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#27vahlmyth, Posted: Aug 29 2013 at 4:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) How can you have any faith in a dev team that did not use an AFK autolog/boot?
#28 Aug 29 2013 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately OP, this is not the audience for your type of concern. I had a similar post albeit a bit more creative regarding my opinion of 1.0 and had little to no sympathetic responses then and wouldn't expect you to get any now.

Being as I like the game you can take this knowing my bias. I'll try and explain to you what you are going through. Nothing will ever be as good as your first MMO... that's it. Novelty is amazing but short lived. SE did everything they could with this (save not including NMs!!! WHY!?!?!?) ehem... I am passed your level 15s and am enjoying it still which is more than enough for me. Nothing will ever match FFXI but then again no consecutive good experience every matches the first. Give her a chance man... I think you'll dig it.

Hopefully this helps
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#29 Aug 29 2013 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Some people have been saying this game is easy. I find it easy to play in all the right ways but some of these solo instance fights on Conjurer are kicking my **** pretty good. People are constantly shouting for raises in the starter zones (prompting others to bring up warm fuzzy memories of the dunes) so at least some are being a bit challenged. It's all tutorial until endgame anyway. I'm sure there will be some hardcore content then. If not the players will demand it and I'm confident SE will listen.
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#30 Aug 29 2013 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Well since I can't actually log in to play, I decided to watch someone who was streaming the Garuda fight earlier. They weren't really struggling with the enounter(consistently close to defeating her), but I think he was saying it was mostly due to gear. He said that he hadn't been doing dungeons so he could improve his character in that respect, but I would expect someone who hadn't made significant progress through dungeons to get stomped. The mechanics of the fight didn't seem very challenging(just an opinion from a spectator), but I don't know... are the primals supposed to be the difficult endgame content?
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#31 Aug 29 2013 at 4:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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vahlmyth wrote:
AaronLamm wrote:
extremely tedious and mind-numbingly similar, monotonous button crushing, little to no strategy. Grouping remains the same, lackluster and un-inspired.

.



+1

The combat mechanics and abilities leave much to be desired. I guess there's a whole population of people who enjoy the lore and all the other stuff you can do like crafting, silly pets, etc.

For me the basic combat/skill mechanics are what make or break a game and what I've seen so far is very. very simplistic and outdated.



Idk I love the combat system to me it's a blast. That said I played ffxi for about 315 days (of actual game play time) and trust me many of exp parties have put me to sleep hours upon hours of macroing two to 3 buttons. This let's me level in ways that incorporate many diff game play elements. And lots of things will be pretty straight forward at the start but once the games gets going I'm 100% certain we will have all kinds on intricate Dungeons & boss fights
#32 Aug 29 2013 at 4:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was being polite but the caution against touting the line against casual players is well said and deserves being emphasized.

I've zero tolerance for blanket statements about game difficulty to the point of viewing players who are in learning phases as lessers, as well as the game designers for designing with them in mind.

This is not Dark Souls, this is not Wizards online. The goal of the game from the designer's perspective is to teach even the newest player to video games how to learn to raid endgame by the time they reach 50.

This means they are making ways of encouraging casual players, to become hardcore FFXIV players.

As such, it must be acknowledged that this game will not appeal to everyone, particularly those expecting the most grueling challenges on the onset. While I welcome you to stay around and play - SE's, specifically Yoshida's expectations on the game's popularity and level of success has already been surpassed to the point of the Producer/Director feeling embarrassed and personally responsible for the server issues we currently face as a result of that low estimation, indicates to me that we can afford to be somewhat niche in our player-base.

Perhaps this is simply not the game for you. I encourage you, however, to stick around. You may find challenges where you did not expect them.
#33 Aug 29 2013 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Why does everyone equate lengthy grind with dificulty?
#34 Aug 29 2013 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowofaDoubt wrote:
Why does everyone equate lengthy grind with dificulty?

