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Marau vs. Glad, is there even a debate? Marau 100%Follow

#1 Sep 05 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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So I wanted to bring this to the forums because I am not high enough to unlock Paladin or Warrior. However, from what I have experienced for the first 3 dungeons, Marauder outshines Gladiator by a long shot. I've been tanking on both classes and the most glaring problem with Gladiator, is that I run out of MP way too often to use Flash. Using Riot Blade to replenish MP takes away from my consistent ability to hold aggro. I understand Flash shouldn't be used liberally, but even if I chose to save it, I still sometimes have issues with MP. I mean, outside of savage blade, that's about all I have to work with. Both Marauder and Gladiator get an aoe attack so that is not debatable. However, on Marauder, it seems I can spam cast any ability I want since none of them are tied to a limited MP pool. Added, as Marauder, I am contributing much more dps to the party than I could ever hope for on Gladiator.

As I look at the upcoming skills for both classes, it seems Paladin focuses on mitigation, while marauder focuses on increased att and self healing. I have yet to see how well the self healing skills contribute to being worth using, yet I can't seem to identify a valid reason why one would not go marauder for tanking, aside from the aesthetic of sword/board vs. great axe (which by the way, has more interesting animations than sword/board...and by a long shot at that).

So my question is, from experienced players of Paladin and Warrior...what do you think of them respectively? I know each can hold there own, but does it really boil down to "I like one aspect over the other?" or do you think endgame encounters will be situated to suiting one style over the other? If that's the case, it doesn't matter in the long run because you will be benched as one class or the other depending on the dungeon/raid/whatever they add later instance. I'm curious because I am still trying to decide which one of these tanks I should take into endgame.
#2BrokenFox, Posted: Sep 05 2013 at 12:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Different classes with different purposes.
#3 Sep 05 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lower levels and Mar kicks the crap of out Gld, no one can argue that really.

But at the end the Pld I think has a slight edge over the War since the higher mitigation, fighting really hard hitting bosses at endgame you need the added mitigation as much as you can.

But to be honest, with the War higher HP pool and self healing they are so close that it really does boil down to play style.

I am War all the way because I have never liked shield tanking. If you have ever played WOW think of the War as the Death Knight, which is the tanking style that fits me perfectly :)
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#4 Sep 05 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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I'm only level 30, but I don't think the first three dungeons is enough of a comparison to make this decision on.

They are both good, but just different.

MRD does more damage and therefore on easier content (ie: first three dungeons) it will outshine the PLD.

PLD takes less damage and may be more useful in harder content (ie: end-game).

Again, I'm not at end-game yet but I'm sure others here can tell you more about that.
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#5 Sep 05 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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One thing that comes to mind, is that gladiator can use a shield, wich has stats and def on it, and marauder only has an ax. I will try tanking as marauder but for now i am a shield and sword guy.
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#6 Sep 05 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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I was under the impression that Paladin was more a single target boss fight kind of tank, while warrior was more of an aoe style off tank.

Could be wrong.

Who cares about non job classes vs other non job classes..
#7 Sep 05 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Warrior outshined paladin for just about every battle in version 1, except for the hardest battles, when pld was equal or slightly ahead. It is such a slight difference at that point though. Early in ARR, I have very much enjoyed tanking on gladiator, and the only time I have lost hate is when DPS starts attacking other mobs. I have also heard in my linkshell about many bad mrd tanks.

So, really, I think player skill is the dominant answer.

That and party quality.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 11:44am by Thayos
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#8 Sep 05 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it's to early to tell since the real hard **** isnt out however if I had to pick, I would say PLD. From a healer's perspective If I'm not mistaken, isn't easier for a healer to keep a PLD alive over a WAR?

