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Letter from the Producer, XLVIII (07/25/2013) Follow

#52 Jul 25 2013 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grandmomma wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
Question: are any of you able to zoom in on what classes the players were in the fight with Titan? I'm curious. My pc is too weak and I couldn't make out what the symbols meant. Thanks.



Anyone???


Not sure why anyone didn't answer this.

From top to bottom:

-Black Mage
-Summoner
-Warrior
-Dragoon
-Monk
-White Mage
-Paladin
-Scholar

I might've gotten the Summoner/Scholar icons wrong, but they're the only icons I don't recognize, and since Summoner is classified as a DPS and Scholar is a healer, I think I got it right.
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#53 Jul 25 2013 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
silverhope wrote:
I understand why they test the gamepad more just thought they would wanna balance the two together so like you said people would just play what they like.

Many posts on the beta forums from people who switch to gamepad cuz the game feels more alive and fast paced than KB+m. Its a hard thing to balance . If you make it faster for kbm than its to fast for gamepad if its good for gamepad than its to slow for kbm.

Some people want ffxi style slow combat zone want wow/ year speed .

I'm confused how 1 feels so much more alive and faster paced than the other.



I think there argument is that since KBM are faster the game feels slower and since Gamepad is slower to use it seems faster.
#54 Jul 25 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Yeah, I mean XIV relics, mythic, empy are all about steady progress. They are gated, essentially. Keep in mind, these relics should be thought of as Stage 1 or 2 relics. They will be upgraded (confirmed) so...

Edited, Jul 25th 2013 3:22pm by Louiscool



I hope so considering the stats i see on teh current complete weapons dont look all that spectacular or worth the effort they take to gain, especially when compared to what the FFXI relics give you


I think that if you compare 14 to 11, you will be perpetually disappointed.



Ive known that since 1.0 first launched lol. But still something that take months to procure (as opposed to ffxi's years) should still offer significant traits and benefits over something you can get in a few days aside from maybe a higher damage output... sooo hopefully when teh relic upgrades hit we'll start seeing those kinda things


No doubt. I read that the weapon progression will be Primal > Relic > Crystal Tower > Bahamut > ??? > Relic Upgrade > Mythic

All speculation but there was many mentions of Mythic weapons for which the servers are named after (Excalibur, Masamune, Raganark) and I would assume THESE would be much harder to obtain, while the current relics are glorified AF weapons.




well considering relic is already hard to obtain to most casuals (supposedly) umm just how much harder can MUCH HARDER be? >.> Also if they have a Masamune it would have to be a katana (it wouldnt make much sense otherwise) and we;ll wed need a katana wielding class/job for that.. i mean a pld with a katana just sounds all kinds of wrong lol
#55 Jul 25 2013 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Ha! Yeah Duo, in the same breath, Yoshi-P said the same thing... something along the lines of "We'll introduce mythic weapons after we have a katana wielding class. Smiley: sly"
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#56 Jul 25 2013 at 3:46 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
Ha! Yeah Duo, in the same breath, Yoshi-P said the same thing... something along the lines of "We'll introduce mythic weapons after we have a katana wielding class. Smiley: sly"



good because this isnt demon souls after all



speaking of new classes. how is getting ppl to redo old content gonna work? I mean lets say samurai and or thief dont get introduced until 2015.

right now when teh game is launched everyone will want relic so it will be EASY to get ppl to do those things, but what about 2 years from now when everyone who wants relic has it and now only the handful who want it for their thief and or sam are doing it but cant get enough ppl or have to shout for decades to get it... isnt this the very scenario the devs claim to want to avoid? How would they go about doing that?
#57 Jul 25 2013 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Ha! Yeah Duo, in the same breath, Yoshi-P said the same thing... something along the lines of "We'll introduce mythic weapons after we have a katana wielding class. Smiley: sly"



good because this isnt demon souls after all



speaking of new classes. how is getting ppl to redo old content gonna work? I mean lets say samurai and or thief dont get introduced until 2015.

right now when the game is launched everyone will want relic so it will be EASY to get ppl to do those things, but what about 2 years from now when everyone who wants relic has it and now only the handful who want it for their thief and or sam are doing it but cant get enough ppl or have to shout for decades to get it... isnt this the very scenario the devs claim to want to avoid? How would they go about doing that?


