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Anyone know of DPS Parsers?Follow

#1 Aug 20 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I've been looking for a DPS Meter or parser program if anyone has an idea of where one is. I just want to know if what I'm doing is useful or useless in a group lol.
#2 Aug 20 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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At the top of this page click the XIV App link, it might just blow your mind.
#3 Aug 20 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Do you really need a dps meter for this game?
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#4 Aug 20 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh I guess it was on your main page lol. I never visited the main, just been sticking to the forums. Thanks for the info :)
#5 Aug 20 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Ehllfire wrote:
Do you really need a dps meter for this game?


Metrics are intrinsic to improving.
#6 Aug 20 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Lamneth wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
Do you really need a dps meter for this game?


Metrics are intrinsic to improving.

If by improving means being **** about .23dps difference
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#7 Aug 20 2013 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Or just knowing when is it more valuable to aoe vs single target, or how many mobs till multidotting should be a thing vs single target. Order of spells cast, differences with different sets of gear... Its a long list of knowing for certain vs just speculating with 0 information to go on other than, "It feels like everything is dieing faster..."
#8 Aug 20 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Ehllfire wrote:

If by improving means being **** about .23dps difference


Without any metrics how can you know you could only improve by .23 dps :p
#9 Aug 20 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Lamneth wrote:
At the top of this page click the XIV App link, it might just blow your mind.


I get a 404 when I hit download
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#10 Aug 20 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Default
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Can someone explain to me how the parser looks at DOT (damage over time) spells?
In the chat log, from what I can tell, the damage numbers are not displayed in there and it only says that the target is under the ailment.
#11 Aug 20 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dilbert wrote:
Lamneth wrote:
At the top of this page click the XIV App link, it might just blow your mind.


I get a 404 when I hit download


That means you're parsing above everyone else... I only got a 401 Smiley: lol
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#12 Aug 20 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.

I just think that having something like this enables the bad side of people. It won't be about playing the game and just having fun anymore. It'll be about that baddie SMN pulling 2k DPS less than the egotistical, elitist DRG. I see it in WoW every single day. People hating on one another, and using DPS meters to fuel their hatred while hiding behind the shroud of anonymity.

Frustration and anonymity make people say terrible things to one another. DPS meters, while useful, have become tools to help bad people be bad.
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#13 Aug 20 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Teracide wrote:
I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.

I just think that having something like this enables the bad side of people. It won't be about playing the game and just having fun anymore. It'll be about that baddie SMN pulling 2k DPS less than the egotistical, elitist DRG. I see it in WoW every single day. People hating on one another, and using DPS meters to fuel their hatred while hiding behind the shroud of anonymity.

Frustration and anonymity make people say terrible things to one another. DPS meters, while useful, have become tools to help bad people be bad.


Those DPS complaints are no different then the "bad player" in group complaints. You will NEVER escape them. The only way it would stop is if everyone knew how to play video games well. They don't so every game gets the same complaints.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 2:49pm by Mopdaddy
#14 Aug 20 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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I think an in-game damage meter is a terrible idea, but I'm ok with a parser outside of the game. The difference being most people won't bother with or constantly be staring at it if it's not on their screen at all times. The percentage of people will be much higher who will use it to be helpful and make guides pointing out what stats benefit what spells more, etc.

When it's on the screen it's just an excuse for people to be bad, like you said. "I don't care if I pull aggro by going all out and not watching threat, I won the meter!"
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#15 Aug 20 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Teracide wrote:
I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.

I just think that having something like this enables the bad side of people. It won't be about playing the game and just having fun anymore. It'll be about that baddie SMN pulling 2k DPS less than the egotistical, elitist DRG. I see it in WoW every single day. People hating on one another, and using DPS meters to fuel their hatred while hiding behind the shroud of anonymity.

Frustration and anonymity make people say terrible things to one another. DPS meters, while useful, have become tools to help bad people be bad.



I agree it also leads to click box healing addons, mods that tell you how to fight bosses, and auction house scanners, all of which can make the game more enjoyable but also take away any effort on the part of the players and in my opinion it changes the style of the game to one that requires little effort on the players. I hope these apps do not make it in game.
#16 Aug 20 2013 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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The thing you have to remember though is, jerks are gonna be jerks givin the tools or not. I and other people like to use this tool to self improve and it gives insight on why something isn't dieing fast enough, or if some one is just forgetting to use a cooldown, than reminding them to use it.

Use it for the power of good not evil!
#17 Aug 20 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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elevens wrote:
I agree it also leads to click box healing addons, mods that tell you how to fight bosses, and auction house scanners, all of which can make the game more enjoyable but also take away any effort on the part of the players and in my opinion it changes the style of the game to one that requires little effort on the players. I hope these apps do not make it in game.


