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tank shortage or heal shortage?Follow

#1 Aug 19 2013 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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So yoshi-p says there is a tank shortage, but I suspect he is talking about JP since I've only experienced instant queues as heals not tank. What do y'all think?
#2 Aug 19 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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Instant queues popped for me whilst tanking, it was faster than when I started with CNJ. Regardless, both were so fast you didn't have time to do anything after queuing.
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#3 Aug 19 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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DPS will always out number healers and tanks therefore there is a shortage of both.
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#4 Aug 19 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Must be nice.... 30-60 minute queues (sometimes longer) for DPS were no fun...
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#5 Aug 19 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I queue'ed as healer once this weekend, for the Sastasha dungeon, and it took about 5 seconds to form a light party.
Was on Sunday morning.
I doubt any of our individual experiences reflect anything though. I suppose Yoshi would know best.
The dungeon was fun and enjoyable for a starter dungeon.
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#6 Aug 19 2013 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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#7 Aug 19 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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If I hadn't hit cap on CNJ I would have done many more dungeon runs to help out with that. I may level GLA before working more on THM just to help the queues.
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#8 Aug 19 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is exactly why/how i leveled my CNJ to 20 so quickly. TONS of ARN running around and the longest i was enrolled in the duty finder was 2 mins, max. I was trying to join as a ARN earlier then once i noticed all the /shouting going on in regards to the lack of tanks/healers, i wisely moved to CNJ.

Does anyone know if they will allow players to set what role they are going to fill when using the duty finder?? I'm asking because it seems like ARN could file as a healer rather then a dps depending on if they've attached class abilities from CNJ.

Edited, Aug 19th 2013 1:51pm by RyanSquires
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#9 Aug 19 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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I'm sure Yoshi-P is posting based on actual data. Every instance queue popped for me on tank in under 10 seconds.

Even when I had my friend with me (he's a DPS) we were able to get an instance match in under 10 seconds.

If you're in solo queue on DPS though, it's been taking 30 min+, because of all the Arcanists.
#10 Aug 19 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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@ryansquires, the game chooses your role for you. Arcanist cannot queue as heal but their advanced job scholar does. As a marauder, you can't join as DPs either even though almost all your low level abilities have nothing to do with tanking.
#11 Aug 19 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Default
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I found it curious that Yoshi would be qqing about lack of tanks. Were the jp players qqing about it? I have a lvl 20 mrd but only ran it for one dungeon Sastasha, because it hit 20 inside and didnt want to waste xp. Plus arcanist is my main, so why would I queue tank when I cant roll on any arcanist gear I need. He can blame his loot system for that
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#12 Aug 19 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Killua125 wrote:
I'm sure Yoshi-P is posting based on actual data. Every instance queue popped for me on tank in under 10 seconds.

Even when I had my friend with me (he's a DPS) we were able to get an instance match in under 10 seconds.

If you're in solo queue on DPS though, it's been taking 30 min+, because of all the Arcanists.

Its not all the arcanists (which is the only dps class LL has). Its all the dps (like Gridania with no tanks and 2 dps classes)
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#13 Aug 19 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ya, Duty Finder is a tad hard to balance in that respect, cause while one can say, put in a system where you can set your role. It might end up causing issues with the matchups if say an Arcanist decides to set themselves as a tank because of the lv 15 carbuncle and then they don't tank.

While I do agree at lower levels there should be a tad more leeway with party builds or rather players should have an option of party setups they don't mind working with like.

2 healer/2 DD
3 DD/1healer
4 DD
2 Tanks/1healer/1DD

Where basically they can checklist which setups they are ok with so that when they are doing the matchmaking it'll only match them up with the variables they decided.

So when they do get matched up in a party with 4 DD it's only because they asked for it.
#14 Aug 19 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Longuest I had on cnj was 15 seconds.

Also on a sidenote, this was experienced in Beta 3 (might have changed)

I was PUG and had a teammate already (THM). So we were a team of 2 DPS seeking through duty finder for a CopperBell Mine run. At the entrance, we see some other DPS and 2 Tank with they Duty Finder icons up.

We wait for 10 mins or so and get around to chat with one of the tank in /say at the door of coppermine. We get along very well and decided to form a party with him, even if it means closing Duty Finder and return to the end of the queues.

So we do it, invite the tank and activate Duty Finder again. 20 second later, we get into the run with a random healer through duty finder, even those the other DPS/tank were still looking for group at the door.

I think there is something with the matchmaking code that prefer perfect match. We were 2 DPS and 1 tank seeking. When the next healer solo came available, it was a perfect match and we got in.

