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#102 Aug 20 2013 at 7:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Darkfae77 wrote:
honestly what rubs me the wrong way a bit is reading some posts with that "wow" mentality in mind. Such as the "i have a life i can't play all day" as an excuse for content to be "fast pace". Meaning they can do it in a single try and get their reward.


I don't understand your comparison here.

Most of the rewards worth getting in WoW took way longer than a day to get. I don't know if you ever actually played the game, but you're way off here.

Not wanting to need a party of six to walk across the street for a hot dog is not the same as wanting the best gear in the game mailed to me when I create my character.

There actually IS something in between.
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#103 Aug 20 2013 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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Braedenk wrote:
I had fun while playing it. Since the point of a game is to entertain, and I was very entertained by it all weekend, I'd say its a good game.


Ultimately, that's only what really matters. Endgame, leveling, mechanics aside mean nothing.

Do you personally enjoy the game? If so, then Yoshi-P succeeded for you.

Seriha wrote:
Distancing myself from the BS about difficulty or even FFXI nostalgia, something I find myself flustered with is the absolute and utter insistence that a game is only good if it will last for years for an individual.


This is also another good point. You mention it but it's such a double standard in that we'll purchase a $59.99 game that'll last use a week or maybe two weeks. Yet, somehow the game that we purchase for $29.99/$39.99 and play for the free month only (worst case scenario here) somehow fails?

Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Honestly, Ifrit Extreme along with extra Nael Van Darnus fight were probably harder then anything FFXI offered. Or they are at the very least comparable to FFXI's tough fights. Heck, the bard af body fight (think it was body), took us multiple tries and felt harder then most Zilart gods and COP fights. What was the beauty of all this? As a casual player, I could complete most things with little help, or, I could join the multiple shouts for those crazy bosses and have fun getting my *** handed to me. It was a good balance, and I think ARR will maintain that.


This is why I laugh when people trying to mention FFXI somehow being more difficult than ARR because it flat out isn't. Time restrictive elements does not difficulty make. To make a fair comparison you *need* to bring the fight down to base levels.

What did HNM/Gods/etc. all do that made them difficult? The developers gave them ridiculously high levels (which screwed you for the dLVL check), defense, and usually -DT%. Outside of that what were they?

Regular monsters.

Every single one of them had access to some AoE move that high fairly hard and usually left a debuff -- just like most every other monster in the game. Every single one of them could be made infinitely easier by Elegy + Hojo/Slow alone -- just like every other monster. Every one of them had increased TP generation, but the frequency of moves they used increased as their health got lower -- just like regular monsters. Very few were outright immune to Stun mechanics, the majority of them could actually be slept (with literally no diminishing returns), and every single one of them were made easier if height difference could be used to eliminate the danger of AoE moves on the ranged classes. The only two that escaped these boundaries (Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden) were literally designed to not even be possible in the realm of sanity when they were first put in; that's not just bad design but it shows a massive contempt for players.

FFXI's difficulty came through the inventory, macro usage (or Spellcast), simple getting people, and FFXI's team excessive usage of time restrictions. Vanilla, Rise of Zilart, and Chains of Promathia showed them that they didn't know how to design really interesting bosses so starting with Limbus (late CoP) and ToAU+ they started to put time limitations on everything so people couldn't just stack healers to get everything done.
#104 Aug 20 2013 at 7:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Loris wrote:
Tigerlilly03 wrote:
This game is greatly lacking in the elements of socializing and team work.


To anyone who complains about lacking community or lacking socialization: you're simply not trying. I had 4 people send me a random tell while I was fishing asking how it was. One guy recommended I put up stealth, another just stopped by and said "what a beautiful spot to fish," and another just /cheered and /waved. I would /tell random strangers if I saw something cool (the airship minion) and how to get it. Doing similar questlines found you walking with people occassionally so I'd say hi. People can be understandably wary of random strangers, but most will be very nice if you type properly, ask politely, and aren't asking for gil or something. But at first YOU have to be the one to reach out and try to make a friend. It chain-reactions and next thing you'll have tons of in-game friends.


