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Thaumaturge StrategiesFollow

#1 Aug 23 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have only gotten my THM up to 30 or so, but it seems I see other THMs using two strategies, the fire/blizzard rotation or a combination of thunder/fire with blizzard. Is it worth using thunder before you get the ability to proc an instant cast? And is anyone going to read this, inquiring minds want to know.

Edited, Aug 23rd 2013 2:45pm by PyrielDD
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#2 Aug 23 2013 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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I didn't run the numbers exactly, but Thunder without the proc felt like less damage than a single cast of fire. So I would probably just skip it on single mob fights. There is something to be said for spreading it in multimob, but you should probably just be Fire IIing or Blizzard IIing

Edited, Aug 23rd 2013 2:12pm by Lamneth
#3 Aug 23 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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IMO it's not worth casting thunder on trash. By the time you can see any benefit from thunder and thunder II the mob is nearly dead and you've put nearly no damage on it.

I have LOTS of success casting thunder on minibosses and boss mobs, however.
#4 Aug 23 2013 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I found fire/blizzard to work the best in most cases, the only time I really found thunder to work best, beyond when I want to change things up, is on fights like Ifrit where I have to keep moving. Slow burn fights or fights with lots of aoe thunder would be more consistent and prevent tunnel vision I think.
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#5 Aug 23 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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How useful is the AoE Blizzard spell? I used it a few times to try it out but it seemed pretty weak.
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#6 Aug 23 2013 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I find its main use is to bind, it is not as strong but as it roots enemy to the ground it can be very useful for kiting.
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#7 Aug 23 2013 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I used blizzard in FATE and got tons of xp. Just run into the mobs and cast blizzard and you don't need to worry about targeting.
#8 Aug 23 2013 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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Well, since you're at 30 already, this isn't a question that will be relevant to you much longer (you get Thundercloud at what.. 32?). However, I'll see if I can answer it.

Short Answer: No, it isn't worth using.

Long Answer: Maybe. Pre-Thundercloud Thunder spells have some limited use, but also a significant disadvantage. Unlike Bio or Aero, they aren't instant casts so you can't kite with it really well. However, it does make sense to use Thunder after Blizzard as part of a heal rotation when soloing melee mobs 5-10 levels higher than you (ex. Blizzard>Thunder>Scathe kite>(Thunder again if possible>)Sleep>Heal/MP regen>Repeat). Other than that, the lack of a free double-damage insta-cast proc leaves Thunder spells gimped enough to not generally be worth it, or at best be about equal to straight up casting Blizzard on your regen cycle. Regardless, you should never waste precious MP during your Fire cycle (esp after you get Fire starter), as it will always outshine Thunder regardless of the proc.

Where I see Thunder making the most sense before the insta-proc from Thundercloud becomes a possibility is enmity management. Generally I see low-DPS DOT spells incurring less enmity, though they producing similar damage in the long run (esp. on bosses). This can be a big deal for early THMs in pugs with new players (I see THMs pulling mobs off the tank all the time in the starter dungeons).

So, I guess the bottom line is that pre-Thundercloud Thunder best serves as A) a convenience for kiting, B) an enmity suppressor, and C) a good complement to Sleep when you can manage to squeeze it in.

After getting Thundercloud, however, I find it useful to keep Thunder up at all times. That said, I still never cast it during my Fire cycle unless it procs (free cast), and I just make sure I time it as the last cast before I transpose (or Fire III, I suppose).


Pro-tip: somewhat unrelated to the thunder conversation, casting Scathe immediately before a transpose keeps you from totally wasting a cast. Scathe animation + Transpose animation are roughly equivalent to the GCD, so you get to change your auras up while still throwing out a 140 pot DPS spell. So, it still doubles the cast time of transpose (in a way), but it lets you switch while effectively casting a 93% powered blizzard spell (blizz casts at 150 pot I believe).