This is just theories anyway, but it's what my guts feeling is telling me, (for what it's worth)
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#15 Aug 19 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Airget wrote:
Ya, Duty Finder is a tad hard to balance in that respect, cause while one can say, put in a system where you can set your role. It might end up causing issues with the matchups if say an Arcanist decides to set themselves as a tank because of the lv 15 carbuncle and then they don't tank.

While I do agree at lower levels there should be a tad more leeway with party builds or rather players should have an option of party setups they don't mind working with like.

2 healer/2 DD
3 DD/1healer
4 DD
2 Tanks/1healer/1DD

Where basically they can checklist which setups they are ok with so that when they are doing the matchmaking it'll only match them up with the variables they decided.

So when they do get matched up in a party with 4 DD it's only because they asked for it.


Best idea I've heard yet concerning making the Duty Finder better...

You should post something about this in the beta forums for feedback so that the dev team gets it.
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#16 Aug 19 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was a little disappointed with the idea of 4 man dungeons specifically because of this. 5-6 man would have been nice, 1 tank 1 healer and 3-4 dps and help clear out the dps queues a little faster.

But, I routinely play tanks so on that front I can't complain. In fact, after this weekend I may decide to switch up my primary to WAR and keep my SMN as a more solo used class.
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#17 Aug 19 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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Well I wish Marauders that just want to dps would stop getting insta-queues as tanks I think it is ok as it is. The duty finder should be a tool for people who don't have people to run things with, the better option should always be to put the party you want together with people you know.
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#18 Aug 19 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think Duty Finder can be improved significantly, it feels a bit rushed, while it's a great concept that all "modern" MMOs have, SQEnix should make it more impersonal.

Firstly you should be able to have an option to only queue with people on your server, so that you can use it to meet people on your server too. Next instead of shouting in town or your LS for help, maybe each dungeon should have a chat interface for everyone queued or wishing to queue. Maybe you'll meet an acquaintance and be like, ok I'll switch jobs for ya or something, or maybe you'll trade, like you tank this round, I'll tank the next round, and it'd be a great way to make friends.

To be honest, once I queued again as GLD, because I was appalled at how slow it took to queue as the THM I was leveling at the time, I switched to PLD and got a tank right away. Then I went back in feeling bad.

This reminds me of how it used to be though, in FFXI if you had a bit of time to spare you, sometimes perhaps you'd help someone, I don't wanna compare with FFXI since that's neither here or there, but lets look at Duties as they are, there's lots of potential there. I made a lot of friends this way, and met a lot of helpful people who'd I'd one day return the favor.

See my post on the dungeon feedback forum: http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/106777-Option-to-link-with-only-players-on-the-same-server - Vote up if you think the Duty Finder needs these improvements

Edited, Aug 19th 2013 2:45pm by SyniteonReflux
#19 Aug 19 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
When I was Lancer waiting in Duty finder, a good 45 minutes past and the only invite I got was from a disbanded party that only had an archer left.

The moment I party up with my wife who was Gladiator and did Duty finder, we got an invite in less than a minute.

She seemed to get all the loot to >.<
#20 Aug 19 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was in alot of parties where the lvl 15 Carby tanked the whole thing. An lets face it, I had cure and that's all that was needed so any DOM with cure could have run these. Time to think outside the DF box and reinvent it.
#21 Aug 19 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I queued as ACN for Sastasha, and it was about 35 minutes. When I went to Tam Tara I queued and jumped in the shower. Came out did some stuff and the timer was at 22 minutes. Decided to brush my teeth since I most likely had plenty of time left, and in that small window, THAT was when I missed my queue.
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#22 Aug 19 2013 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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I had trouble queing for Sas on saturday night; I was on duty finder for well over an hour. Frustrated, I decided to party up the old fashioned way and rolled in with 2 ACNs and 2 PUGs. It worked out well and felt like a normal party with the 2 carbys acting as tanks and the ACNs as CJNs.
#23 Aug 19 2013 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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I lvled my cnj to 20 and only did the instances once each for the quest. By the time I got to the ifirit fight I was macxed out so no reason to que more. Once its open lvling I will dungeon crawl.

I forget who said something about letting maruaders que as DPS is silly cuz there tanks only. If someonesays otherwise there mistaken.
#24 Aug 19 2013 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think some people are confusing easy dungeons with broken duty finder. I saw 3 cnj and 1 blm clear all dungeons, but I'm 100% confident that tanking carbuncles will get rocked in higher dungeons. For one, its a lot of work moving a tanking carb out of fire, and for 2, carbs won't have the defense cooldowns to survive big hits that are sure to come as part of harder dungeons.
#25 Aug 19 2013 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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silverhope wrote:
I lvled my cnj to 20 and only did the instances once each for the quest. By the time I got to the ifirit fight I was macxed out so no reason to que more. Once its open lvling I will dungeon crawl.