Edited, Aug 19th 2013 7:32pm by Loris


I accidentally invited a guy to party (targeting system in FATEs as a WAR on PS3 was a little fuzzy) and we ended up leveling a bit afterwards. Just killing random stuff for chains between FATEs. And I was just standing around by a crystal in my cool sky blue robe and two different people invited me to linkshells. Sounds like the community is there. Personally as long as I have my Zam LS pearl that is all I need.
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#105 Aug 20 2013 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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Viertel wrote:


What did HNM/Gods/etc. all do that made them difficult? The developers gave them ridiculously high levels (which screwed you for the dLVL check), defense, and usually -DT%. Outside of that what were they?

Regular monsters.


I agree. I don't remember seeing any instance in FFXI where an invulnerable slime would pop up that would need to be killed by kiting a bomb close to it and priming a charge, only to add increasing challenge by running mobs in trying to kill the bomb. Or an instance where giants would bang on walls to release their comrades. The Gigas never did that.. You want challenge and innovation? This game has it imo.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 9:14am by Valkayree
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#106 Aug 20 2013 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Darkfae77 wrote:
honestly what rubs me the wrong way a bit is reading some posts with that "wow" mentality in mind. Such as the "i have a life i can't play all day" as an excuse for content to be "fast pace". Meaning they can do it in a single try and get their reward.


I don't understand your comparison here.

Most of the rewards worth getting in WoW took way longer than a day to get. I don't know if you ever actually played the game, but you're way off here.

Not wanting to need a party of six to walk across the street for a hot dog is not the same as wanting the best gear in the game mailed to me when I create my character.

There actually IS something in between.


Thank you! I get so tired of people talking in absolutes. What, you don't like X? You must be Y! There is this whole area called middle ground. It always bugged me when I'd say something while playing 1.0 like, "crafting takes so long in this game. I wish it was faster." and someone in my LS would respond. "Well why don't they just give you max level in all crafts!" Seriously? That's what you got out of my comment? Good grief.

...whew, I'm done ranting.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 10:22am by BartelX
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#107 Aug 20 2013 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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Kierk wrote:
We haven't seen anything resembling endgame yet. And we haven't seen most of the game yet.

Also the leveling curve gets pretty steep later on.




Couple things, assuming this is accurate:

The level cap is 50. Even if this was data mined, I'm not sure it's safe to assume that post-50 data is accurate; that there will be an enormous spike in XP from 50 to 51 before it levels off again.

Also, the curve isn't all that steep. I haven't been paying too close attention to the exact returns, but I think the amount of XP you're awarded increases as you level which only serves to flatten the curve if you're looking at it as a function of time. Level 20 leves and fates award more than level 5 leves/fates, unless I'm mistaken. Though I'm not sure if individual mobs are like FFXI, where a mob that is a few levels higher will always give you 200 xp regardless of your level.

Dont get me wrong-- im not trying to complain. I'm just trying to look at it with an objective eye. I am glad to see that your second and third job (etc.) will take longer to level.

To the OP -- I have played several MMOs since FFXI (the last one in which I was HEAVILY involved), but none of them have drawn me in to the point where I envision myself playing the game long term. Over this beta weekend, I pulled two 12-hour sessions of nonstop FFXIV. I haven't done that for any game or MMO since I became deeply committed to FFXI endgame in 2006/2007.

So here's what I think this game has that others of its generation don't have (in the same form).. If you're looking for something completely unique, you're barking up the wrong genre:

- You aren't handed everything; sure it's not like FFXI or Everquest original in terms of a time investment vs. reward, but you also can't get an entire level just running from zone to zone "discovering" things (the reward for that is almost negligible in XIV). The game isn't in-your-face about shoving a personal mount into your hands at level 1. There's no GW2 Lion's Arch to teleport you across the planet at no cost at the drop of a hat.

-You WILL have to learn your class i the context of a party in order to advance the story and gain subsequent rewards like airship access and the ability to sell on the AH. How many other MMOs in this generation actually force EXPLICIT player interaction/cooperation as a barrier to advancement? Not many, I bet.

- Your character is a character, not a manifestation of the class/job you're playing. This is important because it adds meaning to the choices you make. This isn't unique, but combined with the game's emphasis on a story-driven narrative, there is a lot to be said for the effort you put into building a single character as opposed to a character that gets thrown away as soon as you stop leveling that job. Don't underestimate the importance of the sense of accomplishment that comes with this. At the most basic level, this is the main motivation for playing any RPG style game.



#108 Aug 20 2013 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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The amount of XP from 20 to 21 is correct.