Makes it easier to deal with the fact that most everything else about it was easy?
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#35 Aug 29 2013 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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papajay wrote:
I played FFXI from November 2003 til just a few months ago, and I gotta say, the face that it's not an insane timesink is the part I like the most. Gone are the days of standing around trying to beat 19 gil sellers at claiming a monster that only spawns once every 16 hours (REAL TIME) gone are the days where you have to bring an npc 20 items that have a .2% drop rate and are over-farmed anyway. Sure, I liked a lot of elements of Final Fantasy 11, but you have to admit, that game was digital sadism half of the time.

Anyone part of a Sky/Dyna shell in the hayday of level 75 cap can "attest" (HAH! Get it?) to this.

Do yourself a favor before you quit, play more of the game. You might find something you like once you leave the starting areas.

Edited, Aug 29th 2013 1:32pm by papajay


QFT.

I encountered a little difficulty persuading a couple of friends who I'd played with in FFXI, and later LOTRO, to give FFXIV a go because they were convinced that it would be more of same long grinds and punishing game mechanics. Thankfully, I managed to persuade them otherwise and they both bought a copy of the game :)
#36 Aug 29 2013 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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MMO gaming has changed a lot in the past decade. 10 years ago, the majority of people who played MMOs were from the hardcore community. They determined if pc games would succeed or not. Pc gaming is more mainstream now. There are a lot of buyers in this market. So much so that companies no longer target the hardcore community. They simply no longer have the power to swing the market, as they have become a minority. This is the change you are seeing in today's MMOs. To be competitive, and this more important now that there more MMOs, you have to appeal to a sizable number of available buyers. The hardcore community no longer has this kind of influence on the current market. My suggestion would be to kick start a project that would be more to your liking. Get the hardcore community together and fund something along the lines of a dark souls online. MMOs have changed to accommodate a much wider demographic of pc gamers, and hardcore MMOs are going the way of the dinosaurs.
#37 Aug 29 2013 at 5:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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AaronLamm wrote:
Not Impressed


Sums up exactly how I feel about this /thread.
#38 Aug 29 2013 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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PhrozenFFXI wrote:
MMO gaming has changed a lot in the past decade. 10 years ago, the majority of people who played MMOs were from the hardcore community. They determined if pc games would succeed or not. Pc gaming is more mainstream now. There are a lot of buyers in this market. So much so that companies no longer target the hardcore community. They simply no longer have the power to swing the market, as they have become a minority. This is the change you are seeing in today's MMOs. To be competitive, and this more important now that there more MMOs, you have to appeal to a sizable number of available buyers. The hardcore community no longer has this kind of influence on the current market. My suggestion would be to kick start a project that would be more to your liking. Get the hardcore community together and fund something along the lines of a dark souls online. MMOs have changed to accommodate a much wider demographic of pc gamers, and hardcore MMOs are going the way of the dinosaurs.


I don't even think hardcore mmo gamers want hardcore anymore. When I was reading about this game coming out I thought it was going to be a piece of trash cuz of how "causal" they were making it and I wanted something like ffxi back before it went "soft". Then I played this and looked back and realized I never want to go back to sky sea and dyna again, long grind and crap shoot drops were not hard or fun. It's great to hop on have a blast and hop off and still have plenty of time to enjoy the outside world if you want.

now if they add some stuff like salvage (with better drop rates) and nyzul isle this will be the best game ever......I'm sure it's on the way
#39 Aug 29 2013 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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a lot of the people who are complaining about the difficulty haven't reached the parts of the game that are. hard mode garuda is just as hard as it was before. I think what might be turning some people off is a change in the difficulty of some of the other side quests like AF which can be soloed now. I would be lying if i said i wasn't dissapointed that a lot of the game can be soloed now, because having too much solo defeats the purpose of an MMO. However having finished the story, there certainly is difficult dungeons and primals. They didn't neglect to add in the hard content, just that most of it at least for now, is meant to be an introduction to the game.