Also heres a more detailed video on the matter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YzzZ99AoMU
#9 Sep 05 2013 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've seen some amazing WAR tanks though. Did a Brayflox run with a WAR tank and he was right on it - never took a hit from breath, kept the dragon off its green pools, and we won with no death and without my (WHM) even having to pop an ether. Really, a player who pays attention and does a good job is often more relevant than stats and such. That doesn't mean a WHM is going to make a good tank, but MRD/WAR and GLA/PLD are both capable of tanking, at least up through the content that I'm at so far.
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#10 Sep 05 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm a healer and I've suffered through a lot of random tanks. My experience is that the better players have been playing PLD, and a PLD that is a bad tank is a little easier to keep up. MRD takes a lot of dmg and so the healer is healing a lot. With a GLD I find I can nuke a lot more.
#11 Sep 05 2013 at 12:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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I still have to see some more L.50 team action, but as I was leveling, I never had a MP issue with GLDs and they were easy to keep healed. Meanwhile with a few MRDs, there were times that I had to spam Cure2 just to keep them alive from the trash encounters. While we were going through Garuda normal mode, we had a Paladin friend tank it for us. My MP never dropped below 90% and the tank was barely took any damage. Meanwhile the other 3 Garuda runs with non-Paladin tanks were a nightmare.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 2:58pm by rubina
#12 Sep 05 2013 at 1:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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VitaminD2112 wrote:
From a healer's perspective If I'm not mistaken, isn't easier for a healer to keep a PLD alive over a WAR?


Depends on the PLD and depends on the WAR. It's hard to tell at this point, as the game's been out less than 2 weeks. Most of us - myself included - are still noobs here. My guess would be that PLD ends up being a better tank overall just based on FFXI and how those two jobs were decked out. Yet, in this game, WAR is not the amazing-ungodly-damage-dealer it was in FFXI, at least thus far.
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#13 Sep 05 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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rubina wrote:
I still have to see some more L.50 team action, but as I was leveling, I never had a MP issue with GLDs and they were easy to keep healed. Meanwhile with a few MRDs, there were times that I had to spam Cure2 just to keep them alive from the trash encounters. While we were going through Garuda normal mode, we had a Paladin friend tank it for us. My MP never dropped below 90% and the tank was barely took any damage. Meanwhile the other 3 Garuda runs with non-Paladin tanks were a nightmare.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 2:58pm by rubina


I've had the same experience with a FC PLD... when he tanks for us I barely have to heal at all. A nice blessing.
#14 Sep 05 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Trick is to take cross-class damage abilities on Gladiator. Raging Strikes and whatnot. Stack up and you'll easily drop as much damage early in the game while being tougher to kill.

The only thing a MRD should be beating you on is AoE damage, but then they're probably doing their AoE to keep hate on a group of mobs... which you do better with Flash.
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#15 Sep 05 2013 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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algorithm0r wrote:
I've had the same experience with a FC PLD... when he tanks for us I barely have to heal at all. A nice blessing.


Regardless of the tank, I usually drop a StoneSkin and a Regen on them before they pull. If it's a long encounter with trash, I usually find enough time with a Paladin to refresh both and toss in a few DoTs. If it's not a PLD, I barely have time to toss in a Regen during the middle of combat.
#16 Sep 05 2013 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Strangerous wrote:
I was under the impression that Paladin was more a single target boss fight kind of tank, while warrior was more of an aoe style off tank.


That's how it has been playing out in most of the 8 man groups I have been in (pal on the main hard hitting boss, war off-tanking the gigantic adds). but you should hear the arguments when there are two paladins in the same battle. They hate to be called "the other tank" Smiley: lol
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#17 Sep 05 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I have preferred my MRD over the GLD up to level 26 anyway. I picked up Flash from GLD and defensive cooldowns from PUG and LNC. With Overpower / Flash initial agro is no problem and so long as the DPS are hitting the same target it is all too easy to maintain agro. Even when DPS get over zealous it is easy to keep focus on myself. With Blood Bath and Inner Healing as well as Keen Flurry, Feather Foot, and my own buff I do very well on managing my DMG intake. I know it will change once I switch over to WAR but I will make sure to wait until the benefits equal out over all my cross-class skills.
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#18 Sep 05 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I would think in an 8 man, you'd want your PLD to tank the boss, and the WAR to pick up the groups of adds. Just my perspective, but that is how it seems to be built into the game. Not impossible to do the opposite or have 2 PLD or 2 WARs... just saying if you are going for the variety pack, you'd probably run with both and their skills fit that set up better.

