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#52Ivart, Posted: Aug 25 2013 at 11:10 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes it's a game. A game I CONTRACTED and paid for to play starting August 23. SE has not delivered. A class action lawsuit would compensate everyone who PAID specifically for EA (like me) at the very least. You file in federal court, get the class certified and off ya go. Chances are SE will settle out of court by offering a few free months. I'm completely serious.
#53 Aug 25 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
How can SE compensate?


Buy some big trucks?
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#54 Aug 25 2013 at 11:12 AM Rating: Excellent
Ivart wrote:
Yes it's a game. A game I CONTRACTED and paid for to play starting August 23. SE has not delivered. A class action lawsuit would compensate everyone who PAID specifically for EA (like me) at the very least. You file in federal court, get the class certified and off ya go. Chances are SE will settle out of court by offering a few free months. I'm completely serious.


We're half-way into day 2 and we've already escalated to class-action lawsuits? I know we have a LOT of unemployed lawyers here in 'Murica, but wow.

Wow.
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#55Ehllfire, Posted: Aug 25 2013 at 11:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Whats the f'ing point of early access when no one gets to play? This is the WORST Early access Ive ever seen.
#56 Aug 25 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
Turgis wrote:
I personally am not demanding compensating; but, I expect SE to do something to address the dissatisfaction that's spreading like a staff infection amongst it's player base. It's what a proper manager/owner should do in times like this. Proper gameplay and server functionality are to be expected, and not a 'compensation' for something you already and will continue to pay for.

So, what, pray tell, are you asking for? @#%^ing magic? Writing code takes time. Testing takes time. Rigging up servers, installing programs, routing... all take time. You obviously have no ******* clue how the magic box you sit at works, but there are not fanciful little leprechauns running about, passing your "bits" and "bytes" around, and painting the pretty pictures that make you able to see these words on your screen.

sh*t happened. Stuff broke. Reality exceeded prediction. This is normal, and when it's done, no one will give two @#%^s. Losing your tiny little mind will change absolutely none of this, and just makes you look spastic and retarded. So, do yourself a favour: Shut down your PC, turn off your console, and exit your home. It's likely a lovely day outside, and the fresh air and perspective will do you good.

Edit:
Ivart wrote:
Yes it's a game. A game I CONTRACTED and paid for to play starting August 23. SE has not delivered. A class action lawsuit would compensate everyone who PAID specifically for EA (like me) at the very least. You file in federal court, get the class certified and off ya go. Chances are SE will settle out of court by offering a few free months. I'm completely serious.

Are...

Really?

Are you that ******* utterly retarded? You realize that you did not contract **** you ******* moron. Every single ************* online game has a nice, LARGE clause. Here is FFXIV's.

Quote:
5. INTERRUPTION TO THE SERVICE

From time to time, in order to provide our customers with the optimal gaming experience, it is necessary for SQUARE ENIX to conduct routine maintenance on the computers and/or servers that support the Game. During these times, access to the Game or support services may be interrupted. Access may also be temporarily suspended in whole or in part, without notice, due to emergency repairs, fire, flood, explosion, war, strike, embargo, governmental action or failure to act, the act of any civil or military authority, act of God, or by any other causes beyond SQUARE ENIX’s control, or any other reasons for which SQUARE ENIX, in its sole discretion, deems that temporary suspension is necessary. You acknowledge that disruptions of service may occur and waive any causes of action against SQUARE ENIX in any way arising from or related to any such disruptions of service.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=902&la=1&tag=useragreement_e

So, you don't have ******* grounds to sue you tool.

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 1:19pm by Pawkeshup
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#57Ivart, Posted: Aug 25 2013 at 11:18 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If there are even 1,000 1.0 people who paid the $30 for EA that's $30,000 in damages - if they had 150,000 on the last Beta and have sold 700,000 games, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think there might be tens of thousands of 1.0 players who paid the 30 - if there are 10,000, the claim is $300,000
#58 Aug 25 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Ivart wrote:
If there are even 1,000 1.0 people who paid the $30 for EA that's $30,000 in damages - if they had 150,000 on the last Beta and have sold 700,000 games, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think there might be tens of thousands of 1.0 players who paid the 30 - if there are 10,000, the claim is $300,000


You can do math. Congratulations. Doesn't make the idea of a class-action lawsuit any less ridiculous.
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#59 Aug 25 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
IKickYoDog wrote:
Ivart wrote:
If there are even 1,000 1.0 people who paid the $30 for EA that's $30,000 in damages - if they had 150,000 on the last Beta and have sold 700,000 games, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think there might be tens of thousands of 1.0 players who paid the 30 - if there are 10,000, the claim is $300,000


You can do math. Congratulations. Doesn't make the idea of a class-action lawsuit any less ridiculous.

