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Are you sure this game is good?Follow

#1 Aug 18 2013 at 2:10 AM Rating: Decent
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I keep hearing rave reviews about how great 2.0 is, and after playing it for two days now I'm starting to doubt whether or not this game is really good and will keep the interest of players for any extended period of time. If you had asked me yesterday how I thought FFXIV was, I would have had the same euphoric response about what a fantastic game it is. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad game by any means, but what does it offer that no other MMORPG hasn't already done?

I feel like a huge reason everyone is speaking so highly about the game is because of how amazing it is in contrast to FFXIV 1.0, because it really is a huge difference. A lot of us, including myself, are likely judging the game based on how improved it is to 1.0, but lets do our best to try and look at 2.0 objectively on its own merit. What does the game offer? The graphics are above average at best, it won't be anything to brag about until the DX11 patch hits months from now, sound and music is pretty good. But gameplay? Most classes spam the same ability over and over and over again with little to no variation for a long time. I cast pretty much nothing but Stone and Cure as a Conjurer from 1 to 20.

Overall, I feel the game is a little too much on the easy side. I realize the first 20 levels are somewhat of a tutorial, but I really just have very little faith in XIV having much depth, immersion or excitement that XI had. XIV lacks any of the hardships that XI had. A lot of people complain about the penalties XI imposed, but those penalties are what also gave the player a huge sense of accomplishment when you pulled off virtually anything in the game. Traveling is way too easy in XIV, so if I die, I'm not concerned about getting back to my location. There is no XP loss like in XI either so death doesn't really mean anything. I actually disliked XP loss/leveling down, but still it made you really not want to die and was a good adrenaline pump when you got low in fights.

I know a lot of players hated how XI punished you, required you to camp a spot for literally a ridiculous amount of hours, etc. But things like that are what make events memorable. I can still remember hanging out with a couple friends camping Othinus' Bow for literally hours and the great feeling when the NM spawned and we got the drop. I can remember camping for Joyeuse with friends, getting the claim and getting the sword for people I didn't even know in real life. It was exciting to help others. A lot of things were so dangerous and difficult in XI that players got a sense of accomplishment for purely helping others and not even getting anything in return. Need to kill an NM that normally needs a party? Let's get a badass 75RDM/NIN to solo it and give him a chance to show off.

I just have very little faith in XIV to deliver anywhere close to what XI has given us. I can still remember the names of people I used to play with on XI, and now in XIV we have Duty Finder giving us strangers on other servers that I can't even make friends with and socialize with because after the group is done, we part ways and never speak again. Instead of XP parties where you can chat and have a good time with people, you have FATEs where countless people gangbang a mob Rift style and move on, no socializing or bonding that XI offered.

I know being negative about a game getting so much hype right now is probably a stupid topic to bring up, but I really want XIV to succeed in the long run and at the moment it seems like a fairly hollow game getting a lot of false praise because of how good it is in comparison to the earlier iteration.

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 4:12am by Jeraziah
#2 Aug 18 2013 at 2:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm enjoying it immensely thusfar.
My question has always been the endgame content. This game will need more endgame content than FFXI had.
Levelling kept people occupied in 11. If you wanted to level another job in 11, you had to start at level 1 and it took a lot of time.
It's so easy to level thusfar in FFXIV that the levelling process is nearly meaningless, there will be no market for low level gear as it is easy to acquire, and not even needed to level.
I'm quite sure a conjurer could level from 1 to 20 in a day in all level 1 gear.
Also when new jobs get released, if they're attached to already existing classes, people will immediately be max level without having to level up at all.
Low level zones should be dead within the first few months as most people will have most if not all of their desired jobs past level 20. Heck most people will have them by 20 before launch.
The endgame better be robust.
#3 Aug 18 2013 at 2:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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I understand where you're coming from, but personally I am loving the game. I too played FFXI in the early days where everything was a massive challenge, and I still keep in touch with people I met in game today.

My life has changed however, and the fact that I can hop online and go do something without having to sit with a seek party flag up for hours on end, is a godsend.