From tanking the first three dungeons, I am a sad GLA player. I can't seem to manage groups of mobs as well as I can on MRD. I always lose one or I end up losing a late add and have a **** of a time getting it back. MRD, I lost 1 mob last night in 3 runs to healer aggro and that was a late add. It also helps that as a MRD, you get access to Flash, but a GLA does not have overpower. So I can Overpower the group and Flash if I wish. GLA I can flash and rotate through the mob set with savage blade. Otherwise I am running around herding cats...erm, mobs.

The downside is that the MRD takes a huge spike hit on the alpha strike when first engaging the group of trash mobs. Having all three things hit you almost at the same time drops my MRD hp pretty harshly. GLA is much better in this respect. I have taken to popping Foresight right before I Tomahawk or right after as the mobs are coming. Also pop Convalescence to help the healer if I really drop (like with Mantis mobs in Hala), but i keep that for bloodbath in case the healer can't keep up.

I'll probably end up taking WAR next rather than PLD because the AoE choices right now for GLA are just not there. I might just solo my GLA with a healer chicken companion to open PLD rather than dungeon crawl. By then, I should have the gear from MRD runs to wear, so it'll work out...I hope.
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#19 Sep 05 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Refews wrote:

The downside is that the MRD takes a huge spike hit on the alpha strike when first engaging the group of trash mobs. Having all three things hit you almost at the same time drops my MRD hp pretty harshly. GLA is much better in this respect. I have taken to popping Foresight right before I Tomahawk or right after as the mobs are coming. Also pop Convalescence to help the healer if I really drop (like with Mantis mobs in Hala), but i keep that for bloodbath in case the healer can't keep up.


So what you are saying is that paladin is often running around going "Hit me! I can take it" and only one guy listens, while Warrior is a little like the scene in Braveheart where he turns around and flips his kilt and gets shot in the **** with an arrow after everyone fires.
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#20 Sep 05 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Speaking as a level 50 White Mage I have to say that I prefer Paladin tanking over Warrior. Paladins have Shield Oath, which decreases the damage they take, decreases the damage they deal, and increases their enmity. Warriors however only receive a buff that adds more HP and increases enmity for them. It becomes quickly apparent in the higher level dungeons which one is more squishy, and which one you have to spam more heals on.

Now that's not to say Warriors are not good at what they do, by all means, from all of the Warriors I have seen, keeping threat/enmity is something they excel at heavily, and from personal experience, do so with far more ease over a Paladin. Healing aggro is a bit of a pain in this game, and being interrupted by an ability of an enemy right when your heal is about to cast, can mean life or death.

In the earlier levels though, yes, Marauder outshines Gladiator by quite a bit. However given a choice of which one I prefer to heal, I would take the Paladin over the Warrior. Just my 2 cents though.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 12:26pm by Joobishwun
#21 Sep 05 2013 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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I have played both a GLA and MRD and to be honest with you, I think that GLA is the better tank at holding agro and has better mitigation. As for you running out of MP using flash, I recommend trying to only use Flash no more than 3 times per battle... Try this rotation Shield Lob > Flash > Fast Blade (FB) > Savage Blade (SB) > FLash > FB > SB > Rage of Halone (RH) > FB > SB > RH > ect... You should only have to use flash one more time, if you use it again at all bcause at this point you should have enough hate from everything (as long as the DPS aren't trying to directly attack targets that you are not focusing on) and if anything pops off you onto the healer all you should have to do is cast Provoke then do your FB > SB > RH combo once before goinback to your original target. I also recomend once you and the DPS burn the target down to around 5% health, jumping to another target to build hate on it while the DPS finish burning down the first target. There are exceptions to this rotation (such as using your cooldowns for bosses and such) but this one works wonders for me.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 3:29pm by princessary
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#22 Sep 05 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Higher levels, you kinda want both...

Like, There's a spot for each tank in many fights and dungeons. Pld main tank, with War off tank for adds, as they have great hate generation in a pinch and AOE moves to boot.

Pld's best attribute at endgame though: 1 stun and 1 silence. This is good for 2 reason, one is off the GCD and both build different resistances. For instance, in the Chimera fight for Relic Weapon, there are 2 moves that need to be interrupted. Pld can silence one and stun the other.
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#23 Sep 05 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Enmity vs. Provoke: Not the Same Thing

The Gladiator level 22 ability, Provoke causes some confusion. This ability is available to both the GLA/PAL and MRD/WAR and reads, “Gesture Threateningly, increasing enmity in target.” This sure sounds like it’s an enmity builder, but it isn’t.

