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Media sites begin bashing ARR launchFollow

#1 Aug 25 2013 at 10:44 PM Rating: Default
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http://kotaku.com/early-final-fantasy-xiv-launch-goes-surprise-badly-1198833060

This won't end well. Every time a game has a bad launch, Kotaku pummels it with bad press on their 'Disaster Watch' articles.
#2Ehllfire, Posted: Aug 25 2013 at 10:45 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Of course they are going to give negative reviews, they are all playing the game this weekend and writing their reviews. We will see a lot of bad reviews come Tuesday.
#3 Aug 25 2013 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent
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this sucks for SE. they did everything right up to P4 beta, and then they pull a Tanaka at the last minute. WHY!!?!!

We want this game to succeed so badly, and one indiscretion to release early screwed everything up.
#4 Aug 25 2013 at 10:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Who takes kotaku seriously anyways? Thats like going to p4rgaming for news
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#5 Aug 25 2013 at 10:48 PM Rating: Default
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#6 Aug 25 2013 at 10:49 PM Rating: Default
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celstarshop wrote:
this sucks for SE. they did everything right up to P4 beta, and then they pull a Tanaka at the last minute. WHY!!?!!

We want this game to succeed so badly, and one indiscretion to release early screwed everything up.


Because they are rushing things and didnt give enough time between beta and launch to fix things.. And In my opinion it is due to being broke and not having enough money and resources to pull this game off.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:50am by Nashred
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#7 Aug 25 2013 at 10:49 PM Rating: Default
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crazy0taku wrote:
Who takes kotaku seriously anyways? Thats like going to p4rgaming for news

Actually Kotaku is pretty major
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#8 Aug 25 2013 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Neither of those reviews is bad. Both say this is par for the course.

The big question is, will the game be catastrophe-free by Tuesday?
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#9 Aug 25 2013 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Its a little misleading to call it a bad launch when it hasn't officially launched yet but yea the early access could have gone smoother but they didn't. I have yet to see anything that FFXIV has done so far that hasn't been a common problem for any large scale mmorpg. I would call it a bad launch if the actual launch of the game gets delayed. Anything other than that is common grounds for mmo launches.
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#10 Aug 25 2013 at 10:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ehllfire wrote:
crazy0taku wrote:
Who takes kotaku seriously anyways? Thats like going to p4rgaming for news

Actually Kotaku is pretty major

When kotaku first came out it had a decent reputation....but if you ask around now most people will tell you how bias and opinionated they have become.
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#11 Aug 25 2013 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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crazy0taku wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
crazy0taku wrote:
Who takes kotaku seriously anyways? Thats like going to p4rgaming for news

Actually Kotaku is pretty major

When kotaku first came out it had a decent reputation....but if you ask around now most people will tell you how bias and opinionated they have become.


I agree but they still get a lot of hits. So it's not good if they prey on ARR's bad launch.

When Sim City had a bad launch, they wrote (no exaggeration) about 25 articles in 2 days bashing it.
#12 Aug 25 2013 at 10:53 PM Rating: Default
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crazy0taku wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
crazy0taku wrote:
Who takes kotaku seriously anyways? Thats like going to p4rgaming for news

Actually Kotaku is pretty major

When kotaku first came out it had a decent reputation....but if you ask around now most people will tell you how bias and opinionated they have become.

EVERY site is biased. A reviewer is always biased.
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#13 Aug 25 2013 at 10:54 PM Rating: Default
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http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/24/the-mog-log-error-3102-please-try-to-read-this-column-at-a-lat/

Oh yea we are paying now to beta test.
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#14 Aug 25 2013 at 10:56 PM Rating: Good
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Ehllfire wrote:
crazy0taku wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
crazy0taku wrote:
Who takes kotaku seriously anyways? Thats like going to p4rgaming for news

Actually Kotaku is pretty major

When kotaku first came out it had a decent reputation....but if you ask around now most people will tell you how bias and opinionated they have become.

