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What A Change a Few Years Can MakeFollow

#1 Jul 23 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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http://dorkutopia.com/the-first-five-review-ffxiv-a-realm-reborn-beta-impressions/

Can any of us even fathom 1.0 turning into a game that is receiving a score of 85%? Granted this is just a preview, however this type of publicity is going to make this game huge.

It's funny how naysayers are few and far between these days. I remember just several months ago, about 50% of XIVs forum population was made up of trolls who just wanted to bash the game.
#2 Jul 23 2013 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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ClydesShadow wrote:
It's funny how naysayers are few and far between these days. I remember just several months ago, about 50% of XIVs forum population was made up of trolls who just wanted to bash the game.

There's still a pretty vocal minority on the beta forums who absolutely hate this game and everything it stands for. Personally, I really like the game; don't feel like it's any worse than anything that's currently on the market.

I think the real test is endgame; that's where you end up keeping the bulk of your subscribers. If SE can make good content and the correct pace, this game will have a very bright future ahead of it.
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#3 Jul 23 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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ClydesShadow wrote:
http://dorkutopia.com/the-first-five-review-ffxiv-a-realm-reborn-beta-impressions/

Can any of us even fathom 1.0 turning into a game that is receiving a score of 85%? Granted this is just a preview, however this type of publicity is going to make this game huge.

It's funny how naysayers are few and far between these days. I remember just several months ago, about 50% of XIVs forum population was made up of trolls who just wanted to bash the game.


The readers of the blog gave it a 95%...

Kind of like looking at Rotten Tomatoes to see if I'll like a movie, I go with the audience numbers... critics are paid to be critical... so 85% is a bit low IMHO.

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#4 Jul 23 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kind of like looking at Rotten Tomatoes to see if I'll like a movie, I go with the audience numbers... critics are paid to be critical... so 85% is a bit low IMHO.


I always ignore the audience numbers. Too often, people will give movies high marks simply because they are fans of whichever franchises they are seeing. A great example is the audience rating for just about any Twilight movie, as opposed to the critical ratings.

That said, I also ignore the early critical ratings. Seems that the most "franchise-friendly" critics usually see the movies right away. The critical scores tend to drop a bit over time as more objective critics file their reviews. With good movies, though, the critical ratings don't move.

Just my two cents.
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#5 Jul 23 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
I ignore both critics and audience numbers. Like people have said, critics are paid to be critical. Audience numbers I ignore because a lot of people just have horrible taste in movies, so those numbers are skewed IMHO. I'm a big believer in try something for yourself before bashing it, otherwise just line up with the rest of the lemmings and jump off a cliff.
#6 Jul 23 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Like people have said, critics are paid to be critical.


That's exactly why I pay attention when critics (by consensus, not individual reviewers) actually give something a good rating.
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#7 Jul 23 2013 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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critics are paid to be critical


You're saying that like it's a bad thing. Critical thinking is an important skill, one that needs to be used MORE often, not less. Having someone who's able to separate themselves from their personal opinion to give a truly objective evaluation of something is SUPER valuable.

Now, it's fair to argue that a lot of so-called critics can't do that. But then the trick becomes finding one who can, or at least one you agree with more often than not.
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#8 Jul 23 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
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TurboTom wrote:
I think the real test is endgame; that's where you end up keeping the bulk of your subscribers. If SE can make good content and the correct pace, this game will have a very bright future ahead of it.

I agree. I think endgame will be the true test for two reasons:

1) Most people will spend the majority of their time playing characters at level cap
2) A large part of the population that carries over from 1.0 will have characters capped or very close

The first reason kinda goes without saying, but the second reason is the exclamation point on why I think level cap content will be so important to ARR on re-launch. I had hoped that players would be reset completely to level 1(at least soft capped down to something relatively low like 15 or so), but if ARR isn't coming out of the gate with a lot to see and do at level cap it will probably even deter legacy players from even starting from the beginning for lulz. I can't see what the draw would be if you had a capped character and knew that even if you did enjoy the new and improved journey to level cap; there would be nothing shiny waiting for you at the end of that journey.

I had originally planned on sitting out until ARR launched since I wanted to give it a fair shake before making a judgment about it until that point. Depending on how much of the later stages of the game are available in the last beta phase, I may have to rethink that. I think I read somewhere that the trial period for people who already have accounts is 2 weeks? I don't think that's enough time to experience enough of what there is at endgame to come to any real conclusion on whether or not I'd enjoy it enough to sub. Not certain why they wouldn't give everyone the same trial period. Can anyone confirm that?




Edited, Jul 23rd 2013 2:09pm by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#9 Jul 23 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
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I always ignore the audience numbers. Too often, people will give movies high marks simply because they are fans of whichever franchises they are seeing. A great example is the audience rating for just about any Twilight movie, as opposed to the critical ratings.



