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*** marriage in ARRFollow

#52 Aug 19 2013 at 11:27 PM Rating: Default
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I personally don't see why there needs to be any marriage in this game, but I guess games are just changing. I remember marriage being available in FFXI and it was still laughable. I understand it is part of the RP aspect of these games, but wouldn't anyone be able to roleplay being married regardless of their gender without having an official marriage option being in the game? Kind of pointless in my eyes, but to each their own. I do agree that some younger players would be susceptible to seeing a touchy subject as this in a game as being somewhat disappointing though. Keep real life situations out of games and just enjoy the game for what it is. I do think regardless of the official decision it will indeed be a lose-lost situation for the majority of players anyway.
#53 Aug 20 2013 at 12:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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"Now to religious people who don't believe in science, I fully understand the distaste towards gays. Religion can be a powerful thing and generally make people into jerks (ex. crusades, witch burning, terrorism, protesting at funerals of those who died in war). If someone brainwashes you into believing that you have to hurt others to get into heaven, it's not necessarily your fault. Our brains are designed to be gullible and fall for it (again for various social/evolutionary reasons). And one could even argue that the reasons as to why we experience religion (from a scientific perspective) are what make us uniquely intelligent and able to use tools and pass on knowledge."


I am blown away with this part of your comment, really so all religious our brainwashed sheep? They don't believe in science? The looks of it (if you are American) you don't like our freedom of speech ether, it is their right to protest and speak their mind, weather they protest a funeral, church or a chick-fil-a it is their right period. This part of your comment just screams "your rights end where my feelings begin." Please provide scientific sources that back up your claims, otherwise stop projecting.


No no sorry, i think you misunderstood based on punctuation.
"Now to religious people who don't believe in science" is referring specifically to only religious people who don't believe in science.

If i would have stuck a comma in there it would be different. for example "now to religious people, who don't believe in science" would suggest all religious people did not believe in science

As to free speech, I am not American, sorry. I am Canadian. And while we have free speech here we also have something illegal called hate speech. And if you make derogatory comments about *** people (regardless of them being your opinion) that is considered hate speech. If made publically it's considered hate propaganda.

However as to religion, there is an entire field called neurotheology that covers how the brain forms religious thought (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotheology)
The wikipedia talks about some of the main studies. If you are more specific on what you want to know I can try to find some journal articles on it.

One neuroscientist who suffered a stroke experienced what is like a religious out-of-body experience and described it here: http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

Then there is the god helmet which induces religious experiences: http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/brain-religion2.htm
And that article talks about some diff studies and the evolutionary benefits of religion

And then there are many different drugs that can do the same.

You asked me to provide scientific sources on my claims.
The links in my original post describe the scientific studies in plain english. I also mentioned one of the studies. What evidence would you like that isn't available in that post?

If it's gays being born *** here is one journal article i found free online: http://hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1993-homosexual-orientation-in-twins.html
there are many others that have the same conclusions though (that twins have higher rates of homosexuality than normal brothers and sisters suggesting it's partly dna). However, epigenetics, and many other factors, seem to come into effect. Let me know if you want to know more. or read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation
The science community is pretty well 100% sure being *** isn't a choice. The controversy is about -what- leads to homosexuality.
But the fact that most animals show homosexuality and some animals like dolphins are almost all bisexual, tends to suggest it's natural.

#54 Aug 20 2013 at 12:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Some religious people are scientists.

But pretty much no serious learned scientists are religious (very low percentage).

It all depends how and where you were bought up. Pretty much all biologists/geneticists etc believe that homosexuality is genetic so I'm going with them rather than religious people.
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#55 Aug 20 2013 at 1:01 AM Rating: Good
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Just have the same thing they did in XI...

Let people buy the rings, re-craft them to ingrave their own name, and exchange them. No massive ceremony needed, no GM support needed, just go find a quiet part of the woods with some friends and done.

I'll have you know i cant be bothered by it or even remotely upset by the subject. We've had *** marriages in my country (The Netherlands) for years. People stopped making a deal about it, about around the time people stopped bringing it up every 5 minutes like it was some big issue. So really, it's just the people that promote this that **** me off, for the pure and simply reason that they're portraiting this as something horrible and/or shocking when i'm sure no one really cares about it in the first place.

