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How you are possibly being manipulated into liking this gameFollow

#27 Aug 23 2013 at 7:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Azurymber wrote:

I'm watching people get hyped up just like at 1.0 and I know exactly what will happen 3 months from now.
Edited, Aug 23rd 2013 8:56pm by Azurymber


So did you use rabbit or bird entrails for that augury?

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#28 Aug 23 2013 at 7:07 PM Rating: Good
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Azurymber wrote:
So far, based on logic, no one should have high hopes for this game.


Azurymber wrote:
Personally, I have very high hopes.


Your original post included both those statements. You've contradicted yourself and discredited yourself by implying that you're illogical. This whole threat is just comical now.






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#29 Aug 23 2013 at 7:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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What you titled it: How you are possibly being manipulated into liking this game
How I would have titled it: MMO Launches and Manipulation

They didn't teach you about maintaining an objective standpoint and not treating your readers to a bias? Heck, a close friend of mine has a bachelor's in Psych and they taught that at the 100-level.
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#30 Aug 23 2013 at 7:10 PM Rating: Default
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Redding wrote:
Azurymber wrote:

I'm watching people get hyped up just like at 1.0 and I know exactly what will happen 3 months from now.
Edited, Aug 23rd 2013 8:56pm by Azurymber


So did you use rabbit or bird entrails for that augury?



logic and years of experience in marketing.

And the fact that problems I brought up years ago are still problems
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=319&mid=128354293059648952&h=50&p=1
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=319&mid=1283725939158861520#33
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=319&mid=1325839110236127027&h=50&p=1
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=319&mid=128526957471285740#17
#31Azurymber, Posted: Aug 23 2013 at 7:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) context.
#32 Aug 23 2013 at 7:16 PM Rating: Excellent
Azurymber wrote:


I'm watching people get hyped up just like at 1.0 and I know exactly what will happen 3 months from now.

Edited, Aug 23rd 2013 8:56pm by Azurymber


Not sure which game you were following with 1.0, but after Alpha and Beta, just about everybody who participated in it was saying if they don't fix this stuff, it's going to die a horrible horrible death. Sure there were a few hyped up folk who couldn't believe SE would release such a product, but the majority of us knew what was coming. Also, god **** I hate it when "psych majors" bring their theories to video games.

"I'm qualified, I have a degree or a doctorate!" Yes...you and the 50,000 others from your country who graduated from their program. Congratulations, you've done what most people do, get an education!

Edited, Aug 23rd 2013 9:16pm by Montsegurnephcreep
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#33 Aug 23 2013 at 7:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love when people try to tell me the psychology of why I made a decision as if I had no agency or power to make a choice for myself. I believe marketing can and does influence decisions but I don't believe it controls me or my destiny. At the end of the day I decide what I like or dislike what I'm going to spend my time doing or not.
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#34 Aug 23 2013 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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That explains the bias.

Your third link is the only one that remotely has any merit, and the rest of the links lead me to believe that you haven't played ARR at all and you're going off your FFXIV 1.0 intuitions.
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#35 Aug 23 2013 at 7:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Azurymber wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Azurymber wrote:

[...]
I hope this post didn't offend anyone. I just thought some people might be interested in the marketing tactics that make games a success.


No offense to you, but it's starting to get pretty offensive seeing a doom and gloom thread from you that subtly condemns everyone who likes the game as being manupulated, covered in a wall of text. You sound like you potentially like the game but are feeling incredibly insecure about it, and thus have the need to put yourself down massively to justify things. Please save the doomsaying for a month or so AFTER the game is released, hmmm?


Why, check my history. i doomsayed at the start of 1.0, got the exact same responses as here, and was mostly correct about all the problems I said would be problems :p

I'm watching people get hyped up just like at 1.0 and I know exactly what will happen 3 months from now.



I think you the problem is that you are either misremembering history or have a very skewed view of what people are saying now.

I too played 1.0 beta, and I too was very critical. And I do remember getting rated down and called a troll, etc.

