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Arcanist - Not your typical pet job from FFXIFollow

#1 Aug 19 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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OK, i thought i would make a post on this seeing how a good majority of people are calling for ARN to be nerfed.

For starters I am fully for ARN remaining the way it is. I do not feel that ARN is in anyway overpowered. I do feel however that ARN is being played completely wrong. Here's my two cents;

Most of us, myself included, couldn't wait to get ARN and relive our glory days of pet jobs from FFXI. In those days, SMN's pet was pretty much 'set it & forget it'. You had carby attack a mob and throw BP's out when you could. After some time with ARN this past weekend however, i find that ARN is nothing like this.

ARN is given a separate list of commands to control carby. Now, I bet that most of us just used the SIC command which gave carby free range on what he did. And I'd also be willing to bet that most ARN did the same then when it came to doing any dungeons. This was a huge problem when using the topaz (tank) carby as it would pull mobs off the tank. The problem wasn't with carby, he was doing what he is suppose to, draw alot of hate. But that became a problem when the ARN would allow carby to spam attacks by using the SIC command rather then the OBEY command. ARN requires alot more attention and detail to use properly then most jobs as the ARN is not only managing themself but their pet aswell. I think those of us who played SMN in FFXI need to rethink our play style to better suit ARN.

I think this will also be a similar problem with SMN and SCH if the pet is given a SIC command where they can spam moves.

Ok, there's my thought. What are you thoughts???

Edited, Aug 19th 2013 2:47pm by RyanSquires

Edited, Aug 19th 2013 2:49pm by RyanSquires
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#2 Aug 19 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Or they just need to use Emerald Carby, he's the dps pet with higher potencies. His drawback is no AoE and I think people like the idea of OMG BIG NUMBAS! So they let Topaz hit everything at once.

This falls back to the more basic problem with pugs... Rule #2: Focus fire. It's just under Rule #1: Do not stand in fire. And we all know people still don't obey Rule #1.
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#3 Aug 19 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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Using the Emerald carby does help, but i saw first hand that that can still be a problem. If the mob gets near carby, he will use drawback and throw the mob away, i had this happen just to watch the tank and DPS's go chasing after the mob, this also resulted in linking other mobs we did not want to fight at the time. The core problem still remains, do not use SIC, use OBEY and learn to manage your pet.

Not arguing w/ ya Anakte, just saying people need to manage their pet before they go screaming it needs to be nerf.

Edited, Aug 19th 2013 2:55pm by RyanSquires
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#4 Aug 19 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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When I ran my first dungeon as the Arcanist I refused to be the guy who used only his Topaz Carbuncle after being frustrated by them during my runs while a Marauder and Lancer/Pugilist. Unfortunatly I got a Marauder who refused to tank I normally would have helped the player out on how to tank but I can't speak Japanese. So Topaz tank to the rescue. After leveling Arcanist I assume we are seeing so many Topaz in the early dungeons because they just recieved the spell for it at 15 and might think its an improved version rather than the tank/dps switch.
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#5 Aug 19 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Default
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That's because the Carby mechanics are mostly taken from the BST job in FFXI, not Summoner. As a Lv99 BST, I instantly saw the connection. They ripped off BST, almost to the core. BST charmed pets will use their own abilities when you tell them to attack, but controlled pets(jugs) give the master control.
#6 Aug 19 2013 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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My only real problem with them is that every time I would try to target a mob at a FATE, there would be 1,000 carbys at the FATE and I couldn't target a single mob because they kept getting in the way... and SE didn't think it would make sense to fix targeting before P4...

That and Airship Minions... If I target one more minion while doing a FATE I'm going to freak out!
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#7 Aug 19 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
That's because the Carby mechanics are mostly taken from the BST job in FFXI, not Summoner. As a Lv99 BST, I instantly saw the connection. They ripped off BST, almost to the core. BST charmed pets will use their own abilities when you tell them to attack, but controlled pets(jugs) give the master control.



Ya know something, got my BST to 75 and left 11 before the level cap and it didn't even dawn on me that ARN is pretty much a BST. So do you think ARN needs to be nerfed or do you think people need to learn to control their pets?
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#8 Aug 19 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm going to play devils advocate and say I didn't know about the other pet bar until I switched to K/M. I also think playing pet jobs in other MMOs gives you a good idea of what you are saying. You can set it and forget it but then you miss out on the utility of pets. One other thing I would like to add. Carby pulling mobs off the tank isn't his fault. I used it purposely in a group at the request of our glad. He keep hate off it. I'm not going to say tanks that can't keep hate of a pet are ... ummm I'm just not going to say it!
#9 Aug 19 2013 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:
My only real problem with them is that every time I would try to target a mob at a FATE, there would be 1,000 carbys at the FATE and I couldn't target a single mob because they kept getting in the way... and SE didn't think it would make sense to fix targeting before P4...

That and Airship Minions... If I target one more minion while doing a FATE I'm going to freak out!


Wasn't that like eye popping to see so many people with their pets? I was floored. I had to go to quiet location and chain mobs.