Or even legally possible.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#60 Aug 25 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
41 posts
Lawsuits won't work, and the threat of them has less effect than an FF fanboy wearing high heels while strutting a Rat Tail (and a **** red-headed one at that).
#61 Aug 25 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
Yeah, so...

Some people really need to chill out!

Look, I pretty much planned on doing nothing this weekend except playing FFXIV... just like all y'all. Unfortunately, though, a newly launching MMO had problems (GASP!). So, I couldn't just sit in one place and punch buttons all weekend.

You know what I did instead?

I barbecued... I watched a movie with my wife... we made a rare DQ run and got blizzards... I did a little extra work... did some laundry... played with the cats... talked to some family... shot the breeze with my neighbor... and, amid all of that, still spent plenty of time in FFXIV.

This morning, I saw there was more maintenance coming, so I didn't even try to log in. Instead, I went to the gym, swam for 35 minutes, got a nice cup of coffee and took my time driving back home.

Here's what I didn't do:

I didn't get mad or angry. I didn't pound my keyboard. I didn't write up imaginary class-action lawsuits. I didn't spew ignorant, condescending remarks toward a development team (and company) that dove into red ink just to please us.

It's OK to be bummed about this, but anyone who is seriously angry about this needs to step back. There's no good reason to have so much negative energy over incredibly short-term MMO server outages. Seriously... take a breather. Most of us (I think) are adults, and we're immersed each day in real problems with real consequences. Don't let something that's ultimately fun and meaningless become so serious that it makes you anxious or stressed out.

Just... relax.

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 10:26am by Thayos
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#62Ivart, Posted: Aug 25 2013 at 11:26 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well, actually the covenant not to sue can be avoided. :) It's like the waiver you sign when you go skiing - it says you will hold them harmless but you cannot waive your common law rights in a contract and ski areas are frequently sued for personal injuries. Also the cost of litigation encourages settlement. It's a colorable argument that will survive a motion to dismiss and the damages range makes it doable.
#63 Aug 25 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I would've spent the downtime having coital relations with my girlfriend, but she's out of town this weekend... which was supposed to be a good thing so that I could focus on playing! Life... such a cruel thing it is.
#64 Aug 25 2013 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default
41 posts
Ivart wrote:
Well, actually the covenant not to sue can be avoided. :) It's like the waiver you sign when you go skiing - it says you will hold them harmless but you cannot waive your common law rights in a contract and ski areas are frequently sued for personal injuries. Also the cost of litigation encourages settlement. It's a colorable argument that will survive a motion to dismiss and the damages range makes it doable.


Very true; good point. Any place can give you a waiver to release them from responsibility in case of harm or theft, but all you have to do is prove negligence resulted in that damage occurring, and you're golden. Law is a tricky thing and full of loop-holes. Good thing we have plenty of unemployed lawyers who thought getting a law degree instead of a technical degree was a smart choice... Bwuhahaha.
#65 Aug 25 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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No doubt - I respect all of your opinions. I wasn't trying to say that's life is more important than anyone else's.

I'm reserving judgement and will continue to play; however, expressing concern and having positive expectations for something you pay for shouldn't be considered crying. I hope this game delivers as advertised.

It's all good though. Enjoy the game!
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#66 Aug 25 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
Ivart wrote:
Well, actually the covenant not to sue can be avoided. :) It's like the waiver you sign when you go skiing - it says you will hold them harmless but you cannot waive your common law rights in a contract and ski areas are frequently sued for personal injuries. Also the cost of litigation encourages settlement. It's a colorable argument that will survive a motion to dismiss and the damages range makes it doable.

