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#27 Jul 29 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Ravashack wrote:


It's very noticeable when you came from games with instantaneous reactions to your button pressing. There was definitely a pause, however slight, between when you pressed the button and when the effect went off in FFXIV 1.0.


Can I ask how long you played 1.0? I never got the chance and was curious if the game was as laggy as people claim in these old threads. I'm liking what I see for ARR though. I think SE has done a great job so far with their new system.


I played until slightly after Rift came out. 1.0 lag wasn't unplayable, just irritating. In combat, on my connection (cable modem), I could easily ignore it because combat settled into a repetitive routine. It was more obvious in crafting, because the crafting orb was time sensitive and even White orb -> White orb was pretty distinct, so you easily could run into a situation where you pressed the button, the orb changed, and then your action went off. I could see people saying it is "unplayable" if their ISP did not like constantly connecting to Japan though. What actually WAS horrific and related to connectivity were the patch downloads, as there was very little rhyme or reason to how fast the downloads went.

Edit: That's a good point Bartel. I didn't think about the model displaying issue because old EQ habits kicked in and I tended to avoid crowds except for when retainers were involved. I'd forgotten about the retainer system specifically. It was put together so horribly that putting too many retainers in a retainer ward actually crashed the ward. It took a while before people caught on to that.

Edited, Jul 29th 2013 3:37pm by Ravashack
#28 Jul 29 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:

0.08 vs 0.3 only matters as long as the servers even react to such negligible changes in latency. Even if the latency to a server in US is 80ms doesn't mean you can take advantage of it in-game. Both XI and XIV 1.0/ARR have in-game lag that is a lot higher than 0.3 seconds. It is not related to ping but the way the game and the servers interact.


Let me ask you a simple question, why are there NA servers?

I don't know your background, but this is my field and I know what I'm talking about here. Maybe the difference isn't a big deal to you, but it is to me and many others. We don't know how ARR will run, it's not running as intended yet. There are bottlenecks with the throughput if that's what you're referring to here, but I'm not going to guess. So please come out and say what exactly you're referring to because there are too many factors to discount anything at this point.


All he's saying is that ping shouldn't matter if the game both has a tolerance for a certain amount of latency and also won't let you take advantage of a better ping. This isn't an FPS, so that level of responsiveness isn't as critical.

However, unlike in FFXI, this game does have certain interactive qualities that do make positioning very important, even critical for certain fights. In 1.0, latency was a factor that those in Europe and Eastern North America couldn't overcome because the laws of physics wouldn't let them (light can only travel so fast, and server-side verification demanded a few global round trips). This is why there are servers in Montreal.
#29 Jul 29 2013 at 1:57 PM Rating: Default
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Xoie wrote:

All he's saying is that ping shouldn't matter if the game both has a tolerance for a certain amount of latency and also won't let you take advantage of a better ping. This isn't an FPS, so that level of responsiveness isn't as critical.

However, unlike in FFXI, this game does have certain interactive qualities that do make positioning very important, even critical for certain fights. In 1.0, latency was a factor that those in Europe and Eastern North America couldn't overcome because the laws of physics wouldn't let them (light can only travel so fast, and server-side verification demanded a few global round trips). This is why there are servers in Montreal.


So you're saying because the game isn't "real time" it has a natural latency anyways which doesn't benefit from a lower ping. I'm more intrigued about what changed between 1.0 and ARR. The data sent from the servers doesn't really use much bandwidth since the client is handling that on their platform. If FFXIV was streaming everything, that would be different.
#30 Jul 29 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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As long as its fixed for stuff like Ifrit eruptions, I'm ok. Just don't design endgame encounters that require extreme twitch reactions if the issue can't be fully fixed like it sounds. It may affect PvP, but I really couldn't care less for PvP, so personally its not an issue.
#31 Jul 29 2013 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Xoie wrote:

All he's saying is that ping shouldn't matter if the game both has a tolerance for a certain amount of latency and also won't let you take advantage of a better ping. This isn't an FPS, so that level of responsiveness isn't as critical.