In previous betas where the cap was 35, I noticed that XP from quests/missions tended to stay the same or at least not increase much after 20 even though the exp TNL was growing.
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#109 Aug 20 2013 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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1st thing is FF-11 has been out for a long time and its huge, But if you look at any new mmo its going to seem very small compared to a older one

2nd FF-11 was hard, mean, and would beat you for fun. And back before i had a wife and a life it was great. My LS was fun to be in and i really enjoyed the time I had

3rd FF -14 is a game I am gonna play because it takes what i liked from FF-11 and makes it better. A epic story where you play a huge part in it and you know whats going on the whole time

4th FF-14 is gonna be hard,mean and will beat me for fun when I'm in the mood to get mud stomped via the hard mode raids

So is the game worth it yeah to me it is because it takes what I loved about FF-11 and makes it better by changing everything except my part in the story
#110 Aug 20 2013 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't know why these threads (trolls) continue to emerge. The bottom line is: Is the game fun for me? yes/no. Is the game fun to the masses? doesn't matter/who cares. For those who enjoy playing, play until the wheels fall off enjoy your experiences and move on. For those who question or plain isn't interested find something that does. Writing long threads to get other people to co-sign with your doubts doesn't pertain to the matter that this site was built for FFXIV "fans" who have a vested interest in the game. I think most beta testers have a good idea by now if they want to play this game or not.

Example:
Person 1: I like game X
Person 2: That game isn't worth your time. Goes on to rant....
Person 1: I just like the game... I'm going to play it.
Person 2: You should play this other game.
Person 1: I don't like that game.
Person 2: Why?
Person 1 : I just don't like it... Its not fun to me.
Person 2: Sure its fun you just need to play it for awhile, you will find out that you actually like it.
Person 1: I'm just going to play the game I know I like now...
Person 2: The game is flawed, etc. etc. etc.

You see where I am going here? lol. Leave us alone. "You're messing with my zen thing man"


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#111 Aug 20 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Izonn wrote:
I don't know why these threads (trolls) continue to emerge. The bottom line is: Is the game fun for me? yes/no. Is the game fun to the masses? doesn't matter/who cares. For those who enjoy playing, play until the wheels fall off enjoy your experiences and move on. For those who question or plain isn't interested find something that does. Writing long threads to get other people to co-sign with your doubts doesn't pertain to the matter that this site was built for FFXIV "fans" who have a vested interest in the game. I think most beta testers have a good idea by now if they want to play this game or not.

Example:
Person 1: I like game X
Person 2: That game isn't worth your time. Goes on to rant....
Person 1: I just like the game... I'm going to play it.
Person 2: You should play this other game.
Person 1: I don't like that game.
Person 2: Why?
Person 1 : I just don't like it... Its not fun to me.
Person 2: Sure its fun you just need to play it for awhile, you will find out that you actually like it.
Person 1: I'm just going to play the game I know I like now...
Person 2: The game is flawed, etc. etc. etc.

You see where I am going here? lol. Leave us alone. "You're messing with my zen thing man"




no offense man but you calling people with over 100 post(more than half of the reply on this thread) on the forums ( trolls ) when you only have 3 makes you look funny saying this.
welcome to forums/internet indeed this is fansite for FF14 but this does not = a cult or prison, people have the right to voice their opinions whether good or bad. OP made a legitimate opinion on the game and politely voiced his thought on the game. If you did not like thread you could choose to simply not read or be a part of it.
your reply sounds like you are crying someone does not agree with your view of the game and doesn't want people to see this. Whiteknight or fanboy'ism ftw i guess lol.


Edited, Aug 20th 2013 12:01pm by KingAlkaiser

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 12:02pm by KingAlkaiser
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#112 Aug 20 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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KingAlkaiser wrote:

no offense man but you calling people with over 100 post(more than half of the reply on this thread) on the forums ( trolls ) when you only have 3 makes you look funny saying this.
welcome to forums/internet indeed this is fansite for FF14 but this does not = a cult or prison, people have the right to voice their opinions whether good or bad. OP made a legitimate opinion on the game and politely voiced his thought on the game. If you did not like thread you could choose to simply not read or be a part of it.
your reply sounds like you are crying someone does not agree with your view of the game and doesn't want people to see this. Whiteknight or fanboy'ism ftw i guess lol.


