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Why do some of us get punished for buying the game 3 yrs agoFollow

#52 Aug 21 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
BartelX wrote:
You already got stuff that new players can't get, and again, you are getting this game for free. That is pretty awesome in my opinion.

People really need to stop saying that. It's one thing to try and explain to people why they're not getting more, but the game is not free. They already paid for it. I also don't see the point in bringing up that the game was F2P during 1.0 to try and make it look better than it is. A large majority of the people who bought 1.0 and even Square Enix themselves didn't feel the game was worth it. What's the point of that?

That said, early access is just a bad idea anyway because of the way it's set up. A 3 day advantage might not seem like much, but it's an advantage. I do feel that if SE was going to have pay-to-win access, they should have given it to the 1.0 CE owners. The 1.0 CE was pretty meh compared to the ARR CE and 1.0 CE owners only get the 14 day trial period. Show some love SE.

It's my honest opinion that it would just be the right thing to do. It doesn't make any sense to me that you would exclude anyone the opportunity to play with friends without having to pay for it... twice.


Well, considering 1.0 is almost an entirely new game, yes, you are getting a new game for free. If it was basically the same thing as 1.0 but with a new coat of paint, I'd agree with you. It's not. The point of bringing up that 1.0 was free is that it was free for over a year while they were feverishly trying to fix the game. They could have just as easily said "sorry folks, game sucks, we're cancelling it." but they didn't. They started putting out letters from the producer every couple weeks, asking for feedback, listening to the players and responding in a timely manner, all while still allowing people to play for free as they fixed it.

And no, the 1.0 owners didn't "only get the 14 day trial period". They also got ALL of the ARR CE in-game items, which is amazing. Behemoth barding and a couerl mount alone make that one of the coolest "thank you's" I could ever get from SE. They didn't have to do that at all, but they did. They also get the onion helm, which isn't even accessible to 2.0 CE players. All of that to me is them showing plenty of love. I'm sorry you disagree.

It's my honest opinion that they did the right thing. They gave an incentive for new players to purchase the game with early access and pre-order items, and they gave an incentive for players of 1.0 to either upgrade from regular copy, or to buy the game for another system to get the other items and early access, or just to experience it on a different platform. I honestly can't believe you're getting this upset over three days. Yeah, it's an advantage. Big whoop. How much of an advantage will it be even a couple weeks after launch? Almost non-existant.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
BartelX wrote:
I find that completely absurd.

As absurd as an early access program is for a 3 year old game. I agree


I don't see anything absurd about early access. I understand you do, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 10:21am by BartelX
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#53 Aug 21 2013 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
It was my understanding that ALL previous players get early access, not just legacy.

If you have a tattoo on the back of your neck, you play Saturday. Where was this said otherwise? Also... if this is the case it's kinda bs.. Like, 1.0 owners ARE punished for owning the game if that's the case...

But I think this is a grave misunderstanding on the term Legacy, in that SE has used that term interchangeably to describe previous account holders AND people with "legacy status".

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 10:20am by Louiscool

"Players who have fulfilled the requirements of the Legacy Campaign will be able to take part in early access and play before the official start of service."
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=14019fb32d90859f118dccb8cd96bf81c212957d
#54 Aug 21 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
It was my understanding that ALL previous players get early access, not just legacy.

If you have a tattoo on the back of your neck, you play Saturday. Where was this said otherwise? Also... if this is the case it's kinda bs.. Like, 1.0 owners ARE punished for owning the game if that's the case...

But I think this is a grave misunderstanding on the term Legacy, in that SE has used that term interchangeably to describe previous account holders AND people with "legacy status".

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 10:20am by Louiscool

"Players who have fulfilled the requirements of the Legacy Campaign will be able to take part in early access and play before the official start of service."
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=14019fb32d90859f118dccb8cd96bf81c212957d


I'm legacy, and this is shenanigans!
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#55 Aug 21 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

People really need to stop saying that. It's one thing to try and explain to people why they're not getting more, but the game is not free. They already paid for it. I also don't see the point in bringing up that the game was F2P during 1.0 to try and make it look better than it is. A large majority of the people who bought 1.0 and even Square Enix themselves didn't feel the game was worth it. What's the point of that?


No, they don't and here is why. You obviously failed to read my post where I illustrated the math of Legacy player to be at least $45 more than a non Legacy 1.0. Considering all this non-Legacy player has to do is pay $30, they're still ahead by at least $15. Take a Legacy player of 6 months and that's $90. The only group of players receiving FREE EARLY ACCESS is the Legacy group and the numbers speak for themselves. How is this so hard to understand?