My only real gripe with the game at the moment is that the world doesn't feel dangerous enough. I went around the world to uncover the map for each area as my 50 whm, and i didn't bother to equip my AF so i kept on whatever i had from my 20 arcanist. I had no problem at all getting the map for every area. I don't even think i saw any monsters higher than level 50, and not once was i close to death. Although i am dissapointed there aren't places i should be afraid to walk, i have a strong feeling these things will get added in the future. Were being reintroduced to the game, and i'll bet they plan to ramp up the difficulty as we go along.

Also if people want a real challenge...ifrit extreme still exists although if you want to fight him your going to have to get started on a relic weapon.
#40 Aug 29 2013 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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The game is supposed to be friendly to newbies to MMOs, and progressively gets more challenging to cater those who are experienced in MMOs, thus creating a game for both worlds.

Give it more of a chance. At least get to the Ifrit fight. (While not REALLY hard, it's still a tad challenging.)
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#41 Aug 29 2013 at 10:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Definitely try out levels 15-30. Also do a craft or a gathering class to start to feel the breadth. This game is not "too easy". Only if you think of it as a race to level cap game like WoW.
#42 Aug 30 2013 at 1:34 AM Rating: Good
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domice wrote:
I don't even think hardcore mmo gamers want hardcore anymore. When I was reading about this game coming out I thought it was going to be a piece of trash cuz of how "causal" they were making it and I wanted something like ffxi back before it went "soft". Then I played this and looked back and realized I never want to go back to sky sea and dyna again, long grind and crap shoot drops were not hard or fun. It's great to hop on have a blast and hop off and still have plenty of time to enjoy the outside world if you want.


Exactly, I'm in this boat. I was a serious end game player in FFXI for a couple of years before quitting. I have very fond memories of the time spent in FFXI and the rewards and trinkets to go with it. The day I got my Adaberk is still pretty fresh in my memory and was the culmination of over a year of camps with my shell. But would I go through all of that again for the same (extremely) satisfying rewards? **** no.
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#43 Aug 30 2013 at 4:02 AM Rating: Good
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Chialing wrote:
I'm loving it. If it isn't your thing, it isn't your thing. MMORPGs are no longer made from the 'punish you with grinding and attunements and call it challenging' mold anymore. Things change. I hope you find one to your liking.


If what Yoshi says is true and in 3 months when patch 2.1 is released only 100 people have cleared the crystal tower or Behemoths lair (which ever he said) you might change your tune. All you'll be doing is grinding dungeons instead of monsters at different camps. The principle is the same just different ways of looking at it.
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#44 Aug 30 2013 at 4:51 AM Rating: Good
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Trust me, the end game is NOT easy. there are specific bosses which are very hard and require every person to know the strategy 100%.
If one person messes up once, it will most likely end up in a wipe.

The bosses/strategies are much harder than FFXI HNM's or bosses was, as they were pretty much all tank and spank.

However in XIV situations arise in which players MUST memorize boss skill patterns and AoE, aswell as standing in the correct location (down to the Millimeter) or avoiding pitfalls (Yes some bosses you can fall to your instant death in dungeons). In this respect it has gone quite WoW-esque.

Hard bosses are currently:
Garuda Mini
Ifrit Hard Mode
Demon Wall
A few in Sunken Temple of Qarn arent hard but need good strats.

Try a few of those and you will definitely notice a huge ramp in difficult and the requirement of player co-operation.
#45 Aug 30 2013 at 5:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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blowfin wrote:
domice wrote:
I don't even think hardcore mmo gamers want hardcore anymore. When I was reading about this game coming out I thought it was going to be a piece of trash cuz of how "causal" they were making it and I wanted something like ffxi back before it went "soft". Then I played this and looked back and realized I never want to go back to sky sea and dyna again, long grind and crap shoot drops were not hard or fun. It's great to hop on have a blast and hop off and still have plenty of time to enjoy the outside world if you want.