You are correct, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but post count is not equivalent to troll behavior. Would a troll suddenly stop being a troll once he ate the 100th person to cross the bridge?
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#113 Aug 20 2013 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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Valkayree wrote:
KingAlkaiser wrote:

no offense man but you calling people with over 100 post(more than half of the reply on this thread) on the forums ( trolls ) when you only have 3 makes you look funny saying this.
welcome to forums/internet indeed this is fansite for FF14 but this does not = a cult or prison, people have the right to voice their opinions whether good or bad. OP made a legitimate opinion on the game and politely voiced his thought on the game. If you did not like thread you could choose to simply not read or be a part of it.
your reply sounds like you are crying someone does not agree with your view of the game and doesn't want people to see this. Whiteknight or fanboy'ism ftw i guess lol.


You are correct, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but post count is not equivalent to troll behavior. Would a troll suddenly stop being a troll once he ate the 100th person to cross the bridge?


Surely he'd evolve into an upstanding citizen.
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#114 Aug 20 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Teracide wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
KingAlkaiser wrote:

no offense man but you calling people with over 100 post(more than half of the reply on this thread) on the forums ( trolls ) when you only have 3 makes you look funny saying this.
welcome to forums/internet indeed this is fansite for FF14 but this does not = a cult or prison, people have the right to voice their opinions whether good or bad. OP made a legitimate opinion on the game and politely voiced his thought on the game. If you did not like thread you could choose to simply not read or be a part of it.
your reply sounds like you are crying someone does not agree with your view of the game and doesn't want people to see this. Whiteknight or fanboy'ism ftw i guess lol.


You are correct, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but post count is not equivalent to troll behavior. Would a troll suddenly stop being a troll once he ate the 100th person to cross the bridge?


Surely he'd evolve into an upstanding citizen.


As evidenced by the rate downs my previous post had received...

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 12:24pm by Valkayree
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#115 Aug 20 2013 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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Teracide wrote:

Surely he'd evolve into an upstanding citizen.


Sadly, the B button has been locked down into the pressed position through years of hardcore button mashing.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 12:58pm by Hyrist
#116 Aug 20 2013 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Teracide wrote:

Surely he'd evolve into an upstanding citizen.


Sadly, the B button has been locked down into the pressed position through years of hardcore button mashing.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 12:58pm by Hyrist


I believe the technical term is Dynastywarrioratosis.
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#117 Aug 20 2013 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Valkayree wrote:
Teracide wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
KingAlkaiser wrote:

no offense man but you calling people with over 100 post(more than half of the reply on this thread) on the forums ( trolls ) when you only have 3 makes you look funny saying this.
welcome to forums/internet indeed this is fansite for FF14 but this does not = a cult or prison, people have the right to voice their opinions whether good or bad. OP made a legitimate opinion on the game and politely voiced his thought on the game. If you did not like thread you could choose to simply not read or be a part of it.
your reply sounds like you are crying someone does not agree with your view of the game and doesn't want people to see this. Whiteknight or fanboy'ism ftw i guess lol.


You are correct, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but post count is not equivalent to troll behavior. Would a troll suddenly stop being a troll once he ate the 100th person to cross the bridge?


Surely he'd evolve into an upstanding citizen.


As evidenced by the rate downs my previous post has received...


Contrary to above, i've been a part of the ZAM/Allakhazam community since 2003. My old account Izonthrall, lets just say its been so long since i've used it I can't remember the email address i registered as. I got tired of trying to figure out my old account info so I created a new one. There it is...

Main quote here
Quote:

your reply sounds like you are crying someone does not agree with your view of the game and doesn't want people to see this. Whiteknight or fanboy'ism ftw i guess lol.


I believe you have it backwards. The dialog i put is someone professing their interest in something, while the other person is constantly trying to seed doubt because of his/her own interest hence the title of the thread. Simply put if you like something play it, if not than don't.The OP has a legit statement, if he isn't satisfied with the game then that is it. There is nothing we can do to change it.

Me being an old FFXI player, I know everything about what that game offered, I've experienced the joy and pain. I think square confused their audience with the game sharing a lot of characteristics like XI (like races, jobs, etc). I don't know if any FFXI player assumes that this is the natural progression for their experience in SE online games. The last I saw SE is still pumping content into FFXI.... see now you got me talking about XI where I was really trying hard to not make this a relational response like so many other people did. I stand my ground, this is a new IP and if anyone liked what they have seen so far, then good lets collaborate an help each other out with these fine resources that ZAM is providing us. If you didn't like what you've seen, i'm sorry it turned out that way.

