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what is the point of timelimits dungeons?Follow

#1 Jul 30 2013 at 6:46 AM Rating: Decent
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What is there to gain by having a timelimit dungeon? I guess I cant like everything about a game, this is one of the very few things I can think of that I might not like in the game. I can understand if certain bosses have time limits to kill them in but I don't see the point in having 1.5 hrs to clear like a 30-45 minute dungeon run. Now im sure 80-90% of the time it wont even matter but I guarantee it will happen when groups struggle for whatever reason and especially first time tryin the dungeon an final bosses etc etc. Through in afks or link deads or just tryin to learn the fight and maybe some people aren't very good u get stuck grouping with. So its possible to waste 1.5hr and don't fnish the dungeon? Seems little harsh. And Yea I was one that hated timelimit bcnm from XI.

Im fine with having solo dungeon/quest time limits since your depending on yourself, but to have to rely on 3-7 other ppl (especially if theres a timelimit on a 24man ugh!) just seems pointless since its only a negative and nothing to gain by having the timelimit. I don't see how starting over an running another 40 minutes to get to the boss is considered fun.

I just don't see the point? id rather try 20 times on a boss an learn some strats while wiping rather than get like 5 trys and time runs out and u have to start all over and take another 45 minutes just to get back there. Never played so yes im assuming that once time runs out that it kicks you out of the dungeon??

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 8:48am by mdafurball
#2 Jul 30 2013 at 6:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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So far, in my experience, the time limits are a non-factor. Perhaps that changes in dungeons higher than level 32, but we never had any issues clearing them with plenty of time to spare.
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#3 Jul 30 2013 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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I imagine they exist to provide a challenge when increasing the difficulty level. The 90 minute timer is not an issue when going in on normal mode, but how about when you want to go in on extreme for some epic loot? Just a guess.
#4 Jul 30 2013 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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It starts to present a challenge when your group keeps wiping at the final boss. You continuously die, teleport back, and run to the boss area. Eventually, you'll run out of time. With the timer, it gives a "better luck next time" message, to prevent unlimited retries. The Toto-Rak final boss can be difficult without proper communication. I had a poor group that wiped a few times, but we still had about 40 minutes left when we finally cleared the dungeon. That time remaining will be much less in a higher level dungeon if the same thing happens.
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#5 Jul 30 2013 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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im guessing the same as above... when your able to select the difficulty on the dungeon i think it will play more of a factor and im sure the higher lvl you are the more it will matter as well... however as Wint stated ive not haat all with the time so far unless i was with just plan horrible players in which case it took a tole on us and to be honest makes me quiet happy... if your not doing to well in a dungeon over and over again i think that time limit should be able to hold you back from moving forward untill you can figure it all out and maybe learn something in the long run... i cant stand high lvl idiots... IMO
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#6 Jul 30 2013 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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It also deters people from going AFK whilst in the dungeon.
#7 Jul 30 2013 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Atkascha wrote:
It starts to present a challenge when your group keeps wiping at the final boss. You continuously die, teleport back, and run to the boss area. Eventually, you'll run out of time. With the timer, it gives a "better luck next time" message, to prevent unlimited retries. The Toto-Rak final boss can be difficult without proper communication. I had a poor group that wiped a few times, but we still had about 40 minutes left when we finally cleared the dungeon. That time remaining will be much less in a higher level dungeon if the same thing happens.


Oh yeah, I forgot about TTR and that awful slime that slows you down as you run back to the boss Smiley: mad
#8 Jul 30 2013 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Adzieboy wrote:
It also deters people from going AFK whilst in the dungeon.


This is a good point, keeps people focused.
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#9 Jul 30 2013 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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Wow I didn't realize they had done this... I hope it's not game breaking, so far they seem to be doing a great job. I haven't run up against this yet, so here's hoping it turns out okay!

At any rate it sounds nowhere near as bad as the debacle that was 1.0, I was reading an article on just how awful 1.0 really was... wow. I trust Yoshi did not make it a real hindrance, and if so then he would change it to make it better.

Smiley: smile

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 9:20am by Hairspray
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#10 Jul 30 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:
Wow I didn't realize they had done this... I hope it's not game breaking, so far they seem to be doing a great job. I haven't run up against this yet, so here's hoping it turns out okay!

At any rate it sounds nowhere near as bad as the debacle that was 1.0, I was reading an article on just how awful 1.0 really was... wow. I trust Yoshi did not make it a real hindrance, and if so then he would change it to make it better.