EVERY site is biased. A reviewer is always biased.

Not every site is biased...once a blog/site/reviewer starts getting corporate sponsorship....well that's the end of any objective reporting.

edit: was thinking the right word but typed the complete opposite. should probably get some sleep

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 1:04am by crazy0taku
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#15 Aug 25 2013 at 10:56 PM Rating: Default
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In fairness that's not a review
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#16 Aug 25 2013 at 10:56 PM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
Neither of those reviews is bad. Both say this is par for the course.

The big question is, will the game be catastrophe-free by Tuesday?


No support is so far behind they cant possibly fix all the issues by midnight tomorrow.

But then again how do you fix them when you are closed.. Why during a period like this are they closed.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:57am by Nashred
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#17 Aug 25 2013 at 10:57 PM Rating: Default
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crazy0taku wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
crazy0taku wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
crazy0taku wrote:
Who takes kotaku seriously anyways? Thats like going to p4rgaming for news

Actually Kotaku is pretty major

When kotaku first came out it had a decent reputation....but if you ask around now most people will tell you how bias and opinionated they have become.

EVERY site is biased. A reviewer is always biased.

Not every site is biased...once a blog/site/reviewer starts getting corporate sponsorship....well that's the end of any subjective reporting.

I highlighted that, subjective means exposed to ones personal opinion and bias
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#18 Aug 25 2013 at 10:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Neither of those reviews is bad. Both say this is par for the course.

The big question is, will the game be catastrophe-free by Tuesday?

Well... MMORPG.com has been streaming since the early access pretty much started. The fact that the only thing keeping them streaming is that they rolled on JP servers is a downer. IGN is supposed to have some exclusive stream going tomorrow as well. Will SE ask them to create a character on a JP server too?

The video in the Kotaku report is what I imagine just about anyone trying to play is experiencing right now Smiley: mad
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#19 Aug 25 2013 at 10:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ehllfire wrote:
crazy0taku wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
crazy0taku wrote:
Ehllfire wrote:
crazy0taku wrote:
Who takes kotaku seriously anyways? Thats like going to p4rgaming for news

Actually Kotaku is pretty major

When kotaku first came out it had a decent reputation....but if you ask around now most people will tell you how bias and opinionated they have become.

EVERY site is biased. A reviewer is always biased.

Not every site is biased...once a blog/site/reviewer starts getting corporate sponsorship....well that's the end of any subjective reporting.

I highlighted that, subjective means exposed to ones personal opinion and bias

sorry im pretty tired right now..i meant objective
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#20 Aug 25 2013 at 11:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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What I am noticing Is a lot people defending the game which us a good thing. Here's hoping stuff gets fixed soon, they have a great game here and it would be a shame that it didn't get the recognition it deserves.
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#21 Aug 25 2013 at 11:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, at least most of the replies are POSITIVE.
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#22 Aug 25 2013 at 11:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Early Access isn't Launch....
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#23 Aug 25 2013 at 11:03 PM Rating: Default
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Demonadrastos wrote:
Early Access isn't Launch....

Yes it is.
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#24 Aug 25 2013 at 11:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
The video in the Kotaku report is what I imagine just about anyone trying to play is experiencing right now Smiley: mad


Not me.

Pre-purchased yesterday, got my code, signed up after creating a new SE account (my old one was from FFXI and in the wrong region to register my code), downloaded the client in about 2.5 hours. Picked a server (Tiamat) after doing some research on Oceania, logged in, played for 4 hours straight, went to bed.

Not a single problem apart from the minor account issue. I'm assuming the server I've picked is handling the load quite well.

From where I sit at the moment a smooth launch day seems like a perfectly feasible scenario.


Edited, Aug 26th 2013 5:05am by blowfin
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#25Killua125, Posted: Aug 25 2013 at 11:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't get why people make these posts.
#26 Aug 25 2013 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
Ehllfire wrote:
Demonadrastos wrote:
Early Access isn't Launch....

