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Dex vs. Parry for non-tank non-ranged jobFollow

#1 Sep 02 2013 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
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I've been trying to figure out whether to add Dex or Parry to my gear. For item levels 15 to 29 you can only do level 1 materia, and my choices are between Dex +1 or Parry +2.

Apparently both of these stats increase your ability to block or parry, but I can't find any definitive answer for which one adds more specifically to block/parry.

I am not concerned with ranged attack, and since I am not a tank it doesn't seem like I will be blocking (shield) much but parrying (weapon deflection) seems like a good stat to have.

I am leaning toward using the Parry +2 since 2 Parry is probably better than 1 Dex, but I would be interested to know how 1 Parry stacks up to 1 Dex strictly for block/parry (maximum defensive).

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 12:30am by ErikHighwind
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#2 Sep 02 2013 at 11:10 PM Rating: Good
Well, if this game follows standard RPG mechanics, then 1 DEX = less than 1 Parry, so the Parry +2 would be better. That is strictly from a Parry standpoint; it doesn't include any other stats that DEX modifies.
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#3 Sep 02 2013 at 11:42 PM Rating: Excellent
To be honest if you not tanking, don't do ranged damage, and don't plan on pulling hate (which you shouldn't since your not a tank...) Why would you want either? Wouldn't STR/VIT/Critical/Determination/Skill Speed be better?
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#4 Sep 02 2013 at 11:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Although ignoring that I should say that you want to focus Parry > Dex > Str to maximize Parry effectiveness. Parry will increase your parry rate more then dex and STR inceases the damage prevented with parry. (as well as block)
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#5 Sep 03 2013 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist, both your posts are ranked Excellent and I daresay you fully deserve it!

To clarify, I will be adding materia to my HQ sunstone gear. So it already has max Skill Speed and STR. Crit would probably be next best, and I suppose Vitality would be good too, but I am thinking damage mitigation is a better way to go... my other option being Accuracy which I have strongly considered, but ultimately as with Vitality if the enemy can't damage me much then all those other stats pale in comparison.

Obviously as a non-tank it won't matter much for my block without a shield, but I'm thinking if I can max out STR and Parry it would most greatly improve my survivability.

I hadn't really considered Determination as I don't think it counts toward damage deflected by Parry, but rather attack only.

There is of course the oft overlooked consideration that a strong offense is a good defense, as a dead foe can't hurt you, but if I can deflect a lot of what they are doing and continue to wail on them with my regular stats that seems like the best tradeoff I think.

I'm open to further suggestions/discussion/corrections :)

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:28pm by ErikHighwind
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#6 Sep 03 2013 at 9:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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ErikHighwind wrote:
StateAlchemist, both your posts are ranked Excellent and I daresay you fully deserve it!

Nah, he's just a dirty cheating admin.
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#7 Sep 03 2013 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Raelix wrote:
ErikHighwind wrote:
StateAlchemist, both your posts are ranked Excellent and I daresay you fully deserve it!

Nah, he's just a dirty cheating admin.


Busted.

DEX/AGI in other MMOs also affects crit rate. Does it in FFXIV?

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:39pm by weran
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#8 Sep 03 2013 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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From your description, you're either a pug or a lnc. I've been doing a lot of parsing since release and I can say, pretty accurately, these are the stats to focus (some of these aren't on gear):

Crit chance: This stat will mean the largest different in dmg. I never saw my DPS raise as much as when I increased my crit. Currently I'm at around a 35% chance to crit, and I'm the top DPS nearly every time, while other DD's sit around 12%.
Determination: I don't have nearly enough data points on this, as it's hard to get the stat in any abundance, but I did parse with modest increases and noticed a larger difference than with str/dex. Sitting on about 240 determination now, while Dex and Crit are around 380, which may be the reason that the same about of determination gets a greater increase in performance than Dex.
Dex / Str / Dmg: It seems that dmg and dex or str are synonymous. A 20% increase in pure dmg increased by DPS by nearly the same amount as str / dex.

Things you shouldn't focus:
Parry: All three jobs can instantly increase their parry rate and defensive stats in a pinch to survive pulling hate. Aside from those "Oh Flip!" moments, you'r primary goal is to make things die quicker. Let other people focus on keeping you alive.
Dex / Str If you are melee, don't take Dex. If you are ranges, don't take str. They won't help.

