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#1 Aug 26 2013 at 6:55 AM Rating: Decent
Is it just me or does Flash kinda suck? Every group I get into I am constantly being told to cast flash, but what people are not realizing is that I am spamming it, it just SUCKS.
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#2 Aug 26 2013 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think it sucks so long as your dps realize what it is....and is not. It is not a magic aoe aggro magnet that forever makes focus fire unnecessary (which is the problem I've encountered a couple times already). Easy way to get attention, but it won't stand up to a Lancer who decides to attack the target I'm NOT on. I'm looking at you random lancer in Sastasha!
#3 Aug 28 2013 at 1:29 AM Rating: Good
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I agree that its a great move if your party understands it. There needs to be a bit more organization. Its more crowd control in a way. Its keeps mobs on you but not if DD is going nut balls on the target your focused on.
#4 Aug 29 2013 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't flash supposed to be a one-per-battle-move?

It start your enmity generation on all mobs, then you can keep increasing it with Fast Blade > Savage Blade, there is no reason (other than AoE moves) for the rest of your party to hit a different mob is there?

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#5 Aug 29 2013 at 8:38 PM Rating: Good
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kenage wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't flash supposed to be a one-per-battle-move?

It start your enmity generation on all mobs, then you can keep increasing it with Fast Blade > Savage Blade, there is no reason (other than AoE moves) for the rest of your party to hit a different mob is there?

Ken


Healers will build hate with their cures. Depending on group size, I will pop Flash 2 or 3 times during a fight, sometimes more if it is a larger group, or if people aren't staying on target.
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#6 Aug 30 2013 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
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WiseDonkey wrote:
kenage wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't flash supposed to be a one-per-battle-move?

It start your enmity generation on all mobs, then you can keep increasing it with Fast Blade > Savage Blade, there is no reason (other than AoE moves) for the rest of your party to hit a different mob is there?

Ken


Healers will build hate with their cures. Depending on group size, I will pop Flash 2 or 3 times during a fight, sometimes more if it is a larger group, or if people aren't staying on target.


I do the same. I usually Flash when mobs come into range, but only ever use it when adds pop in the middle of boss fights. GLA's are good at building one-on-one enmity through Savage Blade combo. This is why it's annoying when people fight other targets different from your own. But Flahs is also good for mitigating aggro for the Healer.
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#7 Sep 01 2013 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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just to be safe, i would mark the primary target, shield lob, flash, then rotate through all the targets instead or rocusing on only 1 monster, and then pop another fladh when im done cycling through all of them. as a healer and a tank, i find this safer, as sometimes dps make mistakes and healers may toss a huge cure etc
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#8 Sep 03 2013 at 12:38 AM Rating: Good
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I use it at the start, and pay attention to the mob's stats. Once flash wears I will use it again, but careful they build immunity flash fast. I can do pretty good in grabbing hate with multiple mobs, provoke, shield lob. I can have 3-4 mobs on me at once and control hate pretty good. Hyperion server.
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#9 Sep 03 2013 at 8:25 PM Rating: Good
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You definitely want to use it more than once a fight. Just use it periodically along with your other moves and it'll help you keep hate. And no, I don't think it sucks at all. In fact, I think it's one of the most important abilities we have.
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#10 Sep 04 2013 at 1:52 AM Rating: Decent
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kenage wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't flash supposed to be a one-per-battle-move?

It start your enmity generation on all mobs, then you can keep increasing it with Fast Blade > Savage Blade, there is no reason (other than AoE moves) for the rest of your party to hit a different mob is there?

Ken

While the description on Savage Blade (and Rage of Halone) are indeed: Increases Enmity. That enmity isnt increased on yourself, or even on the surrounding targets. It just increases enmity on the monster you are hitting with it. Nothing more, nothing less.

So in the case of flashing 3 monsters, and just hitting the center one with Fast > Savage > Halone isnt going to keep hate on any of them other than the one you're currently stabbing with your sword.

You will need to be casting flash continuously (especially with archers doing their AoE attacks) if you want to keep hate on all of your targets. Even more so when you're being cured heavily.