Brace yourself because FFXIV is going to have UI addons. That's been confirmed for months now.

Quote:
I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.


XI had a parser app that ran alongside the game that did exactly the same thing.

Quote:
Can someone explain to me how the parser looks at DOT (damage over time) spells?


If it's not in the chat log, then the app author would have to know how the DoT's damage is calculated and then do that calculation in the app itself to get it in as part of the dps.
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#18 Aug 20 2013 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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Mopdaddy wrote:
Teracide wrote:
I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.

I just think that having something like this enables the bad side of people. It won't be about playing the game and just having fun anymore. It'll be about that baddie SMN pulling 2k DPS less than the egotistical, elitist DRG. I see it in WoW every single day. People hating on one another, and using DPS meters to fuel their hatred while hiding behind the shroud of anonymity.

Frustration and anonymity make people say terrible things to one another. DPS meters, while useful, have become tools to help bad people be bad.


Those DPS complaints are no different then the "bad player" in group complaints. You will NEVER escape them. The only way it would stop is if everyone knew how to play video games well. They don't so every game gets the same complaints.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 2:49pm by Mopdaddy


Bad groups are gonna happen with or without a DPS meter. DPS meters make it worse, though. It gives aggressive players an actual number to throw in others faces.

How are you gonna know that SMN is bad without a DPS meter? He's standing back there firing off his abilities just like anyone else. For all you know he's smoking you in DPS. That factor keeps a lot of peoples mouths shut. I suppose it's more of an "ignorance is bliss" factor. The aggressive player doesn't get the opportunity to voice his aggression, due to being oblivious of the actual output of himself, and others. And everyone else doesn't have to deal with the egotistical aggressive player. It's a win-win for everyone.

With a DPS meter in the game, other players just become numbers. They're no longer players. That concerns me. I suppose you can't really put the blame on a DPS meter, it's definitely the fault of the MMO community. I just don't want this game to become as sociopathic as WoW is.



Edited, Aug 20th 2013 3:04pm by Teracide
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#19 Aug 20 2013 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
I have to agree with Teracide. I've had too many discussions in XI with folks over the years whining and complaining because I'm not doing something to the letter per their parsing now did I ever really WANT to ffxiclopedia stuff at first. It's like EVE Online. Everybody and their brother is an EFT-warrior trying to peel the very last bit of DPS out of a ship fitting because they're 'hard core'. Some people don't play to be hard core. I, for one, want to enjoy myself. Angry people will be angry people, and metering only adds ammo to their already full portfolio of sh*t to b*tch about.

Parsing is THE way to accurately and definitively measure statistical performance, yes. It's a great tool to help the individual improve themselves. It's not a tool to be used to slam others. Doing so takes something away from the game, and I hate to say it, but the group I largely see and hear doing it are those not yet out of school. They have the time and desire to make their mark by being the best, while some of us who work and have families use games for what they're meant for -- entertainment. Nothing else.

Will I parse? Yeah. For myself.
Will I run into other people slamming me for not being 'optimal'? Yeah. Don't care.
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#20 Aug 20 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, it's important to put the blame for negative community behavior where it belongs.... the community.

All the parser is doing is math.

I can tell you as someone who's done hardcore PvE progression in the past (as a role officer) that parses are immensely useful for fixing problems that prevent you from killing bosses.

For instance, I was the healing officer for my last WoW guild. I would analyze my healing team's world of logs parses after a raid night to see where the problems popped up. I used the parse data to fix some spell priority for people on certain fights where they weren't making the best use of their toolsets and it was causing them to be less effective (and caused tanks and others to die as a result).

It's not about bashing people over the head with meters when used properly. It's about using the data to improve and fix problems.

Also, on Friday, there was discussion in LS chat about someone who was joining dungeons and auto-attacking the whole time.. nothing else. An in-game meter lets you point that out, which does a couple of things:
- Lets them know you noticed, and maybe they'll shape up and contribute instead of disrespecting the other three people in their party who are all doing their jobs
- Lets everyone else know who may not have noticed that was happening. This lets you make a decision, as a party, about what to do about that.

In the end the tool itself gets a lot of blame for negative behavior; look at the people behaving that way, they're the ones who are causing the problem.
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#21 Aug 20 2013 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Woot, woot! Logical post is logical!