Think of party enmity as a line, with each party member standing in the spot of the line corresponding to their current enmity level. Provoke is your “cut to the front of the line” ability. It doesn’t so much generate enmity as it does give you +1 over whomever has the most enmity. This is great if you have fallen way behind in enmity or if you need to “snap aggro” something back to you.

Provoke is wasted on targets for which you already have enmity. If you are already in the front of the line, all you did was +1 yourself and start a 40-second cooldown on the Provoke ability.


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#24 Sep 05 2013 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Not sure what the OP is doing, but I can count the number of times i ran low (not out) of MP on GLD/PLD on two fingers. And yes I was keeping hate on me. One tip is to use Riot Blade towards the end of an encounter, when you have hate firmly on you.

TBH i haven't used Riot Blade since like level 20. The person who said you only need 3 flashes is pretty much right.

Personally i'm leveling PLD because I like having heavy mitigation and stun/silence. I like my tank to have tools to survive and to control opponents. MRD is only 20 and I haven't looked to see if it has any CC type abilities down the line.

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#25 Sep 05 2013 at 2:01 PM Rating: Default
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WO any evidence to support my claim its my observation that PLD's struggle at tanking in the DF fights, namely group aggro control.
#26 Sep 05 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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bad PLDs. its not that difficult.
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#27 Sep 05 2013 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Having made it as a level 39 WHM, I will say it's much less stressful healing a Paladin than a Warrior on account of their superior survivability. However, a Warrior is much better at keeping Adds from chowing down on the back-line. The differences are barely noticeable in the hands of a capable player. Either job works fine with me.
#28 Sep 05 2013 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Another benefit I've found for using PLD/GLA (at least in the early game) is that your healer can go more offensive than if using a Blood Tank. When I run dungeons on my CNJ and a PLD/GLA is tanking, I usually don't need the extra MND to keep up with healing, so I pop Cleric Stance and throw in more nukes. However using a blood tank, I can't keep up as well without the extra potency on the healing spells so the Nuke option is more limited.

In the end, I don't think it does anything more than keep balance between the two (MRD having more DPS, but needing more HPS; & GLA needing less HPS and the DPS difference being made up by the healer).

I haven't unlocked the 8 man dungeons yet, but I can see benefit in the practice of MT being PLD and using WAR as the secondary tank to handle groups of adds when necessary.

In the end, I think the abilities of your party will dictate which tank performs better in any given encounter.
#29 Sep 05 2013 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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Well there was the theory that a WHM compliments a WAR and the SCH compliments the PLD in terms of healer/tank relationship. Would make sense given each role's strengths and weaknesses.

When I jump on my WHM, I like healing WARs much better because of the spike hp drops make it more exciting to keep the WAR up. PLD/GLA gets boring and I tend to overheal more with them. And getting a crit heal on a WAR seems much more satisfying.

edit: hit post too soon.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 4:41pm by Refews
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#30 Sep 05 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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Joobishwun wrote:
Speaking as a level 50 White Mage I have to say that I prefer Paladin tanking over Warrior. Paladins have Shield Oath, which decreases the damage they take, decreases the damage they deal, and increases their enmity. Warriors however only receive a buff that adds more HP and increases enmity for them. It becomes quickly apparent in the higher level dungeons which one is more squishy, and which one you have to spam more heals on.

Now that's not to say Warriors are not good at what they do, by all means, from all of the Warriors I have seen, keeping threat/enmity is something they excel at heavily, and from personal experience, do so with far more ease over a Paladin. Healing aggro is a bit of a pain in this game, and being interrupted by an ability of an enemy right when your heal is about to cast, can mean life or death.

In the earlier levels though, yes, Marauder outshines Gladiator by quite a bit. However given a choice of which one I prefer to heal, I would take the Paladin over the Warrior. Just my 2 cents though.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 12:26pm by Joobishwun


And also increases healing on the WAR by up to 15%. And every healer I've ever met *really* loves 15% stronger heals.