They can always retrograde rewards in as needed. Level Sync and the Duty Finder help alleviate the issue already in terms of getting friends or filling in holes in a group.

Or introduce new lower level dungeons that provide drops or loot that scales with level.

Or even making a scaling difficulty slider so that the content can be soloed.

Or provide more quests in the area to allow players to level with new quests and Leves.

Plenty of ways of solving the problem. As it's not an immediate concern we shouldn't be fretting over it right now.
#58 Jul 25 2013 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Arjuncorpse wrote:
When he says, "in hard mode you'll need eight players to take him down. Just wait until you see the extreme mode battle we're working on." does he mean there is going to be a 3rd difficulty mode for the primals or is he just referring to hard mode as extreme mode?

Edited, Jul 25th 2013 1:25pm by Arjuncorpse

Normal=Four players
Hard= Eight players
Extreme= Alliance?

And with each mode your resources go down while enemy resources go up?
#59 Jul 25 2013 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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HeroMystic wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
Question: are any of you able to zoom in on what classes the players were in the fight with Titan? I'm curious. My pc is too weak and I couldn't make out what the symbols meant. Thanks.



Anyone???


Not sure why anyone didn't answer this.

From top to bottom:

-Black Mage
-Summoner
-Warrior
-Dragoon
-Monk
-White Mage
-Paladin
-Scholar

I might've gotten the Summoner/Scholar icons wrong, but they're the only icons I don't recognize, and since Summoner is classified as a DPS and Scholar is a healer, I think I got it right.


Oh thank you so much!! I was interested to see what classes they ended up using for such a fight.
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.
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#60 Jul 25 2013 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Yeah, I mean XIV relics, mythic, empy are all about steady progress. They are gated, essentially. Keep in mind, these relics should be thought of as Stage 1 or 2 relics. They will be upgraded (confirmed) so...

Edited, Jul 25th 2013 3:22pm by Louiscool



I hope so considering the stats i see on teh current complete weapons dont look all that spectacular or worth the effort they take to gain, especially when compared to what the FFXI relics give you


From the way things look right now, gear will probably be closer to the disposable, quick to get, quick to replace model of WoW and its various "clones" than FFXI's original model of only seeing a true upgrade for a slot every year or two.
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#61 Jul 25 2013 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:
testing only on gamepads can be a bad thing.. intense fights with gamepads can be dull and slow on keyboard.. really wish they would test on both.


Bad thing for you, maybe. You do remember this is also a PS3 game, right?
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#62 Jul 25 2013 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Yeah, I mean XIV relics, mythic, empy are all about steady progress. They are gated, essentially. Keep in mind, these relics should be thought of as Stage 1 or 2 relics. They will be upgraded (confirmed) so...

Edited, Jul 25th 2013 3:22pm by Louiscool



I hope so considering the stats i see on teh current complete weapons dont look all that spectacular or worth the effort they take to gain, especially when compared to what the FFXI relics give you


From the way things look right now, gear will probably be closer to the disposable, quick to get, quick to replace model of WoW and its various "clones" than FFXI's original model of only seeing a true upgrade for a slot every year or two.


except even WoW has "uber" weapons and armor
#63 Jul 25 2013 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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Grandmomma wrote:

Oh thank you so much!! I was interested to see what classes they ended up using for such a fight.
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.


