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#27 Jul 31 2013 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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This is what gets me about F2P models and why I prefer P2P models. I just don't care about Cash Shops, so why do people want to stuff it down my throat when I'm completely willing to give my money to developers just to support them? They don't need to set up a market in their own game, just keep churning out that content and we're cool.


If the system is well-designed, cash shop participation is optional.

Rift is a great example of this. Their f2p switch is almost a b2p switch (like gw2) when you consider that buying the game box gets you most of your bag slots (same number of bag slots you'd have had under their sub model) and all your character slots. Their other cash shop items are entirely optional and are mostly cosmetic.

So under those circumstances (and Rift isn't the only one), why does the presence of a cash shop affect you in any way? Because you seem to be saying that the cash shop existing at all is ruining your experience when it can be completely ignored.
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#28 Jul 31 2013 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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The F2P argument will stick around until the game launches, and will probably only go away if the game is fairly successful. You should have been here about January, we had some rip roarin' threads on the subject.

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#29 Jul 31 2013 at 6:56 AM Rating: Default
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i wouldnt have checked the forums for months at a time because of it Wint... i think its kinda redundant! noone or rather I could care less about why anyone would think this game should be on a F2P or P2P bases... its been stated that its never going F2P so why talk about it at all? its not happeneing and thats from the man in charge....

If you want to play a game thats F2P go join in Maplestory i hear its still full of little children that wana ***** about anything and everything...
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#30 Jul 31 2013 at 7:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mmoderator wrote:
i wouldnt have checked the forums for months at a time because of it Wint... i think its kinda redundant! noone or rather I could care less about why anyone would think this game should be on a F2P or P2P bases... its been stated that its never going F2P so why talk about it at all? its not happeneing and thats from the man in charge....

If you want to play a game thats F2P go join in Maplestory i hear its still full of little children that wana ***** about anything and everything...


I'm just saying, if you think this is bad (regarding the amount of F2P discussion) then you haven't seen anything Smiley: tongue

As a mod, I'm just praying for Phase 4 because you guys seem to get all cranky when you don't have an FFXIV to play Smiley: laugh
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#31 Jul 31 2013 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
The F2P argument will stick around until the game launches, and will probably only go away if the game is fairly successful. You should have been here about January, we had some rip roarin' threads on the subject.



This argument raged on for about 6 or 7 months straight after DCUO first launched... and I thought for sure they would just stay subscription based... but they went F2P because ultimately it was the market that demanded it. I hope this game does not go F2P, but if it did it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Subscribers still get perks that freebies don't get, like unlimited access to all expansions/DLC content, unlimited access to in-game money, and other perks that made it worthwhile to subscribe... so a large portion of their player base remains paid subscriptions. I was a paid subscriber until last month when Beta 3 started for me.

People who brought up the F2P argument would get bashed on their forums too... but eventually it was clear they were correct in that particular instance. Not saying it will happen to FFXIV, but ultimately they will make the decision that makes the best financial sense for them. They may be forced to accept the F2P model as DCUO was. We don't know yet.

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#32 Jul 31 2013 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
So under those circumstances (and Rift isn't the only one), why does the presence of a cash shop affect you in any way? Because you seem to be saying that the cash shop existing at all is ruining your experience when it can be completely ignored.


I'll rephrase.

I treat Cash Shops like DLC. If it's not in your game at the beginning, then I expect the game to be enjoyable without it. Many people think differently on this, that buying from the Cash Shop enhances their enjoyment out of the game (which is why I said "Maybe if I bought from the Cash Shop I would enjoy it more"). I just don't work like this. I have to enjoy the game first if I want to buy anything out of it. I played a number of F2P games, like TERA, Neverwinter, Aion, etc. None of them stuck with me. I might've stuck with SWTOR when it went F2P, but my server was a ghost town when Bioware did the Welcome Back campaign.