On top of that, a 1.0 players has the ability to gain new pre-order goodies and early access for a pittance. If SE was charging 1.0 players to buy the game again, I would be on your side. That's not the case though and with all the goodies players from 1.0 got already, they're really only losing out on 3 lousy days. I paid $50 bucks for 3 lousy days and I'm not complaining.

FilthMcNasty wrote:

That said, early access is just a bad idea anyway because of the way it's set up. A 3 day advantage might not seem like much, but it's an advantage. I do feel that if SE was going to have pay-to-win access, they should have given it to the 1.0 CE owners. The 1.0 CE was pretty meh compared to the ARR CE and 1.0 CE owners only get the 14 day trial period. Show some love SE.

It's my honest opinion that it would just be the right thing to do. It doesn't make any sense to me that you would exclude anyone the opportunity to play with friends without having to pay for it... twice.


Look at the Beta 4 if you think 3 days is such an issue. I have many(like 5ppl) just from my group that couldn't log in at all during Open beta and still don't have a character on our server. They aren't at a disadvantage because if they're your friends, you help them out. We also have people in our group that don't have EA and those people aren't freaking out either. It's not a race to lv50. Besides if they're really your friends, chances are they might come over and hang with you or maybe chat on Mumble or something.

I'm not going to debate the value of 1.0 vs ARR CE box. I like some of the goodies from 1.0, but if you examine the items that really matter, they're really the same except the gloves from 1.0. The Light warrior helm and Mog hat basically do the same thing and only good up to lv10 anyways. Again, the 1.0 people can get both, the real travesty is that the 2.0 people can't get 1.0 items. If you want to see a blatant offense, there is one right there.





#56 Aug 21 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure why I am replying, but here goes:
I see some issues with both sides of this argument, but in the end we have to deal with it, because it's how SE decided to go with it.

People are arguing that Legacy Status players paid more for the game, but paying for the game and paying a subscription are separate things and can't be equated. Besides, I don't think the subscription model was $15/mo. I believe I subscribed somewhere between $10-$13/mo.
Also, I don't have legacy status anyway, because they never charged me 3 months due to them deciding to extend the free play. I TRIED to pay them, but they didn't want my money.

Long story short though, it was 2 years ago. The game failed. Get over it. I never asked for a new car from Funcom when Age of Conan ended up being the worst MMO launch ever. (Funcom has a rough history with MMO launches)

I was in beta for 1.0 and bought 2 CE packages. This time around, I bought the PS3 version so I can get early access and have platform flexibility. If you don't want to do that, it's really your problem and not SE's or ZAM's.

You didn't move to Canada because the US elected the president you didn't want them to, did you?
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#57 Aug 21 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Default
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most of you guys don't seem to understand, the game when free for a whole year afterward never bill you once when since released in 1.0. Then sub started.

If you can play that whole year and start a sub that mean real loyalty. If you didn't you have absolutely no loyalty to speak.

When in an army loyalty is rewarded, you reward your dog for being loyal. So i don't see the problem in it.
#58 Aug 21 2013 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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torokerusenjo wrote:
I was an original beta tester for 1.0 and then purchased the $80 CE of the game, played and paid up until March 2012 and I am not a legacy member on some technicality. However, I just paid the $30 for the game without complaining. I am missing other legacy benefits like having my name in the credits, but it's okay. It doesn't matter because in the end we all get to play and be happy. =^__^= Meow!


First off, Heya Toro!

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To the thread:

My opinion is that S-E should've allowed all 1.0 players Early Access, they wouldn't have been losing anything doing it as we all get the new game free anyways so most aren't buying a new copy just for 3 days EA. Unfortunately, they didn't do that, so we're in the boat we're in.

Of course 1.0 people who don't get EA are going to feel slighted. Not getting to play when all the other players are is a bit of a thorn in the paw. In the grand scheme, 3 days EA is a trivial matter.

I'm not saying that 1.0 Non-Legacy players deserve more, just that from a customer service standpoint S-E chose poorly.
#59 Aug 21 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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diiablo wrote:

I'm not saying that 1.0 Non-Legacy players deserve more, just that from a customer service standpoint S-E chose poorly.