Here's the problem with the comparison:

1.0 was genuinely a crap game. There were many obvious flaws with it. People who defended it or felt hyped about it generally fell into two categories: Those who hadn't played it at all and those who had played it and were expecting a miracle patch to fix the flaws they saw while playing.

2.0 Is not crappy. The people who like it most are the people who have actually played it. No one is waiting for a patch to "fix" anything, because there's nothing inherently broken. Some one doesn't have to use their imagination to think of how the game might be fun to play, because it's already fun to play.

Also, the psychological principles you're talking about tend to be very weak, and they depend on having to commit up front. You tend to like the car you bought possibly as a coping mechanism for the fact that you paid a lot for it and can't easily recoup your investment. A car isn't very fungible so even if you bought a bad one, you might tend to over estimate how good it is. Similar for a spouse or a child. People tend to think more highly of family in part because they're basically stuck with them for life.

Pre ordering or playing a few beta weekends isn't nearly the same level of commitment. You can generally get back your small pre order deposit, if you even had to pay one, and most of the effort in beta testing is irrelevant, since servers were wiped prior to last weekend.

Experienced MMO players understand that the substantial commitment comes after launch. Hundreds or thousands of hours invested in a character, hundreds or thousands of dollars invested in subscriptions, etc. A 5 dollar deposit and a few weekends of play are a tiny portion of the total cost, and are very unlikely to influence some one's thinking about an MMO if they have some concept of how little an investment that really is.

I can't speak for every one else, but I beta tested Warhammer Online and pre ordered. Didn't buy it. Pre ordered and beta tested Age of Conan, didn't buy it. Pre ordered and beta tested FF14 v1.0, didn't buy it (wouldn't have played it if you paid me too, based on my experience in beta). I pre ordered and beta tested Guild Wars 2, and bought it. Same for RIFT. Why? Because those games were polished and fun in beta, and the others weren't.

The ideas you're talking about, they're relevant to human thinking in general, but not especially relevant to this game, and as such, that knowledge probably doesn't justify telling people that their preferences in this regard are merely an illusion.
#36 Aug 23 2013 at 7:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Of course everyone who plays a video game is manipulated into liking it. It's called a Skinner box. That's day one of game theory.
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#37 Aug 23 2013 at 7:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
Of course everyone who plays a video game is manipulated into liking it. It's called a Skinner box. That's day one of game theory.


Skinner hates that name, he prefers Operant Conditioning Chamber, but he was a bit of a nutjob.
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#38 Aug 23 2013 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Someone just bought their Psych 101 book!
#39 Aug 23 2013 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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The game launches in a few hours, depending on where you are, and we've spent the day discussing homosexual marriage and psychology. I'm speechless to be honest.

Anyone excited for Manchester United vs Chelsea on Monday?
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#40 Aug 23 2013 at 7:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I may be wrong but a number of these things have been addressed I believe. They've added more substance with 2.0 from the things I've seen and read. As for the economy that can really go either way. It will likely end up vastly different server to server. Just like XI. Some servers the AH was dead others it was pretty busy. Pretty sure click and buy is gone. Believe I saw them post something about that.
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Cannibalism is a valid means of debate. Your opponent presents their side of the argument and you respond in kind by consuming their liver. Thus the debate ends with you having proved your point. As a boon for being such a master of the debationary arts few people will wish to confront you in such a manner in the future.
#41 Aug 23 2013 at 7:26 PM Rating: Default
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KarlHungis wrote:
Azurymber wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
Azurymber wrote:

[...]
I hope this post didn't offend anyone. I just thought some people might be interested in the marketing tactics that make games a success.


No offense to you, but it's starting to get pretty offensive seeing a doom and gloom thread from you that subtly condemns everyone who likes the game as being manupulated, covered in a wall of text. You sound like you potentially like the game but are feeling incredibly insecure about it, and thus have the need to put yourself down massively to justify things. Please save the doomsaying for a month or so AFTER the game is released, hmmm?


