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Well they clarifiedFollow

#1 Aug 28 2013 at 7:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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"Thank you very much for playing FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn.

We would like to make a clarification regarding our previous announcement “Regarding Congestion in Japan Data Center Worlds (Aug. 27)” in which we stated that we are preparing to increase the capacity of our data centers.

The first half of the announcement regarding login and character creation restrictions was directed towards our players who would be playing during peak hours in Japan data center Worlds.

However, the second half of the announcement regarding increasing the capacity of our data centers was meant to also encompass North American and European data center Worlds and not just be limited to Japan data center Worlds.

We deeply apologize for causing concern amongst the North American and European community due to our lack of clarity. Capacity will be increased for data centers in all regions.

Once again, thank you for your understanding and cooperation to help us welcome more players to the game."


Not sure if this has been posted yet. (Sorry if it has) I know there was some concern raised by their previous post concerning this. So when can we expect a timeline? ;)
#2 Aug 28 2013 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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Nevermind they answered it on their Facebook page. Looks like new servers possibly next week? =D


"nnouncing Server Enhancements and the Temporary Suspension of Digital Download Sales

We would like to thank you for your continued support of FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn.

Since the start of early access on Saturday, August 24th, an enormous amount of users have been logging in to the game. As such, the number of users logging in has been increasing at a rate that is much higher than what we had originally anticipated. To ensure that we maintain a quality level of service for everyone, we have been setting restrictions on both the creation of characters as well as adjusting the number of users that are able to log in. We are well aware that these restrictions are a source of frustration for our users who are waiting to play.

To address this matter, we are currently working on introducing new Worlds and enhancing the performance of the login and match making processes on both the Japanese and North American & European data centers. This operation is expected to be completed at the beginning of next week.

Until this operation is complete, we would like to prioritize the quality of service for those who have already purchased the game. Therefore, we are temporarily suspending the sale of the digital download versions of FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn. Once the operation has been completed, the sale of the digital download version will resume.

While the operation is in progress, we will continue to apply restrictions on both the creation of characters and the ability to log into the game. Throughout this time, we will be offering constant updates on the progress of the operation.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this causes our users and humbly request your understanding."
#3 Aug 28 2013 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
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Wow, well done. They made the right call and prioritized the experiences of everyone who already had the game over a quick buck.
#4Mopdaddy, Posted: Aug 28 2013 at 7:18 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Empty apologies... Hooray.
#5 Aug 28 2013 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mopdaddy wrote:
Empty apologies... Hooray.


So adding more servers isn't enough for you?
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#6 Aug 28 2013 at 7:21 AM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Mopdaddy wrote:
Empty apologies... Hooray.


So adding more servers isn't enough for you?

I can't even get a ******* server list...
#7 Aug 28 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Default
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I'm banking that they will hold off on new servers and watch the post release population to see if there's the normal drop off that always happens.

When they start seeing that they will be able to skate by without adding additional infrastructure, which will end up being reduced/eliminated in 90-120 days anyways due to the natural attrition in an MMO.

In short, I think they will take the hit in customer experience/satisfaction to save a short term buck.

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#8 Aug 28 2013 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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vahlmyth wrote:
I'm banking that they will hold off on new servers and watch the post release population to see if there's the normal drop off that always happens.

When they start seeing that they will be able to skate by without adding additional infrastructure, which will end up being reduced/eliminated in 90-120 days anyways due to the natural attrition in an MMO.

In short, I think they will take the hit in customer experience/satisfaction to save a short term buck.



I'm fairly certain you can't add new worlds without adding more servers Smiley: rolleyes
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#9vahlmyth, Posted: Aug 28 2013 at 7:28 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sure you can.
#10 Aug 28 2013 at 7:34 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm really curious - does anyone have preliminary sales numbers?
#11 Aug 28 2013 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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My only concern is this remedy, while creating new worlds, doesn't do a whole lot for the already existing worlds that players have developed characters on. Who is going to want to restart on a new world when they have a lvl 20+ character already? I like my Egg, and I would like to develop him further.