Yes it is.


Early access is "Pre-launch". The actual "Launch" (pronoun) is Tuesday August 27th, 2013. Troll smarter, not harder.
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#27 Aug 25 2013 at 11:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes it is.


No, it's not.

Think of early launch like a "preview" show at a theater.

The preview is basically the first real show of the run. It's no longer rehearsal... it's the actual show. However, tickets to the preview are usually free or deeply discounted, with many of those in attendance being friends and family of the cast and crew. The whole point of the preview is to run through the show and make sure everything works properly, and to make sure everyone does their parts. Mistakes are common in previews.

Beta is like rehearsal. We're testing different components of the game at different times.

Early release is like the preview. We get the full game a bit early, and that gives the development team one last chance to see everything working as if the game were fully launched.

Launch is like, well, the launch of the actual shows, when mistakes are no longer just par for the course.

Tuesday is launch day; SE has until then to iron out these issues. After that, the legitimate trolling can begin in earnest.
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#28 Aug 25 2013 at 11:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Killua125 wrote:
blowfin wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
The video in the Kotaku report is what I imagine just about anyone trying to play is experiencing right now Smiley: mad


Not me.

Pre-purchased yesterday, got my code, signed up after creating a new SE account (my old one was from FFXI and in the wrong region to register my code), downloaded the client in about 2.5 hours. Picked a server (Tiamat) after doing some research on Oceania, logged in, played for 4 hours straight, went to bed.

Not a single problem apart from the minor account issue. I'm assuming the server I've picked is handling the load quite well.

From where I sit at the moment a smooth launch day seems like a perfectly feasible scenario.


Edited, Aug 26th 2013 5:05am by blowfin


I don't get why people make these posts.

What are we supposed to say. "Ohhhh, Ok. 95% of the user population is having problems but since you're not, everything's okay"?


People?! That would be me!

You're not supposed to say anything, i'm really just trying to show that it's not all doom and gloom out there. The majority of people who are in game and enjoying themselves don't have a reason to come on forums and complain, you hear from the vocal upset crowd most of the time on here (*opinion developed from being signed up on here for nearly a decade*).

Being on a JP server will have it's downsides in the long term though... Let me have my time in the sunSmiley: lol
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#29 Aug 25 2013 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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Just preemptively ban Ehllfire. We all know that's where this is headed.

Oh, and it's 2013. Kotaku is irrelevant.
#30 Aug 25 2013 at 11:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wow, 95% of the user population is having problems? Where did they get that static from eh? I played for around 8 hours today without a problem until maint.
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#31 Aug 25 2013 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
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BrokenFox wrote:
Just preemptively ban Ehllfire. We all know that's where this is headed.

Oh, and it's 2013. Kotaku is irrelevant.


If that were so, then nobody would read them, which is demonstrably not the case.

Anyone who thought the media sites weren't going to report the fiasco this weekend has been were fooling themselves. Most of them though, are at least reporting that this is relatively normal for an MMO launch. The thing to watch will be what happens from here.
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#32 Aug 25 2013 at 11:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
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Yes it is.

Think of early launch like a "preview" show at a theater.


I always treat Early access as a small extension to open beta Smiley: nod
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#33 Aug 25 2013 at 11:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
Just preemptively ban Ehllfire. We all know that's where this is headed.

Oh, and it's 2013. Kotaku is irrelevant.


If that were so, then nobody would read them, which is demonstrably not the case.

Anyone who thought the media sites weren't going to report the fiasco this weekend has been were fooling themselves. Most of them though, are at least reporting that this is relatively normal for an MMO launch. The thing to watch will be what happens from here.


Sure, people read it. But I don't think they're taken very seriously anymore. It's pretty well known at this point that the Kotaku reporters are a**holes. They have about as much credibility as the Enquirer or any other trashy tabloid magazine.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 1:31am by BrokenFox
#34 Aug 25 2013 at 11:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
Just preemptively ban Ehllfire. We all know that's where this is headed.