Example A: The countless 5 star reviews for PS4/Xbone for systems that aren't even released yet.

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#10 Jul 23 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
But then the trick becomes finding one who can, or at least one you agree with more often than not.
I've found the best method was to look for opposing opinions. For instance, if you go to a fansite, and find the opinion of the latest product is overall negative, then chances are good that the product is below average and probably not worth your time. Likewise, a site that is an outspoken detractor of a product suddenly likes the newest one? Probably a good idea to check it out. After all, fans are going to be fans, and detractors are going to be detractors, so it's difficult to take their opinions serious when fans are positive and detractors are negative due to their confirmation bias.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2013 2:34pm by lolgaxe
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#11 Jul 23 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
TurboTom wrote:
I think the real test is endgame; that's where you end up keeping the bulk of your subscribers. If SE can make good content and the correct pace, this game will have a very bright future ahead of it.

I agree. I think endgame will be the true test for two reasons:

1) Most people will spend the majority of their time playing characters at level cap
2) A large part of the population that carries over from 1.0 will have characters capped or very close


There's no doubt in my mind that the focus is correctly on new players right now. No new players = game is dead = no endgame even if it was utterly brilliant.

But at the same time, you're right in reminding us that it's too soon to uncork the champagne just yet. I can recognize that SE has potentially triumphed in pulling FFXIV out of the fire, and it's very encouraging that people are excited about what they see. This is an essential first step and it looks like it will be achieved.

However, the question remains is will that make any difference once 2014 rolls around and we've had our fill of leveling a few characters and classes? Are the tools going to be there to get players to take up the mantle and work together to play long term? Or will this go the way of so many SWtORs before it and dwindle rapidly after a few months? Before the end of the year, there will be an inevitable transition where long term play does make or break FFXIV. This is really only something we can know for sure after release when the net is removed from Yoshida's tightrope act.
#12 Jul 23 2013 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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So far I think they have done very well.

As for endgame they must keep in mind that there are solo players, small group players and raiders in any game.
All are equally important to make any game successful, all are equally long time subscribers so everyones style must be touched on., never focus on raiding only or it will fall into the trap that many mmo are at now, never gaining anywhere near the playerbase they could and I dont want to see that for this one, its simply too beautiful and they put alot of work into it so far :o)

Offer good rewards for all playstyles!! have many crafted gear sets that are very good at the trainers, only some in dungeons/raids.
Dont make raiding so vastly far better then small groups can get (dont make the same mistake that 11 recently has and divide the playerbase so far that the game is at a standstill) Please SE think out of the box 14 will thrive!!

Offer excellent options for all , they dont need to be equal, of course not!!
But not vastly more powerful compared to crafted, quested, small group etc.

Keep all happy and ffxiv will do extremely well, if not it will end up like 11 with a set number of subs, never increasing over 10 years. Strive for more, alot more, 14 deserves this chance to.

Im completely happy so far though, vast improvements from original launch !!!
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#13 Jul 23 2013 at 1:25 PM Rating: Default
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Allestra wrote:
So far I think they have done very well.

As for endgame they must keep in mind that there are solo players, small group players and raiders in any game.
All are equally important to make any game successful, all are equally long time subscribers so everyones style must be touched on., never focus on raiding only or it will fall into the trap that many mmo are at now, never gaining anywhere near the playerbase they could and I dont want to see that for this one, its simply too beautiful and they put alot of work into it so far :o)

Offer good rewards for all playstyles!! have many crafted gear sets that are very good at the trainers, only some in dungeons/raids.
Dont make raiding so vastly far better then small groups can get (dont make the same mistake that 11 recently has and divide the playerbase so far that the game is at a standstill) Please SE think out of the box 14 will thrive!!

Offer excellent options for all , they dont need to be equal, of course not!!
But not vastly more powerful compared to crafted, quested, small group etc.

Keep all happy and ffxiv will do extremely well, if not it will end up like 11 with a set number of subs, never increasing over 10 years. Strive for more, alot more, 14 deserves this chance to.

Im completely happy so far though, vast improvements from original launch !!!



Amen brother amen... You are exactly right.. Two thumbs up..
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#14 Jul 23 2013 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
TurboTom wrote:
I think the real test is endgame; that's where you end up keeping the bulk of your subscribers. If SE can make good content and the correct pace, this game will have a very bright future ahead of it.

I agree. I think endgame will be the true test for two reasons:

1) Most people will spend the majority of their time playing characters at level cap
2) A large part of the population that carries over from 1.0 will have characters capped or very close


There's no doubt in my mind that the focus is correctly on new players right now. No new players = game is dead = no endgame even if it was utterly brilliant.