I agree with Callinon 100%. In fact, I think it is a symptom of an overall problem with people in general these days. Aside from an utter lack of humility, there is a total lack of accountability for ones own actions. Very few people are willing to take stock in themselves and think for even a second that there might just be room for improvement. There are too many things for people to point their finger at instead of the real root cause; poor human behavior.
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#22 Aug 20 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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elevens wrote:
I agree it also leads to click box healing addons, mods that tell you how to fight bosses, and auction house scanners, all of which can make the game more enjoyable but also take away any effort on the part of the players and in my opinion it changes the style of the game to one that requires little effort on the players. I hope these apps do not make it in game.



I'm going to play devils advocate here for a minute. (except for auction house scanners and economy addons, a single player should not be able to control a servers economy with 30min of work each day may they burn in ****)

Do addons that tell you how to fight bosses, allow you to heal by clicking and spell hint addons make the game easier? Or do they allow developers to create more engaging bosses?

In my personal experience, which spans most most MMORPGs that have seen wide release in NA, ones that allow these sorts of addons have more engaging and difficult endgame content. Let me take a step back and define what I mean by that. I consider engaging combat to be an 'ability' rotation you use to optimize either healing/dps/damage reduction, which changes based on circumstances and has decisions a player needs to make to play optimally. You don't need lots of abilities for this to be true, but you shouldn't be able to go into any situation and hit the same buttons in the same order and be playing optimally. I consider this engaging because it allows for you to feel accomplished when you managed to maintain close to optimal performance while engaging in the next key point, difficult endgame content. There are lots of ways to measure difficulty and I'm not sure it is something that can actually be done, but I know what I personally have enjoyed in the past. A good 'boss fight' is one that you aren't guaranteed to win just by showing up with the right group assortment and requires all of the members to rely on each other to perform optimally in a situation that constantly strives to prevent them from doing this through boss mechanics.

I don't actually think it is addons that make any of these things possible. There is no reason a developer can't create a good healing interface or good boss cues. However, what addons do allow for, is for the community to extend the interface of the game in ways the original developers didn't even think of, and while that can result is what many people consider an ugly interface, at least that interface is what that individual player prefers.

Should XIV allow addons?
Unless they can find some way to allow PS3 users to use them as well, they need to avoid allowing them as it would make PS3 players second rate citizens of the game. However, if they do go down the path of not allowing addons, they need to be very receptive to player criticism and ideas for extending the interface to allow the game to grow and mature.
#23 Aug 20 2013 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Yeah, it's important to put the blame for negative community behavior where it belongs.... the community.

All the parser is doing is math.

I can tell you as someone who's done hardcore PvE progression in the past (as a role officer) that parses are immensely useful for fixing problems that prevent you from killing bosses.

For instance, I was the healing officer for my last WoW guild. I would analyze my healing team's world of logs parses after a raid night to see where the problems popped up. I used the parse data to fix some spell priority for people on certain fights where they weren't making the best use of their toolsets and it was causing them to be less effective (and caused tanks and others to die as a result).

It's not about bashing people over the head with meters when used properly. It's about using the data to improve and fix problems.

Also, on Friday, there was discussion in LS chat about someone who was joining dungeons and auto-attacking the whole time.. nothing else. An in-game meter lets you point that out, which does a couple of things:
- Lets them know you noticed, and maybe they'll shape up and contribute instead of disrespecting the other three people in their party who are all doing their jobs
- Lets everyone else know who may not have noticed that was happening. This lets you make a decision, as a party, about what to do about that.

In the end the tool itself gets a lot of blame for negative behavior; look at the people behaving that way, they're the ones who are causing the problem.


I'm actually the Melee Officer of my current WoW guild. I'm definitely no stranger to the usefulness of parsers and meters in a progression setting. I've actually dismissed quite a few players due to bad output. I'm coming at this subject from an empathetic point of view, not a concerned one. We use World of Logs and Recount to dismiss not-so-good players all of the time.

I'm not really trying to blame the tools, more-so blaming the immature user. How many times have you hopped into an LFR and watched the chat? One or two wipes and you'll see people verbally crucifying one another, usually over DPS or HPS. The hatred you see bouncing around in WoW is almost sickening. That's what I DO NOT want to see in FFXIV. It's one of the reasons I'm quitting WoW this week.
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#24 Aug 20 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Teracide wrote:
The hatred you see bouncing around in WoW is almost sickening. That's what I DO NOT want to see in FFXIV. It's one of the reasons I'm quitting WoW this week.



I worry more that the lack of numbers in game will lead to a situation like old days XI where many DD classes were passed over because they did not do good DPS. In a game with parsers in place you have accountability enforced from the community ensuring that classes are balanced to some degree.
#25 Aug 20 2013 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe I'm just over-victimizing the players that would be negatively effected by having a DPS meter in the game.

