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Welp, Gearscore has infected itFollow

#1 Sep 03 2013 at 2:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Not even a week into "official" release too. Already saw people in Mor Dhona advertising their ilvl and/or what ilvl they wanted minimum before invite. I died a bit inside.
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#2 Sep 03 2013 at 2:48 AM Rating: Decent
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In FFXI right now people have compiled lists of those who do not have good gear, and are not good players, shunning them from current end game content. Wanting people properly geared is not a new concept.
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#3 Sep 03 2013 at 2:52 AM Rating: Good
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I hope it won't turn out like current FFXI where you need Delve weapon before getting one. That and monetizing wins (selling party invites for 30 million gil anyone?).
#4 Sep 03 2013 at 2:55 AM Rating: Good
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I find the best strategy in these situations is to not run with random people. And if you do, then make sure you are the best informed out of any of them.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 4:56am by Magilicotti
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#5 Sep 03 2013 at 3:49 AM Rating: Good
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Get a free company > ignore these guys that act like pros or demand you to have x gear to play and play with your friends in FC > ???? > Profit

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:49am by MitArgento
#6 Sep 03 2013 at 4:05 AM Rating: Default
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Perhaps. SE will put in tiered end-game so that equipment score affects your ability to search for certain instances or have tougher enemies. That way, people who want to do that kind of thing won't have to impose their jack-assosity on everyone else.
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#7 Sep 03 2013 at 4:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Magilicotti wrote:
In FFXI right now people have compiled lists of those who do not have good gear, and are not good players, shunning them from current end game content. Wanting people properly geared is not a new concept.


FF11 has been around for nearly a decade.

FF14 ARR has been out, available to the public as a consumer item, for scarcely 7 days.

Yes, this kind of thing will happen. I simply loathe that it has happened before the free play time was even spent.
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#8 Sep 03 2013 at 4:22 AM Rating: Default
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Quor wrote:
Magilicotti wrote:
In FFXI right now people have compiled lists of those who do not have good gear, and are not good players, shunning them from current end game content. Wanting people properly geared is not a new concept.


FF11 has been around for nearly a decade.

FF14 ARR has been out, available to the public as a consumer item, for scarcely 7 days.

Yes, this kind of thing will happen. I simply loathe that it has happened before the free play time was even spent.


It's been around for over a decade. And MMO's have been for even longer. You may encounter those that want others properly geared to join them. You may encounter money (gil) sellers. You may encounter many things because the genre is what it is.
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#9Mopdaddy, Posted: Sep 03 2013 at 5:36 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why does this bother you? It has no effect on you yet you complain as if the world is collapsing... You would never have grouped with those people anyway yet you feel the need to complain about something that doesn't affect you. This has been around forever. You think I would take a naked fool to fight with me in EQ? No!
#10 Sep 03 2013 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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Shoo-shoo Mopdaddy. Back to EQ.
#11 Sep 03 2013 at 5:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Or you could play a healer class and be able to bypass jerks like that entirely Smiley: grin
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#12 Sep 03 2013 at 7:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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#13 Sep 03 2013 at 7:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Solonuke wrote:
I hope it won't turn out like current FFXI where you need Delve weapon before getting one. That and monetizing wins (selling party invites for 30 million gil anyone?).

Nope, too late. Already saw a shout for a paladin that needed to have an Ifrit's Weapon for the... dun dun dun... Ifrit Battle...
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#14 Sep 03 2013 at 7:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seriously? Makes me glad I'm with Kraken Club =)
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#15 Sep 03 2013 at 7:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Valkayree wrote:
Seriously? Makes me glad I'm with Kraken Club =)


New requirement to join Kraken Club: You must be a member of The Kraken Club.

As far as this other stuff goes, some people are just hilariously unreasonable. I remember the ICC patch in WoW, day 1 there were people trying to put PUGs together and demanded that potential members have the achievement for having completed the raid that just released that day. No, really.. this happened.

As for ilvl requirements, it's entirely too early to know what ilvl is reasonable for completing each tier of content. There's just no way to know, so making demands based on it isn't really practical right now. Once it IS known, then I'd expect PUGs to require it, and FCs to work around it.
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#16 Sep 03 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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So its a site that judges player's gear and aptitude, frequented and used as a tool by those who have complained about being "judged" all their lives.

