Forum Settings
       
1 2 Next »
Reply To Thread

Scholar v. White MageFollow

#52 Aug 04 2013 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
**
624 posts
Ravashack wrote:
That being said, you're right in that it's best to see 1 SCH and 1 WHM if two healers are needed on a tank. There's no real good reason to stack two SCH on the same recipient in a raid situation anyway.

I'm not so sure about that... with the fairies having those auras for skill speed/spell speed and healing, its certainly possible that there may be reasons to stack them.
From the skill descriptions it seems that 2xSCH could fulltime buff party skill and spell speed.

EDIT: I'd also like to mention that everyone's assessments of SCH left out the 300 Potency cure that both Fairies have and all of the other abilities they have...

Edited, Aug 4th 2013 7:22pm by TenchiHawkwing
____________________________
We met in the mist of morning
And parted deep in the night
Broken sword and shield, and tears that never fall
But run through the heart
Washed away by the darkest water
The world is peaceful and still

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dmVU08zVpA
It's my **** in a box!
#53 Aug 04 2013 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,962 posts
TenchiHawkwing wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
That being said, you're right in that it's best to see 1 SCH and 1 WHM if two healers are needed on a tank. There's no real good reason to stack two SCH on the same recipient in a raid situation anyway.

I'm not so sure about that... with the fairies having those auras for skill speed/spell speed and healing, its certainly possible that there may be reasons to stack them.
From the skill descriptions it seems that 2xSCH could fulltime buff party skill and spell speed.

EDIT: I'd also like to mention that everyone's assessments of SCH left out the 300 Potency cure that both Fairies have and all of the other abilities they have...

Edited, Aug 4th 2013 7:22pm by TenchiHawkwing


I certainly didn't leave them out. But until we know how intelligent the AI is or even how often it can cast Embrace, it's difficult to tell how useful it will be in a raid situation.

The fact of the matter is, unless the barriers stack, in a raid situation where 2 healers are needed on the main tank, WHM and SCH would be far superior. That doesn't mean you can't have 2 SCH in your raid, it just means one will be tank healing, and one will be raid healing. Think about it this way:

If 2 SCH cast Succor II, and they both hit between a boss swing, you're getting 2 300 potency heals, with 1 300 potency shield, for a total of 900 potency. (Because one shield is overwritten or even worse, has no effect.) With a Cure II and a Succor II, you're getting a 300 potency heal, 300 potency shield, and 500 potency heal, for a total of 1100 potency. A 200 potency difference may not seem like much, but that's a 20% increase. Over the course of the fight, that's going to make things a lot easier.

We're also not really even sure if certain spells can be used on raid members outside of your party. Will protect hit raid members as well as party members? I guess we'll have to wait and find out. If not, a WHM will be absolutely required in the tank PT due to proshell.

Edited, Aug 4th 2013 5:40pm by RamseySylph
#54 Aug 05 2013 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
**
362 posts
KarlHungis wrote:
Anakte wrote:

The problem with min/maxing is this... only maybe 5% of players are actually good enough, and efficient enough to be in that category, but once they do, everyone thinks that's the only way to do things when in reality after that 5% player ability becomes a much much greater factor in success. A top tier world first guild might kill a boss using one class over another because it allowed a 1% damage increase over another, and when racing against other world first quality guilds that might matter, but unless you're in that tier you've already lost that minor advantage.

So yea, I'm sure someone will do the math, someone will have a spreadsheet that shows if both classes are played perfectly over a long fight, one is greater than the other, and then the community will parrot that, but in reality as long as the numbers are close both classes will be essentially equal for 95% of the playerbase.


I think this analysis is way off apart from the fact that you're just choosing an arbitrary number.

First of all, the number of people affected has a lot to do with the amount of discrepancy. If you're talking about a 10-20% difference in gross damage output for example then that's going to have an impact on literally any party, no matter what they're doing, and that's going to drive preferences even on easy content, because people want to finish trivial content more quickly or with lower repair bills or whatever, even if they are mostly guaranteed to finish it either way.

Secondly, it really depends on the effort needed to get the most of out any class, which may present a different picture at mid/low skill levels than at max. Maybe in the hands of a very skilled player, every damage dealer can put out the same damage, but in the hands of a mediocre player, dragoon wins hands down because it's just simpler than managing stances and positional requirements, etc. Well then, over time, most players are going to prefer partying with dragoons, and most players will prefer playing a dragoon if their goal is to get good damage without trying to become an expert player. For much of the life of WoW, Hunters were shunned in groups, even though an expert player could get very good damage and superior CC from them, because frankly, most players were casual and caused all kinds of problems by letting their pet run wild, multi-shotting CC'd mobs, etc.

There is no 5% or 10% limit on who is affected by class disparities. The bottom line is it always matters 1) How difficult the content is compared to the players and 2) How noticeable the performance difference is between classes.

With regard to the original poster I responded to, you can *never* say that the community won't develop strong preferences for which classes they want to play or group with, because this thing is always in motion and things are always changing. The very structure of the game ensures that from time to time there will be a perception that one class or another is superior or inferior.

The one nice thing about FFXIV compared to many other MMOs, is that as a player you can prepare for this eventuality by playing many different classes and jobs, so you're in a strong position to take advantage of these sorts of imbalances instead of being taken advantage of.

Yes, the number I chose was arbitrary, in a game like Warcraft the percentage is a lot lot smaller because of the number of people that play the game, in XIV the percentage will be higher but not by much for what I'm talking about.

So, my point was that if we're not talking about broken classes. 10-20% is broken, 1-3% is where classes become essentially equal, but min/max spreadsheets will show a "winner" and in the 1-3% difference the mathematical winner is not really important except for the people at the absolute top of the playerbase in terms of skill, in a LS entirely at the top of the playerbase, looking for world firsts (if XIV people will even care about things like that).

But, because a spreadsheet says X is better than Y the playerbase will say... well we're trying to beat this boss for the first time, we really need a MNK because they're obviously the best damage based on this spreadsheet, and they take Johnny Noskill because he has MNK leveled and not Joey Awesomesauce because he's a DRG. If Joey Awesomesauce is a much better player, then he would've been a much better party addition because at that range his skill will trump the small hypothetical max the MNK could've done. That's my only point.
____________________________
Anakte Grey
BLM 50 SMN/SCH 50 WHM 40
MRD 26 DRG 30 MNK 30 GLA 25

http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/416469141_Vt5aq-XL-2.jpg
1 2 Next »
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 100 All times are in CDT
Callinon, Holhorse, Theonehio, Anonymous Guests (97)