That said, anything that helps alleviate the stress on the population is definitely welcomed. Hopefully this, along with an idle logout procedure will do wonders to quell the angst.

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#12 Aug 28 2013 at 7:44 AM Rating: Decent
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vahlmyth wrote:
I'm banking that they will hold off on new servers and watch the post release population to see if


Let's say a new server costs $30,000 in hardware plus $5k/mo in datacenter fees, plus $20,000 in labor in maintenance per year.

The cost is tiny, but the impact on perception is large. They will be building out more servers than they expect to need.
#13 Aug 28 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Refews wrote:
My only concern is this remedy, while creating new worlds, doesn't do a whole lot for the already existing worlds that players have developed characters on.


As I understand it, they have a character transfer service that existed in the past. My guess is they will bring it back in the post-launch maelstrom, and entire linkshells will migrate.
#14 Aug 28 2013 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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Refews wrote:
My only concern is this remedy, while creating new worlds, doesn't do a whole lot for the already existing worlds that players have developed characters on. Who is going to want to restart on a new world when they have a lvl 20+ character already? I like my Egg, and I would like to develop him further.

That said, anything that helps alleviate the stress on the population is definitely welcomed. Hopefully this, along with an idle logout procedure will do wonders to quell the angst.



My entire circle of RL friends dumped their Gilgamesh characters and restarted on Lamia, because Gilgamesh is not getting unlocked for months at this rate.

They decided they'd rather play together and lose their progress and start over.
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#15 Aug 28 2013 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
Mopdaddy wrote:
Wint wrote:
Mopdaddy wrote:
Empty apologies... Hooray.


So adding more servers isn't enough for you?

I can't even get a @#%^ing server list...


Hence the announcement and reason for this thread.

/boggle
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#16 Aug 28 2013 at 7:56 AM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Mopdaddy wrote:
Empty apologies... Hooray.


So adding more servers isn't enough for you?


Not for me it not they need more than just servers and goes way deeper than just that.. They need support so they can fix the issues that are not allowing people even to get that far. Email support servers are dropping and takes days well maybe even weeks since it took days just to let us know they even got the email. Phones are swamped. Tesee has lost all her pre-order items at this point. Time to start hiring more people.
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#17 Aug 28 2013 at 7:57 AM Rating: Default
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rakuni wrote:
Refews wrote:
My only concern is this remedy, while creating new worlds, doesn't do a whole lot for the already existing worlds that players have developed characters on.


As I understand it, they have a character transfer service that existed in the past. My guess is they will bring it back in the post-launch maelstrom, and entire linkshells will migrate.


The problem is they are going to charge for this service. Very few will want to transfer unless they lift that.
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#18Mopdaddy, Posted: Aug 28 2013 at 8:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ... /boggle
#19 Aug 28 2013 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
rakuni wrote:
Refews wrote:
My only concern is this remedy, while creating new worlds, doesn't do a whole lot for the already existing worlds that players have developed characters on.


As I understand it, they have a character transfer service that existed in the past. My guess is they will bring it back in the post-launch maelstrom, and entire linkshells will migrate.


The problem is they are going to charge for this service. Very few will want to transfer unless they lift that.


In this case, they may offer it for free for a limited time, just to relieve the pressure on the existing servers.

They charged for it historically in XI to prevent people from ganking entire linkshell banks and then jumping ships. They also imposed a 3 month wait time between jumps for each account on XI for the same reason.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#20flashbolt, Posted: Aug 28 2013 at 8:20 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) -No Queue
#21 Aug 28 2013 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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flashbolt wrote:
(PS I had a dps friend sit in a queue for a dungeon for an hour...that should tell you just how many AFKrs there are...)
Go tell any old FFXI Monk or Warrior just how tragic waiting an hour to do anything is.
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#22 Aug 28 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Excellent
THis is exactly the kind of substantial statement people needed to hear. This should all be over by next week.

People who genuinely believe this is an empty apology have unrealistic expectations about what they're entitled to.