All I'm saying is the very philosophy of Cash Shops doesn't work with me, and I prefer for Square Enix to not figure out ways for me to give them money when I'm willing to just hand it over for their service. I'd rather make a financial investment, rather than go on a pleasure spree every once in awhile.
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#33 Jul 31 2013 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
As a mod, I'm just praying for Phase 4 because you guys seem to get all cranky when you don't have an FFXIV to play Smiley: laugh


Love this, and its so true. Everyone is trying to find ways to spend their time while they patiently... or not so patiently await the reopening of the servers. Some people seem to thrive in drama, we even had some Trolls on Leviathan that spent half the beta creating drama in Central Shroud.

At least we should get stated a bit tomorrow when the Character Creator benchmark is released. It won't necessarily keep everyone occupied until the live letter but it should help lol.
#34 Jul 31 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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Deleted because I rather believe there will be no xtra change for ps4 mmo ffxiv.




Edited, Jul 31st 2013 12:40pm by Grandmomma
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#35 Jul 31 2013 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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I could have sworn I read somewhere Plus wouldn't be required for XIV, but maybe that's just me making things up. I think Plus is totally worth the money however, so at least you get more than online access for your dollar.
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#36 Jul 31 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere Plus wouldn't be required for XIV, but maybe that's just me making things up. I think Plus is totally worth the money however, so at least you get more than online access for your dollar.


You are right.


Edited, Jul 31st 2013 12:40pm by Grandmomma
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#37 Jul 31 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere Plus wouldn't be required for XIV, but maybe that's just me making things up.
Sounds like it was, at least in part, Square's decision.
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#38 Jul 31 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere Plus wouldn't be required for XIV, but maybe that's just me making things up. I think Plus is totally worth the money however, so at least you get more than online access for your dollar.


Quote:

Sony has confirmed that not every multiplayer game for the PlayStation 4 will require PlayStation Plus, as publishers will be able to decide what happens with free-to-play titles.

In an interview with Polygon, SCE Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida confirmed that this would be the case before revealing that Sony Online Entertainment has already decided its MMOs won't require players to have a PS Plus subscription.

"As far as free-to-play games are concerned, it’s a publisher’s decision whether they put it inside or outside of the PlayStation Plus requirements," he said.


http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/ps4-publishers-decide-if-free-to-play-needs-ps-plus
#39 Jul 31 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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silverhope wrote:
Wint wrote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere Plus wouldn't be required for XIV, but maybe that's just me making things up. I think Plus is totally worth the money however, so at least you get more than online access for your dollar.


Quote:

Sony has confirmed that not every multiplayer game for the PlayStation 4 will require PlayStation Plus, as publishers will be able to decide what happens with free-to-play titles.

In an interview with Polygon, SCE Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida confirmed that this would be the case before revealing that Sony Online Entertainment has already decided its MMOs won't require players to have a PS Plus subscription.

"As far as free-to-play games are concerned, it’s a publisher’s decision whether they put it inside or outside of the PlayStation Plus requirements," he said.


http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/ps4-publishers-decide-if-free-to-play-needs-ps-plus


That's Sony Online Entertainment, not SquareEnix...
SOE makes DC Universe for the PS3, which up until this release was the only MMO on the PS3.
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#40 Jul 31 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Yea but its the onyl thing I could find. I think i read somewehre that yoshi said that you wont need PSN. Why charge PS people more than PC that would hurt the game more than help.
#41 Jul 31 2013 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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silverhope wrote:
Wint wrote:
I could have sworn I read somewhere Plus wouldn't be required for XIV, but maybe that's just me making things up. I think Plus is totally worth the money however, so at least you get more than online access for your dollar.


Quote:

Sony has confirmed that not every multiplayer game for the PlayStation 4 will require PlayStation Plus, as publishers will be able to decide what happens with free-to-play titles.

In an interview with Polygon, SCE Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida confirmed that this would be the case before revealing that Sony Online Entertainment has already decided its MMOs won't require players to have a PS Plus subscription.