Targeting, even macro targeting hasn't worked for me yet. I know they are still working on this issue, but, but it made Dungeons a bit harder. I thought there was going to be a mob list on the screen, but FIRST you have to target it, then it will remain on.

With all the improvements they made from p3 to p4, I'm confident that they are working on the issue.


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#10 Aug 19 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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Sort of a derailment, but you can change the filters for tab targetting to not pick minions like carbuncle.
#11 Aug 19 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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RyanSquires wrote:


Ya know something, got my BST to 75 and left 11 before the level cap and it didn't even dawn on me that ARN is pretty much a BST. So do you think ARN needs to be nerfed or do you think people need to learn to control their pets?


Based on my experience so far, people need to control their pets better. They need to realize that ARN is a DPS role, not soloing in which they use their pet to keep them alive. I get the feeling some tanks are just disgruntled about the hate threshold and I can see the concern. I feel nerfing it would be a bad choice though. Because let's say SE scales the class properly to end game, an off tank would be a nice thing to have for that purpose. I'd like to see ARN protect the rear line. As of right now, if you're not maximizing damage on ARN, you're just killing slower and ruining the game for everyone in the party.
#12 Aug 19 2013 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure all the servers were filled, but you should have seen the Legacy server... pretty much EVERYONE went ACN. After I hit 20 and switched to MRD I went traveling around a bit, doing FATEs in Gridania and Uldah, and there were some that people just didn't go to. Unlike in LL where every FATE ended in a brief period because of the immense number of people slaughtering whatever.

And oh man The Drowning Wench was a veritable squirrel habitat the whole weekend.
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#13 Aug 19 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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i'm not sure ARC needs to ne nerfed, but people do need to get better at playing the class and learn how to control it properly. Topaz can have a good spot in a party for holding mobs back that the party will deal with later. Just pull a mob off o the side and tank it on the side. A summoner has full control on positioning and his pet should he choose to use it. Everything carby needs is on the pet hotbar.

As for the targeting during the FATE yeah, that needs a fix. I was thinking though if the players alrerady have control over this because in the menu there is an option to change your targeting filters and such, and i believe carby counts as "other". just switch the filter under "all" and uncheck "other". that way when you switch target it will never target carby. At least, this is how i think it can be done, if i'm not mistaken.
#14 Aug 19 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Maarg wrote:
Sort of a derailment, but you can change the filters for tab targetting to not pick minions like carbuncle.

Not true, as carbuncle is not a minion.
I have minions switched off, and still carby gets targeted like any other party member and/or NPC.
#15 Aug 19 2013 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, I was expecting more aggressive responses telling me I am wrong bla bla bla, but these are surprising. I fully agree w/ Key and i think this is exactly what needs to happen rather then ARN being nerfed.
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#16 Aug 19 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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One of my friends pointed out that the ACN DoT access and damage is a bit much.

Bio: 40 Potency
Miasma: 35 Potency
Thunder (from THM): 35 Potency
Aero (from CNJ): 25 Potency

So you have an effective 135 Potency of damage occurring every second that you can keep up on something on top of Ruin when you aren't refreshing DoTs and Carby blasting stuff away. Or you can just start chain pulling by casting DoTs in succession. And I do have to agree that stuff just melts for ACN when I was leveling it.
#17 Aug 19 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
i'm not sure ARC needs to ne nerfed, but people do need to get better at playing the class and learn how to control it properly. Topaz can have a good spot in a party for holding mobs back that the party will deal with later. Just pull a mob off o the side and tank it on the side. A summoner has full control on positioning and his pet should he choose to use it. Everything carby needs is on the pet hotbar.

As for the targeting during the FATE yeah, that needs a fix. I was thinking though if the players alrerady have control over this because in the menu there is an option to change your targeting filters and such, and i believe carby counts as "other". just switch the filter under "all" and uncheck "other". that way when you switch target it will never target carby. At least, this is how i think it can be done, if i'm not mistaken.


If you are on the PS3 and you set your Hot XBar to toggle on and off, while it is toggled on you can use L1 and R1 to move between targets. I did this in all of the FATEs that I got in and never once did my targeting move to a friendly plus it greatly improved my performance in the FATEs which netted me more exp per than I had been getting.

Edited, Aug 19th 2013 3:42pm by princessary
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#18 Aug 19 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Default
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Ravashack wrote:
One of my friends pointed out that the ACN DoT access and damage is a bit much.

Bio: 40 Potency
Miasma: 35 Potency
Thunder (from THM): 35 Potency
Aero (from CNJ): 25 Potency

So you have an effective 135 Potency of damage occurring every second that you can keep up on something on top of Ruin when you aren't refreshing DoTs and Carby blasting stuff away. Or you can just start chain pulling by casting DoTs in succession. And I do have to agree that stuff just melts for ACN when I was leveling it.


Miasma isn't a DoT till level 46. By then the other classes have higher pot spells
#19 Aug 19 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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nonameoflevi wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
One of my friends pointed out that the ACN DoT access and damage is a bit much.

