2, but the game needed to move forward.


Ok point taken. Olive Branch extended. Cheers!
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