I forget who said something about letting maruaders que as DPS is silly cuz there tanks only. If someonesays otherwise there mistaken.

Yes you cant queue as dps as mrd. So if a mrd enters a dungeon with you through duty finder hed better tank
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#26 Aug 19 2013 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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That was my point I had a Marauder who didn't try to tank at all he was trying to dps and the enemies were going everywhere. People need to know the role they are playing and do it. I've also seen a Conjurer forget to heal cause they got to into dpsing.
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#27 Aug 19 2013 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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I agree. As a new mrd last beta, I couldn't tell that I was supposed to be tank from my abilities. Fortunately it was only a leve and not a dungeon.
#28 Aug 19 2013 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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Maarg wrote:
I agree. As a new mrd last beta, I couldn't tell that I was supposed to be tank from my abilities. Fortunately it was only a leve and not a dungeon.

Your abilities in the tool tip say generates aggro on most of them
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#29 Aug 19 2013 at 7:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ehllfire wrote:
Maarg wrote:
I agree. As a new mrd last beta, I couldn't tell that I was supposed to be tank from my abilities. Fortunately it was only a leve and not a dungeon.

Your abilities in the tool tip say generates aggro on most of them


I think the large axe is just generally misleading it screams DMG dealer
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#30 Aug 19 2013 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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S3ntin3L wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
Maarg wrote:
I agree. As a new mrd last beta, I couldn't tell that I was supposed to be tank from my abilities. Fortunately it was only a leve and not a dungeon.

Your abilities in the tool tip say generates aggro on most of them


I think the large axe is just generally misleading it screams DMG dealer


Yea, my wife thinks it's a DRK. Understandable when you look at the AF(?) armor in the character build screen.

Anyway, as Gladiator I got into dungeons within 30 seconds each time I registered. If I walked anywhere near one of the three dungeons, I would start getting invites/tells.
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#31 Aug 19 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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PyrielDD wrote:
That was my point I had a Marauder who didn't try to tank at all he was trying to dps and the enemies were going everywhere. People need to know the role they are playing and do it. I've also seen a Conjurer forget to heal cause they got to into dpsing.


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)
#32 Aug 19 2013 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Melody wrote:
PyrielDD wrote:
That was my point I had a Marauder who didn't try to tank at all he was trying to dps and the enemies were going everywhere. People need to know the role they are playing and do it. I've also seen a Conjurer forget to heal cause they got to into dpsing.


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)


My opinion on the matter is that CNJ shouldn't have to dps, but hopefully they have enough down time that they can from time to time. Spamming cure can't be fun all the time having the chance to smack something upside the head with stone has got to help the tedium.
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#33 Aug 19 2013 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Melody wrote:


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)


As a career mage in these games, I'd say it depends on the situation. I've seen fights where the healer was struggling just to heal. Other times the healer was standing there doing nothing. You don't want to cast an Aero if the tank is taking a beating and the brief recast for the casting kills him. I don't see nothing wrong with casting a Dps spell if mp is good and the tank is fine. The priorities must be maintained before e-peen.

I think Virus from ARN abilities is a great debuff that all healers should be using since it will help the tank. The same way Flash by a WHM helped a tank in FFXI.



Edited, Aug 19th 2013 9:32pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#34 Aug 19 2013 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cool, cool. Yeah.. It's been a few years since I played an MMO of any sort, but was pretty solid on WHM and BRD on XI. I know there's more chance to toss in a spell or two, or even three.. but I thought it was ridiculous when someone suggested that CNJ wasn't doing their job if they weren't also DPS. And it obviously depends on the tank.. There were some really squishy ones during P3.. Am excited to see what it's like once we go live. (As said in another thread, we intentionally did not do the dungeons this phase.)
#35 Aug 19 2013 at 8:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Melody wrote:


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)


As a career mage in these games, I'd say it depends on the situation. I've seen fights where the healer was struggling just to heal. Other times the healer was standing there doing nothing. You don't want to cast an Aero if the tank is taking a beating and the brief recast for the casting kills him. I don't see nothing wrong with casting a Dps spell if mp is good and the tank is fine. The priorities must be maintained before e-peen.

I think Virus from ARN abilities is a great debuff that all healers should be using since it will help the tank. The same way Flash by a WHM helped a tank in FFXI.



Edited, Aug 19th 2013 9:32pm by ShadowedgeFFXI


With them doubling the potency of cure, throwing spells out as a CNJ is a lot more manageable now. MY big issue with it though is that in the couple Guildhests and SAS I ran on my CNJ I was pulling threat simply from healing. If I threw out my DPS rotation I would have tanked the entire dungeon.
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#36 Aug 20 2013 at 5:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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On the Cnj dpsing during dungeons ... it all depends on the group. If the tank holds aggro and the DPS focus one mob at a time than I can usually help DPS . If the tank has things running about and the dps don't focus I'm busy keeping them and me alive.