Oh I wouldn't look at it like that. I'd probably just assume they wanted the two new jobs in just to show off the new hotness. 9 jobs and 8 slots with the need to show off the two new jobs? Someone has to sideline it... I am quite sure you will be able to swap out any of the DD jobs for a Bard. At least that is what I am going with.
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#64 Jul 25 2013 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grandmomma wrote:
HeroMystic wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
Question: are any of you able to zoom in on what classes the players were in the fight with Titan? I'm curious. My pc is too weak and I couldn't make out what the symbols meant. Thanks.



Anyone???


Not sure why anyone didn't answer this.

From top to bottom:

-Black Mage
-Summoner
-Warrior
-Dragoon
-Monk
-White Mage
-Paladin
-Scholar

I might've gotten the Summoner/Scholar icons wrong, but they're the only icons I don't recognize, and since Summoner is classified as a DPS and Scholar is a healer, I think I got it right.


Oh thank you so much!! I was interested to see what classes they ended up using for such a fight.
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't worry too much about ARC/BRD. For 8 and 24-man groups, you'll probably always want at least one for Rain of Death. Whatever damage a party potentially loses by adding a BRD will be more than made up for by the 10% damage increase.
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#65 Jul 25 2013 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:

I think there argument is that since KBM are faster the game feels slower and since Gamepad is slower to use it seems faster.

Perhaps it being a new control scheme to learn contributes to that. It shouldn't be much different once playing with a controller becomes second nature.
#66 Jul 25 2013 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
From the way things look right now, gear will probably be closer to the disposable, quick to get, quick to replace model of WoW and its various "clones" than FFXI's original model of only seeing a true upgrade for a slot every year or two.


except even WoW has "uber" weapons and armor


Except it doesn't. It has BiS at the time during a patch cycle and that cycle only. Sulfuras was replaced by Ashkandi in the next tier, and the original Naxx staves were trophies with teleports on them. Glaives were replaced by anything in Naxx 25 in the start of Wrath. Val'anyr wasn't anything special because the proc overwrote and was overwritten by a Priest's shield. Shadowmourne, like the Glaives, were replaced in the first raid in Cata. Rogue daggers were replaced by quested blues in MoP.

The only exception to this rule was Thunderfury and that went through four nerf patches before they finally just got rid of the extra threat on the weapon at the start of TBC. It was their first "uber" weapon and they admitted they goofed and nerfed it no less than five times to finally get tanks to move on to better weapons.

Well, Thunderfury and some trinkets, but even still they don't last beyond 2 tiers usually.

So no, WoW has nothing like Relic weapons because even the "legendaries" get replaced in the next raid tier.
#67 Jul 25 2013 at 7:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
So no, WoW has nothing like Relic weapons because even the "legendaries" get replaced in the next raid tier.


Sort of... since Wrath, legendaries have been best-in-slot for the length of the expansion.

I'm not sure it's really healthy for a vertically-progressed game to have gear you never replace. Eventually you'd get to a point where you don't need to do new content because it's literally impossible for you to get anything out of it.
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#68 Jul 25 2013 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Yeah, I mean XIV relics, mythic, empy are all about steady progress. They are gated, essentially. Keep in mind, these relics should be thought of as Stage 1 or 2 relics. They will be upgraded (confirmed) so...

Edited, Jul 25th 2013 3:22pm by Louiscool



I hope so considering the stats i see on teh current complete weapons dont look all that spectacular or worth the effort they take to gain, especially when compared to what the FFXI relics give you


From the way things look right now, gear will probably be closer to the disposable, quick to get, quick to replace model of WoW and its various "clones" than FFXI's original model of only seeing a true upgrade for a slot every year or two.


Closer, but not the same. I see it as more of a blend. I don't think they are quick to dispose of the 1.0 gear progression, and materia REALLY made normal gear stand out and stick around past its level. The risk/reward of triple melding was great, and I hope it stays.