However, unlike in FFXI, this game does have certain interactive qualities that do make positioning very important, even critical for certain fights. In 1.0, latency was a factor that those in Europe and Eastern North America couldn't overcome because the laws of physics wouldn't let them (light can only travel so fast, and server-side verification demanded a few global round trips). This is why there are servers in Montreal.


So you're saying because the game isn't "real time" it has a natural latency anyways which doesn't benefit from a lower ping. I'm more intrigued about what changed between 1.0 and ARR. The data sent from the servers doesn't really use much bandwidth since the client is handling that on their platform. If FFXIV was streaming everything, that would be different.



Pretty much everything, the game was completely rebuilt.
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#32 Jul 30 2013 at 3:18 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
[quote=Hyanmen]
It's interesting to note that I just tested a few NA servers and a couple JP servers. The ping was averaging 33ms on NA servers and 188ms on JP servers for me. The Euro servers are pinging 36ms for me too. So like I stated in my previous post, there will be a penalty of latency if you decide to play on a JP server. Regardless if you think it's minor or not, it's real. I'm going to assume the delay will increase as the servers are mostly in testing mode. I can't elaborate past that for now.


The Euro servers have same ping as NA because it is the same data center, which is why it is called NA/EU, meaning EU players will be getting screwed.
#33 Jul 30 2013 at 5:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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I imagine if it's that big of a deal after launch then they may start an EU data center, I'm sure it's not impossible.
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#34 Jul 30 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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http://inzoum.com/storage/ffxiv/AoE_Changes.jpg

For those that learn by seeing and not reading (adjustments to detection on hit changes).
#35 Jul 30 2013 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Atkascha wrote:
^ Probably because the game is still in beta...? You being 30ft outside of a circle likely had to do with severe lag. I remember doing a guildleve and being obscenely far from the circle and getting hit. Lag spikes everywhere. It's nice to know that our character won't have a circle anymore, just a set point in the center for the server to check our position.

Sorry buddy I have been around for way to long to fall for the beta excuse anymore. Trust me they wouldn't keep a game like that b.c it is "beta"
#36 Jul 30 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
I imagine if it's that big of a deal after launch then they may start an EU data center, I'm sure it's not impossible.


It's not, in SW:TOR this had actually happened for the Oceanic players of AU / NZ, they opened them about 3 months after launch if I remember correctly...

Then again, they also shut them down a year later, probably because nobody continue playing enough to warrant an AU / NZ deployment anymore.

I suppose that numbers, numbers, numbers will be all that counts for SE and ARR. If they see enough population able to warrant even a small investment in a European location, I suppose they could do it. After all SE Europe is a tangible entity and does have very physical offices in London, UK.

UK is one of the "good" countries to manage a datacenter from.
#37 Jul 30 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Viertel wrote:
http://inzoum.com/storage/ffxiv/AoE_Changes.jpg

For those that learn by seeing and not reading (adjustments to detection on hit changes).


Awesome, thanks for posting! Smiley: thumbsup
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#38 Jul 30 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Viertel wrote:
http://inzoum.com/storage/ffxiv/AoE_Changes.jpg

For those that learn by seeing and not reading (adjustments to detection on hit changes).


Awesome, thanks for posting! Smiley: thumbsup


Yes, this makes a lot more sense to me!

Also I'm glad that this is being addressed and taken care of.

I wonder if we will be able to jump out of the AoE circle now? I'm guessing we will.
#39 Jul 30 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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Kierk wrote:
Wint wrote:
Viertel wrote:
http://inzoum.com/storage/ffxiv/AoE_Changes.jpg

For those that learn by seeing and not reading (adjustments to detection on hit changes).


Awesome, thanks for posting! Smiley: thumbsup


Yes, this makes a lot more sense to me!

Also I'm glad that this is being addressed and taken care of.

I wonder if we will be able to jump out of the AoE circle now? I'm guessing we will.


