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Latency e Raid performance - being Top DPSFollow

#1 Sep 02 2013 at 3:03 AM Rating: Default
7 posts
PLEASE if you think this is "useless" or if you think dmg meters/parsers or improving your DPS/Healing is useless. DO NOT POST, i really dont want to turn this into a discussion about min/max being a "elitist" thing and that hardcore raiders should die....

Hi,


ATM I am unable to buy xiv due to halt in sales, but I have been reading and watching streams in the last days.

Something I have been wondering:

This happens in many other MMOs but WoW its the best case example.

Link: http://wowhats.wordpress.com/2010/03/07/lag-and-world-of-warcraft/

I will paste the important part:

Quote:
The /stopcasting story

As we have seen, the client and server are separated by a time delay (“lag”), which can only be measured by timing how long it takes for a packet of data to travel from the client, to the server, and back again. This is the “latency” figure reported in WoW. This figure is significant because many actions depend on the client asking the server to do something (like cast a spell), the server receiving and confirming the instruction, and then both client and server beginning the action. When the server completes the action, it lets the client know and – prior to patch 2.3 - the client would then and only then enable the sending of more instructions to the server. Before that the player would just have to sit and watch their cast bar fill up.

So prior to patch 2.3, a spellcasting timeline for a spell that takes 2 seconds to cast (2000ms) would look like this, assuming 0 reaction time and 200ms latency:

[img]http://wowhats.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/clientservercasting.png[/img]

As you can see, with this model, a player’s full lag is inserted before every new spell cast. A 2-second cast with 200ms latency was effectively a 2.2-second cast.

However, cunning players realised that if they told the client to stop their spellcast after the point where that instruction would no longer reach the server in time to actually stop the cast, they could then make sure that the instruction to cast the next spell reached the server as soon as possible. This was risky but if you could pull it off it eliminated the effect of latency.

[img]http://wowhats.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/clientservercasting-stop.png[/img]

So you (hopefully) see, under this model people were saving time by “tricking” the client and server into behaviour that contradicted each other. After the initial cast (where latency could not be entirely eliminated), in theory it was possible to make the server chain-cast – at the risk of accidentally cancelling your spells if you timed it wrongly. Obviously this was all a bit ticklish and unpleasant.




NOW, in Realm Reborn most spells are not even longer than the GCD, which makes this pointless.

However, end game spells have cast times of 3.5 as is the case of Thunder III.

I HAVE READ in some places people saying "you can move before the spells finish and it still goes off" which means RR doesnt have a dynamic spell system, like WoW implemented in patch 2.3:

Quote:
Patch 2.3 and the spell queue

In patch 2.3, a system was added whereby the client would no longer ever prevent the player from sending new casting instructions to the server (except for during a “hard” 1000ms lock after each cast is begun). Instead, you can send the instructions at any time and, if there is not much time left on the spell cast, the server will “queue” the next instruction instead of rejecting it. This duplicates the behaviour of the stopcasting macros without requiring the same sort of split-second precision timing and without any of the risk.

Nowadays, if you are half way through a spell and you press the button to cast another spell, you won’t get the “Another action is in progress” message until after the client has sent the instruction to the server and the server has said “hold on yet, I’m not finished!“. And if the spell you are casting is nearly complete when you press the button (the window of opportunity is thought to be about 300ms) then the server will say “thanks, I’ll cast that next” and the client will not give you an error at all.

So using the spell queue it is in theory possible to eliminate most of the effects of “network“ latency. We’ll talk about exactly how that works in part three, where we’ll also deal with the issue of reaction times.



IN THIS CASE ! we have a wonderful way to increase DPS (or Healing... which I never do :P) significantly!

Now, I did a little research and could not find a cancel cast macro command in RR... which sucks... but is something we can work around.
If this is the case (not having a macro) then I will use keyboard macro programs to issue a W command before each cast, which works the same way. OR DO IT MANUALLY, which would be a pain in the a** but doable nonetheless.