Even in FFXI, they've been adopting a similar model, where great gear still progresses without disposing of it by upgrading it.
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#69 Jul 25 2013 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
KarlHungis wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Yeah, I mean XIV relics, mythic, empy are all about steady progress. They are gated, essentially. Keep in mind, these relics should be thought of as Stage 1 or 2 relics. They will be upgraded (confirmed) so...

Edited, Jul 25th 2013 3:22pm by Louiscool



I hope so considering the stats i see on teh current complete weapons dont look all that spectacular or worth the effort they take to gain, especially when compared to what the FFXI relics give you


From the way things look right now, gear will probably be closer to the disposable, quick to get, quick to replace model of WoW and its various "clones" than FFXI's original model of only seeing a true upgrade for a slot every year or two.


Closer, but not the same. I see it as more of a blend. I don't think they are quick to dispose of the 1.0 gear progression, and materia REALLY made normal gear stand out and stick around past its level. The risk/reward of triple melding was great, and I hope it stays.

Even in FFXI, they've been adopting a similar model, where great gear still progresses without disposing of it by upgrading it.


I agree with you on the materia, the way crafting looks and what ive read, i really think that each tier of gear will have his best made/looted gear for those levels, on the beta forms i read that they said crafted gear will be on par with looted gear, i would imagine like pink gear would be on par with HQ gear, i hope thats true. I feel that it will be a blended because crafting looks to be a big part of the game, i plan on crafting all my own HQ equipment, so i hope they have end game items need to craft end game items, well see!
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#70 Jul 25 2013 at 11:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
So no, WoW has nothing like Relic weapons because even the "legendaries" get replaced in the next raid tier.


Sort of... since Wrath, legendaries have been best-in-slot for the length of the expansion.

I'm not sure it's really healthy for a vertically-progressed game to have gear you never replace. Eventually you'd get to a point where you don't need to do new content because it's literally impossible for you to get anything out of it.


Except that with the exception of the healer mace in Ulduar (which was quickly outpaced and rendered obsolete in sheer healing capabilities in ToC weapons as the proc was broken), every single legendary has cropped up in the last raid of the expansion so that's not really saying much. The majority of the populace didn't bother with the one deviation (Ruby Sanctum in WotLK) due to the fact that the majority of the gear actually wasn't really better than the previous tier (mostly side-grades, which was really odd for WoW).

I don't...mind.... a completely vertical progression path of gearing but I would actually prefer a blend of the two, yet I don't think it's realistically possible. Theoretically, sure. Realistically in implementation I doubt it could ever work because it would be too much of a hassle to try to keep the push and pull worth the balancing nightmare. FFXI's sidegrade mess only really works for people that continually try to keep up with the new content. For someone coming into the game late there's always been this massive "catch up" race that's only lately begun to not be a problem (but FFXI's current state of affairs as far as Adoulin/Delve/gear is a whole other topic beyond this one...).

You see you need a few relic pieces that are augmented (which is a grind of itself), you need NNI gear, you probably need a few things from Abyssea, you possibly could still need an OLD abujuration with augments that are decent, you need salvage II gear, there's more than likely pieces from Voidwatch you *need* for TP/hybrid setups, you need bayld and outdoor delve items, etc... and this is all just to get you ready for the current content. By the time you've actually gotten everything (if S1 boss drops don't decide to say "FU" as the rest of the pieces are ridiculously easy to get now) you're months behind and are playing catchup on what you missed while getting what you were already missing, etc. OR, you just grind money for a month and hope someone's selling megaboss KI clears to just bypass the majority of that.

Then you have 95% of the other MMOs that go vertical where you replace virtually everything every patch. For the upgrade feeling of getting more powerful (which FFXI didn't really do too well since most adjustments outside of your weapon can't even be seen outside of parses) it's great, but gear becomes less meaningful but it's significantly easier for latecomers to catch-up to friends and actually be useful.

It's a nightmare on both sides.

There's always Firefall's "No one drops gear, just components" but that doesn't actually strike me as particular fun even if it's technically better.