I expect that they don't update your position in mid jump, since you can't change direction or speed until you land. As such, it might not be safe to jump out of AoEs. That's how it has been in most MMOs I've played. Faster route from an AoE is to run out without jumping.
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#40 Jul 30 2013 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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Hah. If that's the case, you get to laugh at people who like to spam jump everywhere while moving if they keep getting BBQ'd.
#41 Jul 30 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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Grandmomma wrote:
Hmmm, he didn't mention the chat delay (9 seconds for me), but I am hopefull that since they are addressing delays, that will be included.

Cheers!


I'm curious as to what system you play on, and what video settings you're running. Other people complained of the same problem, and by changing a few of their settings, they realized they did not have a full view of their chat window, leading to the illusion of a laggy chat window.
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#42 Jul 30 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks Viertel! I hope you don't mind if I upload that picture into this thread. The more people who see this the better!

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 5:19pm by Gnu
#43 Jul 30 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Viertel wrote:
http://inzoum.com/storage/ffxiv/AoE_Changes.jpg

For those that learn by seeing and not reading (adjustments to detection on hit changes).


Screenshot


I was absolutely that Lalafell that looks like he is not in the circle but really was.

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 5:14pm by Gnu

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 5:18pm by Gnu
#44 Jul 30 2013 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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Mopdaddy wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
^ Probably because the game is still in beta...? You being 30ft outside of a circle likely had to do with severe lag. I remember doing a guildleve and being obscenely far from the circle and getting hit. Lag spikes everywhere. It's nice to know that our character won't have a circle anymore, just a set point in the center for the server to check our position.

Sorry buddy I have been around for way to long to fall for the beta excuse anymore. Trust me they wouldn't keep a game like that b.c it is "beta"


One purpose of the beta test was to, on purpose, push the servers to capacity for stress testing. The terrible lag that happens from time to time is a symptom of that. If you trust that S-E has learned from their mistakes, then it's not an excuse. I don't see why you'd still be around otherwise.
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#45 Jul 30 2013 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, that picture sums up my issues with responsiveness perfectly in phase 3. I noticed that if I continued to move my character even farther from the AoE circle, I wouldn't get hit. If I stayed just outside it, thinking I was safe, chances are I actually wasn't.
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#46 Jul 30 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
Thanks Viertel! I hope you don't mind if I upload that picture into this thread. The more people who see this the better!


Not mine. Found and figured a visual representation would help some people see what Yoshi-P was talking about easier.

KarlHungis wrote:
I expect that they don't update your position in mid jump, since you can't change direction or speed until you land. As such, it might not be safe to jump out of AoEs. That's how it has been in most MMOs I've played. Faster route from an AoE is to run out without jumping.


Yeah, most MMOs that utilize jump assign it a visual representation only. You're essentially teleporting to the X,Y,Z coordinates of where and when you end up at the end of the jump. If you're still mid-jump during the calculation in a damage effect you get hit because according to the server you're still in the original position because you haven't landed yet.
#47 Jul 30 2013 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Viertel wrote:


Yeah, most MMOs that utilize jump assign it a visual representation only. You're essentially teleporting to the X,Y,Z coordinates of where and when you end up at the end of the jump. If you're still mid-jump during the calculation in a damage effect you get hit because according to the server you're still in the original position because you haven't landed yet.


I have a feeling this is what will kill me most. Jumping around thinking it will save me when I'm just dooming myself to a quick death.
#48 Jul 30 2013 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Thankfully we people of FFXI don't know what jump is and we won't have that disadvantage.

At any rate, that picture helped me understand it more... thanks!
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#49 Jul 30 2013 at 10:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Stilivan wrote:
Thankfully we people of FFXI don't know what jump is and we won't have that disadvantage.

It's that Dragoon ability, right?
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#51 Jul 31 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Knock off the racial epithets. You may not think its offensive, but it is and I won't tolerate it. You may refer to Japanese as JP, or Japanese, your term is rooted in bigotry.

This goes for everyone here, any other term than the ones I've referred to above are unacceptable.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 10:49am by Wint
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