Personal injury law =/= suing for items outside of basic need.

So here's a thought, obviously you either are a personal injury lawyer, or know a few (or have google skills). Try finding a precedent for this case. Go for it. Just try. No lawyer would waste their time, but if you are one and want to, go ahead and spend hundreds of dollars you won't get back filing paperwork that SE will laugh at and toss back in your face.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#67TheOneFin, Posted: Aug 25 2013 at 11:32 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Pawkeshup you loser. You rated down my post to be a j/o.
#68 Aug 25 2013 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Any time anyone without a law degree mentions lawsuits, God laughs until he starts coughing.
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#69 Aug 25 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
expressing concern and having positive expectations for something you pay for shouldn't be considered crying.


For sure! It's OK to voice concern. There's a line though between voicing concern and being unnecessarily angry, and there's absolutely no rational reason to cross that line over video game server problems.
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#70 Aug 25 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Default
41 posts
DuskCactuar wrote:
Any time anyone without a law degree mentions lawsuits, God laughs until he starts coughing.


Are we talking about a good law degree, a law degree-holder with actual experience, an ambulance-chaser, etc... The world needs to know!

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 1:34pm by Turgis
#71 Aug 25 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent
TheOneFin wrote:
Pawkeshup you loser. You rated down my post to be a j/o.


D'awwww did that lil red arrow hurt your wittle feelings? Do you need a hug, buddy?

edit:

You realize Karma is meaningless, and even if you red-arrow me back, I don't really give a ****. I do it to support or negatively impact posts I may or may not reply to. I didn't think yours needed a reply, but that I still didn't like it's tone.

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 1:36pm by Pawkeshup
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#72Ivart, Posted: Aug 25 2013 at 11:36 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's question of good legal writing, not necessarily having a supporting case right on point. In defending SE's certain motion to dismiss on waiver, you win the judge's sympathy by arguing that this very large class of nice, innocent and helpless customers had a modest and quite reasonable expectation, for the limited period of the EA, that SE would deliver $30 worth of goods. Buddy, I'd love that challenge, I know I could get close enough for SE to decide it was better PR and to save legal fees to compensate for the lost EA
#73 Aug 25 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
Ivart wrote:
It's question of good legal writing, not necessarily having a supporting case right on point. In defending SE's certain motion to dismiss on waiver, you win the judge's sympathy by arguing that this very large class of nice, innocent and helpless customers had a modest and quite reasonable expectation, for the limited period of the EA, that SE would deliver $30 worth of goods. Buddy, I'd love that challenge, I know I could get close enough for SE to decide it was better PR and to save legal fees to compensate for the lost EA


Or SE states "Your honour, after a day and a half, these bozos filed a lawsuit for a bonus feature", judge laughs, dismisses the case and you pay for SE's lawyers, and the entire Internet laughs at your attempt.

It'd likely be that one.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#74TheOneFin, Posted: Aug 25 2013 at 11:39 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No - but I envy your cyber-prowess. Have you ever touched a woman? Of age? I know your type. Lifelong griefer compensating for your real-life failures. Go ahead, flex your toughness behind the keyboard.
#75 Aug 25 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Magilicotti wrote:
Good. Bad. Buggy. Laggy. Hard. Easy. Up. Down. Left. Right. B. A. Start.

I don't care. I'll be here, cause the game is fun to me. Not bothered by the errors and maintenance's what so ever.


I couldn't have agree more with you :D

#76 Aug 25 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Turgis wrote:
DuskCactuar wrote:
Any time anyone without a law degree mentions lawsuits, God laughs until he starts coughing.


Are we talking about a good law degree, a law degree-holder with actual experience, an ambulance-chaser, etc... The world needs to know!

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 1:34pm by Turgis


Any accredited law program will require you to at least stop being an idiot for a while and work pretty hard, at least as far as I know. When I was in school I had a bunch of friends in law school (at a large state university, so not harvard or anything but not podunk community college either). It was pretty rigorous, demanding course work. By the time you're done, you should at least have a basic understanding of how tort and liability work. Heck, I do, and I only took a few undergrad legal studies classes to help bone up on my copyright/information security law stuff since that was what all the cool geek kids were doing.
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#77 Aug 25 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
TheOneFin wrote:
Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
TheOneFin wrote:
Pawkeshup you loser. You rated down my post to be a j/o.