Edited, Aug 28th 2013 7:24am by Thayos
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#23 Aug 28 2013 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Mopdaddy wrote:
Empty apologies... Hooray.


So adding more servers isn't enough for you?


I don't think adding more servers will make the Ultros one faster and get rid of our "server full" problem. Although if it somehow works out that it does, then I will jump for joy. I wish there was an update from SE that would expand the existing server capacities. I understand that the new folks have problems trying to initially get into any server, but those of us who have made their characters already are stuck with long wait times without an afk boot system.
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#24 Aug 28 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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flashbolt wrote:
(PS I had a dps friend sit in a queue for a dungeon for an hour...that should tell you just how many AFKrs there are...)


I think it would be silly for someone to queue in the duty finder and then go afk for 8 hours...

Edited, Aug 28th 2013 9:34am by Valkayree
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#25 Aug 28 2013 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
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rakuni wrote:
vahlmyth wrote:
I'm banking that they will hold off on new servers and watch the post release population to see if


Let's say a new server costs $30,000 in hardware plus $5k/mo in datacenter fees, plus $20,000 in labor in maintenance per year.

The cost is tiny, but the impact on perception is large. They will be building out more servers than they expect to need.



Depends on what your overall profit margin is. SE has been in dire financial straights and unless the project manager can make a **solid** business case that not only will they recoup any capital investments but it will increase their profit margins long term, the answer will be "no".
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#26 Aug 28 2013 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
THis is exactly the kind of substantial statement people needed to hear. This should all be over by next week.

People who genuinely believe this is an empty apology have unrealistic expectations about what they're entitled to.


QFT^^

I try to be sympathetic to those that don't understand technology that well. One of my buddies in game refuses to believe SE didn't have enough time to to fix the issue prior to launch. It's simply not enough to "buy equipment and plug it in", this equipment must be programed to work correctly. Then I hear the complaint..."Well they saw the pre-order buys, why didn't they do more?" The simple truth to that argument is no company including SE goes off pre-orders alone. They have marketing and business division that tracks projections of people that will buy the game. Obviously the numbers were higher than projected hence the problem. Fast-forward to today and SE is accepting the blame as they should and increasing capacity. I'm growing tired of defending SE to people when we're all upset at them for not doing more to make this launch painless for all.

Now the one area where SE really needs to improve is their customer service. The phone number is **** near impossible to find and the email support is totally useless for me. The chat service isn't much better as I waited over 2hrs on there only to have them close for the night and just kick me off. Customers are entitled to better service than this. This is a genuine complaint that most people would agree with. The server errors aren't valid anymore guys. SE is fixing the problem, but this problem takes time to resolve.
#27 Aug 28 2013 at 8:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not to mention preorder numbers could just be thrown out the window due to people preordering to get the EA codes and then cancelling their orders Smiley: disappointed
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#28 Aug 28 2013 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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Exactly. The server team and technical teams are doing what they can. (Although the auto afk thing should have been priority #1 and I don't know why they haven't done that yet.)

It's the customer service team that really dropped the ball on the launch, what with the whole double accounts thing and generally being unavailable. The marketing communications team could have done a better job, too, but their tight-lipped view is par for the course until they have concrete information to give out (such as "Yes we are buying more servers.")
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#29 Aug 28 2013 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Thought they added servers during p4 those got up pretty fast. Again I think it is more financial with all the losses and layoffs. they simply dont have the people to pull off a launch like this. They should have pushed off for a bit instead of having this much chaos. Too bad it had to go down like this because it dont matter how good the game is this will overshadow that for a long time to come. Most will eventually forget if the game is successful.




Edited, Aug 28th 2013 11:04am by Nashred
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#30 Aug 28 2013 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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The servers they added during P4/early access (can't remember which now) were the spares they had on hand. They were just inadequate.

Actually, I got the impression SE went full speed ahead, **** the cost for ARR. They had 100 full time staff and another 200 contractors working on it last spring to get it going.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#31 Aug 28 2013 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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I truly don't understand the logic of people wondering why this won't alleviate the problem on ovepopulated servers.