I have yet to find something I can't tank on my WAR. Yes, a PLD may take less damage, but I heal myself for a crap ton more, and I also have over 5k hp naturally.
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#31 Sep 05 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
From a DPS perspective we prefer tanks that don't run around like headless chickens and mark targets. Honestly, I think it really depends on the player. I've had great and horrible tanks of both flavors, once both in the same run. Doing CB our first GLD tank was horrible. No Shield Lob, just ran right at the mobs. No Flash, tried attacking everything to keep hate. He and the CNJ DC'd right before the slime fight. The ACH and I, figuring the run was a bust, decided to try and two man the slimes. We actually pulled it off just as DF replaced our missing members. This time, we got a MDR tank and he rocked socks. During the final boss fight our CNJ was in the back making a sandwich because the MDR was really good at what he did.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 2:00pm by SkinwalkerAsura
#32 Sep 05 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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From healing as mostly 50SCH and a little as 50Whm I really don't care which one I get. I think what matters the most is the players and quite franklu I think the smoothest 8-man events I've done have had one of each.
#33 Sep 05 2013 at 3:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Refews wrote:

From tanking the first three dungeons, I am a sad GLA player. I can't seem to manage groups of mobs as well as I can on MRD. I always lose one or I end up losing a late add and have a **** of a time getting it back. MRD, I lost 1 mob last night in 3 runs to healer aggro and that was a late add. It also helps that as a MRD, you get access to Flash, but a GLA does not have overpower. So I can Overpower the group and Flash if I wish. GLA I can flash and rotate through the mob set with savage blade. Otherwise I am running around herding cats...erm, mobs.

The downside is that the MRD takes a huge spike hit on the alpha strike when first engaging the group of trash mobs. Having all three things hit you almost at the same time drops my MRD hp pretty harshly. GLA is much better in this respect. I have taken to popping Foresight right before I Tomahawk or right after as the mobs are coming. Also pop Convalescence to help the healer if I really drop (like with Mantis mobs in Hala), but i keep that for bloodbath in case the healer can't keep up.

I'll probably end up taking WAR next rather than PLD because the AoE choices right now for GLA are just not there. I might just solo my GLA with a healer chicken companion to open PLD rather than dungeon crawl. By then, I should have the gear from MRD runs to wear, so it'll work out...I hope.


Flash IMO is about absolutely useless on WAR, I just can't tell a difference with or without it. I keep it there just in case but I never use it anymore I never have any problems.

Macros are our friend with WAR, I have macros set up for almost everything now. I macro in Mercy Strike on all of my main moves, a target macro on my Tomahawk so I can label who I am targeting for the lazy DPS people who don't pay attention. I even macro in Foresight and Convalescence on my Overpower for the dungeon pulls. I figure if I am pulling a ton I will need the extra defense and healing anyway. Of course I have another without the macro for boss fights in case I need the extra heals at a particular time, then just swap them out for when I get to the boss.

I use the Logitech G13 and love it, I just have the repeat option on my macro keybinds to make it easy instead of a bunch of button mashing to get it done :)
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#34 Sep 05 2013 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Refews wrote:
Well there was the theory that a WHM compliments a WAR and the SCH compliments the PLD in terms of healer/tank relationship. Would make sense given each role's strengths and weaknesses.

When I jump on my WHM, I like healing WARs much better because of the spike hp drops make it more exciting to keep the WAR up. PLD/GLA gets boring and I tend to overheal more with them. And getting a crit heal on a WAR seems much more satisfying.

edit: hit post too soon.

Edited, Sep 5th 2013 4:41pm by Refews



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#35 Sep 05 2013 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Techsupport wrote:
Flash IMO is about absolutely useless on WAR, I just can't tell a difference with or without it. I keep it there just in case but I never use it anymore I never have any problems.


Flash is useful for many reasons:

1. It's a pbaoe aggro generator that doesn't have the long wind-up time of Overpower.
2. It's something to do after Berserk wears off, allowing you to maximize hate gain even while pacified.
3. It's a way to build hate on targets that are CC'ed that doesn't involve breaking the CC.
4. It's a means of pooling TP without losing hate gen. Which also means you're utilizing your MP pool instead of letting it just sit there and be pretty. No wasted resources in other words.
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#36 Sep 05 2013 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
Techsupport wrote:
Flash IMO is about absolutely useless on WAR, I just can't tell a difference with or without it. I keep it there just in case but I never use it anymore I never have any problems.


