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Attribute points question. Follow

#1 Jul 31 2013 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Hello everyone. Can you reset your attribute points at any point? I've noticed I wasn't able to respec my classes once I dropped my points in a particular category. I'm asking this for two reasons. MAR and ARC are two jobs I haven't figured out how I wish to utilize my points yet. I'll start with MAR first.

Obviously STR for threat factor and VIT for DEF/HP pool are the 2 prime categories for MAR. So I'd like to ask people, how did you use your points into MAR? All STR? A mixed of both?

ARC is a bit of a mystery since all we know is that PIE expands the MP pool. We don't know what modifiers such as INT or MND boost their abilities yet. I suppose we could guess that all damage abilities use INT, but I'm hoping someone else knows for sure.

Edited: The ARC I was referring to is Arcanist, not Archer. I apologize for not picking up on the fact we already use ARC for the ranged class.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 1:40pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#2 Jul 31 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't remember seeing anything in game but I hope so. I also seem to remember hearing that the points you get for each job are applied to that job.

I think MND is pure curing potency and INT is spell damage, I'll have to see if I can find that table that explains it, the manual had descriptions for all of them. As soon as I finish lunch I'll look unless someone has beaten me to it by then.
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#3 Jul 31 2013 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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Pretty sure DEX was for ranged damage. Also, there was a greyed out button in the beta to reset your stat points, I'm assuming this will be implemented for open beta/launch.
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#4 Jul 31 2013 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
ARC is a bit of a mystery since all we know is that PIE expands the MP pool. We don't know what modifiers such as INT or MND boost their abilities yet. I suppose we could guess that all damage abilities use INT, but I'm hoping someone else knows for sure.


Wouldn't it be expected that ARC would rely heavily on DEX?
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#5 Jul 31 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Hello everyone. Can you reset your attribute points at any point? I've noticed I wasn't able to respec my classes once I dropped my points in a particular category. I'm asking this for two reasons. MAR and ARC are two jobs I haven't figured out how I wish to utilize my points yet. I'll start with MAR first.

Obviously STR for threat factor and VIT for DEF/HP pool are the 2 prime categories for MAR. So I'd like to ask people, how did you use your points into MAR? All STR? A mixed of both?

ARC is a bit of a mystery since all we know is that PIE expands the MP pool. We don't know what modifiers such as INT or MND boost their abilities yet. I suppose we could guess that all damage abilities use INT, but I'm hoping someone else knows for sure.

As of phase 3, there was no way to reset your attribute points. Hopefully, that changes. For MRD, put all your points into VIT. Not only does it increase your total HP, but it also increases the amount of HP you regen. For ACN (I assume that's what you meant), I would suggest waiting to see how SMN and SCH function.

On MRD, I put my points into STR. I personally feel that it was a mistake and that VIT would have been the better option.
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#6 Jul 31 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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FrozenSherbet wrote:
On MRD, I put my points into STR. I personally feel that it was a mistake and that VIT would have been the better option.


I think it's going to depend a lot on playstyle and what you are fighting. Personally, I like STR as the better option because it increases my overall damage and allows me to hold hate better, but I'm sure there are lots of situations where going with a VIT build would be good also (anything that hits for a lot of damage at once). I'm very hopeful they allow us to reset; I can't imagine they wouldn't since they already have the option coded into the character panel.
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#7 Jul 31 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
ARC is a bit of a mystery since all we know is that PIE expands the MP pool. We don't know what modifiers such as INT or MND boost their abilities yet. I suppose we could guess that all damage abilities use INT, but I'm hoping someone else knows for sure.


Wouldn't it be expected that ARC would rely heavily on DEX?

ARC in this case may refer to Arcanist.

An archer would of course prefer dex, but an arcanist may prefer int, mnd, or possibly vit or pie, depending on how stats affect pets.
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#8 Jul 31 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bah, can't get on the beta forums from work, I forgot. Somewhere someone pasted the table of attributes and their descriptions though, I know I saw it here...
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#9 Jul 31 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ah here we go:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=137209435731041022&h=50&p=1#37

BartelX wrote:
...
Strength Increases melee attack power and the percentage of damage mitigated by block and parry.
Dexterity Increases ranged attack power and the chance of blocking or parrying an attack.
Vitality Increases maximum HP.
Intelligence Increases attack magic potency.
Mind Increases healing magic potency.
Piety Increases maximum MP.
...
Accuracy Increases the accuracy of physical and magical attacks.
Critical Hit Rate Increases the probability that an attack will deal critical damage.
Determination Increases the amount of damage dealt by all attacks and the amount of HP recovered by spells.
Attack Power Increases the amount of damage dealt by physical attacks.
Skill Speed Reduces the recast time of weaponskills.
Attack Magic Potency Increases the amount of damage dealt by spells.
Healing Magic Potency Increases the amount of HP recovered by spells.
Spell Speed Reduces the cast and recast times of spells.
Defense Reduces the amount of damage received from physical attacks.
Parry Increases the probability that an attack will be blocked or parried.
Magic Defense Reduces the amount of damage received from magical attacks.
...

