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What A Change a Few Years Can MakeFollow

#102 Jul 25 2013 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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I think you've got a comma in there at the end of the link
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#103 Jul 25 2013 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah I fixed it.
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#104 Jul 25 2013 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I tend to ponder over that. I tends to be a chicken and egg debate when it comes to the accusation of Karma camping. If someone is repeatedly committing an act that invokes a rate-down, then the circumstances of karma camping occur, even though there's no direct maliciousness to an individual.

It's hard to read intent when it comes to Karma ratings, which always becomes a matter for discussion.

Wint, you once suggested that someone 'validate' their rating each time they do so. I once argued in counter that such a thing itself would start to spark rate/flame wars. However, if such a thing could be achieved without exposure. Say, when hitting the rate key, you're prompted for a reasoning (completely optional to fill out.) And that information is simply stored for Admins to see the intent behind the rate in cases of accused karma camping. It would also make for a fair compromise where in the case of someone protesting "Why am I being rated down?" The Admin, at their discretion, then can answer the question directly without causing direct confrontation. "Well, a lot of them are saying you're being overly aggressive in your negativity." Or "Some people think you're flambaiting right now, might want to tone that down."

It's less aggressive than a report, gives people an opportunity to share their reasoning, to help feedback to the poster being rated, and assists Admins with moderation of the Rating function.

Think it might be worth a shot? I know I do a lot of rating myself but I usually put thought into it when I do it. I've no problem sharing my reasoning, but it's not my intent to start fights by having to do so every single time publicly.
#105 Jul 25 2013 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Wint, you once suggested that someone 'validate' their rating each time they do so. I once argued in counter that such a thing itself would start to spark rate/flame wars. However, if such a thing could be achieved without exposure. Say, when hitting the rate key, you're prompted for a reasoning (completely optional to fill out.) And that information is simply stored for Admins to see the intent behind the rate in cases of accused karma camping. It would also make for a fair compromise where in the case of someone protesting "Why am I being rated down?" The Admin, at their discretion, then can answer the question directly without causing direct confrontation. "Well, a lot of them are saying you're being overly aggressive in your negativity." Or "Some people think you're flambaiting right now, might want to tone that down."


Doesn't bother me much, but I'd say I've been the victim of the rate camp more than a few times. The only thing I see wrong with what you're suggesting is that people couldn't be bothered really. When I get rated into oblivion it's rarely even coupled with a quote and response as to why. I'm not sure people would even bother with giving a reason for a rate down.

If you do decide to put this idea forth Wint, I fully endorse the option to have the 'I don't need a reason, it's FilthMcNasty' option available for those who don't have a better reason Smiley: nod


Edited, Jul 25th 2013 11:01pm by FilthMcNasty
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#106 Jul 25 2013 at 9:17 PM Rating: Default
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Honestly though, I think there's merit to providing the feedback, so long as it can be done without those sort of insults, even to you, Filth. The ideal behind the rating system is to encourage more constructive individuals and posts themselves, and to discourage distributive or contradictory posts for their own sake.

That's how I try to use them ,at least. But it gets difficult to relay "Hey, ok, you're point is ok, but you're delivering it like a douche-bag and that needs to stop.", Especially with individuals that like to goad on hot topic conversations, with just a down-vote.

That said, I think people will blatantly ignore individual criticism if it's not tied to any sort of consequence. (Then again, those individuals tend to get banned anyways so moot point, never-mind.)

Goal wise, as I stated before, I'd rather mannerisms be discouraged rather than individuals. It's not 'Oh it's just Filth'. It's "Dammit Filth's goading someone on again."

Again, if this were a roundtable discussion at a dinner table, or at a Tabletop game, the conversation would likely be a lot more civil, or at least the people more friendly.
#107 Jul 25 2013 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Watch the ratings, if you're curious, the forum rules are here: http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Forum_Rules , specifically the Karma section.

Edit: Fixed the link

Edited, Jul 25th 2013 8:54pm by Wint


I rated Wint down because his Fu Manchu intimidates me.

But I rated up italian beef sandwiches because they are delicious.
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#108 Jul 25 2013 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
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#109 Jul 26 2013 at 1:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Honestly though, I think there's merit to providing the feedback, so long as it can be done without those sort of insults, even to you, Filth. The ideal behind the rating system is to encourage more constructive individuals and posts themselves, and to discourage distributive or contradictory posts for their own sake.

I totally agree that there is merit to providing feedback, but I think it's lost unless it's delivered directly to the person who it's voiced against(and sometimes even when it is direct). It's like when you **** your girlfriend off and she doesn't talk to you for 2 days, but she won't tell you what you did wrong. I don't expect anyone will get banned here unless it's an extreme case, but Wint has done a fine job nuking posts and locking threads down on these forums. I don't think we need to police the police.

Hyrist wrote:
Again, if this were a roundtable discussion at a dinner table, or at a Tabletop game, the conversation would likely be a lot more civil, or at least the people more friendly.


Absolutely, but that's mostly because here people remain anonymous.

Perhaps I responded to you in a harsh or abrasive manner in my previous post? I was trolling? What do you think the reason would have been if the person who pressed the red button of doom had to leave feedback? Maybe they just wanted to make my point for me? Smiley: lol
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#110 Jul 26 2013 at 5:19 AM Rating: Default
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The discussion was academic, looking at the rating system in a vacuum and seeing it was worth adding a 'Reason?' tab to the rating button so that the admin has reference to go on. Not so much policing the police but making it possible to give personal feedback through a third person filter without derailing the conversation. Unless it is specifically asked for (as is done with increasing frequency of late) the rate comment section would essentially be invisible - an additional tool for admins.

But it's their choice to consider it, I was just throwing ideas around as Wint cited the 'karma camping' issue by referencing the rule.
#111 Jul 26 2013 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
The discussion was academic, looking at the rating system in a vacuum and seeing it was worth adding a 'Reason?' tab to the rating button so that the admin has reference to go on. Not so much policing the police but making it possible to give personal feedback through a third person filter without derailing the conversation. Unless it is specifically asked for (as is done with increasing frequency of late) the rate comment section would essentially be invisible - an additional tool for admins.

But it's their choice to consider it, I was just throwing ideas around as Wint cited the 'karma camping' issue by referencing the rule.


I understand what you mean, I just don't see how it would be useful. I think if you click the rate down button it should open the window to reply with marked quote and only save the down vote after you click the reply button. That way at least there is some accountability. It would cut down on a lot of the butthurt buttonmash that goes on if you had to put your name to it.

They should probably add reasons to up vote as well. I don't like my experience censored just because a few other posters feel that someone's idea or opinion is invalid. I always expand posts that have been sub-defaulted and up vote them if they aren't in violation of general posting rules and regs. I live in 'murica and I value my freedom of speech, even if it means I'm subjected to everyone else ideas and opinions. It should at least be my choice whether or not I want to ignore someone.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#112 Jul 26 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Transmigration wrote:
The GCD is a problem to a lot of people right now on the main forums, so I'm not alone. Invisible walls are a long shot though, I agree. Much less game breaking than the other 2 issues however.


I don't see it as a problem. I feel like the GCD gave me a brief chance to actually "try" to enjoy the visuals while also looking at all the meters on the screen so I can discern what spell to cast next. (I actually had to turn party members' effects off because two thm's were killing my eyes in a dungeon.) Without the GCD, I would at least want individual spell/action timers.
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