Why, check my history. i doomsayed at the start of 1.0, got the exact same responses as here, and was mostly correct about all the problems I said would be problems :p

I'm watching people get hyped up just like at 1.0 and I know exactly what will happen 3 months from now.



I think you the problem is that you are either misremembering history or have a very skewed view of what people are saying now.

I too played 1.0 beta, and I too was very critical. And I do remember getting rated down and called a troll, etc.

Here's the problem with the comparison:

1.0 was genuinely a crap game. There were many obvious flaws with it. People who defended it or felt hyped about it generally fell into two categories: Those who hadn't played it at all and those who had played it and were expecting a miracle patch to fix the flaws they saw while playing.

2.0 Is not crappy. The people who like it most are the people who have actually played it. No one is waiting for a patch to "fix" anything, because there's nothing inherently broken. Some one doesn't have to use their imagination to think of how the game might be fun to play, because it's already fun to play.

Also, the psychological principles you're talking about tend to be very weak, and they depend on having to commit up front. You tend to like the car you bought possibly as a coping mechanism for the fact that you paid a lot for it and can't easily recoup your investment. A car isn't very fungible so even if you bought a bad one, you might tend to over estimate how good it is. Similar for a spouse or a child. People tend to think more highly of family in part because they're basically stuck with them for life.

Pre ordering or playing a few beta weekends isn't nearly the same level of commitment. You can generally get back your small pre order deposit, if you even had to pay one, and most of the effort in beta testing is irrelevant, since servers were wiped prior to last weekend.

Experienced MMO players understand that the substantial commitment comes after launch. Hundreds or thousands of hours invested in a character, hundreds or thousands of dollars invested in subscriptions, etc. A 5 dollar deposit and a few weekends of play are a tiny portion of the total cost, and are very unlikely to influence some one's thinking about an MMO if they have some concept of how little an investment that really is.

I can't speak for every one else, but I beta tested Warhammer Online and pre ordered. Didn't buy it. Pre ordered and beta tested Age of Conan, didn't buy it. Pre ordered and beta tested FF14 v1.0, didn't buy it (wouldn't have played it if you paid me too, based on my experience in beta). I pre ordered and beta tested Guild Wars 2, and bought it. Same for RIFT. Why? Because those games were polished and fun in beta, and the others weren't.

The ideas you're talking about, they're relevant to human thinking in general, but not especially relevant to this game, and as such, that knowledge probably doesn't justify telling people that their preferences in this regard are merely an illusion.


I love this post
You win a cookie!
I won't argue with you but I will point out that many people have posted things like
"20,000 people not being able to log in isn't a problem"
or "there is no problem with entering codes" even though there were almost 40 diff topics on it across boards with 100s of responses
etc.
Those were the people I was mainly talking about.
The ones who think that even if 20% of NA can't get into the game, it isn't an issue at all because of x-excuse.

Catwho wrote:
Of course everyone who plays a video game is manipulated into liking it. It's called a Skinner box. That's day one of game theory.

That was what i was going to post about next if i wouldn't have got rated down :p But yeah i tried mentioning that around 1.0 and people raged.
#42 Aug 23 2013 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Think we can mix in a little Pavlov discussion while we're at it here? I love me some classical conditioning.
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#43 Aug 23 2013 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well this is a new development. Apparently I don't actually like what I like.

Why is it so hard for you to swallow the fact that people are going to play this game and enjoy it? Some people just surprise the **** out of me.
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#44Azurymber, Posted: Aug 23 2013 at 7:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sorry but German Football is where it's at now.
#45Azurymber, Posted: Aug 23 2013 at 7:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sure, lets do that.
#46 Aug 23 2013 at 7:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Satisiun wrote:
Think we can mix in a little Pavlov discussion while we're at it here? I love me some classical conditioning.


Discussion of the forum's Karma system is strictly forbidden by the mods.