It's not like people are just going to want to stay on a server they can't log into. My guess is entire linkshells and Free Companies will move to other servers for their mains. This will not only have the sum gain of putting the servers at max population but also may actually de-populate a couple in the process.
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#32 Aug 28 2013 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
flashbolt wrote:
(PS I had a dps friend sit in a queue for a dungeon for an hour...that should tell you just how many AFKrs there are...)


I think it would be silly for someone to queue in the duty finder and then go afk for 8 hours...

Edited, Aug 28th 2013 9:34am by Valkayree


Sorry if that was confusing....I'll clarify. What I was getting at is that if all the servers are totally full of active players, why does it take so long to queue? I think what is happening is that the "active player" population is low because of all the AFKrs, leading to these very long queue times. I rolled a tank so it's not an issue for me, but I'm sure people are frustrated.

I'd love to see data on what the actual populations of the servers are. It blows my mind that they don't included this on the server selection screen. I can't think of another MMO that doesn't put "low, med, high" next to server names.
#33 Aug 28 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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When I'm able to log in, I don't that many afkers, to be honest. All I see are thousands of other people running around like me.

Guess they all afk'd inside the inn.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#34 Aug 28 2013 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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Mopdaddy wrote:
Wint wrote:
Mopdaddy wrote:
Empty apologies... Hooray.


So adding more servers isn't enough for you?

I can't even get a @#%^ing server list...


"Well then there ish no pleashing you Mr. Powers."
#35 Aug 28 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't find buying a game and expecting to be able to play it to be unreasonably entitled

also, as an internal technical consultant and software developer, I can say that getting new servers up and running with the necessary software isn't very hard at all, single day process depending on who your supplier is (our company buys parts and constructs and installs software ourselves) it is only difficult when you outsource your servers (but why would a major company do that)
#36 Aug 28 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Default
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Finuve wrote:
I don't find buying a game and expecting to be able to play it to be unreasonably entitled

also, as an internal technical consultant and software developer, I can say that getting new servers up and running with the necessary software isn't very hard at all, single day process depending on who your supplier is (our company buys parts and constructs and installs software ourselves) it is only difficult when you outsource your servers (but why would a major company do that)


I am guessing they are paying some server farm out there and are not hosting them themselves. Server farms always have extra capacity and mirroring a server is not that tough.
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#37 Aug 28 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Finuve wrote:
I don't find buying a game and expecting to be able to play it to be unreasonably entitled

also, as an internal technical consultant and software developer, I can say that getting new servers up and running with the necessary software isn't very hard at all, single day process depending on who your supplier is (our company buys parts and constructs and installs software ourselves) it is only difficult when you outsource your servers (but why would a major company do that)

Cost control. You rent hardware, get SLAs in place and then when the population goes down after the intial "boom" you aren't sitting on a mountain of hardware you can't do anything with.

<--- Business consultant

Edited, Aug 28th 2013 11:30am by Lefein
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#38 Aug 28 2013 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Finuve wrote:

also, as an internal technical consultant and software developer, I can say that getting new servers up and running with the necessary software isn't very hard at all, single day process depending on who your supplier is (our company buys parts and constructs and installs software ourselves) it is only difficult when you outsource your servers (but why would a major company do that)


The answer is dollars and cents. I don't think most people realize that I believe it's Amazon servers that power all of Netflix streaming/business. We found this out when the servers crashed how damaging a single server farm with no redundancy can be the end of a business overnight. Luckily the Xmas crash of Netflix wasn't a long one. My point is that outsourcing servers is done on all levels by most companies. SE themselves has India and Chinese server redundancies they used when FFXI was shutdown due to the power outages from the disaster years ago. The servers from the Montreal location run very well so far if traffic is acceptable. This means SE did a great job programming them for quality(latency, QoS, load balancing and stuff like that), but unfortunately the servers are getting the notorious BSoD because they can't handle the flux of that many people. SE lost tons of money after the 1.0 failure. I'm going to assume they never projected this many people to return to play a game so bad, they killed support of it while their other MMO FFXI is still going strong after 11 years
#39 Aug 28 2013 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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We're not talking about commercial off the shelf software, here, where you can just turn on the installer and let 'er rip and "next, next, next" through all the menus. At best, they can clone a recovery from their backup onto the new hardware, but then they have to spend several hours or even days manually configuring all the settings required to get a new world server (which is, in all likelihood, a cluster of servers, not just a single machine) up and running.