It becomes a constant tug-of-war between flashing, Savage blade for more enmity, and alternating with Riot Blade if flash drained your MP pool. It's a lot more than one would imagine.
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#11 Sep 04 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Default
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I am level 24 (or something) but I use a slightly different strategy. And Gladis just plain struggle with AE aggro, especially if you play on PS3 with the horrible horrible targeting they have. I am sure that as I get more comfortable with targeting through practice it will get easier to implement all of this, but as of right now its sketchy if I accomplish my goals during a 4-5 mob encounter. For a 2 mob encounter or sometimes 3 if I feel my group is on its game, this looks very different. Remember, who cares how much damage you are doing? Your #1 goal is keeping aggro from your dps and healer. Obviously you will be throwing in Ramparts and cross-class dmg mitigations throughout.

1 - Shield Lob > to pull, I will usually try to smack the mob that I want killed first (one of the weaker ones of the group) - I will mark this if I am not in a hurry or if my group is not so stellar.
2 - Flash > Quick aggro on everything, but this is far from the last time I use flash.
3 - Switch Targets to Strongest Mob - Provoke > You've probably gotten a heal at this point, or someone's done an AE, or something. This pops you to the top of the list for this guy, meaning you are above everyone else by at least 1 unit of hate.
3 - Flash > MOAR Enmity!
4 - Switch back to the Mob I want dead First - Fast Blade > Set myself up for a Savage or a Riot Blade.
5 - Flash > Remember this is for those 3-5 mob situations where aggro might be flying around like crazy, you might be getting close to losing aggro on the primary...so:
6 - Riot Blade > Why not Savage? You are going to need MP in this fight, because you are going to need to throw Flash around a bunch.
7 - Flash
8 - Fast Blade
9 - Flash
10 - Riot Blade > That little rotation should allow you to keep MP up, hold AE aggro, and lay some extra enmity on the main target through the dmg of Fast/Riot.

Also, throw in some Provokes on the big guy from time to time, or on whatever target you feel might be thinking about making a snack of your best bud (your healer). The only time I lose aggro with this is to an archer who is higher level than me laying down a disgusting string of crits on the main target, or if someone is laying into an add I'm not on hard. In that case, I pop my provoke as mentioned above on that target, and follow it up with a flash/fast/flash/riot combo.

They really did not make the dungeon crawls easy for us gladis, it is really a challenge to hold aggro, especially over those **** Topaz pets and the OPed archers. Anyways, this is just something that has worked for me up to level 24 or so - the highest dungeon I've done is Halatali. I guess what I'm trying to say is Flash is awesome if you use it a lot in those situations. One flash per fight is not going to hold aggro over a well-equipped lancer who is off target, or a healer who over-heals you. Hope this helps, please someone tell me if I'm stupid and wrong.

Edited, Sep 4th 2013 10:37am by MidnightPyre

Edited, Sep 4th 2013 10:38am by MidnightPyre

Edited, Sep 4th 2013 10:42am by MidnightPyre
#12 Sep 04 2013 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent
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MidnightPyre wrote:
I am level 24 (or something) but I use a slightly different strategy. And Gladis just plain struggle with AE aggro, especially if you play on PS3 with the horrible horrible targeting they have. I am sure that as I get more comfortable with targeting through practice it will get easier to implement all of this, but as of right now its sketchy if I accomplish my goals during a 4-5 mob encounter. For a 2 mob encounter or sometimes 3 if I feel my group is on its game, this looks very different. Remember, who cares how much damage you are doing? Your #1 goal is keeping aggro from your dps and healer. Obviously you will be throwing in Ramparts and cross-class dmg mitigations throughout.

