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Does anybody else in here...feel the way I do?Follow

#1 Aug 18 2013 at 6:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know. I feel that the Arcanist has destroyed the party mechanic. It seems way too powerful. I was running the dungeons as a tank and couldn't keep hate on anything due to that **** pet. It must have uber enmity generation. Now, this normally wouldn't be a problem, but there are a good bit of fights where positioning the boss and mobs dynamically is either essential or preferable. This is not possible with an AI tank. For example, I was trying to lure the slimes into the bombs, but couldn't get the hate off of the pet in order to do it. What is everyone else's view on this.

Oh, and another thing. How the **** can I turn off targeting with a controller on the **** pets. I can't find an exclusive option to turn it off. It always defaults on those **** things when targeting. Then when there are 50 of them around on a FATE, you can't get anything targeted unless you cycle through all 50 of them. :\

A little off-topic here, but has anyone else been having sound issues? Everything will be okay for me until I'm in the game for an extended amount of time, but then all of a sudden, everything goes silent. Nothing short of restarting the client fixes it. Not even going back to the log in screen.
#2 Aug 18 2013 at 6:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Sound issue I've had as well. Only way I've found to fix it is to close the client and restart it.
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#3 Aug 18 2013 at 6:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Phew! And there I was thinking I was the only one who hated the little buggers.
As a healer, those **** squirrels are practically always in my way unless I
actively dodge them by running around the group of mobs we are fighting.

And for the record: we had exactly the same situation with the slimes just
yesterday. Stupid pet pulling hate off the tank.

It's o.k. that they make arcanist strong for now, because of all the "shiny
new class" hype. But with cure taken form WHM, I suppose the class can
damage AND tank AND heal, ant that's where we start having a problem.

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 8:56am by Rinsui
#4 Aug 18 2013 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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It would be nice if people dimiss carbuncle when in town , I find it a PITA to target quest npc's sometimes.
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#5 Aug 18 2013 at 6:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the pet has a threat tool. Not sure b.c the DPS definitely isn't huge for ACN took forever to get through a dungeon with 2 ACNs.
#6 Aug 18 2013 at 6:59 AM Rating: Good
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I'm sure the class needs some fine-tuning. It is either going to be too weak or too strong, so I guess we know now.
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#7 Aug 18 2013 at 7:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't ran with one yet. I know the tank in the DF that I did run, couldn't hold aggro to save his life (or mine). The last boss became a Benny Hill montage when I was forced to pop Sprint and run for my life with Denn The Orcatoothed chasing closely behind.

SE should probably consider giving the tank classes a bit more enmity generation.
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#8 Aug 18 2013 at 7:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Teracide wrote:
I haven't ran with one yet. I know the tank in the DF that I did run, couldn't hold aggro to save his life (or mine). The last boss became a Benny Hill montage when I was forced to pop Sprint and run for my life with Denn The Orcatoothed chasing closely behind.

SE should probably consider giving the tank classes a bit more enmity generation.


You either had a new player trying tanking, someone playing MRD thinking it was DD or simply a bad tank. I can hold hate just fine with other classes, with GLD or MRD, just not with that **** pet. He steals it from me with one hit, even after I've been going at it for a while. It needs nerfed back, big time. There is no way it should ever get more hate than a dedicated tank.

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 9:07am by DragonBourne
#9 Aug 18 2013 at 7:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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DragonBourne wrote:
Teracide wrote:
I haven't ran with one yet. I know the tank in the DF that I did run, couldn't hold aggro to save his life (or mine). The last boss became a Benny Hill montage when I was forced to pop Sprint and run for my life with Denn The Orcatoothed chasing closely behind.

SE should probably consider giving the tank classes a bit more enmity generation.


You either had a new player trying tanking, someone playing MRD thinking it was DD or simply a bad tank. I can hold hate just fine with other classes, with GLD or MRD, just not with that **** pet. He steals it from me with one hit, even after I've been going at it for a while. It needs nerfed back, big time. There is no way it should ever get more hate than a dedicated tank.