Bio: 40 Potency
Miasma: 35 Potency
Thunder (from THM): 35 Potency
Aero (from CNJ): 25 Potency

So you have an effective 135 Potency of damage occurring every second that you can keep up on something on top of Ruin when you aren't refreshing DoTs and Carby blasting stuff away. Or you can just start chain pulling by casting DoTs in succession. And I do have to agree that stuff just melts for ACN when I was leveling it.


Miasma isn't a DoT till level 46. By then the other classes have higher pot spells


...No, it's DEFINITELY a DoT at level 10. 46 is when you get Miasma II, and NO one has that yet.
#20 Aug 19 2013 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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princessary wrote:
Keysofgaruda wrote:
i'm not sure ARC needs to ne nerfed, but people do need to get better at playing the class and learn how to control it properly. Topaz can have a good spot in a party for holding mobs back that the party will deal with later. Just pull a mob off o the side and tank it on the side. A summoner has full control on positioning and his pet should he choose to use it. Everything carby needs is on the pet hotbar.

As for the targeting during the FATE yeah, that needs a fix. I was thinking though if the players alrerady have control over this because in the menu there is an option to change your targeting filters and such, and i believe carby counts as "other". just switch the filter under "all" and uncheck "other". that way when you switch target it will never target carby. At least, this is how i think it can be done, if i'm not mistaken.


If you are on the PS3 and you set your Hot XBar to toggle on and off, while it is toggled on you can use L1 and R1 to move between targets. I did this in all of the FATEs that I got in and never once did my targeting move to a friendly plus it greatly improved my performance in the FATEs which netted me more exp per than I had been getting.

Edited, Aug 19th 2013 3:42pm by princessary



Did not know this. My xbar was on mixed. I was toggling away with my targeting. Got it to run smooth for me. This should work wonders. Can't wait to try it.
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#21 Aug 19 2013 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ravashack wrote:
One of my friends pointed out that the ACN DoT access and damage is a bit much.

Bio: 40 Potency
Miasma: 35 Potency
Thunder (from THM): 35 Potency
Aero (from CNJ): 25 Potency

So you have an effective 135 Potency of damage occurring every second that you can keep up on something on top of Ruin when you aren't refreshing DoTs and Carby blasting stuff away. Or you can just start chain pulling by casting DoTs in succession. And I do have to agree that stuff just melts for ACN when I was leveling it.



You're mistaking this amount greately.

Primarily, Damage over Time Tics do not occur every second. They occur every 3 seconds as determined by global server timer that checks for Damage over Time. The tics for all Damage over time debuffs all trigger at once.

Enemies melt to Arcanist because they melt to everyone without exception. Parses have been done to compare and Arcanist is well in line with every other class right now, they actually fall behind if they're not using their debuffs or pets properly.

Claims without the research rarely do anyone justice. If anything should be nerfed on Arcanist it could very well be Topaz Carbunkles ease of hate generation, but we will have to see beyond level 20 before making any sort of judgment there.
#22 Aug 19 2013 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I feel that the ACN damage output is more sustainable since it is a dot class which may make it seems stronger than it actually is. I think people will probably feel that ACN will be more balance at later levels because right now the mobs arent that tough. From the beginning arcanists are known for their strategies as assessors, so if you have to play smart as one to really make it shine.When the mobs start to hit harder, arcanists will have to start micromanaging their pets or both the arcanist and pet will die quickly.
#23 Aug 19 2013 at 2:32 PM Rating: Default
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I dunno, it does seem OP to me.

My friend was easily able to solo FATEs which are supposed to be group activities, that were much higher level than him at the time. He loves the class and he's maining it and even he said they should nerf it pretty hard.
#24 Aug 19 2013 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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Fates scale to the number of people. My marauder can solo fates too. As to the fact that ACN can spam all abilities...that will only last until mama becomes an issue at higher levels. Spamming mp or tp abilities on CD is not supposed to be possible beyond the 20s.
#25 Aug 19 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
You're mistaking this amount greately.

Primarily, Damage over Time Tics do not occur every second. They occur every 3 seconds as determined by global server timer that checks for Damage over Time. The tics for all Damage over time debuffs all trigger at once.

Enemies melt to Arcanist because they melt to everyone without exception. Parses have been done to compare and Arcanist is well in line with every other class right now, they actually fall behind if they're not using their debuffs or pets properly.

Claims without the research rarely do anyone justice. If anything should be nerfed on Arcanist it could very well be Topaz Carbunkles ease of hate generation, but we will have to see beyond level 20 before making any sort of judgment there.

But I was in this group and this one dude was totally better than me so the class he was playing HAS TO BE better than mine because SE is dumb! Hooray logic!

Seriously though, where can I get myself one of these parsers anyway, I'd like to do some testing of my own next weekend.
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#26 Aug 19 2013 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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It won't be nerfed. If you guys do some serious testing, you'll notice that ACN isn't really any better in instances than any other class; the damage output is really the same. Just because it has a tank pet that can help kill stronger mobs easily, doesn't mean that it'll have the same effect in pvp either. AI is always dumber than Human players.
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