We still love you, I know personally its hard to fill that void that was a great gaming and community experience. I don't know maybe its age that is kicking in.
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#118 Aug 20 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Izonn wrote:


Contrary to above, i've been a part of the ZAM/Allakhazam community since 2003. My old account Izonthrall, lets just say its been so long since i've used it I can't remember the email address i registered as. I got tired of trying to figure out my old account info so I created a new one. There it is...



I agreed with your post. Your stance was correct in my opinion. I did not agree with KingAlkaiser that trolls are associated with low post #.
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#119 Aug 20 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Izonn wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
Teracide wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
KingAlkaiser wrote:

no offense man but you calling people with over 100 post(more than half of the reply on this thread) on the forums ( trolls ) when you only have 3 makes you look funny saying this.
welcome to forums/internet indeed this is fansite for FF14 but this does not = a cult or prison, people have the right to voice their opinions whether good or bad. OP made a legitimate opinion on the game and politely voiced his thought on the game. If you did not like thread you could choose to simply not read or be a part of it.
your reply sounds like you are crying someone does not agree with your view of the game and doesn't want people to see this. Whiteknight or fanboy'ism ftw i guess lol.


You are correct, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but post count is not equivalent to troll behavior. Would a troll suddenly stop being a troll once he ate the 100th person to cross the bridge?


Surely he'd evolve into an upstanding citizen.


As evidenced by the rate downs my previous post has received...


Contrary to above, i've been a part of the ZAM/Allakhazam community since 2003. My old account Izonthrall, lets just say its been so long since i've used it I can't remember the email address i registered as. I got tired of trying to figure out my old account info so I created a new one. There it is...

Main quote here
Quote:

your reply sounds like you are crying someone does not agree with your view of the game and doesn't want people to see this. Whiteknight or fanboy'ism ftw i guess lol.


I believe you have it backwards. The dialog i put is someone professing their interest in something, while the other person is constantly trying to seed doubt because of his/her own interest hence the title of the thread. Simply put if you like something play it, if not than don't.The OP has a legit statement, if he isn't satisfied with the game then that is it. There is nothing we can do to change it.

Me being an old FFXI player, I know everything about what that game offered, I've experienced the joy and pain. I think square confused their audience with the game sharing a lot of characteristics like XI (like races, jobs, etc). I don't know if any FFXI player assumes that this is the natural progression for their experience in SE online games. The last I saw SE is still pumping content into FFXI.... see now you got me talking about XI where I was really trying hard to not make this a relational response like so many other people did. I stand my ground, this is a new IP and if anyone liked what they have seen so far, then good lets collaborate an help each other out with these fine resources that ZAM is providing us. If you didn't like what you've seen, i'm sorry it turned out that way.

We still love you, I know personally its hard to fill that void that was a great gaming and community experience. I don't know maybe its age that is kicking in.


I still love you also ^^ lol ( and wow so many quotes on top of quotes on this one lol )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 2:23pm by KingAlkaiser

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 2:24pm by KingAlkaiser
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#120 Aug 20 2013 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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filth mcnasty.. about early ffxi... NOT TRUE i played ffxi at ps2 launch i mostly played mnk (2 hrs at the time) i got stuff done no issue. the only times i quit ffxi was due tpo payment issues (aka fights with my ex) the only time i quit by choice was over the communities solo and leech mantality over abyssea (saying they have a real life and can't play often) which was after the third was out a year and SOA was just revealed.

and i know why he was saying that.... I was more mentioning his crappy reply that what would be a 5 second fight for him was "not worth it" that if i needed help with abby stuff that he would help, again calling my lazy for asking to do what was a lvl 25 cap fight at 25. I personally don;t play mmo to solo... i got solo rpg for that. was my reply to him.

i got kicked outa the LS pretty much and just droped ffxi never touched it since i rather not see that in ffxiv.... that just plain rude to tell someone that.
#121 Aug 20 2013 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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I played WoW for 2 years tyvm... -.-

i was more commenting that ppl in WoW say the "i have a life" more then any other mmo i played, including MUD and runescape. And umm most item for me droped after the first or second try...

i wasn't talking about the token items I never did WoW end game due to the addon and voice chat requirement i wasn't able to do.
but in WoW here my experience

1) got left in the middle of a dungeon after ppl got their loot. They literaly said "well i got the item i needed cya"

2) was called a ***** by 5 people when i was a level 1 hume testing the server to see how the RP was. I was then given a 72 temp ban when i had to defend myself cuz i asked the forums why it happen. (they said i deserved it :/)

highest i got was 46 warlock blood elf.
on an ironic note...