Flash is useful for many reasons:

1. It's a pbaoe aggro generator that doesn't have the long wind-up time of Overpower.
2. It's something to do after Berserk wears off, allowing you to maximize hate gain even while pacified.
3. It's a way to build hate on targets that are CC'ed that doesn't involve breaking the CC.
4. It's a means of pooling TP without losing hate gen. Which also means you're utilizing your MP pool instead of letting it just sit there and be pretty. No wasted resources in other words.


Everything you say makes sense, can't deny that. I just don't see it being a big help but I am only level 29 as I am typing this.
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WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.


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#37 Sep 05 2013 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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Joobishwun wrote:
Speaking as a level 50 White Mage I have to say that I prefer Paladin tanking over Warrior. Paladins have Shield Oath, which decreases the damage they take, decreases the damage they deal, and increases their enmity. Warriors however only receive a buff that adds more HP and increases enmity for them. It becomes quickly apparent in the higher level dungeons which one is more squishy, and which one you have to spam more heals on.


Defiance gives 15% more Hp recovery via spell/actions through Wrath buff, and WAR has more self heal than PLD.

They are roughly the same anyway.
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#38 Sep 05 2013 at 7:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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As others have said, come endgame it is about balance - 1 of each. Just like a SCH & WHM together will almost certainly be more effective than 2 x WHM or 2 x SCH.

PLD on boss with enhanced mitigation (with SCH providing constant throughput on healing + shields), WAR on adds for quick AoE aggro generation + burst self-healing, and boosted damage while not tanking (with WHM for burst healing).

Just like you'll try to mix up DPS roles to maximise range, buffs/debuffs etc.
#39 Sep 05 2013 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
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ive noticed paladin players seem to always know what there doing whereas warriors seem to treat the class like dps..not all but enough to take note of. im always very happy to see a paladin in the group




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#40 Sep 05 2013 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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Techsupport wrote:
Quor wrote:
Techsupport wrote:
Flash IMO is about absolutely useless on WAR, I just can't tell a difference with or without it. I keep it there just in case but I never use it anymore I never have any problems.


Flash is useful for many reasons:

1. It's a pbaoe aggro generator that doesn't have the long wind-up time of Overpower.
2. It's something to do after Berserk wears off, allowing you to maximize hate gain even while pacified.
3. It's a way to build hate on targets that are CC'ed that doesn't involve breaking the CC.
4. It's a means of pooling TP without losing hate gen. Which also means you're utilizing your MP pool instead of letting it just sit there and be pretty. No wasted resources in other words.


Everything you say makes sense, can't deny that. I just don't see it being a big help but I am only level 29 as I am typing this.


Just wait til ya hit Sunken Temple. Then it'll allll become clear.

But seriously, **** bees.
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#41 Sep 05 2013 at 11:27 PM Rating: Good
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If your a GLD and spamming Flash thinking that's how your problem gonna be solved, then MRD will fit your playstyle and that's not a bad thing. Being a GLD/PLD after 38 lvls the handful a times I ran out a MP is because I panicked I realized my mistake and never happens again.
GLD/PLD playstyle is mitigation plain and simple just know your skills, Flash honestly I only love it for its blind effect I don't really use it for the increased hate. Trust me start a boss fight and for kicks pop Rampart>SL>Flash>Savage Blade combo/RoH n your set and to top it off from just that u have reduced DMG not including block! Increased dodge and a good enmity boost.
But in the end its about your playstyle plain and simple and you can cycle through mobs I can SB combo my main target then RoH another followed by a Flash, if that makes any sense but it works.
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#42 Sep 06 2013 at 12:03 AM Rating: Excellent
In my opinion two words sum it up: Hallowed Ground. Paladin, with it's 10 seconds of pretty much invulnerability makes it an easy choice in my book. Not to mention PLD benefits defensively from STR and DEX better then a WAR, since a WAR can only parry, whilst a PLD can also block. Remember that STR and DEX effect damage blocked/parried and block/parry rate respectively. Considering PLD and WAR can wear the same gear, all the stats point to PLD being way tankier then a WAR could ever hope to be. However, it does seem to me that SE is leaning more towards a main tank/off tank combo, so I forsee having both in a PT...PLD tanking the mega boss, and a WAR doing add duty.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:04am by StateAlchemist
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#43 Sep 06 2013 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
In my opinion two words sum it up: Hallowed Ground. Paladin, with it's 10 seconds of pretty much invulnerability makes it an easy choice in my book. Not to mention PLD benefits defensively from STR and DEX better then a WAR, since a WAR can only parry, whilst a PLD can also block. Remember that STR and DEX effect damage blocked/parried and block/parry rate respectively. Considering PLD and WAR can wear the same gear, all the stats point to PLD being way tankier then a WAR could ever hope to be. However, it does seem to me that SE is leaning more towards a main tank/off tank combo, so I forsee having both in a PT...PLD tanking the mega boss, and a WAR doing add duty.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:04am by StateAlchemist