I think you can still make friends though, duty finder is awesome, and I will be using it a lot. It's not compulsory though. Want to make your own party, go right ahead.

I think it's a bit early to say this game has nothing to offer. I have almost hit level 20 and there is still a lot of stuff I haven't done.

To me this game achieved the ultimate, it entertained me.
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#4 Aug 18 2013 at 2:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Jeraziah wrote:
What does the game offer?

I asked this question in a little different form (What makes XIV unique compared to alternative MMOs?) and didn't really receive any response that wasn't something that is already in another game. The only real standout differences was the FF style of course and their version of storytelling.

Jeraziah wrote:
Overall, I feel the game is a little too much on the easy side. I realize the first 20 levels are somewhat of a tutorial, but I really just have very little faith in XIV having much depth, immersion or excitement that XI had. XIV lacks any of the hardships that XI had. A lot of people complain about the penalties XI imposed, but those penalties are what also gave the player a huge sense of accomplishment when you pulled off virtually anything in the game. Traveling is way too easy in XIV, so if I die, I'm not concerned about getting back to my location. There is no XP loss like in XI either so death doesn't really mean anything. I actually disliked XP loss/leveling down, but still it made you really not want to die and was a good adrenaline pump when you got low in fights.


I agree 100%, but I don't think any of this appeals to the current MMO crowd. It's not that they want to be spoon-fed, but they also don't want it to take half an hour just to get somewhere to setup camp and grind for hours more. It's shifted to a bunch of smaller accomplishments than one grand goal and a lot of people, especially those of us with jobs, kids, ect. don't really mind that.

Jeraziah wrote:
I just have very little faith in XIV to deliver anywhere close to what XI has given us.

It's not going to. It was never touted as FFXI v.2 and it wouldn't live up to that anyway. Honestly, I don't see why they didn't just keep FFXI going strong instead of sinking so many resources into this game.




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#5 Aug 18 2013 at 3:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Similar threads has been given out again. I'll response the same as well. I never played XI (other than the trial) don't know the game and don't care about that game. People loved/love it and I can understand that kind of love (see eve online for me) but XIV is not XI and never was. I do not want to grid an item for god knows how many hours, I do not want to camp a location for hours, I do not want to do xp parties and hunt the same mobs for hours upon hours. If I wanted I would play XI but I don't.

As for Duty Finder...WoW at the start didn't have it and if you are in a server with few tanks or healers? **** you are out of luck. You would NEVER get a party to run a dungeon. You had to do your daily instance for reward..there were times that I couldn't because I couldn't find a tank (and mind I was a healer so I had lots of invites). After they brought "duty finder" I and the rest were ecstatic cause we finally were able to do our dungeons and not wait for hours to do a dungeon that would take us like 15minutes to do.

No one is stopping people from looking for people the usual way, by shouting for hours..if you want to do it feel free to do so. Not to mention you will have your FC and ls to form up parties as well.

People should stop comparing XIV with XI because other than few similarities they aren't the same and SE never intended to bring XI 2.0 or so I think.
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#6 Aug 18 2013 at 3:13 AM Rating: Good
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We haven't seen anything resembling endgame yet. And we haven't seen most of the game yet.

Also the leveling curve gets pretty steep later on.

Plus you can eschew the DF and you can make your own groups if you want.

Endgame will be just as challenging as any other MMO out there, I'd bet on it.
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Although I "miss" the old FFXI days, those mechanics of waiting for PTs, to needing high level help, to get behind in leveling and have to catch up, to have to farm millions/NMs, trying not to die in a horrible group, just added time and headaches to an already niche game. The things that were awesome about the game were equally horrible.

FFXI was even fun for a short period with GoV and FoV. It was different but I was able to experience things I never could have because of time constraints. FFXI just never found a good balance between HC and casual; they just went in opposite directions.

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What I hope FFXIV does, is NOT become FFXI, just because...but to create challenging content, a LOT of content and stuff where I can feel skillful in a solo setting and keep the things to do going, most importantly, in a Final Fantasy setting.