I did suggest monk and neutral race choice that after the into you could pick which side to join. I was told both suggestions would never happen and are uneeded (this was during wrath)

looks at MoP.... ya XD
#122 Aug 20 2013 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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highest i got was 46 warlock blood elf.
on an ironic note...
Quote:
I never did WoW end game


Well sounds like you're definitely qualified to make blanket statements about how WoW works.

Listen.. if you have an argument to make, make it. You don't need the hyperbolic crap to make a point.

I've been playing MMOs since they were MUDs. I would never cite an example I hadn't seen first-hand. If you want to decry some players for wanting FFXIV to be zomgsupercasualezmode fine, but stick to what you KNOW to make your point.
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#123 Aug 20 2013 at 11:51 PM Rating: Decent
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WoW i did see the stupid "i have a life" bs in shouts
Maybe instead of assuming you know me or what i said ask what i mean. I'm not the best at communicating my thoughts so i use basic terms to get my point across. Alot of terms i used was subjective. And sorry but it did happen in WoW, ALOT of people made the "i have a real life" complaint (which i only saw in WoW).

I see no need or reason for people to be uppity about it, unless you was one of those people. I wasn't stating everyone did it, and I wasn't even bashing the game either.

I quit WoW because of the community not the game. But you can't deny that WoW players started the "i have a real life". I never saw that argument in ffxi early days, or MUDs.
heck even WoW youtubers made jokes about it. Thats the part i was trying to focus on.

Lastly and i'll try to make this clear. my statement was not about WoW but the WoW players who started the "i have a real life" mentality.
#124 Aug 21 2013 at 12:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Darkfae77 wrote:
I quit WoW because of the community not the game. But you can't deny that WoW players started the "i have a real life". I never saw that argument in ffxi early days, or MUDs.


To be fair, and I think most early players of FFXI would agree, many of the people who decided it wasn't the game for them because they had other responsibilities realized it and quit well before they made it to Jeuno. The learning and leveling curve was such that I would wager people figured out if they wanted to play or quit by the time they unlocked their sub-job or earlier.

There were days that I had a few hours to play, but upon logging in and typing '/sea all inv 46-48' I decided there was something else better I could do with my time in game. I leveled up fishing in FFXI, not be cause I enjoyed it, but because it was something I could do on my own time and terms while still being logged in so I could still talk to friends or be available if anyone needed help.

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a game developer to realize that people feel rewarded by getting things done in a reasonable amount of time.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#125 Aug 21 2013 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
highest i got was 46 warlock blood elf.
on an ironic note...
Quote:
I never did WoW end game


Well sounds like you're definitely qualified to make blanket statements about how WoW works.

Listen.. if you have an argument to make, make it. You don't need the hyperbolic crap to make a point.

I've been playing MMOs since they were MUDs. I would never cite an example I hadn't seen first-hand. If you want to decry some players for wanting FFXIV to be zomgsupercasualezmode fine, but stick to what you KNOW to make your point.

i did, i never stated end game in my comment. There are more to mmo then endgame. There should be challange before end game. My comment was about WoW players who said "i have a real life" then insult actual gamers saying they are neckbeards who live in mommies basement and are virgins and have no life.
And there are more rewards outside of endgame which reward is a broad term.. for all u know i could be saying the exp for quests.
#126 Aug 21 2013 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
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And i played ffxi from 2004-2005 with 2 hrs a day 5 days a week. (pretty much when my bro was in school since we shared a ps2)
what i got done in 2 hrs time

joined parties as a monk.
joined parties as a red mage
did subjob quest
did rank missions
I never waited on anything in ffxi. I formed my own parties if needed. Or i asked friends in advance for help with something the next time i logged in. I never had any issue playing ffxi with 2 play times.
When i got my own ps2 and router to play i was playing 20 hrs a day. Most of that time i ran around jeuno aimlessly chatting with my LS or trying to get leaping/bounding boots. (which took me 7 years to get cuz either i didn't get claim or it didn't drop)

