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[Poll] Should Dragoon have a pet wyvern in ARR?Follow

#1 Jul 31 2013 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was wondering if this has been answered yet... and what everybody's opinions were about why they would (or would not) like to have wyverns in FFXIV: ARR.

Do you want DRG to have a Wyvern pet in ARR?
Yes :68 (54.0%)
No:58 (46.0%)
Total:126
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#2 Jul 31 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I voted Yes... I actually would love to see Wyvern's in ARR... but mainly because it's cool, I mean who wouldn't want to have a pet Wyvern?

Now I realize there are some downsides to having a pet wyvern too... What reasons do you have for why you voted the way you did?
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#3 Jul 31 2013 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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The synergy between the Dragoon and his/her wyvern was one of the coolest concepts in FFXI. They shouldn't have done away with it.
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#4 Jul 31 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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Transmigration wrote:
The synergy between the Dragoon and his/her wyvern was one of the coolest concepts in FFXI. They shouldn't have done away with it.


So are you saying that they definitely will not have Wyverns?

I was unaware of that... I hope they'll reconsider.
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#5 Jul 31 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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I voted No for a couple reasons:

1. I think DRG wyverns should remain exclusive to XI. We don't need to see them shoehorned into XIV just because XI has them.

1a. XI is the only Final Fantasy title where DRG had a pet wyvern. No other FF game has a Dragoon/Lancer class with pets.

2. I think DRG (as an advanced job for LNC) has enough to worry about with positioning and dealing damage that a wyvern would just get in the way.
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#6 Jul 31 2013 at 11:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wyverns for Dragoons should just be a FFXI thing. I voted no.

It seems they're going for more of a FFIV approach to Dragoon with emphasis on the actual attacks and being the spike damage dealer without worrying about pets or adjusting them to fit. Arcanist/Scholar/Summoner is going to be the pet class if you would like to play that.



Edited, Jul 31st 2013 10:14am by UltKnightGrover
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#7 Jul 31 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
It won't kill me if it doesn't ever happen, but I have fond memories of my wyvern Oboro and the adventures we shared. I think it would have happened before now if it was going to be implemented.

It would give the job DRG something snazzy to separate it from lancer though(aside from just different attacks). Just thinking out loud.
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#8 Jul 31 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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The DRG Wyvern in FFXI also operated mainly on the subjob of its owner. FFXIV would have to have completely new system for that because of the lack of such, not to mention that Wyverns would need to be better AI when it comes to not stupidly dying in things like primal battles and dungeon runs.
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#9 Jul 31 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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I always thought the pair was kind of weird. A Dragoon uses aerial combat to kill dragons. A wyvern is a dragon isn't it?

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 1:39pm by ScrapTower
#10 Jul 31 2013 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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ScrapTower wrote:
A wyvern is a dragon isn't it?
Depends on what source you're referring to. Generally:

Dragon: European four legs + two wings. These are the older among their fellows, going all the way down to the youngest (whelps). They are large, cunning, greedy, and generally malevolent (though there are a few good ones).

Drake: A younger dragon, consider it the teenage version of a dragon. Still hasn't found a stronghold yet, so it wanders the wilderness in search of a good place to roost and of course mates. Not as intelligence as the dragons, but a few already show the signs of being like their older cousins.

Wyrm: An eastern style serpentine dragon, the oldest form of this type of dragon. Can be aquatic if necessary. Smarter than Dragons, and more benevolent. Trend towards Neutral alignments.

Wyvern: It only has two legs, the other two are actually wings. More primitive and stupid than dragons and wyrms, though they can be just as destructive.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 1:49pm by lolgaxe
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#11 Jul 31 2013 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
Mostly I'm waiting and hoping for DRK to become available with the pet: Big Honking Scythe.
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#12 Jul 31 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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I voted no as well... reason being i to think it should stay exclusive to XI considering no other FF has done this before... it was a cool concept for the DRG in XI but i think it needs to stay where it was created... mainly for the creators piece of mind ;P
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#13 Jul 31 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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Nice Concept. But just put it as an in game Minion.
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#14 Jul 31 2013 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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I voted yes because of the fond memories of days gone past where me and my wyvern had many adventures together when I wasn't playing as a WHM. On the flip side, I do understand the point of veiw of the people who point out that the only game dragoons have ever had them was FFXI. That doesn't change the fact that I would like to have one again.
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#15 Jul 31 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I definitely hope so, I Loved my Wyvern in FFXI. What's a Dragoon without a dragon?
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#16 Jul 31 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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CaptainTowers wrote:
Nice Concept. But just put it as an in game Minion.