People who played and enjoyed FFXI are NEVER going to feel what they felt for FFXI in FFXIV, it just isn't going to happen.

So far the game is as good as Rift or GW2. No, it doesn't have a ton of innovation (some might say none) but it definitely has the world I want to be in, and I think that's even more important.
#7 Aug 18 2013 at 3:23 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I know a lot of players hated how XI punished you, required you to camp a spot for literally a ridiculous amount of hours, etc. But things like that are what make events memorable. I can still remember hanging out with a couple friends camping Othinus' Bow for literally hours (...) I just have very little faith in XIV to deliver anywhere close to what XI has given us.


For which I am very, very grateful.
#8 Aug 18 2013 at 3:24 AM Rating: Good
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It sounds to me that you don't dislike the game for what it is, you more-so dislike the game for how different it is from XI. The game is easier for the reason that so many MMO players refuse to play a game that they can't dominate. It's the reason that FFXI peaked at only around 600k global subscribers during its glory days.

Players today have just about lost the ability to accept failing from time-to-time. FFXI was loaded with the possibility of failure at every turn. Some people liked the challenges, a lot of people decided that XI just wasn't the MMO for them because of it. SE didn't do XI any kind of injustice by making XIV an overall different experience. SE did what was best for the overall longevity of their game.

Personally I miss grouping up with 4 other people and fighting like **** just to kill one enemy. Working as a team like that was one of the bigger draws of XI to me. Should that aspect of my enjoyment in XI diminish my enjoyment of leveling in XIV? I'd have to say no. Quest leveling is a much more up-to-date way of progressing people through the game. It gives people, no matter how limited their time, a way to gain s!ome exp and progress without having to wait around. You can just log in and get to work.

Don't dislike XIV just because it's not massively similar to XI. SE made XIV the way it is to appeal to today's MMO market. People have limited time schedules. They can't sit in Whitegate for 4 hours hoping to get a party invite. SE's solution to one of XI's biggest flaws (waiting an undisclosed amount of hours for a group invite just because you weren't one of the really popular jobs) is the Duty Finder. It let's anyone, no matter what their class, hop into a group and experience content.

I could sit here and write the reasons why SE made XIV different from XI and why I think SE made the right choice in changing things, all night. Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm saying.
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#9 Aug 18 2013 at 3:43 AM Rating: Good
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It could be more challenging, and I dislike the Duty Finder for the very same reasons you listed. It feels like you're playing with soulless automatons a lot of the time instead of actual people. I would have preferred it to be server restricted at least.

That said, this is XIV not XI. In fact, a lot of the things you praised XI for were just a pain in the *** at the end of the day. A lot of it made the game tedious and slow.. that doesn't equal difficult. The nostalgia factor tricks you. From the looks of it XIV just took the best of both new and old MMO worlds.
#10 Aug 18 2013 at 3:51 AM Rating: Good
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Teracide wrote:
It sounds to me that you don't dislike the game for what it is, you more-so dislike the game for how different it is from XI. The game is easier for the reason that so many MMO players refuse to play a game that they can't dominate. It's the reason that FFXI peaked at only around 600k global subscribers during its glory days.


This pretty much sums up the TC's complaints. This isn't FFXI-2. Get over it. We don't want it to become FFXI-2.

Plus the complaints of being too easy? Serious business. I hear the first half of leveling in any MMO is brutal torture and showcases absolutely everything you can do with all abilities, every type of customization unlocked, a group of competent people, and a goal to achie---

o wait...

When everyone has Relics +1, everything cleared on all hardmodes, and will watching **** at the same time then you'll have a valid complaint about the game being easy. Complaining about leveling and the starter tutorial dungeons is just inane babbling.
#11 Aug 18 2013 at 3:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Viertel wrote:
Teracide wrote:
It sounds to me that you don't dislike the game for what it is, you more-so dislike the game for how different it is from XI. The game is easier for the reason that so many MMO players refuse to play a game that they can't dominate. It's the reason that FFXI peaked at only around 600k global subscribers during its glory days.