Oh, and it's 2013. Kotaku is irrelevant.


If that were so, then nobody would read them, which is demonstrably not the case.


Yes, but on the same token, Kotaku loves broadcasting any hot-button topic they find for whatever reason they desire. What they want is clicks, not good journalism.

Again, launch day woes are typical. Media covering launch day woes to give themselves free traffic too, is typical.
#35 Aug 25 2013 at 11:34 PM Rating: Good
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Demonadrastos wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Yes it is.

Think of early launch like a "preview" show at a theater.


I always treat Early access as a small extension to open beta Smiley: nod


This. Early access is launch? Hah, good one.
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#36 Aug 25 2013 at 11:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:

Yes, but on the same token, Kotaku loves broadcasting any hot-button topic they find for whatever reason they desire. What they want is clicks, not good journalism.

Again, launch day woes are typical. Media covering launch day woes to give themselves free traffic too, is typical.


Newspapers frame headlines to make people buy them. Journalism has taken a back seat to marketing for nearly a century now.

I'm not saying that Kotaku is the one and only source for all news, but whether they're respected or not, they're read. And the more people reading about problems, the worse the problems seem. And these problems don't need any help seeming bad.
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#37 Aug 25 2013 at 11:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Yes it is.


No, it's not.

Think of early launch like a "preview" show at a theater.

The preview is basically the first real show of the run. It's no longer rehearsal... it's the actual show. However, tickets to the preview are usually free or deeply discounted, with many of those in attendance being friends and family of the cast and crew. The whole point of the preview is to run through the show and make sure everything works properly, and to make sure everyone does their parts. Mistakes are common in previews.

Beta is like rehearsal. We're testing different components of the game at different times.

Early release is like the preview. We get the full game a bit early, and that gives the development team one last chance to see everything working as if the game were fully launched.

Launch is like, well, the launch of the actual shows, when mistakes are no longer just par for the course.

Tuesday is launch day; SE has until then to iron out these issues. After that, the legitimate trolling can begin in earnest.


The preview is open beta Thayos. Been like that for ages and it's come to be standard in every beta I've participated in, read or heard about since I started keeping up back in the FFXI days. Early access is a soft launch yes, but it's still supposed to be as solid as release.

RIFT did this, TERA(though this was kinda a different beast) did this and GW2 was no different. All of them had smoother launches and smoother testing phases. They all had bumps and they all took a beating on their respective forums when servers were down for maintenance, but not to this magnitude and not nearly this close to launch. They didn't take as long to address or recognize the problems and attend to them. I don't recall any of them springing leaks elsewhere when they tried to plug the holes either.

I'm not trying to say that every MMO that came before it was better than XIV, but they set standards for what to expect. When you're taking on a large project like this all that matters is being prepared and laying out some goals. I don't think SE really put this part together well. There are an arbitrary number of servers that clearly aren't based on the expected or even anticipated number of users and the testing phases were predetermined lengths, which says to me that they weren't results based.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 2:00am by FilthMcNasty
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#38 Aug 26 2013 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think Early access should be a place to "fix issues" that's what beta is for.

And it's way to fast to start cutting SE some slack, they have failed hard in the past, and if we all want ARR to be a successful, fun game where you don't have to resort to Google every time something with the game or the account is wrong because the Customer service is less than useless, this is the time to push hard and complain, take a look at Riot and Blizzard those companies now how to handle their games and player base and that is the standard by which we should be judging SE

Therefore if you promise an Early access of 72 hours and have to insert an 8 hours maintenance, it says your preparation was not enough, and "not enough" it's a problem. Time to fix the problem SE.
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#39 Aug 26 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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BrokenFox wrote:
Just preemptively ban Ehllfire. We all know that's where this is headed.

Oh, and it's 2013. Kotaku is irrelevant.

Everyone has a right to voice their opinion. Even if it's blatantly wrong.

