Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

An actual gameplay questionFollow

#1 Sep 02 2013 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
334 posts
I am currently 31 BLM and soon I will be getting my T3 Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder spells. Just looking at this from an efficiency standpoint, clearly the T3 spells do less dmg per mp. They also happen to have a casting time longer than the GCD. But obviously they have the benefit of providing a full stack of their respective buff and they do more damage per cast.

So my question is, what have you guys found to be more effective? Spam Fire 1 due to mp efficiency (1.52 potency/mp vs 1.33 potency/mp) or cast Fire 3 because it has seemingly higher dps (63.4 potency/sec vs. 60.5 potency/sec)?

Another thing: Fire3 has a cast time of 3.47s and a recast of 2.48. Is the recast time the cooldown for the spell or the time it takes to cast the 2nd Fire3 of a chain? Because if it's the latter it pushes Fire3 up to 88.7 potency/sec.

Just trying to nail down the mechanics of maximizing my output. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

(Also- please forgive me if this has already been discussed in another thread. I didn't see one a midst the gazillion server-fail threads so I figured I'd just ask.)
____________________________
BlueLand wrote:
You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
#2 Sep 02 2013 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
334 posts
Also, I just realized something really funny. Kids always say "when will I ever use math in my real life for something I care about?" Well, I just used simple ratios to begin a discussion on DPS in a video game. Obviously their are additional factors, but the ratios are a nice place to start. The guys who write the code for calculating things like battle damage in video games make ****-tons of money. Math is actually useful kids, but only if you're willing to spend the time learning how to use it... ;)
____________________________
BlueLand wrote:
You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
#3 Sep 02 2013 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
****
8,779 posts
From what I've seen so far...you're a BLM! Who cares about efficiency. You've got Umbral Ice.

I think it ultimately comes down to hate management and the needs of the moment. If your tank has aggro then I say go all out.
____________________________
Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#4 Sep 02 2013 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,166 posts
probably a bit early to be asking these kinds of question due to myriad factors we don't yet know* but if all things are equal besides documented differences (potency/cast time/recast/buffs) this is an encounter/mobility based question.

can you stand still and chain cast for long periods? fire 3 once to buff up, then fire 1 for efficiency
do you have to move routinely or does the foe go immune/invincible? fire 3 only for damage spikes
do you have to move constantly(meaning can't handle longer cast time of 3)? fire 1 for shorter cast time

* we don't yet KNOW the damage formulas are the same for the different tiers(fire 3 could get a bigger boost from INT, not noticeable until you get to very high end gear), we also don't know about damage caps. fire 1 could have a lower one that you haven't reached yet
____________________________
"A women almost bit off her husband's ***** while he was making pancakes in the morning." ~ Lewis black-Anticipation

A Complete History Of The Soviet Union Through The Eyes Of A Humble Worker, Arranged To The Melody Of Tetris~~http://bit.ly/aPlx8C

Miklar Lorent ~ http://odinseinherjar.guildwork.com/
#5 Sep 02 2013 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
334 posts
Quor wrote:
From what I've seen so far...you're a BLM! Who cares about efficiency. You've got Umbral Ice.

I think it ultimately comes down to hate management and the needs of the moment. If your tank has aggro then I say go all out.


Thanks for the reply. That's kind of what I was thinking, but my bother says on his legacy server he see's the BLM's spamming T1 Fire, which made me wonder.

ChaChaJaJa wrote:
Another thing: Fire3 has a cast time of 3.47s and a recast of 2.48. Is the recast time the cooldown for the spell or the time it takes to cast the 2nd Fire3 of a chain? Because if it's the latter it pushes Fire3 up to 88.7 potency/sec


Any idea about this?
____________________________
BlueLand wrote:
You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
#6 Sep 02 2013 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
334 posts
sscearcev wrote:
probably a bit early to be asking these kinds of question due to myriad factors we don't yet know* but if all things are equal besides documented differences (potency/cast time/recast/buffs) this is an encounter/mobility based question.

can you stand still and chain cast for long periods? fire 3 once to buff up, then fire 1 for efficiency
do you have to move routinely or does the foe go immune/invincible? fire 3 only for damage spikes
do you have to move constantly(meaning can't handle longer cast time of 3)? fire 1 for shorter cast time

* we don't yet KNOW the damage formulas are the same for the different tiers(fire 3 could get a bigger boost from INT, not noticeable until you get to very high end gear), we also don't know about damage caps. fire 1 could have a lower one that you haven't reached yet


All excellent points. I just found it odd that what my brother has mentioned (see below) seemed counter-intuitive and i was wondering if there was something to it.

ChaChaJaJa wrote:
... but my bother says on his legacy server he see's the BLM's spamming T1 Fire, which made me wonder.
____________________________
BlueLand wrote:
You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
#7 Sep 02 2013 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,166 posts
ChaChaJaJa wrote:

All excellent points. I just found it odd that what my brother has mentioned (see below) seemed counter-intuitive and i was wondering if there was something to it.


yeah, most games prevent that through the caps i mentioned, since that's more obvious to a player base. if fire 1 is in fact much more efficient in actual use, expect a patch. Higher level abilities aren't supposed to be downgrades. and if the devs start to see an extremely reduced usage rate for the t3 spell they'll change something.