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#10 Jul 31 2013 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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From Earlier Phases it just seemed more proficient to stack all your points into your Main Attribute. When leveling my CNJ, I stacked MIND. I did experiment with a few points into Piety to increase my MP, but the ratio seemed rather poor (3 points of MP for 1 point). Didn't seem to have a significant difference in MP regen either for what its worth.
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#11 Jul 31 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
On MRD, I put my points into STR. I personally feel that it was a mistake and that VIT would have been the better option.

I think it's going to depend a lot on playstyle and what you are fighting. Personally, I like STR as the better option because it increases my overall damage and allows me to hold hate better, but I'm sure there are lots of situations where going with a VIT build would be good also (anything that hits for a lot of damage at once). I'm very hopeful they allow us to reset; I can't imagine they wouldn't since they already have the option coded into the character panel.

The problem with STR on MRD comes into play once you get WAR. Defiance increases HP by 25% and lowers damage by 35%. With Defiance up, each point of VIT is worth 1.25x it's initial value. STR, on the other hand, will increase your damage by the same percentage as before, but all the numbers involved are smaller.

As far as holding hate goes, I don't think 30 points of STR will matter much at level 50. With the enmity enhancers WAR and PLD get, it shouldn't be too hard for them to generate threat. Given that both jobs will be expected to reduce their damage by 30-35%, that extra 30 STR will affect kill speed very little. I think the extra HP regen that VIT indirectly increases will end up making the biggest difference.
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#12 Jul 31 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis wrote:

ARC in this case may refer to Arcanist.

An archer would of course prefer dex, but an arcanist may prefer int, mnd, or possibly vit or pie, depending on how stats affect pets.


Sorry about the confusion, I was referring to Arcanist, not Archer. I guess I'm still used to RNG from FFXI that I totally missed how someone could confuse what I meant. Thanks man...
#13 Jul 31 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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I never even thought of that, now how will we know the difference between Archer and Arcanist!? Smiley: confused
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#14 Jul 31 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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FrozenSherbet wrote:
BartelX wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
On MRD, I put my points into STR. I personally feel that it was a mistake and that VIT would have been the better option.

I think it's going to depend a lot on playstyle and what you are fighting. Personally, I like STR as the better option because it increases my overall damage and allows me to hold hate better, but I'm sure there are lots of situations where going with a VIT build would be good also (anything that hits for a lot of damage at once). I'm very hopeful they allow us to reset; I can't imagine they wouldn't since they already have the option coded into the character panel.

The problem with STR on MRD comes into play once you get WAR. Defiance increases HP by 25% and lowers damage by 35%. With Defiance up, each point of VIT is worth 1.25x it's initial value. STR, on the other hand, will increase your damage by the same percentage as before, but all the numbers involved are smaller.

As far as holding hate goes, I don't think 30 points of STR will matter much at level 50. With the enmity enhancers WAR and PLD get, it shouldn't be too hard for them to generate threat. Given that both jobs will be expected to reduce their damage by 30-35%, that extra 30 STR will affect kill speed very little. I think the extra HP regen that VIT indirectly increases will end up making the biggest difference.


For warrior, I agree. I was honestly meaning more for MRD during the first 30 levels. I've always liked the concept of a damage tank more than an HP tank. And actually, I'd still think STR would have a place in any content that doesn't require you to run in Defiance (I'm guessing most leveling dungeons probably won't other than the occasional boss fight). For endgame, I can definitely see how VIT would make sense.
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#15 Jul 31 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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FrozenSherbet wrote:



As far as holding hate goes, I don't think 30 points of STR will matter much at level 50. With the enmity enhancers WAR and PLD get, it shouldn't be too hard for them to generate threat. Given that both jobs will be expected to reduce their damage by 30-35%, that extra 30 STR will affect kill speed very little. I think the extra HP regen that VIT indirectly increases will end up making the biggest difference.