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 9:07am by DragonBourne


Wouldn't it make sense for the pet to generate only 'slightly' more enmity than the ACN themselves? Maybe have the ACN's abilities generate enmity on Carbuncle instead of them. Having him pull generate more enmity than an actual tank is a bit silly.

I'm sure SE will iron that one out soon enough.
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#10 Aug 18 2013 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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This kind of thing is why the class needs testing. There was zero chance it was going to be properly balanced out of the gate. The best thing you can do is provide constructive feedback on the issues you're seeing (avoid phrases like "destroyed the party mechanic.")
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#11 Aug 18 2013 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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I ran all three dungeons with varying tanks. Generally it was the tanks that were inexperienced that struggled to keep hate. Was it the Topaz (gold coloured) Carby that they were using? These have enmity generating actions that can steal hate but a good tank should be able to keep it. I didn't try tanking with an ACN in my party though so I don't have the same experience. I noticed that when fighting if my pet started to take hate I could always release it and get my emerald carby out to dps from a safe distance. SE nearly always bring out patches for new jobs/classes so they will probably nerf it soon if enough people complain.
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#12 Aug 18 2013 at 7:57 AM Rating: Decent
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not trying to be rude but are u guys new with tanking or new to the game? im running ARC and my brother is Glad tanking we ran all dungeons 20+ times some times even with 2 carbies and he never once lost hate to a carby. to me the class feel very very weak compared to my others classes. oh and also when u loosing agro is it to the blue carbuncle or yellow, cuz yellow carby is a tank.
#13 Aug 18 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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EdyNOTB wrote:
I ran all three dungeons with varying tanks. Generally it was the tanks that were inexperienced that struggled to keep hate. Was it the Topaz (gold coloured) Carby that they were using? These have enmity generating actions that can steal hate but a good tank should be able to keep it. I didn't try tanking with an ACN in my party though so I don't have the same experience. I noticed that when fighting if my pet started to take hate I could always release it and get my emerald carby out to dps from a safe distance. SE nearly always bring out patches for new jobs/classes so they will probably nerf it soon if enough people complain.


wow u beat me to it but yes you r right theres no way in **** I can pull hate off a tank with arc class seems very weak to me lol and my noob brother that just started the game for the first time never had problems. again not trying to be rude.
#14 Aug 18 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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Arcanist is not a problem if the person knows what is doing. First is the Carbu color blue or yellow? I been running as a Arcanist I mine never took hate away since I run with my blue Carbu which is DPS and stays by me. If you run in with the yellow one, he is a Tank Pet which will take hate away from the tank.

A couple or runs I ran as my CJN and I ask the Arcanist to switch to their blue Carbu for better DPS and so far nobody had a problem. People just need to learn their mechanics and don't be afraid to talk.
#15 Aug 18 2013 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Why the **** did the SMN have Topaz out for one, then why the **** did he have it attacking the slimes?

I partied with one who insisted on using Topaz, and when he FINALLY switched over, things went much smoother and mobs died much quicker.

Time and a place for Topaz, but it is not in a light duty dungeon.
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#16 Aug 18 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
This is the WoW Hunter class pet problem all over again. Hunters sometimes forget to turn their pet to DPS when they enter a dungeon because they have been soloing out in the world with their pet as a tank. The pet will taunt and pull aggro from the tank and many tears are shed, and the forums erupt in hate filled posts.
It sounds like the Arcanists in question either aren't paying attention to which Carbuncle they have out or they don't care. If you enter a dungeon and you see a yellow Carby, just ask them to switch to the dps one before anything else happens.
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#17 Aug 18 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Topaz carbuncle is more for solo, Emerald is the caster. does more damage and doesn't take hate off the tank.
#18 Aug 18 2013 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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During the first boss in Copperbell mines, a person had their Topaz (Yellow/Gold) Carbuncle out, and while for the adds, it didn't make a big deal. It pulled off me, during the boss fight. Then healer got hate. Couldn't get it off, because it switched from Topaz to healer to Topaz. I was really frustrated. lol

Thankfully they did remove it for the slime fight. *sigh of relief*

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 10:45am by HarukaTenoh
#19 Aug 18 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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You can filter out the Carbuncles in the targetting option. I was having tons of issues with that. I think they should make them untargettable by default.