"As far as free-to-play games are concerned, it’s a publisher’s decision whether they put it inside or outside of the PlayStation Plus requirements," he said.


http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/ps4-publishers-decide-if-free-to-play-needs-ps-plus



Man thats good to hear.
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#42 Jul 31 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
The problem with F2P is that the business model puts content behind a microtransaction pay wall.

Old-school gamers like me would rather just pay a subscription to access all of that content without the wall. I think it's silly that people can just buy things from a cash shop, rather than accomplish goals in the game to get those items.

As another poster said... if SE keeps churning out new content for us to enjoy, then we're good.
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#43 Jul 31 2013 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I cringe every time he says "X-I-V", I would prefer they just say fourteen.

Edited, Aug 1st 2013 1:33am by Jeraziah
#44 Jul 31 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Jeraziah wrote:
I gringe every time he says "X-I-V", I would prefer they just say fourteen.


They talked about that for a while.. it's kinda lose-lose unless they can come up with a name for the show that doesn't reference the number. I'll admit that I, personally, read it as X-I-V when reading the name of the game. While I (of course) understand the roman numeral, it's reaching the point where my brain has an easier time just reading the letters than it does converting it into a number.

Maybe they could call it Arcanist's Anonymous instead.
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#45 Jul 31 2013 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Wonder what happened to Kenzie?
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#46 Jul 31 2013 at 9:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Great podcast. I think that's something I could listen to every week.
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#47 Jul 31 2013 at 10:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Jeraziah wrote:
I gringe every time he says "X-I-V", I would prefer they just say fourteen.


They talked about that for a while.. it's kinda lose-lose unless they can come up with a name for the show that doesn't reference the number. I'll admit that I, personally, read it as X-I-V when reading the name of the game. While I (of course) understand the roman numeral, it's reaching the point where my brain has an easier time just reading the letters than it does converting it into a number.

Maybe they could call it Arcanist's Anonymous instead.

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#48 Jul 31 2013 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Jeraziah wrote:
I gringe every time he says "X-I-V", I would prefer they just say fourteen.


XIV was the name of their original show before they cancelled it. Probably just keeping it the same for the sake of continuity.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#49 Jul 31 2013 at 10:55 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Wonder what happened to Kenzie?


yeah...she wasn't very good at hosting....but i really enjoyed the dynamic between her (optimistic and somewhat naive fangirl) and gary (realist who really wanted to love the game but couldn't ignore the writing on the wall). it made for good tv even though she didn't really have what it took to be a good host.

fourteen sounds really silly imo. XIV sounds better. either way they won't be changing it. i'm not sure what all the fuss is about that. the people in the chat room harping on it were really annoying.
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#50 Jul 31 2013 at 10:59 PM Rating: Default
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I gringe every time he says "X-I-V"


I believe the word you're looking for is "cringe"
#51 Jul 31 2013 at 11:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Stilivan wrote:





As I said above, what happens after the business model change is up to fate. Didn't DCUO start out F2P...? Saying any game that's F2P is bad and is a failure was not was I implying, rather the need to change models does indicate some sort of failure. In FFXIV's case, Yoshi specifically said he wants a subscription model, that is his goal, that's the future he sees with FFXIV. If he has a need to switch to F2P, does that still say success? Again, what happens after that is irrelevant.




nah DCUO started out as P2P.


ScrapTower wrote:
You're right in that it really just depends on your definition of "successful game". If the initial box sales, subscription fees, and later cash shop revenue is enough to pay off your investors, then the servers will keep running. That's a relatively cheap bill to pay. I personally would not call that a success. A game is successful IMO after it's been around for many years and actually generates enough revenue to create significant amounts of quality new content.



Stilivan wrote:

As stated above, success is objective. You can be successful without the most awesome amount of cash inflow etc etc. There isn't just one definition for success.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 7:06am by Stilivan


You just said that success is objective, and then you said that it is subjective in the next sentence. Which is it? Scraptower most definitely thinks that its subjective. I'm quite certain that it isn't, at least not in the context of business.
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