D'awwww did that lil red arrow hurt your wittle feelings? Do you need a hug, buddy?


No - but I envy your cyber-prowess. Have you ever touched a woman? Of age? I know your type. Lifelong griefer compensating for your real-life failures. Go ahead, flex your toughness behind the keyboard.

Oh, wow, really?

We're on the "internet tough guy" thing? Ha! You're awesome. You're the one upset that an imaginary value in an imaginary karma system was decremented by a single number on a pointless internet forum. I mean, you were so upset, you've made two more posts about it? And now are stooping to insults? Woooow, you're classy! Stay classy buddy!

Edit:

Daaa crap, can someone green Cactuar? I clicked back on the forum and it was right on the red arrow ffs!

Edit the 2nd:

Danka, I hate when I do that, I'd have green'd that bish...

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 1:50pm by Pawkeshup
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#78 Aug 25 2013 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
41 posts
DuskCactuar wrote:
Turgis wrote:
DuskCactuar wrote:
Any time anyone without a law degree mentions lawsuits, God laughs until he starts coughing.


Are we talking about a good law degree, a law degree-holder with actual experience, an ambulance-chaser, etc... The world needs to know!

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 1:34pm by Turgis


Any accredited law program will require you to at least stop being an idiot for a while and work pretty hard, at least as far as I know. When I was in school I had a bunch of friends in law school (at a large state university, so not harvard or anything but not podunk community college either). It was pretty rigorous, demanding course work. By the time you're done, you should at least have a basic understanding of how tort and liability work. Heck, I do, and I only took a few undergrad legal studies classes to help bone up on my copyright/information security law stuff since that was what all the cool geek kids were doing.


A lot of degrees have you working hard though. A creative writing class with an insane teacher can do that. That doesn't mean you're a guru of knowledge. But I will consent that law is pretty complex, as are economics, business, accounting, finance, history, math, geology, biology, chemistry, programming, etc... (if you get the picture). Generally (GENERALLY) anyone with a degree or high level of technical expertise will understand the complexities of issues, or at least respect them if they don't fully understand them.

That doesn't people won't get mad or have a limit to which they'll then get mad. =)
#79TheOneFin, Posted: Aug 25 2013 at 11:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You began the negativity with your a-hole "go-home" comment after the OP. It's all good bro - but why be a j/o just to be a j/o?
#80 Aug 25 2013 at 11:48 AM Rating: Default
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I wouldn't ask for "compensation" for the many, many hindrances to accessing our product, but we'd better sure as heck have access to at least one free server transfer after the launch time frame has ended.
#81 Aug 25 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
TheOneFin wrote:
You began the negativity with your a-hole "go-home" comment after the OP. It's all good bro - but why be a j/o just to be a j/o?

Yes, because you posted your melodramatic post about how, after a day and a half, you still couldn't play a vidja game!

And technically I said "Now go away", as in, "Leave the forums", as in "Currently the forums are filling with this ****, this particular **** is worse because it's way more melodramatic so now I will leave a comment replying to the overblown concerns, then tell the user that perhaps it's time to shut off the internet and go into real life for a bit to gain a better perspective."
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#82 Aug 25 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Default
30 posts
Just give EA players an in game item, such as 1k gil each. Will prolly shut up the whine for a week.
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#83 Aug 25 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Legacy Status for ALL PS3ers!!!!


Catwho wrote:
Even though this is troll bait, I'll bite. It's a good question.

How about give everyone in EA an extra three days before they start billing?


Or this. This is fine too.
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#84 Aug 25 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Default
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SE definitely will need to do something. You can't sell a preorder item for early access and then people are unable to play. They're going to have to build in some free play time or SOMETHING for people who preordered. They're already doing the community a disservice by constantly failing at the FF MMO titles.
#85 Aug 25 2013 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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Umm... is this the line to the restroom ? 8)
People need to relax a bit... I want to play like everyone else, but the negativity is just crazy
Games break they get fixed, It's not the end of the world
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#86 Aug 25 2013 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
I'm not white knighting SE out of blind faith in the company, I'm defending the server team which has likely been running for the last 36 hours on red bull and no sleep trying to get this sh*t fixed. I feel sorry for them.