1 - Shield Lob > to pull, I will usually try to smack the mob that I want killed first (one of the weaker ones of the group) - I will mark this if I am not in a hurry or if my group is not so stellar.
2 - Flash > Quick aggro on everything, but this is far from the last time I use flash.
3 - Switch Targets to Strongest Mob - Provoke > You've probably gotten a heal at this point, or someone's done an AE, or something. This pops you to the top of the list for this guy, meaning you are above everyone else by at least 1 unit of hate.
3 - Flash > MOAR Enmity!
4 - Switch back to the Mob I want dead First - Fast Blade > Set myself up for a Savage or a Riot Blade.
5 - Flash > Remember this is for those 3-5 mob situations where aggro might be flying around like crazy, you might be getting close to losing aggro on the primary...so:
6 - Riot Blade > Why not Savage? You are going to need MP in this fight, because you are going to need to throw Flash around a bunch.
7 - Flash
8 - Fast Blade
9 - Flash
10 - Riot Blade > That little rotation should allow you to keep MP up, hold AE aggro, and lay some extra enmity on the main target through the dmg of Fast/Riot.

Also, throw in some Provokes on the big guy from time to time, or on whatever target you feel might be thinking about making a snack of your best bud (your healer). The only time I lose aggro with this is to an archer who is higher level than me laying down a disgusting string of crits on the main target, or if someone is laying into an add I'm not on hard. In that case, I pop my provoke as mentioned above on that target, and follow it up with a flash/fast/flash/riot combo.

They really did not make the dungeon crawls easy for us gladis, it is really a challenge to hold aggro, especially over those **** Topaz pets and the OPed archers. Anyways, this is just something that has worked for me up to level 24 or so - the highest dungeon I've done is Halatali. I guess what I'm trying to say is Flash is awesome if you use it a lot in those situations. One flash per fight is not going to hold aggro over a well-equipped lancer who is off target, or a healer who over-heals you. Hope this helps, please someone tell me if I'm stupid and wrong.

Edited, Sep 4th 2013 10:37am by MidnightPyre

Edited, Sep 4th 2013 10:38am by MidnightPyre

Edited, Sep 4th 2013 10:42am by MidnightPyre


I don't want this to come off as, "you're doing it wrong", but more of helpful advice. You're using flash way too many times and not using savage when you should be. You shouldn't even need to cast riot blade ever really. I don't even have it on my bars except for fates so I can spam flash for aoe credit to get max reward. steps 1 and 2 are fine, but you shouldn't waste provoke so early. The healer shouldn't even need to have cast anything yet and the dps should be giving you at least 5 seconds (I know dps...I know...omg 5 seconds, but that's forever). Step 3 should be the start of 2 or 3 skill hate combo depending if you have RoH yet. Fast blade doesn't even build hate other than just what you get from the damage. You need the combo to generate your huge amounts of threat. Just tab the combo through the group, minus slept targets of course, and you shouldn't need flash more than twice most of the time. This is all of course dependent of if you have smart dps that know what /assist is. If they are each attacking different targets, then good luck to them as I usually let them(mostly mages) get beat up on till they learn /assist.
#13 Sep 06 2013 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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myric227 wrote:


I don't want this to come off as, "you're doing it wrong", but more of helpful advice. You're using flash way too many times and not using savage when you should be. You shouldn't even need to cast riot blade ever really. I don't even have it on my bars except for fates so I can spam flash for aoe credit to get max reward. steps 1 and 2 are fine, but you shouldn't waste provoke so early. The healer shouldn't even need to have cast anything yet and the dps should be giving you at least 5 seconds (I know dps...I know...omg 5 seconds, but that's forever). Step 3 should be the start of 2 or 3 skill hate combo depending if you have RoH yet. Fast blade doesn't even build hate other than just what you get from the damage. You need the combo to generate your huge amounts of threat. Just tab the combo through the group, minus slept targets of course, and you shouldn't need flash more than twice most of the time. This is all of course dependent of if you have smart dps that know what /assist is. If they are each attacking different targets, then good luck to them as I usually let them(mostly mages) get beat up on till they learn /assist.