Have fun with that.
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#17 Sep 03 2013 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Where do you see the ilvll? Maybe those guys where running the end game level 50 dungeons and wanted people with some decent gear, i hope those dungeons are super hard needing decent gear to make it run smoothly.
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#18 Sep 03 2013 at 8:07 AM Rating: Excellent
Gear score means nothing in FFXIV. Well maybe not 'nothing' but I will take a 'skilled' player over a 'geared' player anyday. ****, you think something can only be done with 'blah blah blah' gear level? Please let me get a PT of 8 naked people and show you how wrong you are. Might take a while though... ><
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#19 Sep 03 2013 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
Where do you see the ilvll? Maybe those guys where running the end game level 50 dungeons and wanted people with some decent gear, i hope those dungeons are super hard needing decent gear to make it run smoothly.


I dunno about this. Once this game goes the route of gear-gating content, I'll have to bow out. That is not to dismiss gear entirely, I mean at lvl 30, I might have issues wearing lvl10 gear. But if it boils down to you have to be this tall to play in this park, no thanks.
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#20 Sep 03 2013 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
Not even a week into "official" release too. Already saw people in Mor Dhona advertising their ilvl and/or what ilvl they wanted minimum before invite. I died a bit inside.


1) How else are you to know if someone can tackle the content? Seriously, they are like levels. You wouldn't invite a level 40 player to fight Ifrit.

2) It's only based on Weapon...

3) People are horribly geared coming out of the story. I don't blame anyone for this, as long as they themselves are appropriately geared. What was being advertised, anyway? 60 is the highest unless you have a relic, which is 70. It's a very simple system.

I've been parsing for my own betterment, and it brought to light HUGE gap in player contribution in the final fights and dungeons. For comparison, I am extremely well geared and averaged between 140 to 125 dps, while I've had a Monk who beat me in DPS (with normal weapons/gear while I have Ifrit's Bow and better than darklight armor) and another Monk who did 40 dps (n the same party) falling lower than the pld and war tanks in the fight. The worst was a BLM with 23 dps... It was all fine and dandy because it was the main story, but if these same people then try to fight Chimera right after....

I probably sound really elitist right now... but I would prefer not to carry dead weight through very hard content. It's hard enough without that, and it's definitely an important factor. As evidenced with the Monk, though, skill and situation are equally important. Monk on single target fights is godly, Bard with adds and aoe is equally godly.



Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:28am by Louiscool
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#21 Sep 03 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
, and it brought to light HUGE gap in player contribution in the final fights and dungeons. For comparison, I am extremely well geared and averaged between 140 to 125 dps, while I've had a Monk who beat me in DPS (with normal weapons/gear while I have Ifrit's Bow and better than darklight armor) and another Monk who did 40 dps (n the same party) falling lower than the pld and war tanks in the fight. The worst was a BLM with 23 dps... It was all fine and dandy because it was the main story, but if these same people then try to fight Chimera right after....
Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:28am by Louiscool


Sounds like you are parsing the wrong blm, or unaware tha the blm was probably trying to sleep the whole battle because some close range DD have problems with attacking things that the tank is not targeting. Stack your astrals right and get a few firestarters and you can easily 500 Fire III into a free instant 800 Fire III in a matter of 3 seconds.
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#22 Sep 03 2013 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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High level gear doesn't make you a better player. If a player has a high ilevel, it still doesn't show how he attained it. Whether they pulled their weight or were carried through and won a few rolls. It would further diminishes the credibility of ilevel when groups are willing to sell runs.

It's understandable that groups would want players are adequately equipped, which is fine, however sometimes the demands seem a little bit unreasonable.

Personally, I find it more entertaining to run with the average player rather than the elite player. It makes it more of a challenge. More "oh Sh**" situations where you think on your feet and react. You learn more about your class/job and its capabilities.
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#23 Sep 03 2013 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
Seriously? Makes me glad I'm with Kraken Club =)


New requirement to join Kraken Club: You must be a member of The Kraken Club.

As far as this other stuff goes, some people are just hilariously unreasonable. I remember the ICC patch in WoW, day 1 there were people trying to put PUGs together and demanded that potential members have the achievement for having completed the raid that just released that day. No, really.. this happened.