I also voted no. I feel that having a Wyvern would then make DRG overall performance be based around the fact that its always available.

Also the above quote I think is the coolest way to handle the idea. :)
#17 Jul 31 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lorielll wrote:
What's a Dragoon without a dragon?
Ricard, Kain, Cid, Ward, Freya, Kimahri, and Fang?
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#18 Jul 31 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Lorielll wrote:
What's a Dragoon without a dragon?
Ricard, Kain, Cid, Ward, Freya, Kimahri, and Fang?


If we're going the literal approach... an "o".
#19 Jul 31 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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I voted YES to DRG's having a wyvern pet, but that doesn't mean SE has to ***** up game balance here. Let the wyvern be a vanity pet that mimics the DRG. We already have these vanity pets anyways, so where's the harm.
#20 Jul 31 2013 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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Be careful, you keep asking for a pet and they will give you a literal, "pet" and not a death bringing dragon to fight by your side.
#21 Jul 31 2013 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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Pet jobs and myself tend not to jive. In XI's case for DRG, the wyvern had its issue in dying a lot and, short of times where you could get away with healing breath spam, was probably the weakest of the actual pets. And that last point tends to segue into my frustration toward pet jobs as often the masters aren't pleased in the balance department until they're practically running around as two fully powered PCs. It's an issue I just feel better avoided despite XI's "unique" take on DRG. So, a no vote from me. :(
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#22 Jul 31 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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I loved soloing with DRG and my wyvern in FFXI.

Ironically soloing against single mobs for XP in ARR is really less efficient than it was in FFXI, so, the wyvern kinda loses its luster there.

And in PTs, the wyvern did die a lot by AoEs and adds. It did add some nice DoT but parties didn't really "see" that.

So although I'd love to have a wyvern for nostalgia's sake (and uniqueness), I can see that it's just not necessary.

---

In the end, DRG still has jump (which is more important) and personally DRG is my 2nd or 3rd favorite class, behind THF or NIN so there's that. :)
#23 Jul 31 2013 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
And that last point tends to segue into my frustration toward pet jobs as often the masters aren't pleased in the balance department until they're practically running around as two fully powered PCs. It's an issue I just feel better avoided despite XI's "unique" take on DRG. So, a no vote from me. :(


Would you be cool with a vanity pet that mimics the look of the wyvern, but doesn't ruin the balance of the class? Considering all I see are vanity pets roaming Phase 3, I'd be shocked to hear anyone actual disagree with me on this.
#24 Jul 31 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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I was once like you until I heard Yoshi-P's explanation.

F: really want to know this but will there be wyvern for dragoon?
Y: At overseas interview when I answered this I asked this as questions since you're having it there as a pet, we have to balance out as both set so by having a pet your main character will do lower damage and the pet also damaging.
But I understand what they mean from dragoon's poitn of view, so we're looking to stuff like being able to jump and when coming down calling a dragon or something which will be possible with 2.0's system


Basically, do you want to deal less dmg? I like the Wyvernless drg, and I like the FFXI iteration.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 3:32pm by Louiscool
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#25 Jul 31 2013 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Seriha wrote:
And that last point tends to segue into my frustration toward pet jobs as often the masters aren't pleased in the balance department until they're practically running around as two fully powered PCs. It's an issue I just feel better avoided despite XI's "unique" take on DRG. So, a no vote from me. :(


Would you be cool with a vanity pet that mimics the look of the wyvern, but doesn't ruin the balance of the class? Considering all I see are vanity pets roaming Phase 3, I'd be shocked to hear anyone actual disagree with me on this.

Vanity is one thing. Combat capable just invites the balance nightmare.
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#26 Jul 31 2013 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Adding it as a kind of animation for a high-level skill seems OK, but the people (including me) that want it as a battle companion enjoy having it for soloing mostly.

What if you could only call it when you are soloing? It could do no/very-little damage but still act as a tank for you.
Instead of dealing damage, it could be a kind of follower that casts your self-buffs for you.

At any rate, I think this ship has sailed for FFXIV and it's just not going to be a main part of the class.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 4:55pm by Gnu
#27 Jul 31 2013 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Wyvern would be GREAT as a nostalgic minion.

Also, consider this. What about the wyvern for the Limit Break? Better than a Buster Sword.
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#28 Jul 31 2013 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Gnu wrote:
Adding it as a kind of animation for a high-level skill seems OK, but the people (including me) that want it as a battle companion enjoy having it for soloing mostly.