Also the cnj needs to know the fights . Does this boss have adds? Than usually I won't dps to hard in case I need to heal more( don't wanna run out ta mana). If your just standing there doing nadda while the tank and DPS do there jobs than yea your doing something wrong even a simple aero. would be helpful if you have nothing else to do.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 7:26am by silverhope
#37 Aug 20 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Well with the error I didn't get to do any but Tesee got to ifrit. She had to wait around a 1/2 hour on most.
Yea I think there is a shortage of both.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 9:28am by Nashred
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#38 Aug 20 2013 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Melody wrote:


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)


As a career mage in these games, I'd say it depends on the situation. I've seen fights where the healer was struggling just to heal. Other times the healer was standing there doing nothing. You don't want to cast an Aero if the tank is taking a beating and the brief recast for the casting kills him. I don't see nothing wrong with casting a Dps spell if mp is good and the tank is fine. The priorities must be maintained before e-peen.

I think Virus from ARN abilities is a great debuff that all healers should be using since it will help the tank. The same way Flash by a WHM helped a tank in FFXI.



Edited, Aug 19th 2013 9:32pm by ShadowedgeFFXI


I was a career WHM in FFXI.. The only problem is with a fight you might be doing nothing and all of a sudden it get crazy at the end. You start doing damage spells you could run out of mana at the end. The other issue is heals create a lot of hate. You dont want to generate even more hate by throwing damage spells on.. also whm spells do real little damage, a enfeebling spell would be better or dia... My point is allot of fights get tuff right at the end and you want to be prepared.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 9:36am by Nashred
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#39 Aug 20 2013 at 11:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Melody wrote:


I've heard, elsewhere, that if you're CNJ you're not doing your job if you aren't ALSO DPSing. I suspect that people are talking out of their *** when they say this. (Basing my opinion on P3 dungeons) I didn't have time to stop and DPS during dungeons, except for maybe as the next wave started.. So asking you guys, is a CNJ not doing their job if they aren't also DPSing? (Not talking about doing 1 stone, 1 aero every so often to make sure enfeebles are on.)


As a career mage in these games, I'd say it depends on the situation. I've seen fights where the healer was struggling just to heal. Other times the healer was standing there doing nothing. You don't want to cast an Aero if the tank is taking a beating and the brief recast for the casting kills him. I don't see nothing wrong with casting a Dps spell if mp is good and the tank is fine. The priorities must be maintained before e-peen.

I think Virus from ARN abilities is a great debuff that all healers should be using since it will help the tank. The same way Flash by a WHM helped a tank in FFXI.



Edited, Aug 19th 2013 9:32pm by ShadowedgeFFXI


I was a career WHM in FFXI.. The only problem is with a fight you might be doing nothing and all of a sudden it get crazy at the end. You start doing damage spells you could run out of mana at the end. The other issue is heals create a lot of hate. You dont want to generate even more hate by throwing damage spells on.. also whm spells do real little damage, a enfeebling spell would be better or dia... My point is allot of fights get tuff right at the end and you want to be prepared.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 9:36am by Nashred


Career OCD WHM and in agreement with Nash.

Triage. Pure and simple. (the following assumes the peak of the Bell curve, not the extreme end of gear and experience)

With a group that keeps the hate on the person best able to absorb the damage, a Healer will have a wealth of MP, Proper macros keeping you on the Tank's target allow you to sneak an Aero in here and there. If you don't have the macros, and you DOT the slept mob on accident that then chases you around, interrupting your casts while the tank gets hate back... you get the "What the **** were you doing?" talk.

With Bosses and that same party, There is the chance of larger hits, but if there isn't a crowd, sneaking Aero and even the odd Stone in isn't a bad idea. NOT massive, macroed streams of damage... Why? because when you get complacent, cocky, whatever you want to call it. You'll be stuck in a cast while the tank dips into the red. and then you get the " What the **** were you doing?" talk.

There was a cutscene on the climb for CNJWith the Sorrowful healer still carrying around the severed head of the tank...

We're damned if we do our jobs because someone wants more, Damned if we don't because everybody dies. I take losing a member during combat very personally, and I'll take the former over the latter.
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#40 Aug 20 2013 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I ran Sastasha as a THM with 2 LNC and and ACN with Carby tanking the whole way and ACN healing. You have to learn as a DPS in those situations to tone down your attacks a little so you don't get hate. I can't imagine that we would be able to do that post-Ifrit.
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