NOW, can someone CONFIRM that you can MOVE before the cast bar reachs completion and STILL gets the spell to fire off? A lvl 50 THM would be able to test this easily!

"If you're using a controller, the triangle button is actually used to cancel actions."
using a controller maybe an option

EDIT

I will paste this here, since a lot of people might say this is trivial:

it might not seem like a big difference but it is.

when I played wow, using this stuff would while lvling would make a mob go down 40% faster...

also, watch this, might make you change your mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgDjG_0ecTI

ALSO take into account HASTE which lowers your gcd = more dps, the amount of haste to lower 0.2 is huge...

removing a 0.2 of 3.5 casting just be using a macro is quite a lot of dps



Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 5:05am by Katriss

Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 5:46am by Katriss

Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 5:53am by Katriss

Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 5:58am by Katriss
#2 Sep 02 2013 at 3:35 AM Rating: Good
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I have not experienced any latency what so ever really. Most stuttering is due to graphic cards,

That all said. Latency in this game, even if it were 200ms is neglible.

If the diffirence between Living and Dying would ever be dependant on a 0.2 second (it's hard to grasp just how tiny that is) delay on curing, then you're doing something wrong and you should probably reorganize your party or find another opponent to fight.

And if you're talking about a Damage Dealer's aspect... that latency is even more rediculous. I really hope FFXIV doesnt devolve into such a game where, despite auto attack and what not, you would get looked at funny if all your skills were released 0.2 seconds after you intended to use them. That's not 0.2 seconds longer each time, since you still mash the button whenever your timer is ready, it just moves up all the abilities you use by 0.2 seconds down the line. So even in a 5 minute battle, at most you'll be doing 5 minutes and 0.2 seconds worse than the next person. And even -IF- it build up over time, it doesnt, but even if it did, asuming abilities have a 3 second recast... 200ms latency adds 15% to the total time, so your 5 minute battle wouldnt conclude till 5 minutes and 45 seconds. But it doesnt...

Your input is the same, your activation timer starts when you click it and your recast stays the same, it's just that your character doesnt start his ability till 0.2 seconds after he should. And since your ability is simply ready after the two seconds you clicked it, you can instantly push out a new ability.

And that's all asuming there's such a latency. Which, again, i have not experienced.

Really, not worried about this in even the slightest...
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#3 Sep 02 2013 at 3:45 AM Rating: Default
7 posts
KojiroSoma wrote:
I have not experienced any latency what so ever really. Most stuttering is due to graphic cards,

That all said. Latency in this game, even if it were 200ms is neglible.

If the diffirence between Living and Dying would ever be dependant on a 0.2 second (it's hard to grasp just how tiny that is) delay on curing, then you're doing something wrong and you should probably reorganize your party or find another opponent to fight.

And if you're talking about a Damage Dealer's aspect... that latency is even more rediculous. I really hope FFXIV doesnt devolve into such a game where, despite auto attack and what not, you would get looked at funny if all your skills were released 0.2 seconds after you intended to use them. That's not 0.2 seconds longer each time, since you still mash the button whenever your timer is ready, it just moves up all the abilities you use by 0.2 seconds down the line. So even in a 5 minute battle, at most you'll be doing 5 minutes and 0.2 seconds worse than the next person. And even -IF- it build up over time, it doesnt, but even if it did, asuming abilities have a 3 second recast... 200ms latency adds 15% to the total time, so your 5 minute battle wouldnt conclude till 5 minutes and 45 seconds. But it doesnt...

Your input is the same, your activation timer starts when you click it and your recast stays the same, it's just that your character doesnt start his ability till 0.2 seconds after he should. And since your ability is simply ready after the two seconds you clicked it, you can instantly push out a new ability.

And that's all asuming there's such a latency. Which, again, i have not experienced.