Edited, Jul 26th 2013 1:22am by Viertel
#71 Jul 26 2013 at 4:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
So no, WoW has nothing like Relic weapons because even the "legendaries" get replaced in the next raid tier.


Sort of... since Wrath, legendaries have been best-in-slot for the length of the expansion.

I'm not sure it's really healthy for a vertically-progressed game to have gear you never replace. Eventually you'd get to a point where you don't need to do new content because it's literally impossible for you to get anything out of it.


Or more simply, if they did something like FFVII, FFVIII, FFXI etc... where you need to gather certain items to upgrade or generate a newer iteration of the same weapon. I believe this is something Yoshi had discussed. Don't quote me on it. I'm being lazy and avoiding an hour search to post it here. Regardless, I think there are creative ways around this concern.

Edited, Jul 26th 2013 6:41am by kainsilv
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#72 Jul 26 2013 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Except that with the exception of the healer mace in Ulduar (which was quickly outpaced and rendered obsolete in sheer healing capabilities in ToC weapons as the proc was broken), every single legendary has cropped up in the last raid of the expansion so that's not really saying much.


Dragonwrath. Also there were guilds having problems in heroic ICC that made trips back to Ulduar to build more Val'anyrs. Wrath was a weird healer game (I played a healer in wrath, doing heroic raids).

I get your point though, and some mix of the two might be ok. As long as SE is aware of the danger and plans accordingly, it'll probably be fine. Only way to know for sure is to wait and see.

Quote:
Or more simply, if they did something like FFVII, FFVIII, FFXI etc... where you need to gather certain items to upgrade or generate a newer iteration of the same weapon


That sounds like more or less what's going to happen. Where you'll take some weapon through a lengthy upgrade process. My concern is really whether that process is mandatory or not. Will there be weapon upgrades that are sufficiently upgradey for people who don't have their stage 17 relic? Also how DOES someone catch up 5 years down the line when raiding FCs are asking them why they don't have their stage 54 relic yet?
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#73 Jul 26 2013 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.
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#74 Jul 26 2013 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.


Or.. even the devs realize that the buffs from bard are hella-weak.. because they are.. For bard, it is hardly worthwhile to use Ballad with the mp drain on yourself.
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#75 Jul 26 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.


Or.. even the devs realize that the buffs from bard are hella-weak.. because they are.. For bard, it is hardly worthwhile to use Ballad with the mp drain on yourself.


Wow what a shame, BRD was the most sought-after job in FFXI for a very long time... I guess I won't be doing BRD in FFXIV:ARR.
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#76 Jul 26 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Game isnt out and people giving up on bard? Im going to take a guess that the actual uses for bard havent been fully realized, versus that they are "weak".
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#77 Jul 26 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.


I think to illustrate the point you could ask, would they have left out the Black Mage instead of the Bard?
#78 Jul 26 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hairspray wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.

Or.. even the devs realize that the buffs from bard are hella-weak.. because they are.. For bard, it is hardly worthwhile to use Ballad with the mp drain on yourself.

Wow what a shame, BRD was the most sought-after job in FFXI for a very long time... I guess I won't be doing BRD in FFXIV:ARR.

I've said it before, but the songs are purely situational. BRD is a DPS with the added convenience of a few support abilities. Outside of downtime and some extended boss fights, the songs are pretty much worthless.

Rain of Death, on the other hand, is awesome. I doubt there's a better debuff than it in the game. In larger groups, the 10% increase to everyone's damage will more than outweigh any disadvantages a BRD might carry. Add in the 10% damage reduction to the monster's attacks, and you have an extremely valuable ability. The only downside to it is that it's an AoE. If you have a BLM sleeping mobs, you'll hardly be able to use it.
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#79 Jul 26 2013 at 9:58 AM Rating: Default
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FrozenSherbet wrote:
Hairspray wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.

Or.. even the devs realize that the buffs from bard are hella-weak.. because they are.. For bard, it is hardly worthwhile to use Ballad with the mp drain on yourself.