Things NO ONE should focus:

Accuracy

As it stands, no one ever misses. EVER. 100% accuracy in every parse. I seems impossible to miss, and I think it's a glitch.


Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:40pm by Louiscool
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#9 Sep 03 2013 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
Louiscool wrote:
From your description, you're either a pug or a lnc. I've been doing a lot of parsing since release and I can say, pretty accurately, these are the stats to focus (some of these aren't on gear):

Crit chance: This stat will mean the largest different in dmg. I never saw my DPS raise as much as when I increased my crit. Currently I'm at around a 35% chance to crit, and I'm the top DPS nearly every time, while other DD's sit around 12%.
Determination: I don't have nearly enough data points on this, as it's hard to get the stat in any abundance, but I did parse with modest increases and noticed a larger difference than with str/dex. Sitting on about 240 determination now, while Dex and Crit are around 380, which may be the reason that the same about of determination gets a greater increase in performance than Dex.
Dex / Str / Dmg: It seems that dmg and dex or str are synonymous. A 20% increase in pure dmg increased by DPS by nearly the same amount as str / dex.

Things you shouldn't focus:
Parry: All three jobs can instantly increase their parry rate and defensive stats in a pinch to survive pulling hate. Aside from those "Oh Flip!" moments, you'r primary goal is to make things die quicker. Let other people focus on keeping you alive.
Dex / Str If you are melee, don't take Dex. If you are ranges, don't take str. They won't help.

Things NO ONE should focus:

Accuracy

As it stands, no one ever misses. EVER. 100% accuracy in every parse. I seems impossible to miss, and I think it's a glitch.


Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:40pm by Louiscool


Good info, thank you sir.

I would add, however, that I have noticed misses so far, on both auto-attack and on abilities. Nothing worse than missing that built up Full Thrust. Granted, I am lvl 35, so hopefully at lvl 50 that changes.
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Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#10 Sep 03 2013 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
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IKickYoDog wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
From your description, you're either a pug or a lnc. I've been doing a lot of parsing since release and I can say, pretty accurately, these are the stats to focus (some of these aren't on gear):

Crit chance: This stat will mean the largest different in dmg. I never saw my DPS raise as much as when I increased my crit. Currently I'm at around a 35% chance to crit, and I'm the top DPS nearly every time, while other DD's sit around 12%.
Determination: I don't have nearly enough data points on this, as it's hard to get the stat in any abundance, but I did parse with modest increases and noticed a larger difference than with str/dex. Sitting on about 240 determination now, while Dex and Crit are around 380, which may be the reason that the same about of determination gets a greater increase in performance than Dex.
Dex / Str / Dmg: It seems that dmg and dex or str are synonymous. A 20% increase in pure dmg increased by DPS by nearly the same amount as str / dex.

Things you shouldn't focus:
Parry: All three jobs can instantly increase their parry rate and defensive stats in a pinch to survive pulling hate. Aside from those "Oh Flip!" moments, you'r primary goal is to make things die quicker. Let other people focus on keeping you alive.
Dex / Str If you are melee, don't take Dex. If you are ranges, don't take str. They won't help.

Things NO ONE should focus:

Accuracy

As it stands, no one ever misses. EVER. 100% accuracy in every parse. I seems impossible to miss, and I think it's a glitch.


Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:40pm by Louiscool


Good info, thank you sir.

I would add, however, that I have noticed misses so far, on both auto-attack and on abilities. Nothing worse than missing that built up Full Thrust. Granted, I am lvl 35, so hopefully at lvl 50 that changes.


It's also perfectly possible that, for some reason, FFXIV-App isn't reading the misses, but I noticed this early on so I've been watching closely for any misses that the parser might have missed. The closest thing I've seen are full-resists on debuffs.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:46pm by Louiscool
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#11 Sep 03 2013 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
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Haha I did in fact miss once yesterday which prompted me to consider Accuracy. I suppose 1 in a million ain't bad. ;)

Yes, I am a Lancer... for now. Tried to take on Foulques as soon as I hit 30 to get the Soul of the Dragoon (yes I have PGL lvl 15), and things were going fine until he called in reinforcements.

4 on 1 got me thinking, I need more evade. Sure I can avoid the red areas and all, but they still nickel and dimed the tar out of me.