Then they have to add in all the support hardware for it - switches, routers, battery backups, backup systems. (Let's not forget that you have to buy two servers for every one server you use in production. Modern day backup systems are clones that can run the software just like the primary servers, albeit more slowly, with about 10-15 minutes notice.)

Then they have to test each server individually. Bring them on, one at a time. If you try to bring up all ten new servers or whatever they are adding all at once... one mis-configuration could take out the entire data center, and you won't know which server it is if you turned them on together.

Then they have to test the actual game on the server internally. Does character creation work, does the data store? That kind of basic QA testing will take another full day. Sure, a lot of that testing will be automated, but a lot of it still has to be managed by a human being, too.

So no, this is not a one day project. Once the hardware comes in (which will take 2-3 days once an order is placed since servers are usually built to order), that's another two or three 16 hour days between the hardware, software, network, and QA teams, since little can be done concurrently.
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#40 Aug 28 2013 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
rakuni wrote:
Refews wrote:
My only concern is this remedy, while creating new worlds, doesn't do a whole lot for the already existing worlds that players have developed characters on.


As I understand it, they have a character transfer service that existed in the past. My guess is they will bring it back in the post-launch maelstrom, and entire linkshells will migrate.


The problem is they are going to charge for this service. Very few will want to transfer unless they lift that.


I can very easily see SE offering the first world transfer for your character for free, then charging for any subsequent transfers from that point forward. SE is aware of how many friends and family members were separated from each other, I'm sure.

While I agree that SE's customer service is horrible, in terms of this game alone...it really hasn't been all that bad, barring a few issues. Perhaps I'm now a little biased because I got the PS3 CE digital download for free after it was broken thanks to Sony's ineptitude, but I can see when it comes to ARR, they're trying as hard as they can to please us.
#41 Aug 28 2013 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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They're finally addressing the problem at its root instead of fooling around with ineffective 3 hour down-times, w00t. It's always been a hardware issue.

I'm in the camp that hopes they offer the first world transfer free of charge, as I wanted to play with friends on another server but was unable to and I won't be making a new character at this point.

Edited, Aug 28th 2013 12:12pm by Thodne
#42 Aug 28 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Once the hardware is up and running they could appease a lot of people by giving everyone 1 free server transfer and another 7 days free or something like that.

Two weeks from now no one will even remember the error codes.
#43 Aug 28 2013 at 10:26 AM Rating: Default
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Yelta wrote:
Once the hardware is up and running they could appease a lot of people by giving everyone 1 free server transfer and another 7 days free or something like that.

Two weeks from now no one will even remember the error codes.


We are already getting 30 days free trial not sure 7 days makes much difference... I am not looking for anything really except fixing the issues. Getting back to me on Tesee issues just so she can log on. I had to buy a retail copy to get here back to her original account and now she has lost all her early access stuff. The whole no service account issue should have been handled by now. We have a holiday weekend coming up and having the servers working by then would be nice since Tesee is out of town and I wont have a ton to do....

I dont want anything other than be able to play the game but they should make it up to people and make it free to play to those who bought till the issues are straightened out and the free trial should start once they resolve everyone's issues. That is just good business sense because it really is hard to charge if you can not provide the service people are paying for even if they technically are not due to free trial. You cant charge people for something they cant use.


For me it is not about the money. I just want to play and I want to play on the same world as Tesee.