Or maybe I just don't want this game to become and sociopathic wasteland like WoW is.
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#26 Aug 20 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Teracide wrote:

Or maybe I just don't want this game to become and sociopathic wasteland like WoW is.


With great power comes great responsibility. One can dream that someday players will have information and manners.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 3:00pm by Lamneth
#27 Aug 20 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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BTW, also getting the 404 error when trying to d/l your website's APP.
#28 Aug 20 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Gaming is serious business. No thanks man. I log in to play a game, not to do what I basically do at my job. I am not going to pour over dmg parses nor am I going to critique anyone else's gameplay based on the numbers game. If that makes me a bad gamer than so be it, at least I am going to have fun at it. Seriously, some people just get way too involved... like baseball, it is a beautiful and fun game until the statistics junkies start in on it.

And people wonder why I like to fish...
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#29 Aug 20 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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redrykio wrote:
BTW, also getting the 404 error when trying to d/l your website's APP.


The downloads are hosted on google docs, the error appears to be on their end right now, but I'll shoot a message to Icehunter (the guy who runs it).
#30 Aug 20 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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You people and your unjustified hate for DPS meters is funny.
#31 Aug 20 2013 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Lamneth of the Seven Seas wrote:
redrykio wrote:
BTW, also getting the 404 error when trying to d/l your website's APP.


The downloads are hosted on google docs, the error appears to be on their end right now, but I'll shoot a message to Icehunter (the guy who runs it).


Thanks :)

Mopdaddy wrote:
You people and your unjustified hate for DPS meters is funny.


Also this lol
#32 Aug 20 2013 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Teracide wrote:
With a DPS meter in the game, other players just become numbers. They're no longer players. That concerns me. I suppose you can't really put the blame on a DPS meter, it's definitely the fault of the MMO community. I just don't want this game to become as sociopathic as WoW is.


This is unavoidable with or without a DPS meter. People sometimes just see what gear you're wearing and judge you on that. I'd rather have a parser so I can be my own judge, and just wipe myself with an elitist mage telling me I suck at my melee job because I'm 5% below the damage he read I should output on a forum if I have every single piece of gear I could ever hope to get while I'm in party hoping to get it (extreme exaggeration to some, just the other day to others).
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#33 Aug 20 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Teracide wrote:
Maybe I'm just over-victimizing the players that would be negatively effected by having a DPS meter in the game.

Or maybe I just don't want this game to become and sociopathic wasteland like WoW is.


I don't believe that the one leads inexorably to the other.

I do understand what you're saying about the guy taking LFR entirely too seriously. But even without Recount, that'd be the guy madly spinning his camera around watching for anyone standing in the wrong spot or anyone who stops their rotation for a second to scratch their nose. My point is, he'd find a way even without the tool.. and the tool can be used for good in spite of him.

I do remember in FFXI (even though it had an out-of-game parser available) a time when MNK was considered awful, entirely because it didn't put out huge **** numbers like BLM did. People couldn't tell that the MNK was doing good damage, because it was coming in smaller chunks than the BLM.

Parsers also help keep the devs honest. When you can point to hard data to explain a problem with class balance, it's much more likely to be listened to.

Refews wrote:
Gaming is serious business. No thanks man. I log in to play a game, not to do what I basically do at my job. I am not going to pour over dmg parses nor am I going to critique anyone else's gameplay based on the numbers game. If that makes me a bad gamer than so be it, at least I am going to have fun at it. Seriously, some people just get way too involved... like baseball, it is a beautiful and fun game until the statistics junkies start in on it.


And that's fine. Play the game the way you want to play it, nobody can tell you you're wrong (legitimately). But understand that if you're trying to do more serious progression, that your performance DOES matter. If you don't want to deal with that, just don't enter that environment.

It's going to boil down to playing with people who share your viewpoint on the subject. Surrounding yourself with hardcore players and complaining that everyone is hardcore is just silly.
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#34 Sep 10 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
[quote=elevens]If it's not in the chat log, then the app author would have to know how the DoT's damage is calculated and then do that calculation in the app itself to get it in as part of the dps.


The problem is the dots can and will crit. The author can't put that in the equation.
#35 Sep 10 2013 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the necro bump, I was thinking about this earlier... I wish that we had a PS3 parser... I would love to see how I am doing, this is my first time as a DPS in any MMO.

Anyone on PC want to run a dungeon with me to give me the feedback?
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#36 Sep 10 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The problem is the dots can and will crit


I'd like to do some testing on that actually. I'm not convinced they do.