Wow what a shame, BRD was the most sought-after job in FFXI for a very long time... I guess I won't be doing BRD in FFXIV:ARR.

I've said it before, but the songs are purely situational. BRD is a DPS with the added convenience of a few support abilities. Outside of downtime and some extended boss fights, the songs are pretty much worthless.

Rain of Death, on the other hand, is awesome. I doubt there's a better debuff than it in the game. In larger groups, the 10% increase to everyone's damage will more than outweigh any disadvantages a BRD might carry. Add in the 10% damage reduction to the monster's attacks, and you have an extremely valuable ability. The only downside to it is that it's an AoE. If you have a BLM sleeping mobs, you'll hardly be able to use it.

Or just carry a marauder/warrior and forget the sleep
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#80 Jul 26 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Paladin can hold the same. Just split your DDs instead of overfocusing on one. Only cause in which splitting damage focus is a problem is if the enemy group has something like a bomb that would be better focusing on or kept slept until you can - and in that case the Maurader isn't going to do any better for you than a Paladin.
#81 Jul 26 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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Ehllfire wrote:
Game isnt out and people giving up on bard? Im going to take a guess that the actual uses for bard havent been fully realized, versus that they are "weak".


No.. but as I have Brd and other jobs at level 50, I can tell you it disappoints me, as it's my main job and I have trouble justifying the use of songs for the insane costs. (and the game IS out in that I totally played it and there have been no announced changes to brd..)

Edited, Jul 26th 2013 1:34pm by Louiscool
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#82 Jul 26 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.


reptiletim wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
No Archer/Bard, wowza. It doesn't bode well then, for that class. Unless, it was the reason why they lost, because they didn't have one in the party. Hmmm.

I wouldn't read too much into the absence of Archer/Bard. It's an 8 man party, and there are 9 jobs. One of the jobs was going to get left out. It just happened to be Bard in this particular case.


I think to illustrate the point you could ask, would they have left out the Black Mage instead of the Bard?


Considering I was going to start out Arch instead of THM, this lineup just opened my eyes, wideopen.
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#83 Jul 26 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure if I would read too much into the lack of BRD in this one instance. Also, I'm not sure that I would base the utility/efficiency of the job based on its skills in beta. Most likely if the common complaint is that the songs are too costly to justify using, it will be balanced out. This game is more than likely going to have multplie class/job balancing patches. Just because no changes have been announced yet for this job, doesn't mean there won't be changes in the future.

Heck most MMOs that are established and have been out for years are STILL balancing things as new features are added. As we have seen through Yoshi's direction, he really wants to ensure no one job is singled out as useless. If the game is inbalanced due to something as simple as the cost of using songs, it shouldn't take much effort to just lower the costs or increase the efficacy of the song.
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#84 Jul 26 2013 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I mean.. guys... do you honestly think that when SE was putting that together, they sat around and said "Oh.. well, we obviously can't bring a bard to this, bards are awful, loooooool"

It's an 8-man party, there are 9 jobs. They probably wanted to get SCH and SMN in there for testing purposes at the same time (because why not). There's no subtext here to read.
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#85 Jul 27 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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For the people worrying about BRD, this link was posted in this thread of the beta forums. While it doesn't necessarily prove anything, it does show that BRD has the ability to be effective in a party setting.
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#86 Jul 27 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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XI's iteration of BRD was rather poorly thought out, too. I know it was typically a "must have" but too often I'd consider it in the "bad way" on the balance scales (COR, SMN, and even GEO were not "alternative" options). And sometimes I think I'm one of the few people who thought BRD rotations were silly for even being possible (Would've preferred songs being alliance-wide instead of forcing people to drop party to sing in another). XI's BRD didn't really put any thought into upkeep, either, just recast your stuff every 2 minutes or so and maybe play a gimpy WHM in events in between. XIV's version may not be as potent in the buff department in consequence, but I'd dare say it makes the job more engaging this time around. Those wanting some low-maintenance buff bot they can multi-box around or princess into endgame like XI will surely be disappointed.
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#87 Jul 27 2013 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I see some very curious things in those pictures. He says this test was done with a gamepad but what are 2 and 3 rows on the bottom right of some of the pics? That sort of looks like a hybrid gamepad/keyboard setup with some abilities set separately from each other. There are numbers above each of the abilities in the top row there.