Really, not worried about this in even the slightest...





it might not seem like a big difference but it is.

when I played wow, using this stuff would while lvling would make a mob go down 40% faster...

also, watch this, might make you change your mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgDjG_0ecTI


#4 Sep 02 2013 at 4:46 AM Rating: Default
7 posts
Katriss wrote:
KojiroSoma wrote:
I have not experienced any latency what so ever really. Most stuttering is due to graphic cards,

That all said. Latency in this game, even if it were 200ms is neglible.

If the diffirence between Living and Dying would ever be dependant on a 0.2 second (it's hard to grasp just how tiny that is) delay on curing, then you're doing something wrong and you should probably reorganize your party or find another opponent to fight.

And if you're talking about a Damage Dealer's aspect... that latency is even more rediculous. I really hope FFXIV doesnt devolve into such a game where, despite auto attack and what not, you would get looked at funny if all your skills were released 0.2 seconds after you intended to use them. That's not 0.2 seconds longer each time, since you still mash the button whenever your timer is ready, it just moves up all the abilities you use by 0.2 seconds down the line. So even in a 5 minute battle, at most you'll be doing 5 minutes and 0.2 seconds worse than the next person. And even -IF- it build up over time, it doesnt, but even if it did, asuming abilities have a 3 second recast... 200ms latency adds 15% to the total time, so your 5 minute battle wouldnt conclude till 5 minutes and 45 seconds. But it doesnt...

Your input is the same, your activation timer starts when you click it and your recast stays the same, it's just that your character doesnt start his ability till 0.2 seconds after he should. And since your ability is simply ready after the two seconds you clicked it, you can instantly push out a new ability.

And that's all asuming there's such a latency. Which, again, i have not experienced.

Really, not worried about this in even the slightest...





it might not seem like a big difference but it is.

when I played wow, using this stuff would while lvling would make a mob go down 40% faster...

also, watch this, might make you change your mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgDjG_0ecTI





visual example:

player with lag between casts - - - - - - - - - -
player with stopcasting macro -------------------


who do you think is doing more dps?
#5 Sep 02 2013 at 5:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Katriss wrote:
Katriss wrote:
KojiroSoma wrote:
I have not experienced any latency what so ever really. Most stuttering is due to graphic cards,

That all said. Latency in this game, even if it were 200ms is neglible.

If the diffirence between Living and Dying would ever be dependant on a 0.2 second (it's hard to grasp just how tiny that is) delay on curing, then you're doing something wrong and you should probably reorganize your party or find another opponent to fight.

And if you're talking about a Damage Dealer's aspect... that latency is even more rediculous. I really hope FFXIV doesnt devolve into such a game where, despite auto attack and what not, you would get looked at funny if all your skills were released 0.2 seconds after you intended to use them. That's not 0.2 seconds longer each time, since you still mash the button whenever your timer is ready, it just moves up all the abilities you use by 0.2 seconds down the line. So even in a 5 minute battle, at most you'll be doing 5 minutes and 0.2 seconds worse than the next person. And even -IF- it build up over time, it doesnt, but even if it did, asuming abilities have a 3 second recast... 200ms latency adds 15% to the total time, so your 5 minute battle wouldnt conclude till 5 minutes and 45 seconds. But it doesnt...

Your input is the same, your activation timer starts when you click it and your recast stays the same, it's just that your character doesnt start his ability till 0.2 seconds after he should. And since your ability is simply ready after the two seconds you clicked it, you can instantly push out a new ability.

And that's all asuming there's such a latency. Which, again, i have not experienced.

Really, not worried about this in even the slightest...





it might not seem like a big difference but it is.

when I played wow, using this stuff would while lvling would make a mob go down 40% faster...

also, watch this, might make you change your mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgDjG_0ecTI





visual example:

player with lag between casts - - - - - - - - - -
player with stopcasting macro -------------------


who do you think is doing more dps?