This pretty much sums up the TC's complaints. This isn't FFXI-2. Get over it. We don't want it to become FFXI-2.

Plus the complaints of being too easy? Serious business. I hear the first half of leveling in any MMO is brutal torture and showcases absolutely everything you can do with all abilities, every type of customization unlocked, a group of competent people, and a goal to achie---

o wait...

When everyone has Relics +1, everything cleared on all hardmodes, and will watching **** at the same time then you'll have a valid complaint about the game being easy. Complaining about leveling and the starter tutorial dungeons is just inane babbling.

Yes, tear his head off because he is a fan of FFXI and had a nostalgic moment. That is completely deserved Smiley: oyvey
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#12 Aug 18 2013 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Being a long time XI player: 500 days + playtime it is a completely different experience playing this, no you don't get the huge boost when you achieve something relatively minor such as killing 5 monsters and getting a chain bonus. This isnt a bad thing it's just having to work so hard for everything even minor gives you that feel good feeling, until we find out how later content is going to be it is very unfair to say this game is crap as there will still be things we will all find challenging.
#13 Aug 18 2013 at 4:08 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Yes, tear his head off because he is a fan of FFXI and had a nostalgic moment. That is completely deserved Smiley: oyvey


It's fine haha, I made the mistake of posting this same topic on the FFXIV subreddit and was met with similar comments to his. I know it's not popular to talk badly about a game that is new and everyone is enjoying very much. But at least this community was nice enough to have a somewhat real discussion about it.

If it didn't come across in my first message, I really do actually enjoy FFXIV and want the game to succeed. I was just having my doubts about how long myself and others might enjoy the game because of reasons I listed.
#14 Aug 18 2013 at 4:08 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Viertel wrote:
Teracide wrote:
It sounds to me that you don't dislike the game for what it is, you more-so dislike the game for how different it is from XI. The game is easier for the reason that so many MMO players refuse to play a game that they can't dominate. It's the reason that FFXI peaked at only around 600k global subscribers during its glory days.


This pretty much sums up the TC's complaints. This isn't FFXI-2. Get over it. We don't want it to become FFXI-2.

Plus the complaints of being too easy? Serious business. I hear the first half of leveling in any MMO is brutal torture and showcases absolutely everything you can do with all abilities, every type of customization unlocked, a group of competent people, and a goal to achie---

o wait...

When everyone has Relics +1, everything cleared on all hardmodes, and will watching **** at the same time then you'll have a valid complaint about the game being easy. Complaining about leveling and the starter tutorial dungeons is just inane babbling.

Yes, tear his head off because he is a fan of FFXI and had a nostalgic moment. That is completely deserved Smiley: oyvey


Haha. I kinda of felt the same way when I read your quoted post.

I posted in a calm, explanatory manner, then he quotes my post and uses it to fuel his flames of rage.

Tone down the heat a bit, champ. We're all friends here.
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#15 Aug 18 2013 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
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It's really enjoyable so far for me on a new character. There are a bunch of things naturally that **** me off, but for the most part, i like the game, the workings and the area's. There are a lot of cute little details and fun things, like the Flying Shark bar to name one. But at the same time, they got rid of the mithra "dancers" in the bar at the Miner's Guild...

Honestly though, they could have done a far better job with job-availability, like simply picking up the lv.1 basic tool/weapon to unlock any of the basic jobs for instance, instead of having to travel to an entirely diffirent city just so you can unlock a hand full of the extra starters (lets be honest here, the unlocking "quest" is nothing more than talking to the receptionist and then the Guildmaster, could have been skipped...). Now not only do you have to level something to level 10 that you most likely just picked because of the more interesting starter city, you also have to get to level 30 i hear just to use the boat and/or airship. That's really harsh.

And then there's the "Dated" gear that my previous character was stuck on upon logging in, which at level 40 is completely outclassed in stats by even level 15 basic NPC gear.