I wouldn't say 'feel sorry' but I empathize with the situation they're in. Both ends of the stick, players and company, are getting the short end on this gambit, but SE will suffer far worse in the long haul over the hiccups the past two days.
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#87 Aug 25 2013 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ivart wrote:
Yes it's a game. A game I CONTRACTED and paid for to play starting August 23. SE has not delivered. A class action lawsuit would compensate everyone who PAID specifically for EA (like me) at the very least. You file in federal court, get the class certified and off ya go. Chances are SE will settle out of court by offering a few free months. I'm completely serious.


I would absolutely love to see that complaint. And the judge. And the trash bin when the judge rips up that complaint and ******* you all out for wasting his and everyone else's time. And if we're all lucky, the contempt of court charge for bringing something so dumb to court.

Ivart wrote:
It's question of good legal writing, not necessarily having a supporting case right on point. In defending SE's certain motion to dismiss on waiver, you win the judge's sympathy by arguing that this very large class of nice, innocent and helpless customers had a modest and quite reasonable expectation, for the limited period of the EA, that SE would deliver $30 worth of goods. Buddy, I'd love that challenge, I know I could get close enough for SE to decide it was better PR and to save legal fees to compensate for the lost EA


You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I've seen this argument in bad TV drama and horrible civil court through people who watch bad TV dramas, but never effectively in court, and never has it come close to winning anything. Ever. I'd like to know which state you passed the BAR in, because I've got 5 minutes, and I could use a few more.
#88 Aug 25 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
ShindaUsagi wrote:
Legacy Status for ALL PS3ers!!!!


Catwho wrote:
Even though this is troll bait, I'll bite. It's a good question.

How about give everyone in EA an extra three days before they start billing?


Or this. This is fine too.

My question: Why? I mean, just why? It's early access and **** happens. If this is what the entire first week is, then I can see them starting to offer up something. But even then, they don't have to. Everyone agreed to the fact that downtime can, does and will happen. Any compensation is just PR.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#89 Aug 25 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Turgis wrote:
A lot of degrees have you working hard though. A creative writing class with an insane teacher can do that. That doesn't mean you're a guru of knowledge. But I will consent that law is pretty complex, as are economics, business, accounting, finance, history, math, geology, biology, chemistry, programming, etc... (if you get the picture). Generally (GENERALLY) anyone with a degree or high level of technical expertise will understand the complexities of issues, or at least respect them if they don't fully understand them.

That doesn't people won't get mad or have a limit to which they'll then get mad. =)


I'd say a few lecture periods could easily give any reasonably intelligent person the basic gist of tort and liability, though. It's far from the most complex part of legal studies, one of the more uniform areas (in terms of across jurisdictions within the US, at least), and one of the more objective areas, largely because a LOT of case law exists and a lot of the potential hairy issues have been worked through dating back over a couple hundred years at this point. Those two facts alone make it a lot simpler than a large number of other legal concepts where many of the finer points have yet to be thoroughly ironed out by judges at various levels.

Most of the legal issues which are contentious today are so because there are rulings either being contended/considered at higher levels of the judicial system, or because they haven't even made it that far yet. That's how law really works: once legislation goes into effect, it often takes the judicial system years or even decades to figure out how it's going to work in practice. This stuff is nothing new, so when people spout off about "I'mma go sue blah for yadda yadda" without knowing what they're actually talking about, they just come off sounding silly, because the vast majority of the time a judge would just dismiss it in under 30 seconds.

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#90 Aug 25 2013 at 11:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
ShindaUsagi wrote:
Legacy Status for ALL PS3ers!!!!


Catwho wrote:
Even though this is troll bait, I'll bite. It's a good question.

How about give everyone in EA an extra three days before they start billing?


Or this. This is fine too.

My question: Why? I mean, just why? It's early access and sh*t happens. If this is what the entire first week is, then I can see them starting to offer up something. But even then, they don't have to. Everyone agreed to the fact that downtime can, does and will happen. Any compensation is just PR.