The dot/hot mechanics in XIV are ... strange ... so making assumptions about them is probably not advisable at the moment.

Quote:
Thanks for the necro bump, I was thinking about this earlier... I wish that we had a PS3 parser... I would love to see how I am doing, this is my first time as a DPS in any MMO.

Anyone on PC want to run a dungeon with me to give me the feedback?


If not, I'm sure someone would stand next to you while you beat up a training dummy and run a parser for you.

The XIVapp parser unfortunately isn't very friendly. I'm hoping the addon API opens that up for something a little better.
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#37 Sep 10 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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Teracide wrote:
I'm not quite sure what I think about having a DPS meter in the game. XI never had one, nor did it need one.

I just think that having something like this enables the bad side of people. It won't be about playing the game and just having fun anymore. It'll be about that baddie SMN pulling 2k DPS less than the egotistical, elitist DRG. I see it in WoW every single day. People hating on one another, and using DPS meters to fuel their hatred while hiding behind the shroud of anonymity.

Frustration and anonymity make people say terrible things to one another. DPS meters, while useful, have become tools to help bad people be bad.


I don't see how it being in the game or not affects the outcome. FFXI had one outside and boy you are wrong if you think it didn't need it.

The mass amount of theorycrafting that occurred after the amalgamation of data collected from parses really pushed FFXI into a new...era, you could say. You went from kiting Kirin for 2 hours to knowing just how much ACC you needed to beat the poo out of him with a bunch of melee in ~2 minutes.

I like being able to know if the DPS are going to be able to handle DPS check fights in advance. I would also like to know that, if I'm in a FATE group, that DPS #7 is AFKing through most of it and therefore not contributing anything to the group.

WoW also doesn't have an 'in-game' parse so to speak. They are more friendly with third party software and addons, though, so it's easy to incorporate one into your UI.

BTW: If you think this 'hatred' is exclusive to WoW and hasn't already infected this community, I have some really unfortunate news for you. :\ Garuda HM fight. This guy was tanking for the first time. Did a great job on the first attempt but look how things turned out:

http://i.imgur.com/umRV3aQ.jpg

Not the first Garuda I've seen turn out that way. No DPS parses needed. lol

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 9:02pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#38 Sep 10 2013 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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Blame it on neither the player nor the tool. Put it where it belongs. With E-sports. :P

EDIT: And wow, I MUST be getting old when a 20 day old post is considered a 'necro'. (insert laughing face here, been here over 3 years and still don't know how :( )

Edited, Sep 10th 2013 11:33pm by DragonBourne
#39 Sep 11 2013 at 3:33 AM Rating: Good
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Lamneth wrote:

Should XIV allow addons?
Unless they can find some way to allow PS3 users to use them as well, they need to avoid allowing them as it would make PS3 players second rate citizens of the game. However, if they do go down the path of not allowing addons, they need to be very receptive to player criticism and ideas for extending the interface to allow the game to grow and mature.


FFXI's ToS never allowed third party software to run along the game I believe. Still you had plenty of people who would use third party software with it like FFAssist or Windower which had plentiful of plugins that changed the gameplay. Xbox and PS2 users never got to use any of those.
#40 Sep 21 2013 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
Ive Downloaded it ran as admin and even ran compatability tests on the app but when i click on it it will only show the hour glass as if it were loading but absolutly nothing happends. Id like to know if anyone has any ideas as to why this is happeneing because Im a Dragoon just looking to maximize my DPS :(
#41 Oct 02 2013 at 11:38 PM Rating: Default
2 posts
its not only to see how much dps you are dealing and whether there is an increase or not you can also use it for gauging hate knowing how much you can push dps before you steal aggro from the tank knowing what spells will stack with other class/job spells and finding out whether its worth using the spell and wasting mana or if a different spell would be better or if it would be better to use the mana on a utility spell instead it helps you learn how to play your class better so that when you raid leader says for you to do certain things you know how to make it happen it can also help with Crowd controllers in watching the average drop time for the CC spell or if its lasting as long as it should i.e. when to recast without wasting mana and possibly getting the group/raid wiped
#42 Oct 04 2013 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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2,550 posts
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:


http://i.imgur.com/lSfmSqS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eqvarqL.jpg

Not the first Garuda I've seen turn out that way. No DPS parses needed. lol

Edited, Sep 10th 2013 1:56pm by HitomeOfBismarck


Links are not working. Btw, I dont care how strong the tank is, if those adds arent turned away from the mages (at least the red line one) there will be problems.

I like being parsed actually, unless its from an arrogant summoner who thinks my 1700+ crits are not equivalent to his broken parses on his DOTs.
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