What if you could only call it when you are soloing? It could do no/very-little damage but still act as a tank for you.
Instead of dealing damage, it could be a kind of follower that casts your self-buffs for you.

At any rate, I think this ship has sailed for FFXIV and it's just not going to be a main part of the class.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 4:55pm by Gnu


That makes me kind of sad, the wyvern was one of the main reasons I wanted to play Dragoon...
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#29 Jul 31 2013 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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I voted no because I'm not pining over the "glory days" of FFXI and I'm not disappointed that FFXIV isn't just FFXI with a new coat of paint, especially from a gameplay perspective.

I just don't see how it makes sense to give a Dragoon a wyvern in FFXIV. The AF even resembles a dragoon from FFIV that didn't have one. As it's been noted several times already no other dragoons in Final Fantasy had one so it's not a FF trope. It's exclusive to FFXI.

If they added a wyvern minion as a throwback to FFXI, that'd be fine and I'd appreciate it. But from my point of view looking for SE to copy/paste the job right out of FFXI and thinking it's a good idea is just nostalgia and is damaging to FFXIV because it's narrow minded and hinders innovation- something the game needs.

FFXIV ARR is refreshingly different in a lot of ways, and that's something I like about it. I played FFXI for many many years. I have zero desire to play a rehashed version of it. I also realize the servers are still active and if I want to revisit the feeling any of the various jobs and dungeons and content has to offer I can just boot up the game and play it. FFXIV needs its own identity, even within the FF universe. Asking for it to be just like this or that is a completely wrong mindset to be in.


Edited, Jul 31st 2013 5:22pm by reptiletim
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#30 Jul 31 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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For a special ability, absolutely. I don't want a pet dragon following me around everywhere, though.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 5:24pm by BrokenFox
#31 Jul 31 2013 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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I voted no. The entire concept of dragoon for the series has always been to go out and kill dragons. They shouldn't have them as pets. For those of us who have played 1.0, we saw that the storyline in the dragoon job quests were that we got our power from an item received after killing a dragon long ago and now we have to use that dragon power to kill more dragons. It would seem out of place in my opinion to hate dragons and then keep one as a pet.

EDIT: Corrected misspelling.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 5:32pm by swisa
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#32 Jul 31 2013 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
Adding it as a kind of animation for a high-level skill seems OK, but the people (including me) that want it as a battle companion enjoy having it for soloing mostly.

What if you could only call it when you are soloing? It could do no/very-little damage but still act as a tank for you.
Instead of dealing damage, it could be a kind of follower that casts your self-buffs for you.

At any rate, I think this ship has sailed for FFXIV and it's just not going to be a main part of the class.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 4:55pm by Gnu

I'm fine with wyvern being a battle mount or minion similar to a chocobo but not as dragoon becoming a pet class. These pets make it harder to balance jobs when they are allowed to be kept out. Not to mention if they are too viable solo that would trivialize the need for classes.

Dragoon has never had a wyvern besides in FFXI. And just because we are getting some of the jobs XI had does not make this XI-2 or mean they have to be implemented the same way. I hope whatever jobs come over from XI are done in a different way personally. I can always log into XI if I wanted the same experience.
#33 Jul 31 2013 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I said yes, simply because I miss my Gizmo, and all the fun we had skulking around & seeing what we could solo, what sort of mischief we could get up to - and getting my /sit just right (as a taru) to have me riding him!

Then again, I understand why it is not it - it would have been a pain to balance. You're either OP with it out, or UP with it dead. Plus, any mob with an AoE necessitated constant Spirit Links, which was always a potential stress on the healer.

Anyway, my birdbrain this time will be Gizmo, so I can try to re-capture the feeling ... sort of.
#34 Jul 31 2013 at 5:52 PM Rating: Good
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The wyvern gave us the ability to have a pet and a front line job. It gave people who wanted a pet a way to play without having to rely on it completely. You got to have a pet and stab things in the face. Now, I'm back to either stab something in the face, or hide in the bushes and summon something. For that reason alone I want the wyvern back.

Also, what else can a dragoon do, jump? We can all do that.

I'll miss the wyvern, play as a summoner, and move on. But there is a demand out there for a melee/pet class hybrid, and I don't know what other job can fill that role as naturally as dragoon did.
#35 Jul 31 2013 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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For nostalgic purposes, sure, I'm all for wyverns. I didn't play with DRG much in XI, only as a subjob for SAM. I wouldn't mind seeing a wyvern minion at some point.
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#36 Jul 31 2013 at 6:41 PM Rating: Good
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Summoner1980 wrote:

I'll miss the wyvern, play as a summoner, and move on. But there is a demand out there for a melee/pet class hybrid, and I don't know what other job can fill that role as naturally as dragoon did.