Edited, Aug 28th 2013 12:31pm by Nashred
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#44 Aug 28 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yes ultimate I'd like to see people able to log in with minimal wait times, which it sounds like what they're shooting for. Booting those who are AFK would help a little, but I can easily see people getting programs to cause keypresses at regular intervals, or just good old rubberbands on a joystick (while in an inn). MOAR HARDWAER is what we need, and it sounds like that's what we're getting.
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#45 Aug 28 2013 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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During NA primetime when I can't get in, I go to my char on a JPN server. During JPN primetime when I can't get in, I go to my char on a NA server. So short of maintenance/work/sleep, I'm currently playing as much as I can. If this changes with the increased capacity that's cool. But so far I'm not complaining about just being able to play the game. Obviously, it would be better if everyone could join up/buy a copy/create chars with friends/progress their chars in a more concurrent manner. But considering it just launched, I'm not overreacting just yet.
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#46 Aug 28 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Yes ultimate I'd like to see people able to log in with minimal wait times, which it sounds like what they're shooting for. Booting those who are AFK would help a little, but I can easily see people getting programs to cause keypresses at regular intervals, or just good old rubberbands on a joystick (while in an inn). MOAR HARDWAER is what we need, and it sounds like that's what we're getting.




Rubberband on the joystick?!?!?! You sire are a genius.

Edited, Aug 28th 2013 1:12pm by Stealthrang
#47 Aug 28 2013 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Stealthrang wrote:
Wint wrote:
Yes ultimate I'd like to see people able to log in with minimal wait times, which it sounds like what they're shooting for. Booting those who are AFK would help a little, but I can easily see people getting programs to cause keypresses at regular intervals, or just good old rubberbands on a joystick (while in an inn). MOAR HARDWAER is what we need, and it sounds like that's what we're getting.




Rubberband on the joystick?!?!?! You sire are a genius.

Edited, Aug 28th 2013 1:12pm by Stealthrang


LOL Smiley: laugh

Yeah in Gran Tourismo 5 you can cheat easily by doing that one endurance race that is on the oval track and just set your controller joystick to always steer your car into the wall, rubberband it in place (map your other joystick so up is accelerate, rubber band that in place too), and then walk away and do something else. In about 2 hours you'll have won the race since you never had to pit stop for tires Smiley: tongue
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#48 Aug 28 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Stealthrang wrote:
Wint wrote:
Yes ultimate I'd like to see people able to log in with minimal wait times, which it sounds like what they're shooting for. Booting those who are AFK would help a little, but I can easily see people getting programs to cause keypresses at regular intervals, or just good old rubberbands on a joystick (while in an inn). MOAR HARDWAER is what we need, and it sounds like that's what we're getting.




Rubberband on the joystick?!?!?! You sire are a genius.

Edited, Aug 28th 2013 1:12pm by Stealthrang

Did that with DQ on PS2 when synthing stuff as the steps you took progressed the synth. The wife's little black hair ties worked like a charm.
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#49vahlmyth, Posted: Aug 28 2013 at 11:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's so cute that you think those 30 days are "free".. Bet you think all that Obama stash is free too..
#50 Aug 28 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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vahlmyth wrote:
Nashred wrote:
Yelta wrote:
Once the hardware is up and running they could appease a lot of people by giving everyone 1 free server transfer and another 7 days free or something like that.

Two weeks from now no one will even remember the error codes.


We are already getting 30 days free trial not sure 7 days makes much difference...


Edited, Aug 28th 2013 12:31pm by Nashred



It's so cute that you think those 30 days are "free".. Bet you think all that Obama stash is free too..

Nothing is free in a commercial business. Nothing.

The reason they say it's "free" is that by labeling something as "free" the perceived value of said item/service goes to ZERO - which allows them the flexibility to say "why are you complaining? It's FREE!"



It doesnt matter if you Buy the game 6 months from now they come with a free trial just like it still is in FFXI so I really dont get your point.
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#51vahlmyth, Posted: Aug 28 2013 at 12:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The cost of those 30 days was built into the game purchase price - trust me.
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