Perhaps, but wouldnt it rather be:


(No Latency) Button input:
0[- - - - - - - - - - - - -]20
(No Latency) Result:
0[- - - - - - - - - - - - -]20

(With Latency) Button input:
0[- - - - - - - - - - - - -]20
(With Latency) Result:
0[ - - - - - - - - - - - - -]20.2

It's hard to imagine the server not only delays your input, but also following that, waits for the delayed action to finish before it lets you go again. Everything just starts 200ms later.
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#6 Sep 02 2013 at 5:12 AM Rating: Good
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Perhaps, but wouldnt it rather be:


(No Latency) Button input:
0[- - - - - - - - - - - - -]20
(No Latency) Result:
0[- - - - - - - - - - - - -]20

(With Latency) Button input:
0[- - - - - - - - - - - - -]20
(With Latency) Result:
0[ - - - - - - - - - - - - -]20.2

It's hard to imagine the server not only delays your input, but also following that, waits for the delayed action to finish before it lets you go again. Everything just starts 200ms later.


Your increase would be inversely proportional to how fast the casting time of your spell is. Long casting time spells would see less of an increase. Short casting time spells would see more of an increase.

If your spell takes 20 seconds to cast, obviously 20.2 seconds is going to be a smaller percent (about 1%). But what about a 1 or 2 second casting spell? THat's going to be 10-20% increase.
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#7 Sep 02 2013 at 5:33 AM Rating: Default
7 posts
KojiroSoma wrote:
Katriss wrote:
Katriss wrote:
KojiroSoma wrote:
I have not experienced any latency what so ever really. Most stuttering is due to graphic cards,

That all said. Latency in this game, even if it were 200ms is neglible.

If the diffirence between Living and Dying would ever be dependant on a 0.2 second (it's hard to grasp just how tiny that is) delay on curing, then you're doing something wrong and you should probably reorganize your party or find another opponent to fight.

And if you're talking about a Damage Dealer's aspect... that latency is even more rediculous. I really hope FFXIV doesnt devolve into such a game where, despite auto attack and what not, you would get looked at funny if all your skills were released 0.2 seconds after you intended to use them. That's not 0.2 seconds longer each time, since you still mash the button whenever your timer is ready, it just moves up all the abilities you use by 0.2 seconds down the line. So even in a 5 minute battle, at most you'll be doing 5 minutes and 0.2 seconds worse than the next person. And even -IF- it build up over time, it doesnt, but even if it did, asuming abilities have a 3 second recast... 200ms latency adds 15% to the total time, so your 5 minute battle wouldnt conclude till 5 minutes and 45 seconds. But it doesnt...

Your input is the same, your activation timer starts when you click it and your recast stays the same, it's just that your character doesnt start his ability till 0.2 seconds after he should. And since your ability is simply ready after the two seconds you clicked it, you can instantly push out a new ability.

And that's all asuming there's such a latency. Which, again, i have not experienced.

Really, not worried about this in even the slightest...





it might not seem like a big difference but it is.

when I played wow, using this stuff would while lvling would make a mob go down 40% faster...

also, watch this, might make you change your mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgDjG_0ecTI





visual example:

player with lag between casts - - - - - - - - - -
player with stopcasting macro -------------------


who do you think is doing more dps?

Perhaps, but wouldnt it rather be:


(No Latency) Button input:
0[- - - - - - - - - - - - -]20
(No Latency) Result:
0[- - - - - - - - - - - - -]20

(With Latency) Button input:
0[- - - - - - - - - - - - -]20
(With Latency) Result:
0[ - - - - - - - - - - - - -]20.2

It's hard to imagine the server not only delays your input, but also following that, waits for the delayed action to finish before it lets you go again. Everything just starts 200ms later.



yes, but a fight doesnt happen like that during the whole boss fight

if you have to stop casting for whatever reason and then restart for example
player 1 got 5 spells in, with 10 ms latency
player 2 got 4 spells in, with 250 ms latency

then you have to move

and start again
5 in
4 in

then move
and so on
overall, player 1 gets more spell in then player 2


now, lets also factor in instant casts between the long casts
it also breaks things up
since it take GCD into account, which is like "stopping to move" because your char is locked during the period...

yes you are right, a player with 50ms or lower should not notice a big difference

however... servers are in Canada, not everyone has 50 ms

Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 7:34am by Katriss
#8 Sep 02 2013 at 5:37 AM Rating: Default
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here another explanation:

Quote:
That's what I meant. More spells in the same time frame. Higher DPS. It's "like casting faster" when you look at the big picture.
Only from the client's POV, which is essentially irrelevant, as the actual game world calculations and event processing occur in serverland.