To your point, Legacy Status and it's monthly discount is also PR. They didn't have to do that.

I'm fine not being compensated. I understand these things will continue to happen to most every MMO upon their releases. BUT, if I were being truly selfish about it, EA was an advertised incentive for SE to get my money months before they could even offer me the product. In that regard, I am indeed losing something I paid for. I'm ok with it like I said. Sometimes I want to bake cookies for my IT guy and just say "Thank You" with a shoulder rub. But there is a minor complaint here. Some people are just flipping out a little too much over it.
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#91 Aug 25 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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Magilicotti wrote:
Good. Bad. Buggy. Laggy. Hard. Easy. Up. Down. Left. Right. B. A. Start.

I don't care. I'll be here, cause the game is fun to me. Not bothered by the errors and maintenance's what so ever.


Thanks for the laugh Magili!
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#92 Aug 25 2013 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
Actually, it is considered a bonus feature. Bonuses are not actually a part of the purchase price, they are incentives for a pre-order. They can be removed with no compensation whatsoever, as you are not purchasing that item. Now if you ordered at a higher price and quite literally paid for an item, you'd have a point.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#93 Aug 25 2013 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
As someone who understands the technical issues, there is a limit before patience is lost and requires compensation. Some might say that EA is free access to the game and that's just not true. Most people including myself only bothered to buy the CE version because of Early Access. The other goodies weren't worth the extra 30 bucks in my opinion. Now I should note that I'm not advocating compensation at this time. However, if this problem persists into the official launch, compensation of some sort should be provided.

Honestly this was a fair question by the OP, but it's the time table that divided people. The same people who find this thread objectionable today would probably agree if this thread was posted 2 weeks into the future. Everyone has their own limits before they expect compensation. I'm giving SE two weeks before I complain about it. I don't think these problems will last the first week of launch though. So basically we're all just blowing smoke about nothing unless you expected a perfect launch after the Beta 4 issues. I have faith in SE because this server issue is fixable, that's why they're limiting login at the moment. This is exactly how you fix an issue like this. So maybe we should just let the issue reside for now and give SE an opportunity to resolve this. Cat said it best when she pointed out that the network guys are literally working around the clock to fix this. So let's just chill for now guys.


OK, going a little off topic here, I just want to ask you something. Well, this question goes towards any 1.0 player who bought another copy of the game solely for Early Access. I guess my question is...why? You spent $30 (at minimum) just for getting into the game three days earlier. $30...that's two months worth of subscription fees. In my opinion, that's just bad business sense. I'm not knocking your decision at all, you're an adult and can make your own decisions...I just want to hear from you or another 1.0 player what's the reasoning behind the decision.

EDIT: On topic, as for compensation... I was already compensated quite nicely, considering I was one of the people who bought a faulty digital download of the CE from the PSN store. Right now, I'm sitting on a full refund, and a free downloaded CE version of ARR to boot. So...suck it? >_>

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 2:07pm by Arcari
#94 Aug 25 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Default
33 posts
Medieve, your zeal is admirable but your argument circular, anecdotal and ad hominem. How about some precedent where a contractual hold harmless agreement was enforced against a claim of reasonable commercial expectation? In my state the courts are sympathetic to screwed citizens and actually almost eager to ignore unfair contract provisions, especially where such a small amount of money is at stake. $30.00 would pay for two months' subscription, thank you very much.
#95 Aug 25 2013 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
19 posts
i concur. these posts are egregiously ad homonimin.
#96 Aug 25 2013 at 12:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ivart wrote:
Medieve, your zeal is admirable but your argument circular, anecdotal and ad hominem. How about some precedent where a contractual hold harmless agreement was enforced against a claim of reasonable commercial expectation? In my state the courts are sympathetic to screwed citizens and actually almost eager to ignore unfair contract provisions, especially where such a small amount of money is at stake. $30.00 would pay for two months' subscription, thank you very much.


Except that there's nothing unfair about such a contract provision (assuming you're referring to the one that Pawkeshup quoted). In fact, it could easily be shown to be very much the de facto standard across the industry/market in question. Further, when you say "screwed citizens" I assume you're referring to cases in which things like roof collapses due to shoddy workmanship occurred, or where someone paid for a physical item and it was not received in the condition in which they expected it, or something of that nature.