Exactly, I'm in this boat. I was a serious end game player in FFXI for a couple of years before quitting. I have very fond memories of the time spent in FFXI and the rewards and trinkets to go with it. The day I got my Adaberk is still pretty fresh in my memory and was the culmination of over a year of camps with my shell. But would I go through all of that again for the same (extremely) satisfying rewards? **** no.


Due to sheer chance I saw a shout for Tier V and Tier VI Jeuno Voidwatch last night. At 11:30 PM, the alliance leader sent us to upgrade then asked if we all wanted to continue to Providence Watcher. Of course!

Two and a half hours past my bedtime I had a clear.

This was an exceptional night since I'd been waiting since last March or so for those clears, but being in a hardcore HNM is like that every night.
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#46 Aug 30 2013 at 7:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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blowfin wrote:
domice wrote:
I don't even think hardcore mmo gamers want hardcore anymore. When I was reading about this game coming out I thought it was going to be a piece of trash cuz of how "causal" they were making it and I wanted something like ffxi back before it went "soft". Then I played this and looked back and realized I never want to go back to sky sea and dyna again, long grind and crap shoot drops were not hard or fun. It's great to hop on have a blast and hop off and still have plenty of time to enjoy the outside world if you want.


Exactly, I'm in this boat. I was a serious end game player in FFXI for a couple of years before quitting. I have very fond memories of the time spent in FFXI and the rewards and trinkets to go with it. The day I got my Adaberk is still pretty fresh in my memory and was the culmination of over a year of camps with my shell. But would I go through all of that again for the same (extremely) satisfying rewards? **** no.


That's the point that I was trying to make. We as consumers have changed and the market reflects that.

Another thing is that most of the people I've seen complaining don't understand that it isn't that black and white. The "you're either hardcore or casual" just isn't true because there are many types of personalities. A lot of us fall at various points in between and this game was made for that. Blizzard showed the MMO industry that you can have success and longevity without targeting the hardcore player base. In order to keep up with the Joneses, other game developers followed suit. The result is a competitive market that gives us what we want. I see myself playing ARR for a very long time.
#47 Aug 30 2013 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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AaronLamm wrote:
A troll post? I just joined ZAM. This is what I'm talking about. People blindly posting about other people's posts. Forums were built for discussion.

Maybe one of these replies have already changed my perception of continuing. Seriously though, some of you should grow up and not just bash people for opinions.

This is why children shouldn't be allowed to join forums. Next time some of you decide to reply to a post, learn to give advice or recommend things or suggest things and not simply blast someone for their opinion.


First off, it was a bit rude for people to assume this was a troll post... however, as pretty much everyone else has said, you leveled 2 classes to 15. You didn't even attempt a single dungeon yet (which IS the group content). You didn't fight Ifrit, you didn't join a grand company, you didn't get your chocobo, you didn't unlock any jobs, I'm guessing you haven't crafted, gathered, or explored all that much. The game has a million things to do. If you actually give it a chance, and level past 15, you'll be fine.

Secondly, there is PLENTY of challenge in the game. Some of the later dungeons are quite difficult, the Titan and Garuda fights offer an excellent challenge, and endgame content looks to be pretty beastly. What did you expect to get from a post like this? Sunshine and happiness and people giving you a pat on the back? You tried almost none of the game, and made baseless accusations about difficulty. If you had expected different responses, you should have worded your OP much differently... such as, does the challenge ramp up at higher levels? Instead of just assuming everything is easy. Nothing annoys people more than when others make blanket statements about something they really don't understand and haven't even attempted.
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#48 Aug 30 2013 at 8:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
[quote=AaronLamm] You tried almost none of the game, and made baseless accusations about difficulty. If you had expected different responses, you should have worded your OP much differently... such as, does the challenge ramp up at higher levels? Instead of just assuming everything is easy. Nothing annoys people more than when others make blanket statements about something they really don't understand and haven't even attempted.