From the server's POV, you're just spamming your spells back to back, the next one starting almost as soon as the previous one is complete. Casting a 3.0s spell every 3.0s does not violate game rules.

Without stopcasting, from the server's POV, you'd be casting a 3.0s spell, waiting half a second just standing there... doing nothing. Then you'd start your next 3.0s spell.

All you've done is mitigate the effect of network latency on your performance. Since network latency is an unpredictable, uncontrollable factor that occurs outside the game world as a result of limitations on the transmission medium, this is clearly not even remotely exploitative.

As several others have said, getting an ISP with a better latency (or being local to the game servers) or boosting graphic performance would yield similar performance increases for the same reasons as stopcasting - and having a better network link or video card is clearly not exploitative.

It's also worth noting that latency affects short-cast spells more than long-cast spells. If you're frostbolting, you'll incur 2xLatency every 2.5s. If you're fireball spamming, you'll incur 2xLatency every 3.0s.

That means 0.5s RTT would make your frostbolt a 3.0s cast spell and you lose 16.6% of your potential frostbolt dps. The same latency makes fireball 3.5s cast, meaning you only lose 14.2% of potential fireball dps to latency. This artificially biases the game toward longer cast spells the higher your latency is. And while it may be the case that the long-cast spells already tend to be higher dps than short, real-world network performance shouldn't necessitate the choice of long-cast over short-cast. If I want to scorch spam for mana efficiency, I should be able to do so without incurring a 25% damage penalty to latency just because I'm using a shorter cast spell.
#9 Sep 02 2013 at 6:01 AM Rating: Default
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also, something to take into account are spells that improve dps during a given time period.
You want to get as many spells inside the time frame as possible.
#10 Sep 02 2013 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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From what I can tell, you can queue spells already, but only towards the very end of the action refresh.
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#11 Sep 02 2013 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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I can agree with pushing for the best possible DPS, but this breaks down to only being useful on big bosses. FFXIV and FFXI were/are different beasts than WoW in terms of hate(enmity for wow? idk what it was called). At almost no point in time in FFXI is a tank ever fully capable of handling non-stop casting from any mage aside from small 30 sec windows. And anything that you could do this type of casting on w/o fear of hate moving off the tank, was better served with melee in the group instead because of the way haste and brd/cor buffs beefed up many different aspects of a melee's 'dps' output. Also because the monster moving off the tank would never deal enough damage to threaten or one-hit-kill any melee except for the occasional lolDRK.


So what you're really talking about is maximizing damage on boss types where you can gunarantee hate/enmity will stay on the tank, or in a situation/game where the tank's abilities + any other jobs that can assist in transferring hate to the tank outweigh the enmity generated by any damage dealer. Which is hard to do because of 2hour special job abilities and such. The moment the monster leaves the tank to come eat you, it moves and conical/directional attacks the monster has can easily wipe the floor on anyone who isn't up front with the tank. You lose control of the fight even if for a moment. If you take a hit and have to step back and re-cast a defensive spell or two, any headway you gained from your 0.2 sec increase you lose in that instant. If you die, you lose those gains too.


tl:dr, The moment you take a hit, even a single hit, and have to re-cast a defensive spell you lose almost all of those gains, damage-per-second based. The moment you die, you lose those gains. The moment the boss leaves the tank to chase you down and someone dies in the process, your DPS% may go up because you're sharing the boss's HP total with one less damage dealer, but you ruin the fight as a team effort and possibly lengthen it a bit. In FFXI the way enmity/hate was generated by dealing damage, tanks were under powered. Any melee could pull hate off a tank, if only for a moment or two, enough for the enemy to hit said melee. The same can be said for black mages/nukers. If FFXIV is anything similar, we will not see an enmity bias in favor of tanks.