I still think it's extremely important to have a somewhat established endgame. With new games you can ignore endgame for the most part and work on that after you get your release stabilized because your entire playerbase started at level 1, but that isn't the case with ARR. That's why I stressed the second point. I think that it's a double-edged blade in that regard.

I completely agree with you that ignoring new players is a death sentence. It might seem like it would be more important to focus on them at first glance because we all expect that the larger group will be the new players and not the returning legacy crew. However, if level capped players bow out quickly and directly link a lack of endgame content as the reason; what's to keep the new players around beyond their free trial if they're led to believe(by vets) that endgame is non-existent?

rockYoshihardplace Smiley: frown
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Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#15 Jul 23 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Xoie wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
TurboTom wrote:
I think the real test is endgame; that's where you end up keeping the bulk of your subscribers. If SE can make good content and the correct pace, this game will have a very bright future ahead of it.

I agree. I think endgame will be the true test for two reasons:

1) Most people will spend the majority of their time playing characters at level cap
2) A large part of the population that carries over from 1.0 will have characters capped or very close


There's no doubt in my mind that the focus is correctly on new players right now. No new players = game is dead = no endgame even if it was utterly brilliant.

I still think it's extremely important to have a somewhat established endgame. With new games you can ignore endgame for the most part and work on that after you get your release stabilized because your entire playerbase started at level 1, but that isn't the case with ARR. That's why I stressed the second point. I think that it's a double-edged blade in that regard.

I completely agree with you that ignoring new players is a death sentence. It might seem like it would be more important to focus on them at first glance because we all expect that the larger group will be the new players and not the returning legacy crew. However, if level capped players bow out quickly and directly link a lack of endgame content as the reason; what's to keep the new players around beyond their free trial if they're led to believe(by vets) that endgame is non-existent?

rockYoshihardplace Smiley: frown



This whole endgame content conversation that keeps popping up seems rather irrelevant to me... We won't exactly know what there is until the game is released. It seems people are getting worked up about the issue as if they've already released the game devoid of endgame content.

I'll also guarantee that there is at least a decent amount of endgame at release, with more to come within the coming months. They are certainly not going to take a risk of ******* off all the legacy players.

Has the Yosh not done enough yet to prove he knows what the **** he's doing?

Edit: Also, why are people acting like it is only physically possible to work on a. New gamer content or b. end game content? These aren't mutually exclusive, and the development teams can be divided to work on different aspects.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2013 4:26pm by ClydesShadow
#16Ehllfire, Posted: Jul 23 2013 at 2:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) One, you cant review something not released. That would be a preview. Although the game is loads better than that pile of steaming horse dung called 1.0, I seriously doubt it will get over 80 on metacritic as there is nothing original or gamechanging in its design. Basically not having gimmicks and being a wow clone (dont ban me its the truth not trolling) will keep its score modest. The made a safe game and it will get a safe score.
#17 Jul 23 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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ClydesShadow wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Xoie wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
TurboTom wrote:
I think the real test is endgame; that's where you end up keeping the bulk of your subscribers. If SE can make good content and the correct pace, this game will have a very bright future ahead of it.

I agree. I think endgame will be the true test for two reasons:

1) Most people will spend the majority of their time playing characters at level cap
2) A large part of the population that carries over from 1.0 will have characters capped or very close


There's no doubt in my mind that the focus is correctly on new players right now. No new players = game is dead = no endgame even if it was utterly brilliant.

I still think it's extremely important to have a somewhat established endgame. With new games you can ignore endgame for the most part and work on that after you get your release stabilized because your entire playerbase started at level 1, but that isn't the case with ARR. That's why I stressed the second point. I think that it's a double-edged blade in that regard.

I completely agree with you that ignoring new players is a death sentence. It might seem like it would be more important to focus on them at first glance because we all expect that the larger group will be the new players and not the returning legacy crew. However, if level capped players bow out quickly and directly link a lack of endgame content as the reason; what's to keep the new players around beyond their free trial if they're led to believe(by vets) that endgame is non-existent?

rockYoshihardplace Smiley: frown



This whole endgame content conversation that keeps popping up seems rather irrelevant to me... We won't exactly know what there is until the game is released. It seems people are getting worked up about the issue as if they've already released the game devoid of endgame content.

I'll also guarantee that there is at least a decent amount of endgame at release, with more to come within the coming months. They are certainly not going to take a risk of ******* off all the legacy players.

Has the Yosh not done enough yet to prove he knows what the **** he's doing?

Edit: Also, why are people acting like it is only physically possible to work on a. New gamer content or b. end game content? These aren't mutually exclusive, and the development teams can be divided to work on different aspects.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2013 4:26pm by ClydesShadow


I agree.

It seems only logical that given what Yoshi has done so far, it would only follow that he'd anticipate endgame "problems" and the number of players at cap.

Nothing in all of the dev letters/communications and what I've seen in beta suggest that he would be incompetent in that regard.