All in all, It's not a bad game, but SE could have gone the extra mile and not created such massive time sinks right from the start.
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#16 Aug 18 2013 at 4:22 AM Rating: Decent
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This is the same story I've been hearing since phase 3. There are members of the FF community are unable to play this game without comparing it to FFXI. It's been said plenty of times--this isn't FFXI-2. Is that what you were expecting? Because if that's case you were asking to be disappointed. And last I checked, FFXI is still going.

I played FFXI for 6 years. Nothing will ever compare to the memories and friends I have now because of my experiences in that game. I'm enjoying FFXIV because I'm willing to separate the two. I didn't realize that was such a hard thing to do for some people until I got into these forums. This is a different game. If it isn't your cup of tea, there's always a chance that a MMO will be released that is.
#17 Aug 18 2013 at 5:09 AM Rating: Good
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Well. It's definitely a playable game for what it's trying to be. I'm going to subscribe to play with some friends and I am enjoying playing with them, but obviously I have complaints as well as things I like.

The music is nowhere near as good as FFXI's, but it's still pretty good for an MMORPG. There are a couple tracks that really bother me though, like Ul'dah (daytime). I hope that doesn't become the central hub "Jeuno" town again, because I feel like that theme fits so badly. Most of the other music I'm ok with and I even like some of the tracks.

The area design is good and I really like what they've done with the camps and the little towns and fleshing out the world a lot better than it was in 1.xx. The only thing bothering me a little is the zones. It's not so much the idea of zones themselves... I love FFXI and that has zones. I think it's just the way zones are set up in ARR that makes things feel a little disjointed at times. It's definitely easy to get confused.

The graphics are pretty decent - not the best, but the game makes up for it with its art direction. So, it's a nice looking game. TERA and other MMORPGs technically have better graphics but ARR still has better aesthetics because of its design.

The combat is passable and I guess it's just trying to be like World of Warcraft's, but I think the combat was more enjoyable in 1.23. The main thing I don't like is the way TP works. That part is just horrible, in my opinion.

Character creation is... pretty bad honestly, they really need to add more hairstyles at the very least. There's way too many sameface people everywhere, and a lot of people using the same haircuts. Some of the races only have one or two cool haircuts. I think they need more facial hair too.

The story is OK, but I think the pacing is a little strange. By level 15 you're already world famous and talking to God and a Warrior of Light and all that, and every NPC is praising you. So, it feels kinda rushed.

UI is sleek and good looking, but there are still some things that need tuning with it. Sometimes it takes too many button presses to get in and out of things and it can just be a hassle in some areas.

My biggest disappointment is that there isn't really a class in that I really like. I would really love to main Thief or Dark Knight.

I think the game could be pretty good, especially for Final Fantasy fans, by the first expansion. I think it really needs a couple of key classes that it doesn't have and hopefully a new central hub city which isn't Ul'dah. And as someone else said, endgame will be very important. I don't want to be running around in Job AF -- I'm so sick of all those sets already. They don't look cool at all to me anymore. So I hope there's plenty of gear coming ASAP that blows AF away and plenty of challenging content.

So, yeah... I don't know what rave reviews you're reading. I probably wouldn't tell anyone to "GO BUY ARR NOW!", but if they like MMOs, I might tell them to try it and see if they like it.

Edit: Of course, I know what you're saying with the XI comparisons. The game trades a lot of depth for ease of access. I wish certain content was more difficult and I wish there was a better sense of... danger. I haven't encountered anything in ARR which gave me a sense of danger at all. I died once in an instance because my healer spaced out and I was tanking, but that's pretty much it. So a big thing is that the game is just way too easy right now. Part of this is the combat too whether you know it or not.

Also, believe it or not, not everyone is comparing it to 1.0. The people I'm playing with like it and they didn't play 1.0 at all.

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 7:15am by Killua125
#18 Aug 18 2013 at 5:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:



My biggest disappointment is that there isn't really a class in that I really like. I would really love to main Thief or Dark Knight.