Edited, Aug 23rd 2013 7:42pm by GilbertLapine

Edited, Aug 23rd 2013 7:49pm by GilbertLapine
#9 Aug 23 2013 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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Lotsa good info here already. Thanks for the answers.
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#10 Aug 25 2013 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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There was an amazing post on the old lodestone about THM/BLM rotations and their theoretical DPS. They owner said they would be re-posting it on the official but I can't get on there to see if it's there. The information posted and tested was very interesting to say the least, the THM/BLM spell casting choices are a very fun mechanic but definitely one that can be done optimally to achieve the best output.
#11 Aug 25 2013 at 8:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Only played THM in P3, but I found that it was good (in extended fights) to toss Thunder after transposing to the Blizzard cycle, as the effective potency exceeded Blizzard I, and the MP cost was irrelevant past the first regen tic. As others said though, Fire spells are the only things that should be occuring during Astral Fire.
#12 Aug 29 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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personally i've settled into a rotation like so (note i'm lvl 23 so no insta proc yet)

fire spam till no mana - transpose, 3 blizzards, thunder 2, transpose, fire spam.

Works well for me =)
#13 Aug 29 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Lately I've been casting thunder on any mobs the tank isn't targetting to let him build threat. On packs of 3+, I'll spam Fire II till OOM then transpose to blizzard. If I get aggro, I'll swift cast > blizzard 2 to root them. Otherwise I'll spam blizzard I and refresh lightning until transpose is off CD. Most times, I won't wait for transpose and will just fire II or fire I to get astral fire back and transpose at the end of the fight.

I thought Thundercloud would change my rotation up but the proc rate is so incredibly low. It's really disappointing and placing thunder on multiple targets doesn't seem to have any change (but, again, small sample size).

I think we will have a ton of versatility later on with sleep. I'm already using it like I did on RDM in FFXI to safeguard the healers from tanks that aren't paying attention. Blizzard II's bind is not to be underestimated either!

I usually incorporate scathe into my rotation if I realize that I won't be able to get another cast off before the mob dies. Pretty decent with improved scathe trait.
#14 Aug 29 2013 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Lately I've been casting thunder on any mobs the tank isn't targetting to let him build threat. On packs of 3+, I'll spam Fire II till OOM then transpose to blizzard. If I get aggro, I'll swift cast > blizzard 2 to root them. Otherwise I'll spam blizzard I and refresh lightning until transpose is off CD. Most times, I won't wait for transpose and will just fire II or fire I to get astral fire back and transpose at the end of the fight.

I thought Thundercloud would change my rotation up but the proc rate is so incredibly low. It's really disappointing and placing thunder on multiple targets doesn't seem to have any change (but, again, small sample size).

I think we will have a ton of versatility later on with sleep. I'm already using it like I did on RDM in FFXI to safeguard the healers from tanks that aren't paying attention. Blizzard II's bind is not to be underestimated either!

I usually incorporate scathe into my rotation if I realize that I won't be able to get another cast off before the mob dies. Pretty decent with improved scathe trait.


Basically the same. I Thunder II first thing after transposing if possible (and if it's on a mob where it's worthwhile to use it), then spam Blizzard until I can transpose again.

I don't have access to Blizzard II yet, but it seems like it'll be super useful for protecting the healer (much like Sleep).

When soloing I usually pull with Thunder II, but in dungeons I only typically use it on boss mobs or on secondary targets if there will be time for it to tick its full duration. Thundercloud makes it worth using, but it's still not super great. Haven't gotten to test if it ticking on multiple mobs increases the proc chance or not.
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#15 Aug 29 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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Blizzard II is 12 and thunder II is 22. :P I sure hope you have blizz II!
#16 Aug 29 2013 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well I am level 50 now and just finished the story line. I find my rotation now is Thunder III to open to let tanks gain aggro, than Fire III, than Fire I until I get an insta cast Fire III or get low MP, than Blizzard III and reapply Thunder III than back to Fire III. Seems to work quite well and I'm almost constantly casting Fire I.

I'm not sure how you would get more dps than that rotation.

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#17 Aug 30 2013 at 2:45 AM Rating: Good
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What is everyone's strat for FATE groups? I find it hard to get casts off outside of scathe and swiftcast.
#18 Sep 04 2013 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
What is everyone's strat for FATE groups? I find it hard to get casts off outside of scathe and swiftcast.


If the FATE involves lots of mobs, I set my Chocobo companion on heal stance and I start AoEing. If the FATE involves a single mobs, I set my Chocobo companion to DPS stance and start nuking Fire and then Ice to recover. If I'm on a FATE team, I don't use my Chocobo companion due to the issue of not being able to use a mount while the companion is out.
#19 Oct 01 2013 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
What is everyone's strat for FATE groups? I find it hard to get casts off outside of scathe and swiftcast.


Zerg with Blizzard II, run when aggroed and use Manawall. Works for me until they figure out how PS3 players can see the mobs to target them.
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