That's usually what happens, yeah.

But my experience has been I tank about as well as a PLD, largely on account of my 1-1.5k more hp and ability to self-heal reliably for 1-2k every 15s.
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#44 Sep 06 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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S3ntin3L wrote:
If your a GLD and spamming Flash thinking that's how your problem gonna be solved, then MRD will fit your playstyle and that's not a bad thing. Being a GLD/PLD after 38 lvls the handful a times I ran out a MP is because I panicked I realized my mistake and never happens again.
GLD/PLD playstyle is mitigation plain and simple just know your skills, Flash honestly I only love it for its blind effect I don't really use it for the increased hate. Trust me start a boss fight and for kicks pop Rampart>SL>Flash>Savage Blade combo/RoH n your set and to top it off from just that u have reduced DMG not including block! Increased dodge and a good enmity boost.
But in the end its about your playstyle plain and simple and you can cycle through mobs I can SB combo my main target then RoH another followed by a Flash, if that makes any sense but it works.


I fully agree with you, but the issue is not boss fights; the issue is trash groups with no AoE early on. Makes it a slog to get through those first 5 dungeons or so. I have tried the whole Lob to pull, flash group, FB>SB first marked target, flash group. I almost always end up losing one mob to healer aggro. I will give the whole FB>SB cycle through the group thing a shot, but it tends to confuse the mouthbreathers who pay attention and see me hitting target 2 or 3 and think, OK SWITCH! On single targets, I haven't lost hate.

Marauder is more, Tomahawk pull, OP, HS>SS, OP... usually all I need to hold the group. Even with spike healing from the CNJ. It is way easier holding group hate on 3+ mobs with MRD given the AoE single ability rather than having to cycle through a SB on each target with GLA, especially given the GCD.

All said, I only have a small experience window for up to Hala, so my opinion on the matter is limited, I understand that. But given these are the dungeons in which you start learning stuff... there are differences that shouldn't be handwaved away.

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#45 Sep 06 2013 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
In my opinion two words sum it up: Hallowed Ground. Paladin, with it's 10 seconds of pretty much invulnerability makes it an easy choice in my book. Not to mention PLD benefits defensively from STR and DEX better then a WAR, since a WAR can only parry, whilst a PLD can also block. Remember that STR and DEX effect damage blocked/parried and block/parry rate respectively. Considering PLD and WAR can wear the same gear, all the stats point to PLD being way tankier then a WAR could ever hope to be. However, it does seem to me that SE is leaning more towards a main tank/off tank combo, so I forsee having both in a PT...PLD tanking the mega boss, and a WAR doing add duty.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 2:04am by StateAlchemist


That's usually what happens, yeah.

But my experience has been I tank about as well as a PLD, largely on account of my 1-1.5k more hp and ability to self-heal reliably for 1-2k every 15s.


I haven't gone through all of my warrior abilities yet, however, I have one MRD ability that gives me ~20% damage reduction, 4 GLD abilities that give between 10-40% damage reduction, Balwurk, Pacification, Hallowed Ground, and a Shield.

With that being said, I am still learning ability order, and timing (and I really need to see about stoneskin in my rotation, just to see how it manages).

But, with all of that considered, I can keep my damage reduction to ~20% constantly on top of my higher block rate, this means that I am effectively, on ability alone (not going into traits) reducing the effective damage by ~25-30%. Resulting in healers using less MP, while having the equivalent effective HP pool of a War (If a WAR has 5k HP, and I have 4k, that would effectively be a 20% difference yes?).