I don't agree, but maybe you could shed some light in what you feel would of been a good choice for customer service. The way it is now is only the people that spent tons of money on the game despite the disaster of 1.0 get this for free. Everyone else including the 2.0 players and 1.0 non-legacy up graders are paying extra for it. I don't see the conflict here. SE was more than generous with the people that played 1.0 long ago offering all the in-game bonuses carrying over from 1.0. It's like when people play a game at launch and quit for years only to come back later because they want to come back for some reason. These people don't deserve any perks unless the perks were something like a welcome back campaign.
#60 Aug 21 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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Giving a $10 early access purchase option is the only possible idea I can think of. I doubt they even thought of doing that though. It's a bit unprecedented, but so is this whole situation.

Really though, when your free trial is up and you are considering whether or not to subscribe, I doubt this is going to be a major factor. Just move on.

I also hear people are ordering the game, getting the pre-order code and then cancelling their order. Not sure if this actually works and is definitely unethical, but just throwing that out there.
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#61Ehllfire, Posted: Aug 21 2013 at 11:53 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I agree SE chose wrong on the EA. That said they left loopholes to be exploited so enterprising indivduals are able to get in.
#62 Aug 21 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Preorder the game, get code, cancel preorder.
The only thing you lose is GameStop temporarily has your $5 bill.
#63 Aug 21 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Default
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Westyle wrote:
Preorder the game, get code, cancel preorder.
The only thing you lose is GameStop temporarily has your $5 bill.

Amazon lets you preorder for free.
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#64 Aug 21 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
It was my understanding that ALL previous players get early access, not just legacy.

If you have a tattoo on the back of your neck, you play Saturday. Where was this said otherwise? Also... if this is the case it's kinda bs.. Like, 1.0 owners ARE punished for owning the game if that's the case...

But I think this is a grave misunderstanding on the term Legacy, in that SE has used that term interchangeably to describe previous account holders AND people with "legacy status".

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 10:20am by Louiscool


It's distinctly possible. Popular thought was that only Legacy Status players would get in early to Phase 4, but they allowed everyone from 1.0 in the end. Just saying "Legacy has early access" is too ambiguous since it means two different things depending on who you ask.
#65 Aug 21 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
diiablo wrote:

I'm not saying that 1.0 Non-Legacy players deserve more, just that from a customer service standpoint S-E chose poorly.


I don't agree, but maybe you could shed some light in what you feel would of been a good choice for customer service. The way it is now is only the people that spent tons of money on the game despite the disaster of 1.0 get this for free. Everyone else including the 2.0 players and 1.0 non-legacy up graders are paying extra for it. I don't see the conflict here. SE was more than generous with the people that played 1.0 long ago offering all the in-game bonuses carrying over from 1.0. It's like when people play a game at launch and quit for years only to come back later because they want to come back for some reason. These people don't deserve any perks unless the perks were something like a welcome back campaign.


Like I said, the better option would've been to allow EA for all 1.0 players, not just those who qualified for Legacy. In the end, it amounts to 3 days of EA. Had S-E allowed all 1.0 players EA, we wouldn't be discussing this and everyone would be happy. I doubt the number of presales would've been aversly affected from those 1.0 players who bought a preorder just for EA (I'm thinking the number of players who did is small.)

Ehllfire wrote:
I agree SE chose wrong on the EA. That said they left loopholes to be exploited so enterprising indivduals are able to get in.


If they did indeed state that the loopholes are intentional, then this issue is moot. I have an EA code, if they don't mind that it doesn't equate to an actual preorder, then I won't have any qualms in using it.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 2:38pm by diiablo
#66 Aug 21 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Default
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diiablo wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
diiablo wrote:

I'm not saying that 1.0 Non-Legacy players deserve more, just that from a customer service standpoint S-E chose poorly.


I don't agree, but maybe you could shed some light in what you feel would of been a good choice for customer service. The way it is now is only the people that spent tons of money on the game despite the disaster of 1.0 get this for free. Everyone else including the 2.0 players and 1.0 non-legacy up graders are paying extra for it. I don't see the conflict here. SE was more than generous with the people that played 1.0 long ago offering all the in-game bonuses carrying over from 1.0. It's like when people play a game at launch and quit for years only to come back later because they want to come back for some reason. These people don't deserve any perks unless the perks were something like a welcome back campaign.


Like I said, the better option would've been to allow EA for all 1.0 players, not just those who qualified for Legacy. In the end, it amounts to 3 days of EA. Had S-E allowed all 1.0 players EA, we wouldn't be discussing this and everyone would be happy. I doubt the number of presales would've been aversly affected from those 1.0 players who bought a preorder just for EA (I'm thinking the number of players who did is small.)

Ehllfire wrote:
I agree SE chose wrong on the EA. That said they left loopholes to be exploited so enterprising indivduals are able to get in.


