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Is anyone else running into total @sshole tanks?Follow

#52 Aug 31 2013 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
25 posts
LouMercado wrote:
Hi. I'm a tank :)
I put this on a different thread and no one replied. I had a bunch of views but no replies, so I figured since you're getting so many replies on this kinda hate thread, I figured I'd post it here and troll if I can?
I've been playing MMO' s from a while, and have been tanking for a while (2001 on FFXI) and there's something that kills me. Do I literally have to mark the dude you need to kill first or can everyone just understand that you should only hit the one that I'm hitting and not the other adds??? I had a lancer the other day get ****** at me for not being able to hold an imp away from him but had 4 other things on me, all were on me, I was attacking the big armored dude that was the main threat an due literally wanted to "pick off the imps one by one as I was supposed to hold aggro through that". Dude, really? The only person that has an excuse if the mob turns to it is a healer.... cause seriously, sometimes things happen, they can't help saving our lives and they gotta D a massive cure. One tomahawk and that solves that. But I'm not gonna literally spam Overpower and tomahawk on a side imp because you think you can single handedly start picking off mobs on my aggro that I'm not actually fighting.
I've got a better one. So I get into Hala, realize this one dps has no clue, blames me, whatever... So I actually get Fisher Price on him and mark the targets... HUGE number 1 on top of the enemy s they can organize the kills defeat packs quicker...... you know the dude STILL started fighting the off adds, died again and still blamed me???. Wait.... he didn't leave, no. He demanded I leave so they could get another tank.

Sorry to troll your thread, just needed to share since no one reads my "please understand the aggro table and tanking" threads.
Hundred bucks says 50% of the dps'ers don't know where the aggro bar under there name is. :(
Thanks.... Again, sorry for the troll.

If you want the run to go smooth, mark the mobs. Im a tank and I will always mark mobs unless we have a THM pulling with sleep. THen I have him mark mobs. How is that lancer supposed to know which one you want killed first? Tanks have to be constantly switching targets in order to keep adds off the healer. Well good tanks anyways. It sounds like you simply do a couple flashes and then attack one mob. Thats a surefire way to have the adds chasing your healer.
#53 Aug 31 2013 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
617 posts
WasteOfSpace wrote:
I'd kill for a tank that can properly hold agro over my heals. Some are scary squishy as well.

I didn't decide to play conj because I wanted to heal, cc, dps,and pseudo-tank all at the same time, yet some of these groups are really pushing the limits of my "one man band" skills.

^This. I just finished a TTD run with a tank that would not use all. So everytime I started up cures, I pulled hate from anything that hadn't been touched yet. It was awful. There's really no excuse, because the GLA quests even teach you the importance of using Flash to draw hate. Trust me, I've done that quest.
#54 Aug 31 2013 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
655 posts
Most of my dungeon pulls go like this.. Tank pulls dps hit a target they get hate than I get hate from healing them or the tank, the tank stays on one target while I tank one and sleep another.... If somone marked 1=kill , 2 is off target tank should be using enimty moves on it once he has decent aggro on first one. 3=cc target.

I find alot of tanks are attacking the kill target till its dead.. there is no need for this. Once its at 50% check the hate meter if your good than switch targets and start getting aggro , this way it will be next to impossible for dps to take hate off you.

And PLEASE zoom out and keep watch on all adds... so many times a tank never looks around and sees what is happeneing around him.
#55 Aug 31 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
91 posts
I only did DF with CNJ and I've had good tanks. I'll do other jobs soon but I like to heal and I've done that well so I stick to it. Even some of them said it was the best run for them.
#56 Aug 31 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
3,530 posts
It sounds like what always happens with auto-group mechanics.

People get assigned a party, they run across people they'll probably never see again, and they simply don't care about any sort of reputation -- even if you personally wanted to avoid them, well, you may just be auto-grouped with them again sometime regardless.

The strange thing is that I've seen even good, well-informed players devolve into AFK auto-attackers when given auto-group. I suppose it's similar to the way lots of people turn into jerks when they post on the internet. Cool story, bro.
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#57 Aug 31 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
I love tanking, an I think I am pretty decent at it. Only bad run I've had so far was when the DPS kept attacking other mobs... I could hold hate on everything when others weren't following my lead.
Thayos Redblade
#58 Aug 31 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
26 posts
Being a tank I dislike coming into groups who refuse to watch their hate or at the very least attack my target. I have come across a few groups who forget that tanking in this game is not WoW tanking where you just run in and spam Blood Boil to keep aggro. So I think people as a whole need to readjust and learn the new game instead of trying to play this game like it is WoW and failing miserably.
#59 Aug 31 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
hey all!
I really enjoyed reading this thread, probably the most interesting thread I've read in a while. I usually avoid commenting on threads like the plague but i do occasionally read some.