#47 Aug 23 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tad off topic but I for one would like to see one of these topics or one of the ones on *** marriage just devolve into cannibalism for a change. I mean that'd be something fresh and new for everyone to experience I'm sure. It'd bring a whole new light into such debates.

Don't like what that guy said? Well now you've the option to eat his liver. Make it happen Devs<3
____________________________
Cannibalism is a valid means of debate. Your opponent presents their side of the argument and you respond in kind by consuming their liver. Thus the debate ends with you having proved your point. As a boon for being such a master of the debationary arts few people will wish to confront you in such a manner in the future.
#48 Aug 23 2013 at 7:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Azurymber wrote:
Satisiun wrote:
Think we can mix in a little Pavlov discussion while we're at it here? I love me some classical conditioning.


Sure, lets do that.
With 2.0 fishing you just sit there hitting enter (or hitting a button) every time you hear a sound or see a motion
Do you think after doing it 300-500 times a day for a week, you would feel an urge to do it if the sound suddenly came on?


Fishing is operant conditioning not classical conditioning.
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#49 Aug 23 2013 at 7:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Phoenix904 wrote:
Quote:
So how are you being manipulated?
Pre-Orders.
By having you pre-order a game (and bribing you to do it with bonuses), SE, and any other video game companies using the method, are creating post-decisional dissonance. In other words, you are subconsciously being manipulated into liking the game more, because you invested in it.


Or maybe, just maybe, I liked the game originally which is the reason why I pre-ordered. Meaning the fact that I pre-ordered had absolutely no bearing on me liking the game. I played FFXI, I played beta, I like FF, and I enjoyed this game up to this point.


Not taking sides here, but that's not really what it means. Because there are goodies attached, it's easier for people who do pre-order to justify making their purchase. Almost any company marketing a product does this to some extent. It's not always the case and I'm not trying to come across like it is, but most of the time that's how people make decisions. That's just how it works. I'm not condemning anyone for being manipulated(if it makes people feel that badly), but it's pretty obvious that it's a tactic used to market and sell goods.

You've never played 1.0, but consider the people who already bought the game. What other motivation could they have to pre-order and purchase something they already own? Every time I've asked someone on these boards why they'd buy the game twice, they say because they didn't want to miss out on early access or because they wanted one or both of the bonus items. It's a digital download so it's not like it's going to be out of stock.

I'm not sure why this upsets people. I find it interesting that SE completely removed the necessity of buying the game again for the sake of the game, yet they still have a mass of people who will buy it for perks alone.


Disclaimer: Real talk for grown folks who can look past what they want for themselves and see the bigger picture.

SE is in a unique position here, there is no denying that. They will be able to see how many people are registering codes for pre-order bonuses on accounts that existed prior to ARR. We all know they want to stick to a sub model and we already know why, but the data they are able to get from this would provide a lot of insight into how well micro-transactions would do. Jus sayin Smiley: cool



Azurymber wrote:
It's a result of millions of years of evolution from a brain stem in a fish to a competent and cognitive functioning brain that has conscious thought.

Everybody knows that God created the earth 5k years ago Smiley: sly

Edited, Aug 23rd 2013 9:39pm by FilthMcNasty
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#50 Aug 23 2013 at 7:41 PM Rating: Good
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Redding wrote:
Tad off topic but I for one would like to see one of these topics or one of the ones on *** marriage just devolve into cannibalism for a change. I mean that'd be something fresh and new for everyone to experience I'm sure. It'd bring a whole new light into such debates.

Don't like what that guy said? Well now you've the option to eat his liver. Make it happen Devs<3

That happens on the ESO forums I visit, but it's often Bosmer roleplay.
#51 Aug 23 2013 at 7:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
That happens on the ESO forums I visit, but it's often Bosmer roleplay.


But it's just not the same.
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Cannibalism is a valid means of debate. Your opponent presents their side of the argument and you respond in kind by consuming their liver. Thus the debate ends with you having proved your point. As a boon for being such a master of the debationary arts few people will wish to confront you in such a manner in the future.
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