Beastmaster? Puppetmaster? Maybe it's because I played the other FFs first but I never thought the pet was natural for Dragoon. But that was XI's take on the job, just like SCH having a healing fairy pet is FFXIV's take on that classic job.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 5:42pm by UltKnightGrover
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#37 Jul 31 2013 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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I'm riding in the no boat here because of most of the same reasons being said.

1. FFXI has it's own unique story, let's keep that unique.
2. No other FF other than 11 has had it, so not really a trend.

However, with that said. I would be okay with having a whelpling for class quests as a non-combat pet. This pet would dialogue between the Dragoon during Class and Storyline quests. It would function as a non-combat exclusive pet to Dragoon jobs outside of quests. I think that would be a style unique to 14, and one I would hope would stay exclusive to 14 moving forward.
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#38 Jul 31 2013 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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I feel like a lot of people are saying "just because it was in xi doesn't mean it has to be in xiv", but why does that mean that it should necessarily be excluded from 14? I think wyverns are awesome pets and should be in xiv for no other reason than that.

That having been said, I don't think that drg should be the job that gets it simply because it's already an established job. Personally, I would enjoy seeing a wyvern-based job added to the lancer class.
#39 Jul 31 2013 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, XI did it's unique take on dragoon. What if there was a race and job in XIV that could change to dragons?

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gria

#40 Jul 31 2013 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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schneiderw wrote:
I feel like a lot of people are saying "just because it was in xi doesn't mean it has to be in xiv", but why does that mean that it should necessarily be excluded from 14? I think wyverns are awesome pets and should be in xiv for no other reason than that.

That having been said, I don't think that drg should be the job that gets it simply because it's already an established job. Personally, I would enjoy seeing a wyvern-based job added to the lancer class.


Simply copy and pasting a class from another game is kind of like copying Lightning from XIII and putting her in 14. It feels fake; like she/it doesn't belong. Now I am sure they can spin a story to make it work, but you have to really look at what you're asking/wanting.

Is it that you are asking for a pet class? Because everyone is getting a combat Chocobo that they can use and base its abilities off what you're lacking. Sure you'll likely be in the 30s before you unlock it, but every class will be capable of having this adventuring companion.

I'm going to assume with you want a pet based class that has a Dragon/Dragon Sub-type as a pet. The issue at hand with building a class around a pet(s) is they'll typically either be too powerful because you can funnel health into them indefinitely, or the pets die in every real fight because of positioning problems, or that their strength is greatly reduced to allow for a stronger PC with the end result being they end up useless.

I think if you're looking for a pet-based class focused around a dragon, you'd be best off building feedback towards the next expansion... You could take something new like "Child of Bahamut" and start looking at how you could make something fit in the world of 14.
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#41 Jul 31 2013 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
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desmar wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
I feel like a lot of people are saying "just because it was in xi doesn't mean it has to be in xiv", but why does that mean that it should necessarily be excluded from 14? I think wyverns are awesome pets and should be in xiv for no other reason than that.

That having been said, I don't think that drg should be the job that gets it simply because it's already an established job. Personally, I would enjoy seeing a wyvern-based job added to the lancer class.


Simply copy and pasting a class from another game is kind of like copying Lightning from XIII and putting her in 14. It feels fake; like she/it doesn't belong. Now I am sure they can spin a story to make it work, but you have to really look at what you're asking/wanting.

Is it that you are asking for a pet class? Because everyone is getting a combat Chocobo that they can use and base its abilities off what you're lacking. Sure you'll likely be in the 30s before you unlock it, but every class will be capable of having this adventuring companion.

I'm going to assume with you want a pet based class that has a Dragon/Dragon Sub-type as a pet. The issue at hand with building a class around a pet(s) is they'll typically either be too powerful because you can funnel health into them indefinitely, or the pets die in every real fight because of positioning problems, or that their strength is greatly reduced to allow for a stronger PC with the end result being they end up useless.

I think if you're looking for a pet-based class focused around a dragon, you'd be best off building feedback towards the next expansion... You could take something new like "Child of Bahamut" and start looking at how you could make something fit in the world of 14.


How is it possible that you interpreted " I think wyverns are awesome pets and should be in xiv for no other reason than that" and "I don't think that drg should be the job that gets it" as "Simply copy and pasting a class from another game" or that I am "asking for a pet class"?