Smiley: smile

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 9:20am by Hairspray


I have read a lot of posts complaining about how the game is "easy mode", so I imagine that many players welcome the challenges presented by the time limits. I certainly think it makes the dungeons more interesting.
#11 Jul 30 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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I believe they do this because the dungeons are all instance. In theory someone can just stand in the dungeon for as long as they want and keep the instance open (without a timer). This of course requires resources on the servers, i imagine they can only have a finite number of instances opened at one time. If this is the case, imagine people in multiple dungeons going afk for a long period of time or just staying inside for some other reason. This would have an impact on everyone else trying to run them.
#12 Jul 30 2013 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I thought they added the timers so that people cant just sit in the instance and use a server up for no reason. If anyone can remember the lines for the main story quests it kinda works like that.

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Quote Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida View Post
Originally, the instanced raid time limits were extremely important for managing the number of instances being created in version 1.0; however, with FFXIV: A Realm Reborn's server structure, besides problems with instances being occupied, there are almost no downsides involved. Due to this, we are looking into extending the time limits or getting rid of them completely as long as it doesn't affect strategy.
#13 Jul 30 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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Seems to me that its almost like FFXIs BCNM and what not, which actually present a challenge but its interesting and i'm sure it will add a new challenge when going through dungeons
#14 Jul 30 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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Nombra wrote:
Seems to me that its almost like FFXIs BCNM and what not, which actually present a challenge but its interesting and i'm sure it will add a new challenge when going through dungeons


Wow, BCNM... it's been a long time since I saw that term... how about KSNM's... haha... I wouldn't mind having a similar system in ARR.. those were actually very fun.
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#15 Jul 30 2013 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, during Phase 1 and 2, when the time limit was 60 minutes, it was actually hard to complete a few dungeons if you kept dying to the boss. I failed a few runs in the starter dungeon and even more in Tam-Tara.

But.. then they added 30 minutes and we never failed in P3.. But.. we'll see. I know they eliminated speed runs, and that was the reason for the timer previously. Complete it within a certain time and more chests appeared at the end.
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#16 Jul 30 2013 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
I know they eliminated speed runs, and that was the reason for the timer previously. Complete it within a certain time and more chests appeared at the end.


Now *that* I would like to see return and stick around. With the all-in-one character system like FFXI it's a good way to put in a "time limit" that's not as pressing to the common player (and MMO newcomer that's still learning) but provides incentive to the more experience crowd to push their limits.

The potential of getting two chests if completing the instances within X minutes certainly would going through a place (or places) less mind numbing if there's a chance of getting an extra reward on your 30th+ clear.
#17 Jul 30 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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The timer makes sense if clearing the dungeon gives you more rewards, but I can see how it can be an issue with Duty Finder and people being new in dungeons... maybe they should only implement the speed runs in non-story dungeons and hard mode dungeons, that way new people aren't getting shafted.
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#18 Jul 30 2013 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Stilivan wrote:
The timer makes sense if clearing the dungeon gives you more rewards, but I can see how it can be an issue with Duty Finder and people being new in dungeons... maybe they should only implement the speed runs in non-story dungeons and hard mode dungeons, that way new people aren't getting shafted.


90 min is long enough to finish anything.. Most raids only lasted 2 hours in other MMO's and personally if im there for over an hour than maybe my group cant work well together to get this done.

Other than freeing up the servers it gives people a time when they know they can be for sure done. Also helps from people going afk to much. Things happen and people gotta go afk.. but other games people are like "ok brb gonna go for a smoke" right when they get in.. uhg I hated that.


Edited, Jul 30th 2013 11:32am by silverhope
#19 Jul 30 2013 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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At least on the bright side, if you are kicked out by the dungeon, you know you probably need repairs at that point...
#20 Jul 30 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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silverhope wrote:
Stilivan wrote:
The timer makes sense if clearing the dungeon gives you more rewards, but I can see how it can be an issue with Duty Finder and people being new in dungeons... maybe they should only implement the speed runs in non-story dungeons and hard mode dungeons, that way new people aren't getting shafted.


90 min is long enough to finish anything.. Most raids only lasted 2 hours in other MMO's and personally if im there for over an hour than maybe my group cant work well together to get this done.

Other than freeing up the servers it gives people a time when they know they can be for sure done. Also helps from people going afk to much. Things happen and people gotta go afk.. but other games people are like "ok brb gonna go for a smoke" right when they get in.. uhg I hated that.


Edited, Jul 30th 2013 11:32am by silverhope


I'm not sure if you understood what I meant, and it's probably because I wasn't very good at communicating my thoughts. So let me try again.