I typically felt that the traits of the class were the best indicator for what to merit. MAR has only +VIT bonuses so that one of the reasons for my confusion. I felt MAR would be able to hold hate though damage only and primarily serve as an off tank. I'm not so sure on that early prognosis anymore from reading more about the class. I'm not so sure I'll want to play WAR right now, MAR looks cool enough. Because I wasn't able to take MAR high enough during Phase 3, I'm not sure how their damage will scale. All I know was that MAR was the best melee job in terms of damage for the jobs I was able to play. So part of me would rather just pile on the STR and just zerg the **** out of mobs wearing tank gear if necessary.

I honestly didn't know VIT played into HP regen. I thought it was defense and HP pool only. Now you've given me more to think about in determining which direction to go. I already feel stupid enough for dropping a few points into DEX on my LNC thinking it was ACC. :P

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 1:45pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#16 Jul 31 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:


For warrior, I agree. I was honestly meaning more for MRD during the first 30 levels. I've always liked the concept of a damage tank more than an HP tank. And actually, I'd still think STR would have a place in any content that doesn't require you to run in Defiance (I'm guessing most leveling dungeons probably won't other than the occasional boss fight). For endgame, I can definitely see how VIT would make sense.


I'm wondering if SE will allow us to respec points with a cooldown timer allowing further customizations for varying playstyles. Otherwise what's the point for offering DEX to a LNC or VIT for a mage? I'm interested in how you think MAR as an off tank in say a 8man or higher party would function in endgame using a str build only? I'd imagine in a 4 man or main tank role that VIT would primary based on the responses here.
#17 Jul 31 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here is a post from the SE forums that you might find of interest.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/56961-Damage-healing-output-Forumla-s-Thoughts?p=789196&viewfull=1#post789196
Damage + healing output Forumla's - Thoughts

Ive been doing some testing to figure out the dmg formula.. and its very easy.
And so far, weapon stats are huge.

To figure your damage.


All you do is. (level 15 lancer)
Attack Power + Ability Potency / 100 x Weapon damage.

So for my 15 lancer. (this was with no or crappy gear if much gear at all)
60+150 = 210/100 = 2.1x10(weapon damage) = 21 Dmg per True Thrust.


For healing.
Healing Potency + Heal Potency / 70 X Weapon Damage.

It seems heals or at least Conj has a build in 30% increase over the damage forumla.

This will get you within 1-2 dmg of how much dmg your ability will do.
*Note, this does not account for passive Traits or Cleric stance that Increase Damage.


I would also note, The level 50 weapons in Ulda grand company Vender

Casters have a decent amount of a higher damage stats then melee, just something to think about when looking at the formula.
GLD/PLD Weapon - 39dmg
PUG/MNK Weapon - 39dmg
LNC/DRG Weapon - 39dmg
MRD/WAR Weapon - 39dmg
ACH/BRD - 35 dmg
Thm/BLM Weapon - 59dmg
CNJ/WHM Weapon - 59 dmg

Rest of the damage basically comes by your passive stat gains, gear stat allocation, armor enhancements, and the stats you choose.
Like a level 15 Lancer has a Higher STR then level 15 Pugalist

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#18 Jul 31 2013 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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The XI RDM inside me has been theory crafting about VIT for Stoneskin. In XI Stoneskin has a soft cap of 350, which is about 30% of a 99 Hume RDM's max HP. In XIV crossclassed Stoneskin absorbs 10% of your max HP, which is significantly weaker than XI's version by that metric. I'm not sure how much HP a point of VIT gives or if it will be worth the tradeoff, but is should increase the strength of Stoneskin.

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 3:55pm by ScrapTower
#19 Jul 31 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
For warrior, I agree. I was honestly meaning more for MRD during the first 30 levels. I've always liked the concept of a damage tank more than an HP tank. And actually, I'd still think STR would have a place in any content that doesn't require you to run in Defiance (I'm guessing most leveling dungeons probably won't other than the occasional boss fight). For endgame, I can definitely see how VIT would make sense.

STR's value should increase a lot once they add a second job to the class. Anyway, let's continue to hope that they put in a reset. Even if it costs gil, I'm fine with it.


ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I honestly didn't know VIT played into HP regen. I thought it was defense and HP pool only. Now you've given me more to think about in determining which direction to go. I already feel stupid enough for dropping a few points into DEX on my LNC thinking it was ACC. :P

HP regen is determined by a percentage of your total HP. Since VIT increases your HP, your HP regen increases by extension. If you have beta forum access, this thread brings it up. You'll have to sift through a whole lot of pointless arguing, though.