If they did indeed state that the loopholes are intentional, then this issue is moot. I have an EA code, if they don't mind that it doesn't equate to an actual preorder, then I won't have any qualms in using it.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 2:38pm by diiablo

They were not intentional from what I see, just a common flaw in preorders for mmos.
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#67 Aug 21 2013 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
But I think this is a grave misunderstanding on the term Legacy, in that SE has used that term interchangeably to describe previous account holders AND people with "legacy status".


They need to make this more confusing amirite? Try to follow this, I dare you...

If you are someone who payed for 3 consecutive months during the designated, yet arbitrary 'legacy' period of 1.0 subscription days; you have a 'legacy account'.

If you have a legacy account, the characters you played during said arbitrary period are 'legacy characters'.

If one of your characters(regardless of their legacy status or the account's legacy status) is on one of the original servers from the 1.0 version, you are playing on a 'legacy server'.

If you rolled a character since the close of version 1.0, that character is not a 'legacy character'; regardless of whether or not you rolled on a 'legacy server' AND/OR whether or not you are the owner of a 'legacy account'.


I'm not a violent person, but the next person I meet IRL who says the word 'legacy' is getting punched in the mowf Smiley: bah

BartelX wrote:
Well, considering 1.0 is almost an entirely new game, yes, you are getting a new game for free. If it was basically the same thing as 1.0 but with a new coat of paint, I'd agree with you. It's not. The point of bringing up that 1.0 was free is that it was free for over a year while they were feverishly trying to fix the game. They could have just as easily said "sorry folks, game sucks, we're cancelling it." but they didn't. They started putting out letters from the producer every couple weeks, asking for feedback, listening to the players and responding in a timely manner, all while still allowing people to play for free as they fixed it.


We all understand that the magnitude of the repairs required would take a long time, but when you accept money for a service that isn't up to standard it's expected that you're going to work to deliver a better product. Letter from the producer, listening and responding to feedback... all of that stuff is standard for most companies, yet for SE people somehow feel like it's exceptional service and I can't for the life of me figure out why. They've done a **** of a job with the game and I'll concede that easily, but it's not something that deserves paying for twice; especially considering it was paid for in advance and it was subscribed to for a fair bit of it's lifespan.

BartelX wrote:
And no, the 1.0 owners didn't "only get the 14 day trial period". They also got ALL of the ARR CE in-game items, which is amazing.


Context. Only as in, only 14 and not 30.

BartelX wrote:
They gave an incentive for new players to purchase the game with early access and pre-order items, and they gave an incentive for players of 1.0 to either upgrade from regular copy, or to buy the game for another system to get the other items and early access, or just to experience it on a different platform.

The incentive is an advantage over other players. The same incentive that people try to wield as an argument against F2P. "We don't want that pay-to-win stuff in our game kthx". There is no difference here. Spend some money and get a leg up on the crowd. "I don't want my game to restrict my content based on the size of my wallet". Did I miss something here? When did the sentiment change all of a sudden?
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#68 Aug 21 2013 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I feel like this thread is just a bunch of people saying the same things over and over and over again. They aren't going to change anything and no one here can do anything about it. The great thing about capitalism is that if you don't like a businesses practices, you can choose to spend your money elsewhere.
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#69 Aug 21 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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I've just had a call from the entire music industry. Somebody has stolen all the tiny violins.
#70 Aug 21 2013 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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Ehllfire wrote:
Westyle wrote:
Preorder the game, get code, cancel preorder.
The only thing you lose is GameStop temporarily has your $5 bill.

Amazon lets you preorder for free.


There's an extremely high probability that those codes will be locked by or shortly after launch, and all character information deleted if you do that. Most other MMO's do similar now. You can try it, but I don't expect it to work for more than a few hours. Not only that, but people have been saying the exact same thing on the ARR Beta forums, so SE is highly aware of it.

And this 3 day advantage is not an advantage at all. It's an advantage if this were the first launch, but there are lots and lots of people with one or several classes and jobs at 50 already. 3 days isn't going to catch you up to any of them. There's no tangible advantage for anyone with EA overall, just an incredibly small advantage against others who don't get in the EA and don't have anything else that needs to be done so they can play for 72 hours straight. That's an incredibly small portion of people that can claim an advantage at all, and that'll be more than gone a week after official launch. There's no real advantage here. Mountains out of mole hills.

I think that's enough on advantage. Too much usage of advantage, and the advantage is wearing thin.

Advantage.

Ad-vayn-tayge......