I think its funny how many sub par tanks exist today. I've been playing a tanking class since Everquest back in 1999 which i played for several years. Back in those days when i was a teenager I had to learn the hard way how to tank properly, all we had as tanks was a auto-attack, a measly "kick" and a taunt button. If you had more then a couple adds in a group encounter you pretty much were guaranteed a wipe (from my experience). But thankfully MMO's have progressed the tank skill set from a measly couple of crappy buttons to hotbars full of useful abilities. When I think on that, we should have more tanks that are good at their roles given that its a easier role to play then before, but i guess not everyone comes from the old school MMO days like i do eh? I'd like to consider myself a competent tank and i find that one story mentioned earlier about the tank not being able to keep Ifrits aggro on him unbelievable. Sounds like all he was doing was the Fast Blade + Savage Blade combo, probably concerned more about dealing damage then trying to keep aggro with flash and shield bash. What i would really like to do is watch another tank in action, I would like to see how they fair with others. I guess ill have to switch classes soon if i want to see all these bad meat shields out there!

But I do agree with points made here with group roles in general not just with tanks. I've been in a few DF instance's with DPS roles who dont seem to care which mob I am currently attacking. They run up ahead and even attack before i do anything! As CNJ or THM are concerned, most I have grouped with know what they are doing. Its the "Kiting the Tank" problem which is most common among the casters, which doesn't bother me much at the moment as I can usually get the aggro off them before they start running in circles. It does help wonders to zoom out (as mentioned by someone earlier) and look as to what is going on around you so you can see the adds that are coming!

Anyways, hope what i said here was moderately interesting to read!
From a Concerned tank on Ultros
#60 Aug 31 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
4 posts
So this is I believe my first post ever. lol. As a tank as soon as we enter a instance I tell everyone, "Dps attack targets as numbered and heals if you get agro run to me not away please." This tends to set the rules at start and I have had no issues other than Ifrit, where dps did not kill the spike. Maybe I have an advantage being as I have tanked or healed in every mmorpg ever made it seems. I believe it is a tanks job to ensure that the party understands the basics, Before beginning. If you do this then typically it will run smoother. Don't worry as you get higher the scrub tanks will fall away, they always do.
#61 Aug 31 2013 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
94 posts
desmar wrote:
As a tank, I pride myself on making the run go smooth, but damage dealing classes cause their fair share of problems. While marking is available for everyone (if your tank isn't marking you can do it as well!) Most of the time you can see what the tank is hitting, and several times when I mark targets people still hit other targets. Another popular method is a lot of healers will dot up everything with Aero before they start dropping heals. This means they are generating double threat at the start of a fight, which is a surefire way to have monsters barreling your way. I love it when I get Thams and Conjurers who use sleep & repose. Makes regular monsters a walk in the park. Much love to the DPS & Heals that do that :).

I love tanking and wholeheartedly agree with this ^^

I wouldn't simply drop from a group if things weren't going my way - better to communicate with people and work together than just drop out. I feel lucky to be doing the tanking myself if that is what others are doing... @ssholes.

Salt and corrosion... the infamous old enemies of the crime fighter!
#62 Aug 31 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
2,377 posts
I never noticed this on the Duty Finder before, but there's that check to join party in progress. So I did that today, and have heard these horror stories a few times about bad tanks. But it also helps reassure me I am doing a fairly decent job so far in the role, as we get the job done and I get the "good tanking" post from time to time.

"The game is fun as **** to me and I don't need epeen DPS parsers to feel like a bad ****. " ~Curt Schilling (A.K.A Wyndwraith)
#63 Aug 31 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
135 posts
Had a few bad tanks, only 1 rude so far. Was playing with Ghost and Cilia (Ultros), our (first?) tank was pretty quiet and a newb but he didn't have an attitude and improved when giving tips.

Our second however... holy ****! I got healer aggro, dps took aggro and everything that could go wrong went wrong. I tanked the second boss in the manson for half the fight. He had no party chat enabled so we couldn't tell him that I was having aggro. finally he turns on party chat and he blames all 3 of us for being noobs. We had less than 10 minutes on the clock before we killed the last boss (finally). Those people are the worst, I don't mind helping people and giving tips where I can (obviously my tips are limited because I have yet to play a tank in FFXIV) but if people just outright refuse to learn then there is nothing one can do.

#64 Aug 31 2013 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
Tank dropping out hasn't happen to me, But Tanks that don't know how to tank i get a lot.
#65 Aug 31 2013 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
1,726 posts
Altair wrote:
I was doing my first Tam Tara, and our tank dropped party without a word after he won lot on two pieces of gear. I still remember his name. He ****** me off.