Or is that a way to check cool downs from abilities that are not on the current set list. Something I think would be very much needed with a full list of level 50 skills.
#88 Jul 27 2013 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
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FluEpidemic wrote:
I see some very curious things in those pictures. He says this test was done with a gamepad but what are 2 and 3 rows on the bottom right of some of the pics? That sort of looks like a hybrid gamepad/keyboard setup with some abilities set separately from each other. There are numbers above each of the abilities in the top row there.

Or is that a way to check cool downs from abilities that are not on the current set list. Something I think would be very much needed with a full list of level 50 skills.


Yeah, Yoshi uses extra hotbars as cool down reminders.
#89 Jul 28 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Is it possible to do this on ps3? I'm afraid that as a high level PUG I won't be able to fit all my abilities on one hotkey cross bar. Then I won't be able to readily view all my cool downs. I ran out of space at the max level in the P3 with all the cross class abilities.

Edited, Jul 28th 2013 7:46pm by FluEpidemic
#90Theonehio, Posted: Jul 28 2013 at 2:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Probably because you wanted to play less of a Bard and more of an Archer. Right now Bard is an Archer with more than Swiftsong, you can easily remove Bard from the game and give everything to Archer and no one would know.
#91 Jul 28 2013 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
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This is because you wanted 4 jobs that did the exact same thing,

So then why is it okay for BRD to be a snowflake when WAR, DRK, SAM, DRG, THF, RNG, and then some had to fight over DD spots? We're skirting dangerously into princess territory here. Especially in a game where there are now more jobs than alliance spots.

Edited, Jul 28th 2013 11:18pm by Seriha
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#92 Jul 28 2013 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
Quote:
This is because you wanted 4 jobs that did the exact same thing,

So then why is it okay for BRD to be a snowflake when WAR, DRK, SAM, DRG, THF, RNG, and then some had to fight over DD spots? We're skirting dangerously into princess territory here. Especially in a game where there are now more jobs than alliance spots.


I agree with you Seriha on this particular comparison.
#93 Jul 29 2013 at 3:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Hairspray wrote:
Wow what a shame, BRD was the most sought-after job in FFXI for a very long time... I guess I won't be doing BRD in FFXIV:ARR.
Not sure if that's sarcasm or if you're actually serious.

Bard is more than fine from what I've seen. Some are grumbling because the fact BRD is DPS with group cooldowns rather than straight-out buff bot doesn't guarantee them a spot in groups anymore. Sure, you don't have to reserve a spot in a group for a bard in FFXIV, but that doesn't spell trouble for the job in any way. As mentioned earlier, 9 jobs, 8 slots in a party.
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#94 Jul 29 2013 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Quote:
This is because you wanted 4 jobs that did the exact same thing,

So then why is it okay for BRD to be a snowflake when WAR, DRK, SAM, DRG, THF, RNG, and then some had to fight over DD spots? We're skirting dangerously into princess territory here. Especially in a game where there are now more jobs than alliance spots.


I agree with you Seriha on this particular comparison.


I'll be very frank here: FFXI did a terrible job with class balance and design, we just accepted it as what it was and worked around it. I'm glad The developers aren't borrowing from XI's mechanics.

I'm not sure how one screenshot is making anyone worry about BRD though. I mean, what is there to tell? Bard simply isn't there, nothing more.

Edited, Jul 29th 2013 10:14am by HeroMystic
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