Edited, Aug 18th 2013 7:15am by Killua125


I agree with you on most of the cons, particularly the part about being a hero so soon. I actually like the music though. But this part deserves a **** yes. I'm loving MRD but THF and RNG were two of my maxed (at the time, 75) classes and I would like to see something similar in time on ARR. A DRK class would rock as well.
#19 Aug 18 2013 at 5:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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PhrozenFFXI wrote:
Killua125 wrote:



My biggest disappointment is that there isn't really a class in that I really like. I would really love to main Thief or Dark Knight.


Edited, Aug 18th 2013 7:15am by Killua125


I agree with you on most of the cons, particularly the part about being a hero so soon. I actually like the music though. But this part deserves a **** yes. I'm loving MRD but THF and RNG were two of my maxed (at the time, 75) classes and I would like to see something similar in time on ARR. A DRK class would rock as well.


You can't really hate on the game for lack of classes at the moment. I'm sure we'll be getting ton of other classes soon enough. I'm personally a BLU at heart, and can't wait for them to put that job into the game.

I seriously doubt that the classes we have right now, are all we're gonna get.
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#20 Aug 18 2013 at 5:36 AM Rating: Decent
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#21 Aug 18 2013 at 5:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Teracide wrote:
PhrozenFFXI wrote:
Killua125 wrote:



My biggest disappointment is that there isn't really a class in that I really like. I would really love to main Thief or Dark Knight.


Edited, Aug 18th 2013 7:15am by Killua125


I agree with you on most of the cons, particularly the part about being a hero so soon. I actually like the music though. But this part deserves a **** yes. I'm loving MRD but THF and RNG were two of my maxed (at the time, 75) classes and I would like to see something similar in time on ARR. A DRK class would rock as well.


You can't really hate on the game for lack of classes at the moment. I'm sure we'll be getting ton of other classes soon enough. I'm personally a BLU at heart, and can't wait for them to put that job into the game.

I seriously doubt that the classes we have right now, are all we're gonna get.


Of course not. I was really into THM in phase 3, and now I'm into MRD. Loving the game so far, but the possible class combinations have me anxious.
#22 Aug 18 2013 at 5:42 AM Rating: Decent
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My biggest complaints about the game so far is what i posted before a while back about the lack of skills and magic throughout all levels compared to ff14 1.0 or a lot of other mmorpg including ff11.

examples:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/abilitylist.html?class=23
vs

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Conjurer

or
http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/abilitylist.html?class=3
vs

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Gladiator


really almost any class in general I much prefer the way 1.0 had skills and i also like having options to unlock more additional passives by playing the class and earning class points this was a whole lot better than what we have now. Now its just around 15 skills and removal of additional options, they just combines skills and made it too streamlined and simplistic. ( this is open beta and what we have now its most likely what we have at release also ) this is a huge dissapointment and my number 1 complain about the new game in general.


now to what OP said about easy mode. I completely agree, getting levels in this game is extremely easy and teleportation is also made even more easy than before it removes a lot of sense of travel and exploration when you are able to teleport ( practically free now compared to 1.0 ) anywhere 24/7. In 1.0 I had complaints but at least they limited the amount of teleportations you got a week or for certain amount of time, that way people were not just hopping around places.

you gain levels far too fast and very little amount of effort almost feels like they just trow away levels for you lol. I also prefer combat in 1.20 patch which was my last one played as it felt a whole lot better than just randomly spamming at enemy on screen.

game is by all means good, but it feels like a F2P game and I am not seeing how the game is worth the monthly price tag so far to grab customers away from other mmorpg's.
a ton of improvements specially the UI for controller mode I really do love it, but I prefer 1.20 to ARR.

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 7:45am by KingAlkaiser

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 7:46am by KingAlkaiser
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#25 Aug 18 2013 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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I challenge everyone to wait maybe just 6-9 months AFTER launch to see if they are going to stay or not, then if they are going to opt out of playing, be civil in saying so long to the forum community and simply stop playing. No need for any "OMG FFXIV SUXORS" threads or anything like that because I'm sure it will only cause flame wars, and the people who decide they can enjoy the game for what it is will simply do just that... play.
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Quote:
Fiddle Faddle!

#26 Aug 18 2013 at 8:54 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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108 posts
Im sure this has been posted many times before.
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