Off-Topic: Oh hey I'm a guru now... I guess you can't become a guru until you hit 100+ posts... who knew.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 11:47am by Lollerfell
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#40 Aug 26 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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#41 Aug 26 2013 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure that "bashing" is the right word there. I didn't read anything that remotely resembled "bashing". I thought all the articles linked were pretty spot on. Would you say that launch is going smoothly? Are you telling me you're excited/optimistic to see what happens when the floodgates open tomorrow?
#42 Aug 26 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Beta is the place to fix mistakes, yes. But the preview show is the last chance to discover any unforeseen mistakes, and to make sure all of your beta (rehearsal) adjustments actually work.

The ideal preview is indistinguishable from an actual show. That isn't always the case, though... But that is why shows have previews.
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#43 Aug 26 2013 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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http://kotaku.com/dont-worry-weve-got-final-fantasy-xiv-covered-well-1200681941 He made another article about the game today. And he actually had some nice things to say about it. He also mentioned a full review is coming but the game is better than 1.0 a lot better as he pointed out.

So all in all even if I believe kotaku to be a worthless site that their reviewers don't know how to make a proper review without attacking someone or something he is giving some good publicity for the game. Let's just hope SE doesn't burn itself with the server issues.
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#44 Aug 26 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Yes it is.


No, it's not.

Think of early launch like a "preview" show at a theater.

The preview is basically the first real show of the run. It's no longer rehearsal... it's the actual show. However, tickets to the preview are usually free or deeply discounted, with many of those in attendance being friends and family of the cast and crew. The whole point of the preview is to run through the show and make sure everything works properly, and to make sure everyone does their parts. Mistakes are common in previews.

Beta is like rehearsal. We're testing different components of the game at different times.

Early release is like the preview. We get the full game a bit early, and that gives the development team one last chance to see everything working as if the game were fully launched.

Launch is like, well, the launch of the actual shows, when mistakes are no longer just par for the course.

Tuesday is launch day; SE has until then to iron out these issues. After that, the legitimate trolling can begin in earnest.

It's semantics either way but I think the preview is open beta.

Ever hear near the end of a movie trailer something along the lines of... "Opening in select theaters Wednesday, opening everywhere Friday." or something that effect?

Early Access is the "select theaters". The Movie is out there on Wednesday. It's just that only a certain group have met the criteria to be able to view it then. Everyone else must wait the extra couple days or whatever.

I know you are talking about a play type theater but I am trying to say that it isn't supposed to be like that. It is supposed to be like a film type theater at this point. It's not people just hanging out getting to see the first performance. If that were the case it wouldn't have been part of the preorder, it would have been something given to beta testers. Once it became part of the preorder it became the movie theater deal.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:34pm by MrTalos
#45 Aug 26 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Early access is not a time to discover problems. It is a bonus for those that pre ordered and is the release of the game for those people who pre ordered.
When the official release starts and there is still problems what the next excuse going to be.. Oh wait you still are not paying your monthly subscription so it ok, you have no reason to complain...

I wish i had something positive to say but two weekends in a row I cant play it hard to come up with something.



Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:31pm by Nashred
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#46 Aug 26 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Default
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Teravibe wrote:
http://kotaku.com/dont-worry-weve-got-final-fantasy-xiv-covered-well-1200681941 He made another article about the game today. And he actually had some nice things to say about it. He also mentioned a full review is coming but the game is better than 1.0 a lot better as he pointed out.

So all in all even if I believe kotaku to be a worthless site that their reviewers don't know how to make a proper review without attacking someone or something he is giving some good publicity for the game. Let's just hope SE doesn't burn itself with the server issues.


That's a different author (just pointing it out because you said he made another article, it's two different people).

As the commenters pointed out, the reason he's not bashing it is because he's on a Japanese server. I wouldn't be surprised if all reviewers were directed to JP servers.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:33pm by Killua125
#47 Aug 26 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well you are right I stand corrected but that doesn't matter one bit. They are both writing for kotaku.
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#48 Aug 26 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Early access is not a time to discover problems.