And you can move before a spell bar finishes to 100%, and it will still cast. Gotta time it right, though.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 4:49pm by FenrirXIII
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#12 Sep 02 2013 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just a quick note regarding network latency.

200ms is an insane amount of latency on any connection. It's what you'd expect if you were in Australia trying to hit a server in England, or something.

Within the US, most folks with a good internet connection - cable, high quality dsl, etc - are going to see latency to north american servers in the realm of 20ms - 70ms. On a sattelite or other crappy connection, perhaps a bit higher.

From my business class internet connection in the midwest US, my latency to the Japanese world I play on runs around 120-140ms. This is reasonable for a transpac link.
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#13 Sep 02 2013 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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Another problem that I found while leveling conjurer is that the server will still interrupt a cast if you move at the end of the previous cast too quickly.

So let's say you cast something that takes 2.5 seconds, and then strafe off during the last 0.2 or 0.1 seconds of the cast. Your cast will fire off just fine, but if you try to cast something else in that window it will be interrupted by movement even if you are no longer moving (because the server thinks you were moving at the beginning of the spell). The worst part is you don't get to know whether or not you got it right until the END of the second spellcast, because that's when interrupts due to movement happen.

I'm not sure there's really a good answer to this other than precision timing and knowing exactly how much latency you have.
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#14 Sep 02 2013 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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It's a bit of a noob question, but how do I check my latency in FFXIV?
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#15 Sep 02 2013 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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FenrirXIII wrote:
I can agree with pushing for the best possible DPS, but this breaks down to only being useful on big bosses. FFXIV and FFXI were/are different beasts than WoW in terms of hate(enmity for wow? idk what it was called). At almost no point in time in FFXI is a tank ever fully capable of handling non-stop casting from any mage aside from small 30 sec windows. And anything that you could do this type of casting on w/o fear of hate moving off the tank, was better served with melee in the group instead because of the way haste and brd/cor buffs beefed up many different aspects of a melee's 'dps' output. Also because the monster moving off the tank would never deal enough damage to threaten or one-hit-kill any melee except for the occasional lolDRK.


So what you're really talking about is maximizing damage on boss types where you can gunarantee hate/enmity will stay on the tank, or in a situation/game where the tank's abilities + any other jobs that can assist in transferring hate to the tank outweigh the enmity generated by any damage dealer. Which is hard to do because of 2hour special job abilities and such. The moment the monster leaves the tank to come eat you, it moves and conical/directional attacks the monster has can easily wipe the floor on anyone who isn't up front with the tank. You lose control of the fight even if for a moment. If you take a hit and have to step back and re-cast a defensive spell or two, any headway you gained from your 0.2 sec increase you lose in that instant. If you die, you lose those gains too.


tl:dr, The moment you take a hit, even a single hit, and have to re-cast a defensive spell you lose almost all of those gains, damage-per-second based. The moment you die, you lose those gains. The moment the boss leaves the tank to chase you down and someone dies in the process, your DPS% may go up because you're sharing the boss's HP total with one less damage dealer, but you ruin the fight as a team effort and possibly lengthen it a bit. In FFXI the way enmity/hate was generated by dealing damage, tanks were under powered. Any melee could pull hate off a tank, if only for a moment or two, enough for the enemy to hit said melee. The same can be said for black mages/nukers. If FFXIV is anything similar, we will not see an enmity bias in favor of tanks.