As for ilvl requirements, it's entirely too early to know what ilvl is reasonable for completing each tier of content. There's just no way to know, so making demands based on it isn't really practical right now. Once it IS known, then I'd expect PUGs to require it, and FCs to work around it.


PUGs have always been ridiculous with their player-demands. Most of the ones I see now, demand that you be an average ilvl, higher than that of the gear that drops in the raid. If I'm a 530 ilvl, why would I want to go PUG a 522 ilvl raid? What would I stand to gain? Most people don't go to PUGs for funsies.

Having said that, I don't mind having some form of a system to gauge a person's gear. Gear does seem to play a rather major role on a person's performance in this game. As long as demands don't get too out of hand, having a system like this is, honestly, a good thing.

I think people are just naturally afraid to be judged harshly. No one wants to be told that they're not good enough. Truth is, though, if your gear isn't very good, and you know it isn't very good, but yet you still expect to go to group events, you're essentially expecting to get carried by everyone else. That, to me, is worse than someone getting turned down because of below-par gear.

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#24 Sep 03 2013 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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MitArgento wrote:
Get a free company > ignore these guys that act like pros or demand you to have x gear to play and play with your friends in FC > ???? > Profit

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:49am by MitArgento




what if your friends.. although fun to play with suck horribly and cant get crap done?
#25Mopdaddy, Posted: Sep 03 2013 at 8:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What if hypothetical hypothetical hypothetical... Can't win at ever scenario.
#26 Sep 03 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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It is unfortunately the only real metric for grouping with people you don't know. Is it always accurate? **** no. Will a bad player still be bad even if he has good gear? **** yeah. There is, however, no way to tell if someone is actually good if you have never grouped with them - that is the nature of pickup groups. By looking at a gear score you can at least tell that they have put it the time ad effort into getting decent equipment. It is also worth noting that you could be the most skilled player on your server but it won't matter if you gear isn't good enough to deal/take/heal the damage you need.

Tl;dr gearscores are a necessary evil and if you don't like it don't use PUGs.
#27 Sep 03 2013 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
This stuff is ridiculous for PUGs, you want to join a LS like Bluegartr, then do that. Their demands are ridiculous, but it's advertised on their website and that's it. Gear proves nothing in these games cause much like XI, you don't actually know what the person did to obtain em. Blacklist is there, or just ignore them. You can min/max this game, but people who did naked primal runs in 1.0 proved stats are meh.
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#28 Sep 03 2013 at 8:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
Gear score means nothing in FFXIV. Well maybe not 'nothing' but I will take a 'skilled' player over a 'geared' player anyday. ****, you think something can only be done with 'blah blah blah' gear level? Please let me get a PT of 8 naked people and show you how wrong you are. Might take a while though... ><


Fights are going to be timed via certain mechanics. Some fights already are (see Titan). If the players in your group aren't up to par with their output, the whole group is going to fail. If gear was that meaningless, they might as well just give us all stat-less vanity gear to wear.

Gear at low-level doesn't matter. It doesn't offer enough stats to matter. I have seen the AF gear, though. The stats on the blue gear are massive.
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#29 Sep 03 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
, and it brought to light HUGE gap in player contribution in the final fights and dungeons. For comparison, I am extremely well geared and averaged between 140 to 125 dps, while I've had a Monk who beat me in DPS (with normal weapons/gear while I have Ifrit's Bow and better than darklight armor) and another Monk who did 40 dps (n the same party) falling lower than the pld and war tanks in the fight. The worst was a BLM with 23 dps... It was all fine and dandy because it was the main story, but if these same people then try to fight Chimera right after....
Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 10:28am by Louiscool


Sounds like you are parsing the wrong blm, or unaware tha the blm was probably trying to sleep the whole battle because some close range DD have problems with attacking things that the tank is not targeting. Stack your astrals right and get a few firestarters and you can easily 500 Fire III into a free instant 800 Fire III in a matter of 3 seconds.


This was a fight with very few adds. I really don't know what he was doing but he was out of mana often and I had to Ballad him half the fight. I was disappointed to realize that I really shouldn't have sacrificed 25% of my dmg to buff him though.