I think you play with WAY better people than I do, lol. Point taken 100% on Provoke, I didn't really understand what it did until 1/2 through writing that. The reason I use RB instead of SB and RoH (I just got it this morning) is because I am finding that Flash is sticking my aggro just fine on the main targeted. To elaborate, let's call Flash as generating 100 Enmity (I don't know of a database that provides this value, so I am totally making things up currently), and then let's assume that the FB>SB>RoH combo yields 120 Enmity from SB and another 200 from RoH. Those are values I am guessing at after watching my extended aggro list in the bottom left corner during fights. If I cast flash 1 time for ever 1.75 other GCD abilities I use, I am generating roughly 22.85 Emnity per second per target via Flash. I am also generating hate via damage from RB and FB, and we will say that the melee dmg that I am doing is equal to 55% of the melee dmg that I would do with FB>SB>RoH.

Now, if we look at SB/RoH, its going to take me 7.5 seconds (2.5 FB, 2.5 SB, 2.5 RoH, repeat) to generate my 320 Enmity on a single target. That's 42.66 EPS on ONE target. If I need to spread that out over 3 targets, thats 14.22 EPS. Adjusting that upwards for my increased melee damage is tricky, but let's give SG and RoH the benefit of the doubt, and even though I don't think its likely, we'll say that they break even on total EPS on all mobs. (increase the # of mobs, and Flash takes the, extreme, advantage).

NOW to the crux of my argument, consistent Enmity generation that can compete with MRDs. If you are cycling through targets doing FB>SB>RoH, that means that with 3 mobs attacking your group, you are going to be leaving a single mob completely unattended for roughly 22 seconds depending on your skill speed. Let's say during that time the healer has to spam you because of a couple bad crit, the archer accidentally switches targets (or wasn't on the same one to start : D) and lays down a nasty string of crits, etc. Every second you are not attending that mob, your EPS on it is falling quickly, and the more likely it is that the mob will turn its attentions elsewhere, causing you to pop provoke, stop hitting the main target, and we all know how things can get messy from there, especially if you are level 32 grouping with level 36s. As long as your AE Flash EPS + the EPS from your FB>RB can hold aggro over the dps, this keeps a nice, even flow of Enmity on all targets, at an arguably quicker pace.

Now, would I use this strategy for an excellent group? No. Would I use it for a big boss battle? Obviously not. But in a situation where you need to rise above idiots and people who are struggling with targeting, that strategy can provide nice results.

Excuse my math and assumptions, if even if I am pretty far off (and I don't think I am), the point remains consistent. I just don't think you need to FB>SB>RoH to hold aggro over 99% of dps classes and healers, it is an unnecessarily large amount of aggro on a single target, and using it on multiple targets has serious flaws.

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#14 Sep 06 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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You shouldn't be FB > SB > RoH target cycling at all. Focus on one target unless the healer pulls something then provoke that FB > SB then go back to the previous target. Flash only needs to be used a couple of times at the start of a fight to grab all the hate.
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#15 Sep 07 2013 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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I haven't had to change my rotation much since the earlier dungeons.

My bread and butter is simply FB > SB. I Flash once mobs come into range. My strategies quickly change depending on what DDs are attacking what. It makes sense to take one down at a time otherwise you're just stretching the fight out longer, but I'm not going to go on a tangent about that.

Depending on how many monsters I'm fighting, I stick with Flash, then FB > SB. I rarely Flash more then once unless hate really gets out of control. I often will switch targets after FB, if my hate is high with my current mob, and then SB another mob where the Healer or DD needs hate taken off. After that SB, I can go back to my main target to finish him up. Don't forget that you can switch to a secondary target for just one weaponskill and it automatically sends you back to your main. I find this very helpful for not only keeping your combo going, but also watching the hate being built up by other party members.
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#16 Sep 08 2013 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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FatChocobro wrote:
Don't forget that you can switch to a secondary target for just one weaponskill and it automatically sends you back to your main. I find this very helpful for not only keeping your combo going, but also watching the hate being built up by other party members.


How do you do that? Sounds very useful.
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#17 Sep 09 2013 at 7:38 AM Rating: Decent
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WiseDonkey wrote:
FatChocobro wrote:
Don't forget that you can switch to a secondary target for just one weaponskill and it automatically sends you back to your main. I find this very helpful for not only keeping your combo going, but also watching the hate being built up by other party members.