But, yes, I will deal less damage, and with one AoE hate move, and one AoE damage move (Sword of Scion I believe, and the damage is pathetic), the net result at end-game is really more about style than anything else. A WAR is more demanding of the Healer, which means the healer is dealing less damage. The War compensates for the difference in damage. With Pld, the healer heals less, therefore can do more damage. It's a balancing act, and very much a matter of skill of players, and gear (yeah, I have to admit gear plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in how people can even perform their jobs).

With that being said, one thing to understand (and this is very important at lower levels when playing GLD). In the Beginning, you are pulling with Shield lob, wait for the mobs to collect, then Flash. You then use your MP weaponskill on the mob you are fighting, and flash after each rotation. This will keep the healer from pulling hate. Once the mob is down to 10-20% health, switch to the next mob. You can now focus on your emnity combo, and flash after every 2 (If there are 3 mobs). Again, when that mob gets down to 10-20%, switch to the last mob. This time, just use your combo until it's dead.

With this strat, I have never lost hate in any of the dungeons. The only place this doesn't work is when dealing with clams (just attack the clams and let the dd's kill the lights), and the Tam Tara? room where the mobs constantly spawn in waves. Flash when they collect, keep trying to use your MP weaponskill, and try to keep the mobs together for the DDs so they can hit them all. Lots of running, and really annoying, War will always be better there IMHO. With that last statement said, I honestly do not believe that Pld is "Better" than war. It's just more fun to me to play Pld. The ability to "Outsmart" a mob is fun. And Pld really is designed to do that. Pacification, Stun (never use in Party play unless you know it's safe, or you can mess up a stun rotation, or make it immune too early), Blind, and of course everybody loves to dodge:).
#46 Sep 06 2013 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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But, yes, I will deal less damage, and with one AoE hate move, and one AoE damage move (Sword of Scion I believe, and the damage is pathetic)


Circle of Scorn, and it's a 250 Potency damage AoE attack, so it's not bad at all, especially with that same strength skill on a much longer timer for Dragoon's 50 skill.

Only difference is that it's loaded over 30 seconds. Thus you are seeing it as a low damage skill. It's very good when used towards the beginning of an engagement and maintained. (Though, most runs these days are skipping over the small mobs.)
#47 Sep 06 2013 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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Refews wrote:
I fully agree with you, but the issue is not boss fights; the issue is trash groups with no AoE early on. Makes it a slog to get through those first 5 dungeons or so. I have tried the whole Lob to pull, flash group, FB>SB first marked target, flash group. I almost always end up losing one mob to healer aggro.

That is because the healer is jumping the gun and healing before you need it. They just need to wait until you flash before starting to cast thier heals otherwise they will pull off you. I hardly ever lose hate to a healer and when I do I have Provoke to pull it back to me and one FB > SB combo is all it take before I can go back to what I was fighting.

Refews wrote:
I will give the whole FB>SB cycle through the group thing a shot, but it tends to confuse the mouthbreathers who pay attention and see me hitting target 2 or 3 and think, OK SWITCH! On single targets, I haven't lost hate.

Please don't do that, I tried that starting off, it doesn't work because the DPS will grab hate from the previous mob every time.

Edited, Sep 6th 2013 10:58am by princessary
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#48 Sep 06 2013 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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As a healer I like to wait until all of the targets are red before lobbing that first cure. I also set a mental target of when I'll chuck cures during the fight to avoid overcuring (e.g. cure when the tank dips under 300 in the level 15 dungeons, etc.) This may mean that the first cure doesn't max out the tank's HP, but as long as the tank doesn't die, you can always top em off after the fight is done.

... are there any HP dependent abilities on GLD or MAR?
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#49 Sep 06 2013 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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Mercy Strike heals 20% of max Hp so yea. Though you probably wont use it in boss fight unless there's add.

MRD/WAR does have the 20% max HP temporary buff and heal for the same amount.

Defiance raise 25% max HP too.

MRD/WAR has quite a bit of HP dependent abilities and unlike GLD/PLD it's not capped (Spirit Withins).
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