I need sleep.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 5:25pm by Medieve
#71 Aug 21 2013 at 3:30 PM Rating: Default
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Medieve wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
Westyle wrote:
Preorder the game, get code, cancel preorder.
The only thing you lose is GameStop temporarily has your $5 bill.

Amazon lets you preorder for free.


There's an extremely high probability that those codes will be locked by or shortly after launch, and all character information deleted if you do that. Most other MMO's do similar now. You can try it, but I don't expect it to work for more than a few hours. Not only that, but people have been saying the exact same thing on the ARR Beta forums, so SE is highly aware of it.

And this 3 day advantage is not an advantage at all. It's an advantage if this were the first launch, but there are lots and lots of people with one or several classes and jobs at 50 already. 3 days isn't going to catch you up to any of them. There's no tangible advantage for anyone with EA overall, just an incredibly small advantage against others who don't get in the EA and don't have anything else that needs to be done so they can play for 72 hours straight. That's an incredibly small portion of people that can claim an advantage at all, and that'll be more than gone a week after official launch. There's no real advantage here. Mountains out of mole hills.

I think that's enough on advantage. Too much usage of advantage, and the advantage is wearing thin.

Advantage.

Ad-vayn-tayge......

I need sleep.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 5:25pm by Medieve

Um it will work I already have an existing account. Secondly they have a couple week grace period. They arent going to erase an existing account that was around far longer than 3 days. Thirdly I gave my ps3 preorder to someone who is out of town for the rest of the month ;)
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#72 Aug 21 2013 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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Game hasn't opened up yet. I'd wait until Aug. 25th before I'd say it works.
#73 Aug 21 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
But I think this is a grave misunderstanding on the term Legacy, in that SE has used that term interchangeably to describe previous account holders AND people with "legacy status".


They need to make this more confusing amirite? Try to follow this, I dare you...

If you are someone who payed for 3 consecutive months during the designated, yet arbitrary 'legacy' period of 1.0 subscription days; you have a 'legacy account'.

If you have a legacy account, the characters you played during said arbitrary period are 'legacy characters'.

If one of your characters(regardless of their legacy status or the account's legacy status) is on one of the original servers from the 1.0 version, you are playing on a 'legacy server'.

If you rolled a character since the close of version 1.0, that character is not a 'legacy character'; regardless of whether or not you rolled on a 'legacy server' AND/OR whether or not you are the owner of a 'legacy account'.


I'm not a violent person, but the next person I meet IRL who says the word 'legacy' is getting punched in the mowf Smiley: bah



EXACTLY THIS!

Seriously, someone give SE a thesaurus.
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#74 Aug 21 2013 at 3:44 PM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
A 3 day advantage might not seem like much, but it's an advantage. I do feel that if SE was going to have pay-to-win access, they should have given it to the 1.0 CE owners. The 1.0 CE was pretty meh compared to the ARR CE and 1.0 CE owners only get the 14 day trial period. Show some love SE.

It's my honest opinion that it would just be the right thing to do. It doesn't make any sense to me that you would exclude anyone the opportunity to play with friends without having to pay for it... twice.



An advantage with what? I assume you are talking about PvP because otherwise what possible disadvantage do you have from not being in early access?
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#75 Aug 21 2013 at 4:05 PM Rating: Default
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Medieve wrote:
Game hasn't opened up yet. I'd wait until Aug. 25th before I'd say it works.

Most they'd do is remove the preorder items lol
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#76 Aug 21 2013 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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diiablo wrote:
torokerusenjo wrote:
I was an original beta tester for 1.0 and then purchased the $80 CE of the game, played and paid up until March 2012 and I am not a legacy member on some technicality. However, I just paid the $30 for the game without complaining. I am missing other legacy benefits like having my name in the credits, but it's okay. It doesn't matter because in the end we all get to play and be happy. =^__^= Meow!


First off, Heya Toro!

<-- Ayerc Atreides from Besaid/Balmung, BlitzBall Brigade and all that.

To the thread:

My opinion is that S-E should've allowed all 1.0 players Early Access, they wouldn't have been losing anything doing it as we all get the new game free anyways so most aren't buying a new copy just for 3 days EA. Unfortunately, they didn't do that, so we're in the boat we're in.

Of course 1.0 people who don't get EA are going to feel slighted. Not getting to play when all the other players are is a bit of a thorn in the paw. In the grand scheme, 3 days EA is a trivial matter.

I'm not saying that 1.0 Non-Legacy players deserve more, just that from a customer service standpoint S-E chose poorly.


I just saw this. I am so late. Hiya! Nice to meet you. ^_^
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