But yeah, Arcanist seems kind of OP. Probably because it's able to branch off into a total healer and a DPS, it might be a little too versatile.

This is the first test for Arcanist so I'm sure that balancing is one of the things they're looking at. It will probably be nerfed. And yeah, Carbuncle does generate a lot of enmity.

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 11:00am by Killua125
#20 Aug 18 2013 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
You can filter out the Carbuncles in the targetting option. I was having tons of issues with that. I think they should make them untargettable by default.

But yeah, Arcanist seems kind of OP. Probably because it's able to branch off into a total healer and a DPS, it might be a little too versatile.

This is the first test for Arcanist so I'm sure that balancing is one of the things they're looking at. It will probably be nerfed. And yeah, Carbuncle does generate a lot of enmity.

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 11:00am by Killua125

Any idea exactly where that setting is or what it's called? The only thing I could see that came close is NPC/Objects, but I don't want to have that turned off, just the pets. I'm hoping for something exclusive to just them and nothing else. As for people above stating it due to bad tanking, I ran 3 previous betas with no tanking problems whatsoever and now this (they were gold carbs, btw) so I don't think that is a legitimate response, do you?

Oh, and good feedback, as usual, Callinon. I wasn't trying to sound frustrated by saying 'destroyed the party mechanic'. That was just the best way I could sum it up in the most candycoated terms. :)
#21 Aug 18 2013 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Deleted because I forgot I'd already responded.

Whoops.

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 4:39pm by FlixEffect
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#22 Aug 18 2013 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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ACN is a DPS and should be using BLUE Carby in dungeons. BLUE Carby does not have enmity+ attacks and does more damage.

Eventually the player base will learn that. Topaz does need to be toned down, but only on the AoE threat really, I had no problems keeping single target threat even against Topaz.
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#23 Aug 18 2013 at 6:06 PM Rating: Good
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Eventually the player base will learn that.


Every voidwalker and growling pet I had to tank against in WoW disagrees with you there.
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#24 Aug 18 2013 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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Depends, the first dungeon (Satasha) I had a very good tank who actually marked the mobs in order of attack so we can support him. It was a flawless run.
The second dungeon (Tam-tara) the tank wasn't very good, he didn't mark nor did he manage to keep hate). He even died at one of the mini-boss and thanks to Topaz Carby we managed to clear it without a hitch.
The third dungeon (Copperbell) was good, no problem in killing the slime since the ACN stopped the pet from attacking Slime and Bomb and only attack Spriggan.
All three runs were with ACN. It boils down to the player more. You can customise targeting filter so you don't have to target the pet you know.
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#25 Aug 18 2013 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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I can't sympathize :( I ran with an ACN and BLM last night as my MRD and I had no problems keeping hate.

Best suggestion would be to ask the ACN to let the tank handle things during key fights and micro the pet more. There are robust commands for that little guy, which should help the good ACN's stand out more from the bad.

But the bad ones can be pitas for sure.
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#26 Aug 18 2013 at 8:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I only managed a handful of runs before getting locked out by the 1017 issues going around but I have yet to see an ACN pull hate off a tank, though to be honest I wasn't paying attention to which carby they were using. I did have an ACN in every single run though. It's a bit early to see if they're going to be OP or not... we really need to see how they scale, how strong they are at level 15-20 is really a small portion of the game.