But hey, links to relevant entered judgments are always acceptable and I'd be happy to take a peek at such a link.
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#97 Aug 25 2013 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
Ivart wrote:
Medieve, your zeal is admirable but your argument circular, anecdotal and ad hominem. How about some precedent where a contractual hold harmless agreement was enforced against a claim of reasonable commercial expectation? In my state the courts are sympathetic to screwed citizens and actually almost eager to ignore unfair contract provisions, especially where such a small amount of money is at stake. $30.00 would pay for two months' subscription, thank you very much.

Why are you still here! You should totally get on this. Start filing, Mr. Lawyer Man!
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#98 Aug 25 2013 at 12:20 PM Rating: Default
33 posts
The issue is narrow - ignore my (and others') colorful argumentative characterizations - here's the question presented: Whether a contractual hold harmless agreement can be enforced against a claim of reasonable commercial expectation. 30 minutes in Am Jur or WestLaw or your favorite research tool and you'd being writing your opposition to SE's Motion to Dismiss. And um yes I do know what I'm talking about lol. No charge.
#99 Aug 25 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Although I'm being as patient as I can, I'm beginning to wonder how this really will affect the game going forward. Considering most of us can't play, and the extra salt rub in the wound that the JP servers appear up and working. It's just an overall negative impression, considering the fragile position they are in. They've got pretty much this week or so and the gaming community microscope is on them. Obviously they wouldn't have it this way on purpose, but fixes and stability need to come NOW.

Will people actually follow through? I mean cancelling orders and moving on? Or will it be like most things these days - complain, complain, complain, become apathetic and forget about it. I mean look at the world in general - people hate Walmart, they hate Google, they hate Microsoft, they hate Gamestop, they hate Verizon and they rage and rage on the Internet about it. Then they happily go load their cart at Walmart, pull out their Verizon Android phone and Google search for the nearest Gamestop where they pick up a few games for their XBOX 360. Then they go home, go online and rage some more.

I personally think once everything is stable, people won't even care and will happily play XIV.
#100 Aug 25 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
DuskCactuar wrote:
Except that there's nothing unfair about such a contract provision (assuming you're referring to the one that Pawkeshup quoted). In fact, it could easily be shown to be very much the de facto standard across the industry/market in question. Further, when you say "screwed citizens" I assume you're referring to cases in which things like roof collapses due to shoddy workmanship occurred, or where someone paid for a physical item and it was not received in the condition in which they expected it, or something of that nature.

But hey, links to relevant entered judgments are always acceptable and I'd be happy to take a peek at such a link.



Here's Blizzard's

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/wow_tou.html

Warranty Disclaimer.


Blizzard warrants that the media containing the Game Client shall be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of 90 days from the date of your purchase of the Game. In the event that the media containing the Game proves to be defective during that time period, Blizzard will at its option (a) correct any defect, (b) provide you with a similar product of similar value, or (c) refund your money when you present Blizzard with proof of purchase of the defective media. THIS IS YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR THE EXPRESS WARRANTY SET FORTH IN THIS SECTION. THE GAME AND THE SERVICE ARE PROVIDED ON AN “AS IS,” “AS AVAILABLE” BASIS, AND BLIZZARD DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE GAME OR THE SERVICE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, THAT DEFECTS WILL BE CORRECTED, OR THAT THE GAME OR THE SERVICE ARE FREE OF VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS. BLIZZARD EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR USE, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. The entire risk arising out of the use or performance of the Game (including without limitation the Game Client and manual(s)) remains with you, the user. Some jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of implied warranties, so the above limitations may not apply to you.

It's the only mention of "Interrupted" on the page, I'm not interested more than that to see if there's a specific section for "No we don't owe you **** if the game goes down"
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#101 Aug 25 2013 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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Anyone saying anything related to legal matters has likely already signed their argument away in the ToS which I'm 100% sure wasn't read by anyone ever... Also, you've probably already spent $100 worth of your time complaining about the issue

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 2:26pm by GongJr
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