Wint wrote:
I never even thought of that, now how will we know the difference between Archer and Arcanist!? Smiley: confused

I've just been calling it ACN until the official abbreviation pops up. It would be a whole lot easier if Archer was called Bowman. Then we could just abbreviate that BOW.
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#20 Jul 31 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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FrozenSherbet wrote:

STR's value should increase a lot once they add a second job to the class. Anyway, let's continue to hope that they put in a reset. Even if it costs gil, I'm fine with it.


I don't understand what you mean here. Isn't the stats of MAR class and WAR job separate? Couldn't someone just dump all STR into MAR and all VIT into WAR having the best of both worlds, no negatives? Sorry for the confusion, my highest character was only lv22.


Quote:

HP regen is determined by a percentage of your total HP. Since VIT increases your HP, your HP regen increases by extension. If you have beta forum access, this thread brings it up. You'll have to sift through a whole lot of pointless arguing, though.


I see what you mean here. I assume MP regen works the same way.
#21 Jul 31 2013 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I don't understand what you mean here. Isn't the stats of MAR class and WAR job separate? Couldn't someone just dump all STR into MAR and all VIT into WAR having the best of both worlds, no negatives? Sorry for the confusion, my highest character was only lv22.

As of right now, attribute points are separated by class only. SMN and SCH, for instance, both share the same attribute points with ACN. So if you dump all your points into STR for MRD, your WAR gets stuck with STR. The reason I brought up a second job for MRD is that it will probably end up being a DPS that takes better advantage of STR.
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#22 Jul 31 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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FrozenSherbet wrote:

As of right now, attribute points are separated by class only. SMN and SCH, for instance, both share the same attribute points with ACN. So if you dump all your points into STR for MRD, your WAR gets stuck with STR. The reason I brought up a second job for MRD is that it will probably end up being a DPS that takes better advantage of STR.


Ahhh, this makes sense to me now. I better tell my GLD buddy that his PLD will be affected if he doesn't dump all VIT in it. I'm a bit skeptical of another class using MAR as a job right now. I suppose SAM would be the ideal choice, but it seems Ninja and Thief are on the table to fit stealth slots first. Anyways, you've helped me a great deal when specing out my MAR.
#23 Jul 31 2013 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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FrozenSherbet wrote:
Wint wrote:
I never even thought of that, now how will we know the difference between Archer and Arcanist!? Smiley: confused

I've just been calling it ACN until the official abbreviation pops up. It would be a whole lot easier if Archer was called Bowman. Then we could just abbreviate that BOW.


Same goes for Gladiator and Goldsmith. A lot of people abbreviate both as Gld.
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#24 Jul 31 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Wint wrote:
I never even thought of that, now how will we know the difference between Archer and Arcanist!? Smiley: confused

I've just been calling it ACN until the official abbreviation pops up. It would be a whole lot easier if Archer was called Bowman. Then we could just abbreviate that BOW.

Same goes for Gladiator and Goldsmith. A lot of people abbreviate both as Gld.

To fix that, they could change Gladiator to Knight. I think Knight makes more sense for the name of the class anyway. For abbreviations, I just follow the naming conventions used in the Shared Skills Table. It keeps me from getting confused.
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#25 Jul 31 2013 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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FrozenSherbet wrote:
BartelX wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Wint wrote:
I never even thought of that, now how will we know the difference between Archer and Arcanist!? Smiley: confused

I've just been calling it ACN until the official abbreviation pops up. It would be a whole lot easier if Archer was called Bowman. Then we could just abbreviate that BOW.

Same goes for Gladiator and Goldsmith. A lot of people abbreviate both as Gld.

To fix that, they could change Gladiator to Knight. I think Knight makes more sense for the name of the class anyway. For abbreviations, I just follow the naming conventions used in the Shared Skills Table. It keeps me from getting confused.


I would be completely ok if they changed gladiator to knight... but only if it meant we get this class.
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#26 Jul 31 2013 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
ARC is a bit of a mystery since all we know is that PIE expands the MP pool. We don't know what modifiers such as INT or MND boost their abilities yet. I suppose we could guess that all damage abilities use INT, but I'm hoping someone else knows for sure.


Wouldn't it be expected that ARC would rely heavily on DEX?

ARC in this case may refer to Arcanist.

An archer would of course prefer dex, but an arcanist may prefer int, mnd, or possibly vit or pie, depending on how stats affect pets.


Makes sense. I'm still stick in FFXI world where Arcanist didn't exist.
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