Anyroad, you have convinced me to go with Crit. Especially since I have the 20% Crit increase from PGL cross-job skill.
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#12 Sep 03 2013 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
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ErikHighwind wrote:
Haha I did in fact miss once yesterday which prompted me to consider Accuracy. I suppose 1 in a million ain't bad. ;)

Yes, I am a Lancer... for now. Tried to take on Foulques as soon as I hit 30 to get the Soul of the Dragoon (yes I have PGL lvl 15), and things were going fine until he called in reinforcements.

4 on 1 got me thinking, I need more evade. Sure I can avoid the red areas and all, but they still nickel and dimed the tar out of me.

Anyroad, you have convinced me to go with Crit. Especially since I have the 20% Crit increase from PGL cross-job skill.


That fight is very hard, and a bit uncharacteristic of your class's role. It's weird, most quests reinforce your role, but a few end up a bit odd.
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#13 Sep 03 2013 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
Beware on that one, because I don't think you can cross-class Pugilist skills on DRG. You can on LNC, but it's something to keep in mind.
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Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#14 Sep 03 2013 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
Louiscool wrote:
ErikHighwind wrote:
Haha I did in fact miss once yesterday which prompted me to consider Accuracy. I suppose 1 in a million ain't bad. ;)

Yes, I am a Lancer... for now. Tried to take on Foulques as soon as I hit 30 to get the Soul of the Dragoon (yes I have PGL lvl 15), and things were going fine until he called in reinforcements.

4 on 1 got me thinking, I need more evade. Sure I can avoid the red areas and all, but they still nickel and dimed the tar out of me.

Anyroad, you have convinced me to go with Crit. Especially since I have the 20% Crit increase from PGL cross-job skill.


That fight is very hard, and a bit uncharacteristic of your class's role. It's weird, most quests reinforce your role, but a few end up a bit odd.


I was able to knock that one out on the 2nd try. Spirit Surge, Hi Potion and Cure are your friends in that one. I basically would wait for him to AOE, run away, get 2 cures in, then kill.
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Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#15 Sep 03 2013 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
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I haven't done CNJ for cure yet either. I was considering it but I am anxious for my DRG :)
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#16 Sep 03 2013 at 9:53 PM Rating: Decent
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IKickYoDog wrote:
Nothing worse than missing that built up Full Thrust.


Ain't that the truth.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 11:53pm by weran
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#17 Sep 03 2013 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:
Beware on that one, because I don't think you can cross-class Pugilist skills on DRG. You can on LNC, but it's something to keep in mind.

Right, I have the job/class/skill matrix saved off. As a Goldsmith I can craft all the jewelry I want so I'm not too concerned about having different sets for LNC vs. DRG initially. Either way, I should have known Crit was the best choice based on Ywain's training. A Lancer's strength is in the ability to dispatch a foe with the quickness, not to play defense.
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#18 Sep 03 2013 at 9:59 PM Rating: Excellent
"Though he may wish it, a Lancer's spear will never be a shield."
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Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#19 Sep 04 2013 at 12:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Raelix wrote:
ErikHighwind wrote:
StateAlchemist, both your posts are ranked Excellent and I daresay you fully deserve it!

Nah, he's just a dirty cheating admin.


He wasn't always an admin. He almost single handedly kept this database up to date through around the first half of 1.0. He didn't get his excellent rating from being an admin. He got his admin status from his work as a non-admin on the site. His position and rating is well deserved.
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#20 Sep 04 2013 at 12:26 AM Rating: Decent
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ErikHighwind wrote:
Haha I did in fact miss once yesterday which prompted me to consider Accuracy. I suppose 1 in a million ain't bad. ;)

Yes, I am a Lancer... for now. Tried to take on Foulques as soon as I hit 30 to get the Soul of the Dragoon (yes I have PGL lvl 15), and things were going fine until he called in reinforcements.



I suggest to kite around that frost crap he shoots out at you and recover HP when needed like with potions or second wind. Kiting really helped me a lot in this fight. Kill the adds first. You should also know they changed the SJ to MAR, it's not PUG anymore. However, DRG only is able to use MAR and PUG abilities so all is not lost.

Edited, Sep 4th 2013 1:28am by ShadowedgeFFXI
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