And you can move before a spell bar finishes to 100%, and it will still cast. Gotta time it right, though.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 4:49pm by FenrirXIII


I have to second this. Nothing against WoW. I thoroughly enjoy playing it. But WoW tanking (from a threat generation standpoint) is much easier than FF. FF raid mechanics rely much more on party wide enmity control, a bursting dps (and healers) can easily peel mobs from tanks. (lolDRK is an excellent example of that....oh the memories :D ) Whereas in WoW, you rarely see it happen with anyone other than completely tweaked rogues. In fact prot pally threat generation is so easy I would often challenge guild mates to see if they could pull aggro off me on cleared bosses just for fun and bragging rights. I.E. In FF you will rarely face a situation where it would ever be feasible to max out your dps rotation in such a way while still hoping to have a successful raid.

In response to your initial question, yes you can pre-cast at about 97-98% casting bar completion. It does provide a significant increase in kill speed while leveling, but nothing close to 40%.

I'd also like to point out something I find to be a bit of a misnomer. The GCD is not 2.5 seconds. 2.5 seconds is the universal recast timer, but there is actually a hidden GCD, It is atleast 1.23 seconds, so I'm assuming it is about 1.5 seconds. You'll notice that when casting certain abilities such as buffs or items which aren't dependent on the shared skill cooldown, you will be unable to cast them following a skill (that does trigger the 2.5 shared recast) until the recast is slightly past 50% complete. With my current recast time of 2.47 seconds that means it is atleast 1.23 at the halfway mark, and I have to wait until slightly past that to use other abilities.
#16 Sep 02 2013 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
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There is a second reason for stop casting and that is for really long cast animations. There's a marauder ability that stuns at the beginning of a stupidly long animation. I always stopcast that by moving and I can immediately follow it up with a weapon skill that will land before the stun animation would normally have finished. This has been very beneficial in a few circumstances. So in reply to the op I can confirm benefit in doing this.
#17 Sep 02 2013 at 8:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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FenrirXIII wrote:
If FFXIV is anything similar, we will not see an enmity bias in favor of tanks.


Thankfully, FFXIV's hate system is absolutely nothing like FFXI's because FFXIV's is actually functional. There's no decaying threat, no hard cap, and no needing to deal with CE/VE halves. Abyssea did one thing right in that it showed how utterly stupid and flawed the threat system has been in FFXI and even the developers couldn't hide and ignore it anymore at that point.

FFXIV has a very basic threat system like most sensible systems are.

1 damage = 1 threat.

1 healing = 0.5 threat. All healing, including overhealing, is considered threat by the game's rules (whereas it isn't in most other MMOs including FFXI). Healing is also spread out amongst all targets. A 1,000 Cure II with five enemies only generates 100 threat amongst all targets.

No decaying threat at all.

Tomahawk/Shield Lob and Skull Sunder/Savage Blade have 200% enmity bonus (3x). Butcher's Block/Rage of Halone has a 400% enmity bonus (5x). Shield Oath/Defiance increases all threat done by 100% (2x) and is applied after the ability's innate rules. Overpower has a 200% bonus (3x) modifier. Flash has a scaling amount of hate based upon the weapon damage, your STR, and your DTR.

(i.e. Rage of Halone's 200 damage with shield oath is 2,000 threat (5x innate and 2x of that for Shield Oath = 10x). Without Shield Oath it's 1,000 threat.)

Tanking threat isn't absurdly easy, especially in multi-monster scenarios, but it's not completely ridiculous either. Unless there are throat stab mechanics (or certain bosses are immune to Provoke) damage classes don't have to worry so much about pulling hate but managing their resources.

@OP

I understand where you're coming from, but the way FFXIV is designed and the fact that there are very minute animation locks on casting/abilities it simply won't matter.

Pickins wrote:
It's a bit of a noob question, but how do I check my latency in FFXIV?


You can't.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 10:29pm by Viertel
#18 Sep 03 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Uh, healing in FFXI could definitely pull away hate from the tank. It especially became a problem after enmity adjustments last spring. Cure IV was notorious for having issues with over healing.
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