Ah that makes sense why they do it.. It happened to me once today.. We waited and another tank did drop in and we finished though...

I did another one where the tank had no idea what to do and was not listening to us, was not reading the chat log... Finally we took over and finished...

Edited, Aug 31st 2013 7:00pm by Nashred
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
#66 Aug 31 2013 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
270 posts
I play a tank on the character Reebie Baramnesra. I'd like to think I do a good job. I always pull the first mob using a ranged attack so that its obvious which mob the DPS can attack. Then once buffs are applied I use an area attack to get all the mobs focussed on me.

The above does rely on the DPS not attacking first or going for whatever mob they feel like though. I understand if its to get the mob off teh healer if it has strayed out of my range of course - but in any other circumstance please dont x.x
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#67 Aug 31 2013 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
1,310 posts
WasteOfSpace wrote:
I'd kill for a tank that can properly hold agro over my heals. Some are scary squishy as well.

I didn't decide to play conj because I wanted to heal, cc, dps,and pseudo-tank all at the same time, yet some of these groups are really pushing the limits of my "one man band" skills.

Leveling up conjurer in the 20s, I do get depressed when a tank shows up with 500hp and wearing damage gear and all but gets 2-shot at the first boss. Even he doesn't, there's nothing else for me to do but cure spam without a break because there's just absolutely no margin on a build like that for anything else, like sleeping mobs or curing anyone else that gets hurt. It makes everything harder than it has to be, so it's really a disservice to the team.

On the other hand, it's a real joy to see a tank with hp in the 1000s, and who marks targets. Smiley: inlove
#68 Aug 31 2013 at 6:20 PM Rating: Default
1,430 posts
Just finished the first 2 dungeons today and 2 of 3 runs went as smoothly as you like. Both wins were from Duty Finder, the only bad run was in a pickup group that had NO healer and tried to shoehorn me (an Arcanist) into the healer spot. Sorry guys, that hardly worked in XI and **** sure doesn't work here.

Guess I was lucky to have 2 tanks who knew what was up and did their jobs well.
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#69 Aug 31 2013 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
1,556 posts
This topic always comes up in MMORPGs that take a 'classic' approach. Always pits the 3 roles against each other.

Many of us have played all 3 roles and seen our fair share of x role doing y poorly. Tanks get noticed because there's only one of them, they're the focus of the mob's attention (and the group's), and are expected to know everything. Healers get it when someone dies (even if it isn't their fault). DDs get it just for being DDs.

If you wanted to know if I've played with any bad tanks so far, sure. How about bad healers? Sure. How about bad DDs? Of course. But we've always managed to get through whatever we were doing.

You may not like it but bad attitudes on any role can ruin the entire group: certainly not limited to tanks.

Edited, Aug 31st 2013 8:30pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#70 Aug 31 2013 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
8 posts a player with a little over a decade of tanking experience in various games, I can tell you that typically, if I am rude to you, it's because you have completely and utterly exceeded my amount of patience with you. Though that hasn't happened to me in quite some time, and FFXIV is still too new for me to start getting frustrated with bads in general. Many people are younger, less experienced, and let's face it, people act about 130% more douchey on the internet, so many of these people may have reached their limits already.

Tanks always seem to get the short end of the stick, their job is to hold aggro right? So if they lose aggro it must be their fault, right? Yea, keep telling yourself that. Maybe, you're really unlucky with getting dbag tanks...but honestly, you might want to look at yourself too. Sometimes being a DPS means waiting a half a second to cast a spell or finish a combo, most people aren't well geared and I haven't seen a single piece of +enmity gear yet, so things are a little challenging for tanks if DPS wants to go balls to the wall on every mob. Provoke has kind've a long timer and shield lob can quickly drain TP causing your rotation to break down. I've encountered plenty of situations where provoke and shield lob won't even recover aggro, if this is happening I can almost guarantee that you're not watching the enmity meter (i.e. you're doing it wrong). Let a tank get into a rotation and everything should be fine...tanking in this game is pretty easy (so far) but I still feel like we have a shortage of recovery tools considering how easy it is for DPS to burst damage.

On that note...THIS GAME HAS A FREAKING ENMITY METER... In my honest opinion that is there more for DPS than tanks (atleast until you get into OT situations). Learn to use it, and teach others to use it.
#71 Aug 31 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Default
763 posts
I am a LV27 GLA (and the main reason why is the dreaded 1017 error, and not the time to play).

Anyway, when I tank during an instanced battle, I do my damnest to try and get the most hate I can. Every provoke, every flash, and eating food which helps with skills have made our instanced battle runs go smoothly. Have I died? Sure. Because I overwork myself trying to get the adds attention as well. lol

I'd rather have the healer ****** he can't keep up, rather than me not doing my job. lol

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