Smiley: slyactually I hope it is as your brother mentioned. will be a good test case on how the dev team is going to handle balance issues. The player base hasn't experimented enough yet to really expose any screwups

Edited, Sep 2nd 2013 6:35pm by sscearcev
____________________________
"A women almost bit off her husband's ***** while he was making pancakes in the morning." ~ Lewis black-Anticipation

A Complete History Of The Soviet Union Through The Eyes Of A Humble Worker, Arranged To The Melody Of Tetris~~http://bit.ly/aPlx8C

Miklar Lorent ~ http://odinseinherjar.guildwork.com/
#8 Sep 02 2013 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
4,150 posts
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
Also, I just realized something really funny. Kids always say "when will I ever use math in my real life for something I care about?" Well, I just used simple ratios to begin a discussion on DPS in a video game. Obviously their are additional factors, but the ratios are a nice place to start. The guys who write the code for calculating things like battle damage in video games make sh*t-tons of money. Math is actually useful kids, but only if you're willing to spend the time learning how to use it... ;)

I work as a shift manager in a grocery store, and we get SO MANY teenage cashiers that can't do math without the help of the cash register, adding machine, or their smartphone. The looks on their faces when I'm able to calculate change in my head is priceless.

Granted, calculating DPS and such is a bit more complicated, but I do agree that math is incredibly useful.
____________________________
FFXI-Garuda 2003-2009; Lakshmi 2011-8/20/13 (retired)
FFXIV: ARR - Ghost Bear, Balmung server
#9 Sep 03 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
***
3,178 posts
To maximize BLM DMG output I've been taught the following things:

The basics:

Cast Fire I until your MP is low, then cast Transpose, then cast Blizzard I until your MP fills back up. Then cast Transpose and go back to Fire I.

The more advanced:

When switching back to Fire from Blizzard, cast a single Fire III, which will give you maximum Astral Fire stacks and then cast Fire I until you are out of mana again.

Put some DoT into the mix:


Starting of the battle with a single Thunder II and Aero II will put Damage over Time effects on your enemy. You only need to do this to enemies that have enough HP for this to take full effect - large enemies you will battle for awhile. During the battle watch your Thunder I icon for the special effect to go off, when you see Thunder I have a yellow outline, it is ready to be a cast for Bonus Damage.

So the basic rotation Fire I > Transpose > Blizzard I (until mana refills) followed by Transpose > Fire II > Fire I will get you through most battles. Throw in Thunder II and Aero II for boss battles:

I don't have Flare yet so I have no idea how that will get into the mix. One thing I'm sure of , understanding how Transpose works is critical to maximizing damage at lower levels.





Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:20am by Gnu
#10 Sep 03 2013 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,550 posts
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
Quor wrote:
From what I've seen so far...you're a BLM! Who cares about efficiency. You've got Umbral Ice.

I think it ultimately comes down to hate management and the needs of the moment. If your tank has aggro then I say go all out.


Thanks for the reply. That's kind of what I was thinking, but my bother says on his legacy server he see's the BLM's spamming T1 Fire, which made me wonder.

ChaChaJaJa wrote:
Another thing: Fire3 has a cast time of 3.47s and a recast of 2.48. Is the recast time the cooldown for the spell or the time it takes to cast the 2nd Fire3 of a chain? Because if it's the latter it pushes Fire3 up to 88.7 potency/sec


Any idea about this?


They are spamming Fire I due to an efficiency trait Firestarter that you get at lvl 44. This gives a 40% chance that whenever you cast Fire I (and maybe other spells) that you can get an instant cast, free Fire III spell. I've chained a Fire I (for 200) into a Fire III for 500, then used the Firestarter's Fire III for 800, making nearly 1500 dmg in a period of about 4 seconds. Those are my spikes. And if I have transmuted a Blizzard over to an Astral Fire I beforehand, it sometimes goes higher.

Dont lead with Fire 3. Wastes too much time. I go Lethargy, then Fire I, Fire III, check for Firestarter (and cast), then Fire III, then Transmute, Blizzard I until I get mana again, then transmute, Fire I, Fire III (rinse and repeat)

But the only spamming you should be seeing is Blizzard II which you have to Spam in FATEs on a PS3 because that is the only was you can hit anything (since you can't even see or target the enemy due to the lag)



Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:27am by Valkayree
____________________________
Character Name: Valk Ayree
Server: Lamia; Free Company Leader - The Swarm (Swarm)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1746889/
- Blue Mage? FTW? -
#11 Sep 03 2013 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
****
5,745 posts
sscearcev wrote:
if fire 1 is in fact much more efficient in actual use, expect a patch. Higher level abilities aren't supposed to be downgrades.

More efficient doesn't necessarily mean more powerful, and higher level abilities aren't necessarily supposed to completely displace lower level abilities. Unlike FFXI, this game features a much lower number of abilities per class/job. That tells me that the dev team is trying to make lower level abilities still useful and viable at higher levels.

Even in FFXI, they attempted to move in this direction with nukes. Tier 5 nukes are less efficient as far damage-per-cost, but deal damage more quickly if you look at damage-per-time. Tier 1 nukes are most efficient, but deal the least amount of damage given the amount of casting time.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 75 All times are in CST
BrokenFox, Anonymous Guests (74)