Hate to say it but, when playing a game with real people sometimes you gotta scedual stuff.
#127 Aug 21 2013 at 1:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Darkfae77 wrote:
And i played ffxi from 2004-2005 with 2 hrs a day 5 days a week. (pretty much when my bro was in school since we shared a ps2)
what i got done in 2 hrs time

joined parties as a monk.
joined parties as a red mage
did subjob quest
did rank missions
I never waited on anything in ffxi. I formed my own parties if needed. Or i asked friends in advance for help with something the next time i logged in. I never had any issue playing ffxi with 2 play times.
When i got my own ps2 and router to play i was playing 20 hrs a day. Most of that time i ran around jeuno aimlessly chatting with my LS or trying to get leaping/bounding boots. (which took me 7 years to get cuz either i didn't get claim or it didn't drop)

Hate to say it but, when playing a game with real people sometimes you gotta scedual stuff.

Fair enough, but it shouldn't be hard to understand why people sometimes just want to play a game. The average exp group wasn't hard to put together, but it did take time and effort. Getting half a dozen people together at a camp for an experience point grind isn't a big deal for some people, but others want something they can just jump into immediately. FFXI wasn't a game people were used to and it wasn't your typical 'Press Start' game that you could dive right into.

Getting 5 other people to show up for exp or missions is fairly easy. Organizing scores of people to come together for dynamis or splitting your LS up into several groups to farm sky triggers... completely different story.
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30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#128 Aug 21 2013 at 1:59 AM Rating: Good
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What does an MMORPG offer over a single player game if not it's ability to connect people to a consistent world of adventure and fun? See, I believe what today's MMORPG market lacks is connectivity. You have things like duty finder to find yourself a party in all hours of the day and that's good, it stops people having to spend hours looking for a group, but where is the social connectivity?

Please correct me if I'm wrong OP but that is one of the major issues you see with the current game is it not? The in inability to stay connected with those you come in contact with?

Duty finder is something that didn't exist in XI and everyone you met you knew were part of that world, you knew you could befriend them if you wanted and engage in other activities with them. You meet someone in a dungeon and want to befriend them in this game? Hopefully they are on the same server.

Why can't they introduce cross server friend lists and linkshells? Why can't they focus on making more instanced events for endgame that allow you to pick and choose players from other servers?

As for the level curve, I'm inclined to agree with the OP, it should take longer. This, however, I realize is only an opinion because I believe the fun is in the journey. The loss in experience points however I believe should never be introduced again. Please, just no..

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 4:03am by CupDeNoodles
#129 Aug 21 2013 at 3:15 AM Rating: Decent
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#130 Aug 21 2013 at 7:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Getting 5 other people to show up for exp or missions is fairly easy. Organizing scores of people to come together for dynamis or splitting your LS up into several groups to farm sky triggers... completely different story.
____________

this is how easy that is. (week in advance)
/lsmes Time: (set time) Meet up (set meet up) Sky run/dynamis run /tell (leader) for invite/questions

I knew leaders in ffxi who only played 3hrs a day and still ran Endgame LS's.
MMO very much was a "press start and play" if you allowed it with sceduals and the like. It never was met for the lazy player who wanted everything set up for them.

I personally feel a certain game open the genre too much to a crowd who shouldn't play mmo. As this crowd is infact changing MMORPG into something that they shouldn't be. Which is mainly solo'ed games with little to no grouping or stuff that you may need/want to group for.
I enjoyed and miss that aspect of ffxi. I play single player rpg to solo.
Its hard to group not cuz how many solo only
#131 Aug 21 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Darkfae77 wrote:
Getting 5 other people to show up for exp or missions is fairly easy. Organizing scores of people to come together for dynamis or splitting your LS up into several groups to farm sky triggers... completely different story.
____________

this is how easy that is. (week in advance)
/lsmes Time: (set time) Meet up (set meet up) Sky run/dynamis run /tell (leader) for invite/questions

I knew leaders in ffxi who only played 3hrs a day and still ran Endgame LS's.
MMO very much was a "press start and play" if you allowed it with sceduals and the like. It never was met for the lazy player who wanted everything set up for them.

I personally feel a certain game open the genre too much to a crowd who shouldn't play mmo. As this crowd is infact changing MMORPG into something that they shouldn't be. Which is mainly solo'ed games with little to no grouping or stuff that you may need/want to group for.
I enjoyed and miss that aspect of ffxi. I play single player rpg to solo.
Its hard to group not cuz how many solo only


I'm curious here, how many hours per day did you have to play to get you into a position so that you could only log on for 3 hrs a day and get an endgame raid or whatever done?