BLM is awesome, this one was afk?
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#30 Sep 03 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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You wouldn't invite a level 40 player to fight Ifrit.


No but apparently you can invite a Level 46 WHM in FFXI to run a Windurst Mission marathon and get Rank 10 after deleveling to 42 in the process no problem.

True story btw. ;)

But relating to FFXIV. I will state this now... if I know someone is a skilled player, I don't care if they want to run Ifrit in the reindeer outfit from 1.0. If I don't I might personally go over their gear to see what they have equipped what kind of materia they may/may not be using...however I am not going to rely EVER on some random number and judge someone by it.

Gear does NOT mean you are a better player. I have out parsed people in 1.0 as MNK and BLM while having inferior gear, because I had better timing/understanding of mechanics/understanding of my class skills/knowledge of mob abilities/etc/etc. And I am sure the same will still be the case for FFXIV.

That also doesn't mean that gear means nothing. Sometimes a fight comes along that becomes much easier with certain gear. In this situation, it is okay, imo, to say, "Hey you need this gear, bro. It will be way too rough without it..."
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#31 Sep 03 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
MitArgento wrote:
Get a free company > ignore these guys that act like pros or demand you to have x gear to play and play with your friends in FC > ???? > Profit

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:49am by MitArgento




what if your friends.. although fun to play with suck horribly and cant get crap done?



That is why there are Free Companies and then there are Linkshells / Friends Lists. You FC with people that have a similar capability and goal in mind, and play with your friends during off time. There is no rule that states you must be in a FC with your friends, unless you set that standard for yourself... in which case, you have made your bed.
#32 Sep 03 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
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You wouldn't invite a level 40 player to fight Ifrit.


No but apparently you can invite a Level 46 WHM in FFXI to run a Windurst Mission marathon and get Rank 10 after deleveling to 42 in the process no problem.

True story btw. ;)

But relating to FFXIV. I will state this now... if I know someone is a skilled player, I don't care if they want to run Ifrit in the reindeer outfit from 1.0. If I don't I might personally go over their gear to see what they have equipped what kind of materia they may/may not be using...however I am not going to rely EVER on some random number and judge someone by it.

Gear does NOT mean you are a better player. I have out parsed people in 1.0 as MNK and BLM while having inferior gear, because I had better timing/understanding of mechanics/understanding of my class skills/knowledge of mob abilities/etc/etc. And I am sure the same will still be the case for FFXIV.

That also doesn't mean that gear means nothing. Sometimes a fight comes along that becomes much easier with certain gear. In this situation, it is okay, imo, to say, "Hey you need this gear, bro. It will be way too rough without it..."


Totally agree. But this is exactly WHY people are using iLVL for pugs. The best advice in this thread is to make friends. Even if or your friends aren't well geared, communication and patience will win any fight over a fickle PUG that uses iLVL to judge if they are worthy of his or her time.
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#33 Sep 03 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
MitArgento wrote:
Get a free company > ignore these guys that act like pros or demand you to have x gear to play and play with your friends in FC > ???? > Profit

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:49am by MitArgento




what if your friends.. although fun to play with suck horribly and cant get crap done?

Then you teach them how to play better.
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#34 Sep 03 2013 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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The best advice in this thread is to make friends.


Exactly.
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#35 Sep 03 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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This type of stuff reminds of call of duty, "you must be prestige to join my clan". That's why I never prestiged and ninjaed on all them Smiley: nod
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#36 Sep 03 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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The only thing that drives me nuts is being told you need gear equipped that comes from the event you're trying to get gear from. So dumb.
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#37 Sep 03 2013 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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Teracide wrote:
I have seen the AF gear, though. The stats on the blue gear are massive.


You are correct sir. I can see them dwarfing everything for 10 levels at least.
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#38 Sep 03 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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What are PUGs? I dont hold people to there gear if we can win then there is no problem, with that being said i am a big crafter and enjoy makeing the best gear i can, i just hope ill be able to put it to use on end game dungeons, i would feel weird if you could complete all the level 50 dungeons with just gear from quests, so i do hope there is a need for great gear. I see what everyone is saying, i dont want it all to be judge by gear, but i also dont want a guy wearing potato sack doin the same dmg as me who spent along time makein some bad *** armor, some where in the middle would be nice!
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#39 Sep 03 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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IMFW wrote:
What are PUGs? I dont hold people to there gear if we can win then there is no problem, with that being said i am a big crafter and enjoy makeing the best gear i can, i just hope ill be able to put it to use on end game dungeons, i would feel weird if you could complete all the level 50 dungeons with just gear from quests, so i do hope there is a need for great gear. I see what everyone is saying, i dont want it all to be judge by gear, but i also dont want a guy wearing potato sack doin the same dmg as me who spent along time makein some bad *** armor, some where in the middle would be nice!