But every single MMO discovers problems when everything goes live... that's why early access is such a smart move by developers. If all goes well, then everyone is happy. If things start breaking, then, hopefully, damaged can be minimized by the time the game is released to the masses.

That's just what happens.

Now, all of that said, I'm very clear in my beliefs that launch is launch is launch... tomorrow is launch.

I'm willing to give SE a pass right now, because we're still in the preview.. but tomorrow, a lot of things that are tolerable now will become something entirely different.
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#49 Aug 26 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Teravibe wrote:
http://kotaku.com/dont-worry-weve-got-final-fantasy-xiv-covered-well-1200681941 He made another article about the game today. And he actually had some nice things to say about it. He also mentioned a full review is coming but the game is better than 1.0 a lot better as he pointed out.

So all in all even if I believe kotaku to be a worthless site that their reviewers don't know how to make a proper review without attacking someone or something he is giving some good publicity for the game. Let's just hope SE doesn't burn itself with the server issues.


That's a different author (just pointing it out because you said he made another article, it's two different people).

As the commenters pointed out, the reason he's not bashing it is because he's on a Japanese server. I wouldn't be surprised if all reviewers were directed to JP servers.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:33pm by Killua125



So the only reason he isn't saying bad things is that? The chance he likes playing it because it's a good game never crossed your mind?

Also he doesn't have to bash it. You can comment on the bad beginning with the servers but you also need to talk for the actual game as well.


Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:38pm by Teravibe
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Grim Reaperz (Ultros server)
#50 Aug 26 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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589 posts
Killua125 wrote:
http://kotaku.com/early-final-fantasy-xiv-launch-goes-surprise-badly-1198833060

This won't end well. Every time a game has a bad launch, Kotaku pummels it with bad press on their 'Disaster Watch' articles.


Did you just pull a Dr. Who? Its still Monday on the east coast.
#51 Aug 26 2013 at 10:40 AM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Early access is not a time to discover problems.


But every single MMO discovers problems when everything goes live... that's why early access is such a smart move by developers. If all goes well, then everyone is happy. If things start breaking, then, hopefully, damaged can be minimized by the time the game is released to the masses.

That's just what happens.

Now, all of that said, I'm very clear in my beliefs that launch is launch is launch... tomorrow is launch.

I'm willing to give SE a pass right now, because we're still in the preview.. but tomorrow, a lot of things that are tolerable now will become something entirely different.


But its not preview for me or Tesee because we cant even get on.. We deserve a preview as much as any we ordered months ago. I get a error and Tesee service account is messed up.

There always going to be problems of coarse even through out the games life but these are not a minor little glitch. These are major problems that are affecting allot of players. Just because other mmos have issues doesn't make it ok.

I think the bad part is SE really does not seem to care. The whole service issue and no one getting back to even say yea we got your issue we will get back to you. Just nothing. I call up and I get our regular business hours are blah this to blah that. It wont be fixed by launch. I really want to play this game but I know I wont be able too for a long time because this wont be fixed by the midnight launch tonight. Problem is the only thing I can do to show my displeasure for being treated like I dont matter is complain like other till SE gets the point or not buy the game. My problem is I only have several hours to cancel it. And it is 140.00 (60 + 80) not a cheap game by any means. Iwant to know they will fix this, is Tesee going to get her account back or does she start from zero and how do we do that because now here psn is linked to the wrong service account because they screwed up. she is on a different world than me now because her user id is still on ultros. I dont want to play with out her. Why should she also loose her pre order bonuses how is that fare? Some people are being royal messed over hear and all we get is shut up you have no right to complain... Am i asking for something no special no, I just want to know if they will fix Tesee problems period ever. Before I run out and buy this game and I can get that from SE.

This goes way beyond just the server issues that everyone seems to focus on.









Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:49pm by Nashred

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:50pm by Nashred

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:53pm by Nashred
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