Let them do whatever they like. As long as they dont actively bother me about it ingame, i'm good. It's like my stance on religion, if you make sure not to knock on my door at 7 AM and wake me just to tell me about god, i really couldnt care less about what you believe in.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 9:03am by KojiroSoma
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#56 Aug 20 2013 at 1:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ehllfire wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
I've made a couple posts about this before but I was wondering if you guys would post your thoughts.

Yoshida said that the marriage option would only be added for a straight couple, but a GM recently posted that they're open to feedback on the subject.

What do you think? Should two male or two female characters be allowed to marry on ARR? Before the beta ended there was a huge discussion going on in /shout on the subject, but I didn't get involved.

Absolutely not. This is a game children will be playing and Im sure many parents would not want their kids getting mixed signals about what is right and wrong. Plus many countries this game is going to be in (like Indonesia the worlds largest muslim country) would likely ban or put a mature rating (the us would slap a mature raing) on the game dooming its sales in those places, hurting SE. Also in Japan *** marriage and homosexuality are a no-no, so culturely speaking it would not fly there. The only ones asking for it are a small overly vocal minority from the US and EU. A large segment of the population of the world including me view it as aberrant behavior and shouldnt be encouraged. Id seriously doubt it will ever come to mmos.

That huge shouting match in beta was pre-planned by by activist LGBT groups who are screaming and kicking trying to ruin SE's vision of the game.


The game will be rated (T) for teen so small kids should not play it anyway.

As for "mixed" signals I just lol. Parents should teach their children to be open minded not bound on stereotypes.

With that been said there is a lot of noise for nothing. It's a game why would I want to get married...AGAIN. One wife (or gf) is enough for me not to mention that if my gf plays the game it will raise high expectations for real life! >_<

Seriously though I don't mind either way. I think marriage in games is "stupid" to begin with and trying to put hetero *** marriage only is even more stupid since there are a lot of men that play as a female char (as a friend once told me..when I play I don't want to keep seeing a males a@@ all the time but a females one, can't argue with that!). So in conclusion might as well allow all kinds of marriage I mean who cares and who would know?

Catwho wrote:
Heh. In Japan it's officially a no-no, but unofficially.... Japan single handedly made *** **** attractive to women.


Yea I mean seriously there are SO many "***" mangas out there that I was amazed and for some reason women love seeing 2 men in a manga be all lovi-dovi. Smiley: lol
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#57 Aug 20 2013 at 2:39 AM Rating: Good
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Ya know I honestly don't get whats the big deal with same *** marriages. If two people care about each enough to the point they want to make that step and take everything that comes with that choice, the highs and lows, then good for them. Its when you get asses that are radically against people being allowed that choice is when I start to get irked. What **** business of it is theirs? It's ignorance like this that makes me sad of the current state of humanity.

Edit*

And Ehllfire, it's people like you that make me wish at times that you need to register before you can breed. You're worried about your kids getting mixed signals, I worry for the state of their intelligence if a game has so much pull on their being. If they have questions, for christs sake man answer them, and at least try to do it rationally.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 4:43am by OniElvaan
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#58Skaditoo, Posted: Aug 20 2013 at 5:21 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Life isn't fair, grow up and get over it. That's what everyone needs to do.
#59 Aug 20 2013 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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The reason some men who watch girl/girl **** are against women marrying each other is that part of the ******* fantasy is that the two girls fall in love with him.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 7:59am by Catwho
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#60 Aug 20 2013 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
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Probably what SE fears:
a *** marriage in FFXIV goes viral
Conservative/extreme right wing bloggers have field day
Fox News: online game let's your children *** marry each other
Colbert: Gays discover cheat code to abduct our children
America can't sleep at night for fear of gays pouring forth from its 56k modems
#61 Aug 20 2013 at 6:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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That sounds fabulous.
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#62 Aug 20 2013 at 6:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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I really don't care one way or the other about this being in game or not and the more people press the issue the more likely SE is to completely drop whatever plans they have for marriage in game just to shut everyone up. Would I like for me and my partner to get married in game? Yes, but I'm not going to demand that *** marriage be implemented just for that purpose. If either she or I wish to get married in game then one of us will make a male character and let that be that. Otherwise, we still make stories up about our characters and thier relationships, marriage not being a factor, because that is one of the things that we do. Also, if marriage is something that they want to implement but don't want to inclued gays due to cultural and/or marketing reasons, I don't want them to feel the need to remove a planned feature just to silence a vocal minority. Either way it goes though, it won't pervent me from playing and having a great time.
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#63 Aug 20 2013 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm a Christian, think science works ******** and I'm all for *** marriage. Did I just divide by zero?
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#64 Aug 20 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I don’t look at homosexuals in a bad light. I don’t agree with that lifestyle but I don’t hate or try to disassociate myself from them. In fact, my cousin and aunt are *** and I love them to death. But marriage is between a man and a woman period. Regardless of political correctness or even overwhelming majority. Fact, even if the whole world together in unison believed same *** marriage was right, it would still be wrong. Marriage was defined by God period. Yes, people get divorced and married every day. Yes, people may even marry multiple times. Marriage is trampled upon daily in different ways all the time. But that doesn’t make marriage look bad, it makes us as a society look bad. The fact that we take the sanctity of marriage and just do what we please with it. Just because we don’t do right with marriage doesn’t make it any less holy. It just shows how corrupt we are that we don’t know how to act with something that was meant to be a good thing. Again, I have no malice towards homosexuals and I don’t go out of my way to be mean or evil to them and anyone that does should be ashamed of themselves. They have a right to love and be loved. But I cannot and will not agree that same-*** marriage is ok.