To answer the OP's other question: I haven't had a single sound issue on my desktop (win8), laptop (win7) or the wife's laptop (win8). Could be an isolated/outdated driver issue maybe or a particular sound card perhaps?
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#27 Aug 18 2013 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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This is solely an issue with the arcanist playing in your group, not the mechanics of arcanist itself really. As others have stated previously, if you are a decent tank, the ARC should have the blue carby out for dps. The only time I ever bring out the yellow carby when in an instance is when I feel the tank is completely incapable of holding aggro, and I appreciate having the option to do so as carby in the hands of a skilled arcanist can make a dungeon go extremely smooth.
#28 Aug 18 2013 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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I get the sound issues after being logged in for a really long time. Gets annoying. Have to completely exit the game and come back for it to return to normal.
#29 Aug 18 2013 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I always use emerald carby during FATES and guildleves(no chance to do dungeons due to the 90000 error). Played warlock during my WoW time so I know to switch to "DPS" pet/turn growl off lol

Edited, Aug 18th 2013 11:58pm by SuikodenXXX
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#30 Aug 18 2013 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
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As a arcanist, i was using the topaz for soloing mostly, but i would use topaz in SAS dungeons. BUT, i only used it to kite around the other mobs to keep them off the CNJ. This did require some micro-managing. I would use topaz to assist the tank but hardly ever did topaz pull a mob off the tank.

The first time i used the emerald one the carby did it's special and shot the mob into a group that then linked it to us, lesson learned there.

I believe that arcanist is fine, i just feel people will need to learn to use it. And seeing how the job is literally brand new, i think others need to stop screaming their heads off about how the job is screwed up. Give people time to learn it, atleast more then 3 days.
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#31 Aug 18 2013 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
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Thank you everyone for the feedback. It seems this is a mixed bag. I agree with most people that a lot will depend on the person in control rather than the class itself. Regardless though, I do look for some tweaking of the class in the near future. It seems a bit too versatile to find a secure place in an MMO. Perhaps a single player spin-off featuring the all powerful Arcanist is in order, SE? :P Final Fantasy XIII-4 or XIV-2, you decide!
#32 Aug 18 2013 at 10:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Acn felts semi-OP, but I have to ask.. was the Acn using a Blue or and Orange carby?

Orange Carby is the tank and uses provoke-like moves. I think you had one of those... Blue Carby is the mage version and shouldn't be ripping hate since dmg is split.
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#33 Aug 19 2013 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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As a MRD who tanked all 4 instances of the Beta with ACNs, I can safely say that it's either:

1) The ACN isn't really assisting because a Pikarbuncle should NOT take single target aggro.
2) The tank isn't marking which brings us to 1.

To be honest, though, we have an aggroed mobs window. Even if the tank isn't marking, it's easy to see which target is going down first. I personally am able to deal with Pikarbuncles (though I don't understand why I should have to... Seriously, 5 seconds cast, do it. Its "AoE damage" is generally meaningless, and even more so on bosses). The only time I really, really hate them is when:

Someone in the group runs ahead of the tank which is already chain pulling crap, and/or starts attacking before the tank pulled. Now the tank is already in emergency enmity mode. The ACN sicks his taunting pet on a target which isn't the main assist, AND that target happens to like doing frontal AoEs! Well guess what, the mob turns around to kill the Pikarbuncle, and casts his AoE on the group. GG.

It's not necessarily about just the tank being able to fight with a pet for aggro. It's about NOT NEEDING TO because it provides close to zero benefits and only strains the tank for no reason. When you think about it, in the grand scheme of things, wasting enmity cooldowns on a mob because a freaking pet taunted is so dumb. Specially in this game where Voke is on an 40 seconds CD (Yes, FOURTY). And then what? The healer should keep the pet up? The ACN should waste GCDs healing his own pet (sacrificing HP which could lead to having the healer heal the ACN)?

There is just no point to it. It's a quality of life thing and almost a respect thing. Why do something that's annoying to others for no real benefit? Just be a good ACN, and pull out your Emerald at the beginning of the instance. The healer has to cast Protect anyway so you're hardly wasting other people's time. You are in fact HELPING others be 100% in control of the situation.