If people are using Duty Finder to find groups to do speed run with, and they run into a new player, they may just kick that person or leave to find a new group. This can be an issue if the option for a speed-run can happen during content that is required to do for the story. So to make it a non-issue, speed runs shouldn't be in required content, but rather only the extra content.
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#21 Jul 30 2013 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Adzieboy wrote:
It also deters people from going AFK whilst in the dungeon.


This is a good point, keeps people focused.


Also, those irritating lobbies one players is just sitting AFK, will eventually close themselves down.

When you have the option to "Join Party in Progress", you have to address the possibility that some dungeons/instances will not be completable for some reason. Having the dungeon/instance eventually just shut down keeps that lobby from being a persistent irritation for people willing to join in the middle of runs.

On a related note, I'm curious if FFXIV will use vote-kick. There are a lot of +/- to that system. Also, the feature of being able to re-queue for a specific role mid-dungeon is very helpful.

Lastly, if your party just does not have what it takes to complete the dungeon, players who are not willing to abandon the party will not be stuck banging their head against a wall for hours on end.



#22 Jul 30 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Stilivan wrote:


I'm not sure if you understood what I meant, and it's probably because I wasn't very good at communicating my thoughts. So let me try again.

If people are using Duty Finder to find groups to do speed run with, and they run into a new player, they may just kick that person or leave to find a new group. This can be an issue if the option for a speed-run can happen during content that is required to do for the story. So to make it a non-issue, speed runs shouldn't be in required content, but rather only the extra content.



There are no speed runs well no need to blitz them. No extra loot. So if some "know it alls" wanna run an instance fast so be it just follow them and do what you can. This is a good way to learn if people are carrying you threw. Im not sure where you herd about speed runs being in the game . they used to be in 1.0.
#23 Jul 30 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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Stilivan wrote:
silverhope wrote:
Stilivan wrote:
The timer makes sense if clearing the dungeon gives you more rewards, but I can see how it can be an issue with Duty Finder and people being new in dungeons... maybe they should only implement the speed runs in non-story dungeons and hard mode dungeons, that way new people aren't getting shafted.


90 min is long enough to finish anything.. Most raids only lasted 2 hours in other MMO's and personally if im there for over an hour than maybe my group cant work well together to get this done.

Other than freeing up the servers it gives people a time when they know they can be for sure done. Also helps from people going afk to much. Things happen and people gotta go afk.. but other games people are like "ok brb gonna go for a smoke" right when they get in.. uhg I hated that.


Edited, Jul 30th 2013 11:32am by silverhope


I'm not sure if you understood what I meant, and it's probably because I wasn't very good at communicating my thoughts. So let me try again.

If people are using Duty Finder to find groups to do speed run with, and they run into a new player, they may just kick that person or leave to find a new group. This can be an issue if the option for a speed-run can happen during content that is required to do for the story. So to make it a non-issue, speed runs shouldn't be in required content, but rather only the extra content.


I thought they were going to make it so that you can't kick a player unless they're already disconnected?
#24 Jul 30 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:
Stilivan wrote:


I'm not sure if you understood what I meant, and it's probably because I wasn't very good at communicating my thoughts. So let me try again.

If people are using Duty Finder to find groups to do speed run with, and they run into a new player, they may just kick that person or leave to find a new group. This can be an issue if the option for a speed-run can happen during content that is required to do for the story. So to make it a non-issue, speed runs shouldn't be in required content, but rather only the extra content.



There are no speed runs well no need to blitz them. No extra loot. So if some "know it alls" wanna run an instance fast so be it just follow them and do what you can. This is a good way to learn if people are carrying you threw. Im not sure where you herd about speed runs being in the game . they used to be in 1.0.


They were only discussing about it a few posts above mine... Smiley: dubious


Quote:
I thought they were going to make it so that you can't kick a player unless they're already disconnected?


Did they? That still doesn't stop people from leaving to find other groups. What's the rule if you make a three person group and you use Duty Finder to fill in the last hole?

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 12:36pm by Stilivan
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#25 Jul 30 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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Stilivan wrote:

[...]
Did they? That still doesn't stop people from leaving to find other groups. What's the rule if you make a three person group and you use Duty Finder to fill in the last hole?

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 12:36pm by Stilivan


Not sure what you're asking on that. I know Duty Finder has a check box option to join groups in progress, so if someone leaves the group, it can still be filled. Or did you mean something else?
#26 Jul 30 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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Stilivan wrote:


They were only discussing about it a few posts above mine... Smiley: dubious



heh yea but about how it used to be in 1.0 its no longer in the game
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