OT: Marriage shouldn’t even be in the game. But if it is, it should be portrayed in its original light and meaning not the corrupt fashion we have molded it to be today.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 10:09am by AlexandEric
#65 Aug 20 2013 at 8:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Westyle wrote:
Probably what SE fears:
a *** marriage in FFXIV goes viral
Conservative/extreme right wing bloggers have field day
Fox News: online game let's your children *** marry each other
Colbert: Gays discover cheat code to abduct our children
America can't sleep at night for fear of gays pouring forth from its 56k modems


That just made me LOL in RL! THe gays are gonna get ya and paint your rooms rainbow! Should they put Same Gender Loving People Marriage in the game and new medias have a field day with it, they will come under fire too. Seems its a win win for getting the game out there. People will pick it up just to have *** wedding posted on Youtube.
#66 Aug 20 2013 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
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You could use that argument if marriage was something that only existed in the Christian Church, but in the United States it is not. It is a legal binding that says two people are a couple and is used in taxes and insurance. You can get married with zero religious involvement.
#67 Aug 20 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
I'm a Christian, think science works ******** and I'm all for *** marriage. Did I just divide by zero?


Nope, because you still use your brain. The majority of [insert religion here] never seem to get the pure essence of their religion -- the actual faith part of it -- and become consumed by what they should and shouldn't do and should and shouldn't believed told to them by others. "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." is a fairly apt observation, but ultimately applies to any religion and not just Christianity.

I don't believe in any type of deity period but I'm all for people that have actual faith in their patron deity. The problem becomes when people throw away their logic, common sense, and intelligence because it's what others tell them they should do.

AlexandEric wrote:
I don’t look at homosexuals in a bad light. I don’t agree with that lifestyle but I don’t hate or try to disassociate myself from them. In fact, my cousin and aunt are *** and I love them to death. But marriage is between a man and a woman period. Regardless of political correctness or even overwhelming majority. Fact, even if the whole word together in unison believed same *** marriage was right, it would still be wrong. Marriage was defined by God period.


You're so wrong it isn't even funny.

Marriages have existed and been documented well in the pre-BC era by the Sumerians in southern Mesopotamia nearly 2,500 years BC (we're talking almost five thousand years ago). Over the next few hundred years is spread into the Greeks, Hewbrews, and Romans. This is well before Christianity was even a thought and religion didn't even have anything to do with marriage.

It wasn't until the Roman Catholic Church emerged (1st century AD) where they began to force the idea that people needed to be blessed by the church in order for it to become valid. That took almost eight centuries to force and coerce the western world into the belief that a priest was needed in order to be valid. And it wasn't even until the Council of Trent (sometime in the 1500s AD I think, not sure) before it even became a part of canon with faith and that was almost four thousand years after the first marriage.

No, marriage doesn't have anything to do with religion of any type.

Period.
#68 Aug 20 2013 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Even though people are discussing this fairly well without much drama, it can turn south in a hurry. A topic like this (as it relates to video games in general and not just FFXIV) is more suited for the OOT or Asylum. I'm going to lock it now while things are on a good note and we'll carry on.
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