I think it's safe to say Yoshi knows what he's doing.

----

Now endgame can mean a lot of things, and I think in this case it means high level dungeons and raids. Yes there will be housing and crafting and companies, high level FATES and all of the other "theme park" stuff, but let's not kid ourselves when the focus will be on raiding.

So what are Yoshi's choices? To have several endgame dungeons and raids, and to up their difficulty to nigh impossible until more people get to cap. (which was hinted at, although I don't remember the source). Then continue on working on patches and expansions.

Personally I hope the cap is raised sooner than later, and that there are more "required" quests, like Genkai/and higher level company/missions when the level cap is raised.
#18 Jul 23 2013 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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You don't have to break new ground to get a 80-85% on review sites. You just have to have content for different playstyles and be polished to the tee and very accessible.

01-49%= Bad design and unplayable
50-59%= Mediocre
60-79%= Above average
80-89%= A cut above the rest, has one or two unique things, standard but polished.
90-100%= Best in the genre, breaking new ground, highly polished, almost perfect but no game is absolutely perfect.

The majority of readers perception is that if it isn't at least 80% the game is a pile of **** usually. But that's not how critics do it.

WoW= 93%
GW2= 90%
EQ2= 83%
EQ= 85%
FFXI= 85%
SWTOR= 85%
Planetside 2= 84%
TERA= 77%
TSW= 73%
DCUO= 72%
APB reloaded= 56%
FFXIV original= 49%

I'd say an 80% or above would put ARR in pretty good company, FFXI their most profitable game to date scored an 85%.



Edited, Jul 23rd 2013 5:57pm by sandpark
#19 Jul 23 2013 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good
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The magic number here is 3. We seem to keep 3 of them around at all times - never fewer.

Anyways -

Glad positive impressions are being publicized. It's been trending that way for a while now and it's good that it maintains. I dare say the safe approach is the right approach here. As far as what it scores in metacritic? I've stopped considering Metacritic as a reliable source of info.

#20 Jul 23 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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No, metacritic is as reliable as scores can get. Regardless of the score some people prefer lower scored games over others though.
#21 Jul 23 2013 at 4:04 PM Rating: Default
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For me, the first five (seconds, minutes, hours) are the absolute WORST of ARR.

The intro scenes are all totally lackluster in comparison to 1.0's and make you want to take a nice nap. There's no drama and no interesting characters are introduced. When you're finally out of that long boring cut scene you're going to be doing an hour of fetch quests because the lady needs a napkin from the man across the way before you can even enter combat.
#22 Jul 23 2013 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
For me, the first five (seconds, minutes, hours) are the absolute WORST of ARR.

The intro scenes are all totally lackluster in comparison to 1.0's and make you want to take a nice nap. There's no drama and no interesting characters are introduced. When you're finally out of that long boring cut scene you're going to be doing an hour of fetch quests because the lady needs a napkin from the man across the way before you can even enter combat.

Spill the beans. How is it lackluster compared to 1.0? I'm not in beta.
#23 Jul 23 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Default
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It's just this super long cutscene with the camera looming on your character's blank face as you ride in a van.

It's basically the same for each town, but a boat for Limsa...etc. Looming camera on blank faces of you (and the other passengers) and just talking about nothing. I literally wanted to fall asleep.

Each 1.0 had drama, cool cutscenes, introduced characters, and really sucked you into the world (of course, everything in 1.0 went downhill after the intros, but still.)
#24 Jul 23 2013 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
It's just this super long cutscene with the camera looming on your character's blank face as you ride in a van.

It's basically the same for each town, but a boat for Limsa...etc. Looming camera on blank faces of you (and the other passengers) and just talking about nothing. I literally wanted to fall asleep.

Each 1.0 had drama, cool cutscenes, introduced characters, and really sucked you into the world (of course, everything in 1.0 went downhill after the intros, but still.)

You mean sort of like this? That does kind of suck. Well I'm not going to judge a whole game on an intro anyhow.
I did like the 1.0 cutscenes better if that video below is how they are now. I guess SE had a good reason.



Edited, Jul 23rd 2013 6:25pm by sandpark
#25 Jul 23 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's just this super long cutscene with the camera looming on your character's blank face as you ride in a van.


Ok.. that lasts like 2 minutes. During which, you get some backstory both on yourself (where the **** DID you come from?) and the city you're going to. The original intro had Leviathan... and pretty much nothing else worth caring about.
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#26 Jul 23 2013 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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It's just this super long cutscene with the camera looming on your character's blank face as you ride in a van.


Ok.. that lasts like 2 minutes. During which, you get some backstory both on yourself (where the **** DID you come from?) and the city you're going to. The original intro had Leviathan... and pretty much nothing else worth caring about.


It also had a rampaging goobue and mogs depending on which city
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