Your reply and questions, while valid opinions, don't make any sense as a response to what I said.

I'm baffled.
#42 Aug 01 2013 at 2:43 AM Rating: Good
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Hah, it's 50/50 atm. I personally voted no. It was interesting in FFXI but I'm not sure it really belongs here in XIV. With all of the different roles some jobs could fill in XI, the wyvern had interesting mechanics to bring to a group. With Dragoon only being able to be a DD in XIV and elemental weaknesses missing, that severely limits the versatility of the wyvern. It would just end up as an extra generic source of damage that has to be babysat during fights and balanced as others have said.

I don't think they could do the wyvern justice in FFXIV beyond a vanity pet/mount (GROUND MOUNT...but it FLIES!...sort of..).
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#43 Aug 01 2013 at 5:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sometimes I really wish they had all new races for FFXIV and not renamed FFXI races. I mean I know they did it because they wanted to thin FFXI's audience and pull in past players to their new game and all, but now we have people wanting FFXIV to be a glorified FFXI expansion pack with HD graphics. If the two games had no ties at all I wonder if the OPs question would even be asked. I mean, I didn't play FFXII and wonder why they didn't have Blitzball in it.

Now, I'll admit this gets kind of murky with ARR because it's positioning itself to have references to past Final Fantasy games (The FF2 battle theme remix was as awesome as it was unexpected). What they need to be careful to do is to make sure the game retains its own identity, which I think so far they're doing a good job of....and no, I'm not entirely happy with Lightning making an appearance in the game like she is.
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#44 Aug 01 2013 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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DamienSScott wrote:
Hah, it's 50/50 atm. I personally voted no. It was interesting in FFXI but I'm not sure it really belongs here in XIV. With all of the different roles some jobs could fill in XI, the wyvern had interesting mechanics to bring to a group. With Dragoon only being able to be a DD in XIV and elemental weaknesses missing, that severely limits the versatility of the wyvern. It would just end up as an extra generic source of damage that has to be babysat during fights and balanced as others have said.

I don't think they could do the wyvern justice in FFXIV beyond a vanity pet/mount (GROUND MOUNT...but it FLIES!...sort of..).


Your points make a lot of sense, and I agree with them if we are talking about wyverns being added to drg, but I believe that they would become a non-issue if wyverns were brought into xiv with a new class. I think drg is wonderful as is, and shouldn't be changed to the extent that would be required if adding a wyvern; however, that doesn't make the addition of wyverns unfeasible.
#45 Aug 01 2013 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know why, but I'm very "eh" on it either way. If they came out and added it I'd be like "Oh Cool."

But I don't see it as something lacking. People quickly forget "I'm a moron" (Wow that lol drg script is still around?!) came about because your wyvern dying to AoE made you useless for 20 minutes...

edit: I meant 2 hours, it's early give me a break!

Edited, Aug 1st 2013 9:50am by Louiscool

Edited, Aug 1st 2013 11:35am by Louiscool
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#46 Aug 01 2013 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
People quickly forget "I'm a moron" (Wow that lol drg script is still around?!) came about because your wyvern dying to AoE made you useless for 20 minutes...
Two hours, and crappy skill chain placement had a hand in it.
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#47 Aug 01 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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No DRG for party.

Edit for context.

Edited, Aug 1st 2013 10:19am by ScrapTower
#48 Aug 01 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
lolgaxe wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
People quickly forget "I'm a moron" (Wow that lol drg script is still around?!) came about because your wyvern dying to AoE made you useless for 20 minutes...
Two hours, and crappy skill chain placement had a hand in it.


And piercing damage relevancy if I remember correctly before TOAU (FFXI: Colibri camp edition) was introduced. Then it went from lawlDRG to "Nerf DRG!".
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#49 Aug 01 2013 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Chialing wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
People quickly forget "I'm a moron" (Wow that lol drg script is still around?!) came about because your wyvern dying to AoE made you useless for 20 minutes...
Two hours, and crappy skill chain placement had a hand in it.


And piercing damage relevancy if I remember correctly before TOAU (FFXI: Colibri camp edition) was introduced. Then it went from lawlDRG to "Nerf DRG!".


Oh soooo true!

Don't forget to set your macro with:

/p "(Penta Thrust)(You Can Have This!) <t>" <call1>
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#50 Aug 01 2013 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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Lolibri camping
Pink bags of experience
Polearm Samurai

oops wrong thread Smiley: sly
#51 Aug 01 2013 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wow, who would have though that when we reached 100 votes it would be exactly 50/50!

Crazy!
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