I say that because if you only logged into ffxi for 3 hrs a day from level 1 it would take years to get to the level cap. It's not just grinding, its also bs like the chocobo license quest, story missions, nm farming for money or gear, etc (unless that stuff was just given to you). There are enormous time sinks in FFXI such that you could spend hours in the game attemptimg to get somethimg done and still come out empty handed.

Now are you saying all MMOs should be like that?
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#132 Aug 21 2013 at 7:55 PM Rating: Default
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most stuff in ffxi took roughly 3 hours to do if not less. ffxi had no "raids" and some of the bigger content had save points (nyzul isle) Dynamis was a 3 hour event. sky as much time you would like. You had farm days then run days. Ypu cpuld even buy the pop items if u so choose. I never farmed for gil personally yet still had gear just fine.

Also playing 3 hrs a day didn't take years to hit cap. My brother played 2 hrs and got to 38 drg rank 5 fairly quickly. (less then a year)

Its all about setting up a plan with ur friends, logging off in said locations then going to do the content. People generaly over exaggerate when it comes to mmo "waiting" cuz they are idiots about it and do the afk wait for a party. They don;t actively ask leaders or form a party or use that time waiting to do other things.
#133 Aug 21 2013 at 8:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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ffxi had no "raids"


It's reasonable to call Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar, Nyzul Isle, etc raids.

The term hadn't been popularized when FFXI was new. But let's call a duck a duck.
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#134 Aug 21 2013 at 9:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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But you lost exp when you were doing Dynamis right. Smiley: tinfoilhat
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#135 Aug 21 2013 at 10:10 PM Rating: Default
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hence the quotation around raids. As in they were raids but not the assumed term of WoW or w/e mmo used the term raid first.

What i'm trying and to and have been tryong to say is mmo never forced you to say on for hours. That was choice of the players. I got stuff done under 2 hrs tackling things when i was able.

Also you are the only one restricting yourself, i knew ppl who had familys full time jobs who could play 5+ hrs a day. But mostly i'm also saying i'm tired of seeing the "i have a job wife kid i can't play as much anymore" Cuz realistically in my mind i think well um thats nice, but I don;t really care..... Play when u can no need to share a somewhat lame excuse as to why a game needs to cater to ur schedual, when no one is forcing u to play hours on end. Not even the game. Does it really matter when you hit cap? cuz as long as you play regardless you will get there. I'm the type to understand ppl have lives off the game and things come up. I don;t make a stink if a person has to go mid run.
#136 Aug 21 2013 at 10:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Darkfae77 wrote:
Also playing 3 hrs a day didn't take years to hit cap. My brother played 2 hrs and got to 38 drg rank 5 fairly quickly. (less then a year)

Your example does not support your statement. TNLs drastically shot up once you hit level 50. It took 149,750 exp total to get from 1 to 38. You needed over 800k exp total hit 75. That means 1 to 38 is only one-fifth of the way to the old cap of 75, not one-half. Unless your brother got to lvl 38 in less then 3 months, maintaining that rate would have meant taking years to hit cap.

Granted, once ToAU came out, the exp rate for really shot up if you could get certain camps and do TP burns. But not every job fit well into a TP burn party. Which brings us back to waiting for a group. If you were a DD that could deal piercing damage effectively in a TP burn setup or a BRD, you could probably get into a group easily and get up to cap fairly quickly. But if you were one of a dozen jobs that didn't fit well into a TP burn pt, it was going to be a slow journey. Contacting party leaders would probably mean just getting turned down because you weren't the right job. And even if you decided to form your own group, you probably weren't going to maintain the mythical ultimate uber exp rate people tossed around because all it took was one other party to roll into the camp to bring the exp chain to a halt.
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#137 Aug 21 2013 at 11:55 PM Rating: Default
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not everyone in ffxi was picky and there were other places to lvl then colibri. So really might want to think outside the box a bit, look at thing from other prospectives.

Your basing things on alot of misconception ppl had in ffxi and mmo ingeneral, and trust me i know about the exp needed to get to 75. i rerolled 72 times. hit max cap 8 times over 5 different characters in my 7-8 year span of ffxi. And to be frank.. i'm not the type to complain it taking years to level to max. As long as i have something to do i'll log on to an mmo.
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