Thank you BartelX, it takes someone with a bit of patience to state this correctly.
#49 Aug 30 2013 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Gnu wrote:
BartelX wrote:
You tried almost none of the game, and made baseless accusations about difficulty. If you had expected different responses, you should have worded your OP much differently... such as, does the challenge ramp up at higher levels? Instead of just assuming everything is easy. Nothing annoys people more than when others make blanket statements about something they really don't understand and haven't even attempted.


Thank you BartelX, it takes someone with a bit of patience to state this correctly.


Sorry, but no.

The game has been out for less than a week so of course the OP experience is going to be limited. It's pretty clear the spoke about their own experience so 'baseless accusation' is pretty inaccurate. Blanket statements about something they haven't attempted? I don't see anywhere in that post where he states anything about part of the game he hasn't played. Trying to spin opinions someone makes about their own personal experience as 'baseless accusations' and 'blanket statements' isn't a good look.

This isn't a 'XIV sux lulz' post. You guys don't have to raise the shield every time someone says that they think it might not be for them. There are going to be people who are disappointed with this game despite the fact that you like it. There are going to be people who think the game is easy despite the fact that you might find it challenging. Different strokes for different folks.

Edited, Aug 30th 2013 11:03am by FilthMcNasty
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#50 Aug 30 2013 at 9:08 AM Rating: Default
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Then clearly you didn't play FFXI. That game, while beautiful and full of depth, was total *********
You're calling this game 'easy' is because you're used to a game that's frankly designed to be tedious, slow, and overly difficult.
You couldn't even SOLO in FFXI (except as a hunter, and that was mind numbingly long, boring, and stupid.. not to mention weak).
2H specials? an ability every 5-10 levels? FFXI is nostalgia **** and I think your memories of it are fonder than the gameplay.
Even with all of the improvements over the years, it's still slow, tedious, boring, and far too difficult for the average player and
I have 2 endgame classes, after that I was like ***** this ****'. and I'd played it since it's beta test on the ps2 many years ago
and continued to play it up until last year (when I repurchased it on steam) and it was still a terrible, tedious experience.
Clearly it was marketed and catered to the average japanese player which like in games like persona (changes between us and jp)
are VASTLY different difficulty levels. I played beta and 1.0 and it was ****, ARR is COMPLETELY different in a lot of ways so
I have no clue what you're talking about - and you should be impressed, this is the best mmorpg out there besides WoW and Defiance.
#51 Aug 30 2013 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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Serepticia wrote:
Then clearly you didn't play FFXI. That game, while beautiful and full of depth, was total bullsh*t.
You're calling this game 'easy' is because you're used to a game that's frankly designed to be tedious, slow, and overly difficult.
You couldn't even SOLO in FFXI (except as a hunter, and that was mind numbingly long, boring, and stupid.. not to mention weak).
2H specials? an ability every 5-10 levels? FFXI is nostalgia **** and I think your memories of it are fonder than the gameplay.
Even with all of the improvements over the years, it's still slow, tedious, boring, and far too difficult for the average player and
I have 2 endgame classes, after that I was like '@#%^ this sh*t'. and I'd played it since it's beta test on the ps2 many years ago
and continued to play it up until last year (when I repurchased it on steam) and it was still a terrible, tedious experience.
Clearly it was marketed and catered to the average japanese player which like in games like persona (changes between us and jp)
are VASTLY different difficulty levels. I played beta and 1.0 and it was sh*t, ARR is COMPLETELY different in a lot of ways so
I have no clue what you're talking about - and you should be impressed, this is the best mmorpg out there besides WoW and Defiance.


This is opposite of what many people said they experienced after Abyssea came out. They left in droves, complaining that FFXI was now "easy mode."

Someone at SE apparently heard that because SoA, the new expansion, is full of the same old grindiness as classic FFXI. Smiley: rolleyes
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