Pick up groups.
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#40 Sep 03 2013 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
What are PUGs?
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
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#41 Sep 03 2013 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Nice thanks for clearing that up!
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#42 Sep 03 2013 at 11:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
IMFW wrote:
What are PUGs?
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.


They don't serve your kind there.
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#43 Sep 03 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
The only thing that drives me nuts is being told you need gear equipped that comes from the event you're trying to get gear from. So dumb.


This. May the Delve problem never infect FFXIV.
#44 Sep 03 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Before any of this gets out of hand, there needs to be a server set aside for these elitist jerks so regular players who don't look, act, or play like Jenkins from South Park can play in relative peace.
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#45 Sep 03 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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AriesMCMLXXIII wrote:
Before any of this gets out of hand, there needs to be a server set aside for these elitist jerks so regular players who don't look, act, or play like Jenkins from South Park can play in relative peace.


These aren't elitists, these are idiots.
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svlyons wrote:
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#46 Sep 03 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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660 posts
Lefein wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
MitArgento wrote:
Get a free company > ignore these guys that act like pros or demand you to have x gear to play and play with your friends in FC > ???? > Profit

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 5:49am by MitArgento




what if your friends.. although fun to play with suck horribly and cant get crap done?

Then you teach them how to play better.


This is crazy talk. No one wants to put in the effort when its just easier to exclude them.
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#47 Sep 03 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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48,494 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
These aren't elitists, these are idiots.
Real elitists are in static groups.
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#48 Sep 03 2013 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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640 posts
LebargeX wrote:
The only thing that drives me nuts is being told you need gear equipped that comes from the event you're trying to get gear from. So dumb.


Which is where buying your wins comes in! You'll be able to get what you need if you have the money for it, watch other people do the job for you while you go AFK.

Aside from that, how do you calculate DPS in the game? I'm really hoping that buffing/debuffing, eating food and doing all the combos give much more DPS than someone who is circulating true thrust, vorpal thrust and full thrust.
#49 Sep 03 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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5,745 posts
AriesMCMLXXIII wrote:
Before any of this gets out of hand, there needs to be a server set aside for these elitist jerks so regular players who don't look, act, or play like Jenkins from South Park can play in relative peace.

And by competing amongst themselves, only the most elitist and jerkiest of the elitist jerks will survive, giving birth to the Sardaukar of elitist jerks.
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#50 Sep 03 2013 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who form an elitea select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality or worth, higher intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes—are those whose influence or authority is greater than that of others; whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities, or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.

The term elitism, or the title elitist, are sometimes used by people who are (or claim to be) not a member of an elite organization. In politics, the terms are often used to describe people as being out of touch with the average Joe. The implication is that the alleged elitist person or group thinks they are better than everyone else; and, therefore, put themselves before others. It could be seen as a synonym for snob. An elitist is not always seen as truly elite, but only privileged. The definition may have different appreciations depending of the political contexts. Since elitism may be viewed as something necessary for creating patterns of good intellectual or professional performance, it can be used also for maintaining conditions of lack of competition and privilege.


A wise person, seeking self-improvement, would seek out and cherish the advice of the truly elite. It is one thing to be a ****, it is another to be so **** good that people would do well to learn from you. If you can tell the difference, then you are one step closer to being my friend.
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#51 Sep 03 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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249 posts
Saw a dude on excalibur yesterday shouting for a pug garuda hard-mode, get this though: only experienced need apply. I shouted back dude your shouting for a pug, whats wrong your FC not experienced enough?

Was also looking to do a normal garuda run and got told by a tank in df before fight he was bailing because I was SMN and they are crap dps.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2013 2:23pm by ShadowofaDoubt
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