How do you do that? Sounds very useful.


Just hit fast blade on your primary target, then switch to an other target and hit savage blade. I've had instances where I will FB the main target, SB the secondary, then RoH the tertiary target if the fight is lasting a while and healer enmity starts to grow.

And man, I don't know who you guys play with, but I often have to spam flash at the beginning of a fight - I've got healers overhealing me, Black Mages AEing immediately, Lancers going balls out with slows on my secondary target, etc. I have to remain vigilant and check hate on each target about 10 seconds into a fight. Maybe I need to group with better people, but I like the challenge : D. Its not the easy fights I came to tank for, a good tank isn't defined by being automatic on routine fights, they are defined by overcoming an overwhelming situation. Thankfully, with the PLD skills, we are set up to do that! Healing yourself as a tank rocks!
#18 Oct 02 2013 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I use shield lob, flash and if need be I will flash between hits in my emnity combo since it doesn't interrupt your 1-2-3 rotation. I also add in Fracture (MRD) on other targets (unless target #1 has large enough health pool then I hit it too), if you can get a dot on before a CC is applied then it won't break the CC.

Shield Lob
Flash
Fast
Flash
Savage
(Optional Flash)
Rage
Fast
Savage
Rage
Fracture
Fracture
Flash
Fast
Savage
Rage
etc.

I usually throw in a flash between mobs or after every other 1-2-3 combo and after spreading fracture to other adds just to make sure I stay above the healer and any CC classes.

I have found pretty much zero need use for Riot Blade.
#19 Oct 02 2013 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Flash also provides Blind debuff which is overlooked by many.
#20 Oct 03 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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KingoGoodbomber wrote:
I use shield lob, flash and if need be I will flash between hits in my emnity combo since it doesn't interrupt your 1-2-3 rotation. I also add in Fracture (MRD) on other targets (unless target #1 has large enough health pool then I hit it too), if you can get a dot on before a CC is applied then it won't break the CC.

I have found pretty much zero need use for Riot Blade.


1 - You have enough Cross-Class room to use Fracture? What's your set up?
2 - What level are you? I use riot blade quite often to make AK runs go faster, etc.
#21Queen EmmanuellaLima, Posted: Oct 19 2013 at 6:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) On the site and on the game it says flash only does enmity. I can see its a level 20 passive that gives it.
#22 Aug 16 2014 at 7:51 AM Rating: Good
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Listen, a lot of people are on here, talking about how to compensate for DPS pulling hate off of you when you spam flash. Here's what I say:

Stop being such a nice guy!

Step 1: Tell the Healer not to heal the DPS unless they attack what you attack. This works for melee DPS such as Lancer/Dragoon and Pugalist/Monk. If heals doesn't heal them, they'll be more inclined to fight what you're fighting, or they'll die. Most of the time, if these guys are pulling threat on you, it's because they're deliberately attacking the wrong target.

Step 2: Make sure your THM/BLMs keep their casts in check. Flare spam will create more threat than Flash Spam, so you have to break up your combos on the other mobs. Even then, they have a very simple job when they repeatedly spam Flare or AoE, and usually no concept of how threat creation works, or they're just being jerks and don't care. Unfortunately you don't get that luxury. So if you have to, let them get their **** beat until reality sets in.


Step 3: Other ranged attackers are actually really easy to deal with. Just don't be afraid to ask a Bard for help when you need MP or TP (They should be keeping an eye on it, but lets face it, most don't). They can do more than damage. Bards can be your favorite ally when you're working double-time to hold hate. Summoners can be really cool too. They can throw a backup cure if need be, though you can't rely on them as healers, and can swiftcast/rez.

If you played FFXI, remember a good damage dealer was able to walk as close to the hate line as possible without stepping over it. It wasn't pulling hate off the tank. So don't be afraid to let your DPS get banged up a little if they're not working with you. Sometimes you need to remind them the hard way.



Edited, Aug 17th 2014 8:05am by ShillelaghNSheild
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