Edited, Aug 19th 2013 2:10am by kirzansix
#34 Aug 19 2013 at 12:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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kirzansix wrote:
As a MRD who tanked all 4 instances of the Beta with ACNs, I can safely say that it's either:

1) The ACN isn't really assisting because a Pikarbuncle should NOT take single target aggro.
2) The tank isn't marking which brings us to 1.

To be honest, though, we have an aggroed mobs window. Even if the tank isn't marking, it's easy to see which target is going down first. I personally am able to deal with Pikarbuncles (though I don't understand why I should have to... Seriously, 5 seconds cast, do it. Its "AoE damage" is crap.). The only time I really, really hate them is when:

Someone in the group runs ahead of the tank which is already chain pulling crap, and/or starts attacking before the tank pulled. Now the tank is already in emergency enmity mode. The ACN sicks his taunting pet on a target which isn't the main assist, AND that target happens to like doing frontal AoEs! Well guess what, the mob turns around to kill the Pikarbuncle, and casts his AoE on the group. GG.

It's not necessarily about just the tank being able to fight with a pet for aggro. It's about NOT NEEDING TO because it provides close to zero benefits and only strains the tank for no reason. When you think about it, in the grand scheme of things, wasting enmity cooldowns on a mob because a freaking pet taunted is so dumb. Specially in this game where Voke is on an 18 seconds CD. And then what? The healer should keep the pet up? The ACN should waste GCDs healing his own pet (sacrificing HP which could lead to having the healer heal the ACN)?

There is just no point to it. It's a quality of life thing and almost a respect thing. Why do something that's annoying to others for no real benefit? Just be a good ACN, and pull out your Emerald at the beginning of the instance. The healer has to cast Protect anyway so you're hardly wasting other people's time. You are in fact HELPING others be 100% in control of the situation.

Edited, Aug 19th 2013 2:04am by kirzansix


I find it interesting people are speaking of marking. The few times I did try this, the DD's had rushed in and pulled everything before I even got the first one marked. I barely had time to type anything in party chat before they were off pulling the next group. I gave up trying after a while, because it was just harder for me to run around and get all the mobs back. Most times, as a tank, if feels you are always on edge when trying to do anything for fear that you'll have to chase mobs around to get hate back on you. I can't even equip better gear from chests, not enough time. Have to wait til the run is over. I agree that marking is essential, but I don't expect it to be a viable option in PUG's, due to mosts impatient nature. Once game is out and people start getting a solid foundation of trusted acquaintances, this will be less of an issue, but until then, it is what it is.
#35 Aug 19 2013 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent
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not many here played ffxi did you?

we had a few pet classes and most where considered lol like I'm a moron I'm a moron. Summoner couldn't use their pets early on because their mp pool.
Try to maximise the use of carby rather fighting against it. Use the carby as a second tank and clear dungeons faster. Let it tank 1 of the slims and tank tanks the other and let one of the dd pull bombs to the slims.

In ffxi a well geared pup can really be helpful as it can tank, heal, debuff or nuke just as well as a player.

If you form a shout party and no pld gld mrd or war are arround you have arc who can use carby to tank.

asking a nerf might ruin that potential and the job become lolANC.


When i tried ANC for a lil i didn't feel it was OP. It felt like WoW ranger class. too big of a nerf and you kill the Anc solo ability. Carby is used to keep the player safe while solo... we have a BOOK for a weapon. Did you see the melee dmg of it? it was pretty low. Best bet is spaming ruin till carby.
#36 Aug 19 2013 at 6:58 AM Rating: Decent
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LOL so typing lol pup = I'm a moron? XD
#37 Aug 19 2013 at 6:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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LOL so typing lol pup = I'm a moron? XD


Smiley: laugh

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#38 Aug 19 2013 at 7:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Basically, Topaz Carbuncle shouldnt be used in a party if you have a tank. People using it are just new players who dont know that.

I had an acn who refused to switch, saying "No this one is higher level so it's better." They clearly didn't understand they were different types, and one wasn't better, but situational.
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